X-Men #155 Spoiler

The Black Guardian wrote:
 > teepee wrote:
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  > > Why are Scott and Hank worried about Cassandra Nova's cell being breached?
  > > Doesn't Austin realise that Cassandra/Ernst has been wandering around the
  > > academy and even taking classes there for months. Or is it just her old body
  > > they're worried about?

 > Austen realizes this, but Scott and Hank don't. I am, however, surprised that
 > it's
 > taken Scott and Hank this long to realize this... ah well... more of Morrison's
 > lax
 > logic to deal with.

Why is it Morrison's lax logic if Austen is writing the book?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: X-Men #155 Spoiler 

"The Black Guardian" <blakgard DeleteThis @aol.coma.org> wrote in message
news:20040408125438.27243.00000012@mb-m27.aol.com...
 > teepee wrote:
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  > > Why are Scott and Hank worried about Cassandra Nova's cell being
breached?
  > > Doesn't Austin realise that Cassandra/Ernst has been wandering around
the
  > > academy and even taking classes there for months. Or is it just her old
body
  > > they're worried about?
 >
 > Austen realizes this, but Scott and Hank don't. I am, however, surprised
that it's
 > taken Scott and Hank this long to realize this... ah well... more of
Morrison's lax
 > logic to deal with.

What's lax about it? We know from comments raised that Ernst was Cassandra
in her new body. What's illogical is that Hank and Scott wouldn't be aware
of this (It never came up in conversation in Morrisons's run), and that's on
Austen watch.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: X-Men #155 Spoiler 

On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:47:56 +0100, "teepee" <no-email.RemoveThis@hotmail.com>
wrote:

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 >Why are Scott and Hank worried about Cassandra Nova's cell being breached?
 >Doesn't Austin realise that Cassandra/Ernst has been wandering around the
 >academy and even taking classes there for months. Or is it just her old body
 >they're worried about?
 >

I think there are bigger problems with this issue than that...austen
picks up right where morrison left off but i don't think he actually
read morrison's final issue because there are several things that
don't make sense here. Yet another example of why I think austen
should be banned from writing period...I think he enjoys screwing up
characters...he has to...no one can be that bad...the only thing I've
read be him that I liked is his Exiles stuff and most of those
characters haven't been arounds long enough for people to notice if
their out of character...if that makes any sense<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: X-Men #155 Spoiler 

In message <20040408125438.27243.00000012.DeleteThis@mb-m27.aol.com>, The Black
Guardian <blakgard.DeleteThis@aol.coma.org> writes
 >
 >Austen realizes this,

I'm not altogether convinced he does.

In fairness, the assistant editor correctly summarises the plot on the
letters page, so you would THINK the editors would have corrected him if
this was indeed a key plot point.

--
Paul O'Brien

THE X-AXIS - <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.thexaxis.com" target="_blank">http://www.thexaxis.com</a>
ARTICLE 10 - <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ninthart.com" target="_blank">http://www.ninthart.com</a>
LIVEJOURNAL - <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.livejournal.com/~paulobrien" target="_blank">http://www.livejournal.com/~paulobrien</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: X-Men #155 Spoiler 

Karl Hiller wrote:
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   >>> Why are Scott and Hank worried about Cassandra Nova's cell being
   >>> breached? Doesn't Austin realise that Cassandra/Ernst has been
   >>> wandering around the academy and even taking classes there for
   >>> months. Or is it just her old body they're worried about?
  >>
  >> Austen realizes this, but Scott and Hank don't. I am, however, surprised
  >> that it's taken Scott and Hank this long to realize this... ah well... more
of
  >> Morrison's lax logic to deal with.
 >
 > Why is it Morrison's lax logic if Austen is writing the book?

Because it's dealing with what Morrison wrote that was a bit lax in logic.
Cassandra's consciousness was supposedly trapped within Stuff's body. I
would have thought that the X-Men would have watched this body like a
hawk (both physically and mentally). How'd she get out and why has it taken
this long to figure it out?
--
-=[ The BlakGard ]=-
"Somewhere there's danger;
somewhere there's injustice,
and somewhere else the tea is getting cold!"<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: X-Men #155 Spoiler 

"The Black Guardian" <blakgard DeleteThis @aol.coma.org> wrote in message
news:20040408182629.13973.00000032@mb-m05.aol.com...
 > Karl Hiller wrote:
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   > >>> Why are Scott and Hank worried about Cassandra Nova's cell being
   > >>> breached? Doesn't Austin realise that Cassandra/Ernst has been
   > >>> wandering around the academy and even taking classes there for
   > >>> months. Or is it just her old body they're worried about?
   > >>
   > >> Austen realizes this, but Scott and Hank don't. I am, however, surprised
   > >> that it's taken Scott and Hank this long to realize this... ah well...
more
 > of
   > >> Morrison's lax logic to deal with.
  > >
  > > Why is it Morrison's lax logic if Austen is writing the book?
 >
 > Because it's dealing with what Morrison wrote that was a bit lax in logic.
 > Cassandra's consciousness was supposedly trapped within Stuff's body. I
 > would have thought that the X-Men would have watched this body like a
 > hawk (both physically and mentally). How'd she get out and why has it taken
 > this long to figure it out?
 >
That's not lax logic, that's an unadressed continuity issue. And, yippee, now
we have Austen to fill it in and fuck it up (oh, Nightcrawler doesn't have a
father, I've got an idea!)

