WHo should the Messiah Complex's mutant's parents be?

Dan McEwen wrote:
> My real guess is that the mutant child has parents we've never
> before seen. Plus, none of the people anyone have listed have had
> the opportunity to get pregnant and have a child.

If we haven't even seen the parents before, I'm liable to be miffed.
To be honest, I'm more interested in whether mutants can have mutant
children than whether a knocked-up flatscan is having a mutant.

The last time I remember seeing Lila Cheney was towards the end of X-
TREME X-MEN, and Amelia Voght hasn't been actually seen since Genosha
went boom. Diamond Lil was last seen in WEAPON X, I believe. Plenty of
time to have a baby, I think.
 >> Stay informed about: WHo should the Messiah Complex's mutant's parents be? 

My real guess is that the mutant child has parents we've never before
seen. Plus, none of the people anyone have listed have had the
opportunity to get pregnant and have a child.
 >> Stay informed about: WHo should the Messiah Complex's mutant's parents be? 

On 24 Sep 2007 01:57:47 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy DeleteThis @gmail.com>
wrote:

>My real guess is that the mutant child has parents we've never before
>seen. Plus, none of the people anyone have listed have had the
>opportunity to get pregnant and have a child.

If you read X-Factor, then you'd know that several characters over
there have had the oppotunity and one of them may very well be
pregnant...whether or not this is the Messiah Complex kid is unlikely
given the time frame but who knows? Emma has also had ample
opportunity. I do, however, agree that it is likely either parents
we've never seen or else someone we haven't seen in a long while. I
wouldn't be surprised if Wanda shows up with a Hawkeye Jr. at some
point but I doubt it's part of this storyline.
 >> Stay informed about: WHo should the Messiah Complex's mutant's parents be? 

Dan McEwen wrote:
> Kenneth M. Lin wrote:
>> Dan McEwen wrote:
>>> The Black Guardian wrote:
>>>> Dan McEwen wrote:
>>>>> My real guess is that the mutant child has parents we've never
>>>>> before seen. Plus, none of the people anyone have listed have
>>>>> had the opportunity to get pregnant and have a child.
>>>>
>>>> If we haven't even seen the parents before, I'm liable to be
>>>> miffed. To be honest, I'm more interested in whether mutants
>>>> can have mutant children than whether a knocked-up flatscan is
>>>> having a mutant.
>>>
>>> I'm the reverse. If two humans have a mutant, it means that the
>>> x-factor *isn't* lost among normal humans. That's rather
>>> significant.

I do see your point, but if mutants don't start having offspring of
their own, they become an evolutionary deadend.

>> I thought mutation means that the child acquires attributes not
>> passed down from his/her parents. If a child of a mutant
>> inherits the parent's "abilities," then I am not sure he/she
>> still qualifies as a mutant. (I know that in MU it does but it
>> still doesn't make sense to.)
>
> The MU defines "mutant" as someone with an active x-gene. I would
> guess that even in the Mu "mutant" had its origins in standard
> science. When people started noticing these super-powered people,
> they were very different from their parents. In most cases, they
> still are. Once mutants started having children, the terminology
> was already in place. There was no reason to find another term
> just because mutants could now pass their abilities down to the
> next generation. The proper term is "Homo sapien superior".
> "Mutant" is to Homo sapiens superior what "human" is to "Homo
> sapien sapiens". (BTW, I'm unclear of when I'm supposed to use
> "sapien" versus "sapiens", and just used my judgment. Googling
> yields conflicting results.)

You're never supposed to use "sapien" (without the S) when using it
scientifically. Whenever you see it without the S, it means someone
either made an error or they're colloquializing the scientific word.
 >> Stay informed about: WHo should the Messiah Complex's mutant's parents be? 

The Black Guardian <blakgard.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in
news:1190610718.349721.315410@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:

> Dan McEwen wrote:
>> My real guess is that the mutant child has parents we've never
>> before seen. Plus, none of the people anyone have listed have had
>> the opportunity to get pregnant and have a child.
>
> If we haven't even seen the parents before, I'm liable to be miffed.
> To be honest, I'm more interested in whether mutants can have mutant
> children than whether a knocked-up flatscan is having a mutant.

I'm the reverse. If two humans have a mutant, it means that the
x-factor *isn't* lost among normal humans. That's rather significant.
 >> Stay informed about: WHo should the Messiah Complex's mutant's parents be? 