D.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: X-Men #155 Spoiler 

Donnacha DeLong wrote:
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   >>>>> Why are Scott and Hank worried about Cassandra Nova's cell being
   >>>>> breached? Doesn't Austin realise that Cassandra/Ernst has been
   >>>>> wandering around the academy and even taking classes there for
   >>>>> months. Or is it just her old body they're worried about?
   >>>>
   >>>> Austen realizes this, but Scott and Hank don't. I am, however, surprised
   >>>> that it's taken Scott and Hank this long to realize this... ah well...
   >>>> more of Morrison's lax logic to deal with.
   >>>
   >>> Why is it Morrison's lax logic if Austen is writing the book?
  >>
  >> Because it's dealing with what Morrison wrote that was a bit lax in logic.
  >> Cassandra's consciousness was supposedly trapped within Stuff's body. I
  >> would have thought that the X-Men would have watched this body like a
  >> hawk (both physically and mentally). How'd she get out and why has it taken
  >> this long to figure it out?
 >
 > That's not lax logic, that's an unadressed continuity issue.

In my opinion, it becomes lax logic when we're expected to believe that these
trained paramilitary types (ie, superheroes) let someone escape from their
prison without realizing it for months and months... especially when this new
student looks amazingly like the prisoner.
--
-=[ The BlakGard ]=-
"Somewhere there's danger;
somewhere there's injustice,
and somewhere else the tea is getting cold!"<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: X-Men #155 Spoiler 

"The Black Guardian" <blakgard.TakeThisOut@aol.coma.org> wrote
..
 > Cassandra's consciousness was supposedly trapped within Stuff's body. I
 > would have thought that the X-Men would have watched this body like a
 > hawk (both physically and mentally). How'd she get out and why has it
taken
 > this long to figure it out?

Who said she got out? If she's in Stuff's body, it can take on any form.
Presumably as Ernst she's still semi-idiotic but her education has allowed
her to make some progress in controlling that body to create a facsimile of
her old form. By the time of 'Here Comes Tomorrow' I figured she'd more or
less recovered all her facilities but was still inside Stuff. I don't see a
flaw in Morrison's writing here.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: X-Men #155 Spoiler 

teepee wrote:
  >> Cassandra's consciousness was supposedly trapped within Stuff's body. I
  >> would have thought that the X-Men would have watched this body like a
  >> hawk (both physically and mentally). How'd she get out and why has it
  >> taken this long to figure it out?
 >
 > Who said she got out? If she's in Stuff's body...

then why didn't someone notice that there was either no body in Stuff's cell
or Cassie wasn't in the body?

 > Presumably as Ernst she's still semi-idiotic but her education has allowed
 > her to make some progress in controlling that body to create a facsimile of
 > her old form.

Which is why I said, "Both physically and mentally."
--
-=[ The BlakGard ]=-
"Somewhere there's danger;
somewhere there's injustice,
and somewhere else the tea is getting cold!"<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: X-Men #155 Spoiler 

"Brian Doyle" <No_spam.TakeThisOut@freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
news:c543vv$s6v$4@news8.svr.pol.co.uk:

 >
 > "The Black Guardian" <blakgard.TakeThisOut@aol.coma.org> wrote in message
 > news:20040408125438.27243.00000012@mb-m27.aol.com...
  >> teepee wrote:
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   >> > Why are Scott and Hank worried about Cassandra Nova's cell being
 > breached?
   >> > Doesn't Austin realise that Cassandra/Ernst has been wandering
   >> > around
 > the
   >> > academy and even taking classes there for months. Or is it just her
   >> > old
 > body
   >> > they're worried about?
  >>
  >> Austen realizes this, but Scott and Hank don't. I am, however,
  >> surprised
 > that it's
  >> taken Scott and Hank this long to realize this... ah well... more of
 > Morrison's lax
  >> logic to deal with.
 >
 > What's lax about it? We know from comments raised that Ernst was
 > Cassandra in her new body. What's illogical is that Hank and Scott
 > wouldn't be aware of this (It never came up in conversation in
 > Morrisons's run), and that's on Austen watch.

I still disagree that it has been "proven" that Ernst is Cassandra,
because the Martha comment is a questionable source.

But assuming Ernst is Cassandra, there isn't actually proof that
Hank and Beast didn't know. It was made pretty clear that Cassandra
was being re-educated after being trapped inside Stuff's body.
Assuming Ernst always was Cassandra, it isn't entirely unreasonable
that Xavier and company would eventually further her rehabilitation
by introducing her new (and mentally modified) form into a special
class headed by one the most powerful and peaceful of the X-Men.


Morrison left it as a loose end as to whether Ernst was even Cassandra.
If she were, then he left it as a loose end as to why she was acting
freely. Had she escaped, or had she been released under supervision as
a further method of rehabilitation. (Morrison did make clear that the
future Cassandra had taken fully to Xavier's dream, but left unaddressed
by what path she reached her new position.)


If the issue is a real problem, it will most likely be due to Austen.
He's the one that has decided that neither Scott nor Beast suspected
a connection with Ernst, though the letters column implies that a
connection will be a factor in the coming stories. Also, Scott and Beast
have only now become concerned that Cassandra may have escaped in the
destruction, not that she had been free for some time. My guess is that
if he does use Cassandra, he will also forget that she had been under
apparently effective rehabilitation since her initial capture.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: X-Men #155 Spoiler 

"The Black Guardian" <blakgard.DeleteThis@aol.coma.org> wrote in message
news:20040408192719.22595.00000031@mb-m19.aol.com...
 > Donnacha DeLong wrote:
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   > >>>>> Why are Scott and Hank worried about Cassandra Nova's cell being
   > >>>>> breached? Doesn't Austin realise that Cassandra/Ernst has been
   > >>>>> wandering around the academy and even taking classes there for
   > >>>>> months. Or is it just her old body they're worried about?
   > >>>>
   > >>>> Austen realizes this, but Scott and Hank don't. I am, however,
surprised
   > >>>> that it's taken Scott and Hank this long to realize this... ah well...
   > >>>> more of Morrison's lax logic to deal with.
   > >>>
   > >>> Why is it Morrison's lax logic if Austen is writing the book?
   > >>
   > >> Because it's dealing with what Morrison wrote that was a bit lax in
logic.
   > >> Cassandra's consciousness was supposedly trapped within Stuff's body. I
   > >> would have thought that the X-Men would have watched this body like a
   > >> hawk (both physically and mentally). How'd she get out and why has it
taken
   > >> this long to figure it out?
  > >
  > > That's not lax logic, that's an unadressed continuity issue.
 >
 > In my opinion, it becomes lax logic when we're expected to believe that
these
 > trained paramilitary types (ie, superheroes) let someone escape from their
 > prison without realizing it for months and months... especially when this
new
 > student looks amazingly like the prisoner.
 >
But you're assuming a. she escaped and b. they didn't know it was Ernst, both
of which are drawn from Austen, not Morrison.

D.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: X-Men #155 Spoiler 

Donnacha DeLong wrote:
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   >> >> >> >
   >>>>>>> Why are Scott and Hank worried about Cassandra Nova's cell being
   >>>>>>> breached? Doesn't Austin realise that Cassandra/Ernst has been
   >>>>>>> wandering around the academy and even taking classes there for
   >>>>>>> months. Or is it just her old body they're worried about?
   >>>>>>
   >>>>>> Austen realizes this, but Scott and Hank don't. I am, however,
   >>>>>> surprised that it's taken Scott and Hank this long to realize this...
   >>>>>> ah well... more of Morrison's lax logic to deal with.
   >>>>>
   >>>>> Why is it Morrison's lax logic if Austen is writing the book?
   >>>>
   >>>> Because it's dealing with what Morrison wrote that was a bit lax in
   >>>> logic. Cassandra's consciousness was supposedly trapped within
   >>>> Stuff's body. I would have thought that the X-Men would have watched
   >>>> this body like a hawk (both physically and mentally). How'd she get
   >>>> out and why has it taken this long to figure it out?
   >>>
   >>> That's not lax logic, that's an unadressed continuity issue.
  >>
  >> In my opinion, it becomes lax logic when we're expected to believe that
  >> these trained paramilitary types (ie, superheroes) let someone escape
  >> from their prison without realizing it for months and months... especially
  >> when this new student looks amazingly like the prisoner.
 >
 > But you're assuming a. she escaped and b. they didn't know it was Ernst, both
 > of which are drawn from Austen, not Morrison.

The alternative is to accept an even larger stretch of logic -- that they let
her out
and knew she was Ernst yet never referred to her as Cassie.
--
-=[ The BlakGard ]=-
"Somewhere there's danger;
somewhere there's injustice,
and somewhere else the tea is getting cold!"<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: X-Men #155 Spoiler 

"teepee" <no-email RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in
news:iLCdnXz7Yo4qyujd4p2dnA@nildram.net:

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 >
 > Why are Scott and Hank worried about Cassandra Nova's cell being
 > breached? Doesn't Austin realise that Cassandra/Ernst has been
 > wandering around the academy and even taking classes there for months.
 > Or is it just her old body they're worried about?

The only thing I could come up with is that Xavier (and maybe Jean) came
up with the idea of making a Cassandra into a student but didn't tell
the X-Men.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: X-Men #155 Spoiler