"Dan McEwen" <ferroSPAMboy RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns99B59F683ECF9McEwen@130.133.1.4...
> The Black Guardian <blakgard RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in
> news:1190610718.349721.315410@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Dan McEwen wrote:
>>> My real guess is that the mutant child has parents we've never
>>> before seen. Plus, none of the people anyone have listed have had
>>> the opportunity to get pregnant and have a child.
>>
>> If we haven't even seen the parents before, I'm liable to be miffed.
>> To be honest, I'm more interested in whether mutants can have mutant
>> children than whether a knocked-up flatscan is having a mutant.
>
> I'm the reverse. If two humans have a mutant, it means that the
> x-factor *isn't* lost among normal humans. That's rather significant.

I thought mutation means that the child acquires attributes not passed down
from his/her parents. If a child of a mutant inherits the parent's
"abilities," then I am not sure he/she still qualifies as a mutant. (I know
that in MU it does but it still doesn't make sense to.)
 >> Stay informed about: WHo should the Messiah Complex's mutant's parents be? 

"Kenneth M. Lin" <kenneth_m_lin RemoveThis @sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:h9VJi.293$ih1.261@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com:

>
> "Dan McEwen" <ferroSPAMboy RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns99B59F683ECF9McEwen@130.133.1.4...
>> The Black Guardian <blakgard RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in
>> news:1190610718.349721.315410@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> Dan McEwen wrote:
>>>> My real guess is that the mutant child has parents we've never
>>>> before seen. Plus, none of the people anyone have listed have had
>>>> the opportunity to get pregnant and have a child.
>>>
>>> If we haven't even seen the parents before, I'm liable to be miffed.
>>> To be honest, I'm more interested in whether mutants can have mutant
>>> children than whether a knocked-up flatscan is having a mutant.
>>
>> I'm the reverse. If two humans have a mutant, it means that the
>> x-factor *isn't* lost among normal humans. That's rather
>> significant.
>
> I thought mutation means that the child acquires attributes not passed
> down from his/her parents. If a child of a mutant inherits the
> parent's "abilities," then I am not sure he/she still qualifies as a
> mutant. (I know that in MU it does but it still doesn't make sense
> to.)

The MU defines "mutant" as someone with an active x-gene. I would guess
that even in the Mu "mutant" had its origins in standard science. When
people started noticing these super-powered people, they were very
different from their parents. In most cases, they still are. Once
mutants started having children, the terminology was already in place.
There was no reason to find another term just because mutants could now
pass their abilities down to the next generation. The proper term is
"Homo sapien superior". "Mutant" is to Homo sapiens superior what
"human" is to "Homo sapien sapiens". (BTW, I'm unclear of when I'm
supposed to use "sapien" versus "sapiens", and just used my judgment.
Googling yields conflicting results.)
 >> Stay informed about: WHo should the Messiah Complex's mutant's parents be? 

Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in news:Xns99B59F683ECF9McEwen@
130.133.1.4:

> The Black Guardian <blakgard.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in
> news:1190610718.349721.315410@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Dan McEwen wrote:
>>> My real guess is that the mutant child has parents we've never
>>> before seen. Plus, none of the people anyone have listed have had
>>> the opportunity to get pregnant and have a child.
>>
>> If we haven't even seen the parents before, I'm liable to be miffed.
>> To be honest, I'm more interested in whether mutants can have mutant
>> children than whether a knocked-up flatscan is having a mutant.
>
> I'm the reverse. If two humans have a mutant, it means that the
> x-factor *isn't* lost among normal humans. That's rather significant.

Well, that is kind of why Beast went to the Guthries in Endangered
Species, but Ma Guthrie refused to give any help.
 >> Stay informed about: WHo should the Messiah Complex's mutant's parents be? 

JLB <barnett.RemoveThis@shentel.net> wrote in
news:1190687548.675769.86390@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

> On Sep 24, 9:49 pm, grinningdemon <grinningde....RemoveThis@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> On 24 Sep 2007 19:43:53 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAM....RemoveThis@gmail.com>
>> wrote:

>> >She's already got two kids (sort of). As poorly as she handled
>> >them, she doesn't need more. (Thanks, John Byrne!)
>>
>> It never made sense for her to have those kids in the first
>> place...for God's sake, the Vision is a Ken doll...and, if you're
>> talking about those two from Young Avengers, that has never been
>> confirmed...Billy just assumed that he and his brother must somehow
>> be Wanda's kids based on the fact that they are twins and have
>> similar powers to Wanda and Pietro.- Hide quoted text -
>
> Vision may be infertile but the people who originally wrote the story
> never said whether he was anatomically correct or not. The guy who
> declared he was a toaster was on the record as hating the relatioship
> and has been known to deconstruct stories.

Byrne's story didn't add up anyway. I had a reprint of a story where
Hank Pym actually shrank down and entered the Vision's body to find out
why he was comatose. Inside, he found a being whose internal structure
very closely mimicked what you would see inside of a living organism.
The Vision was alive in every sense of the word. So what if he was
synthetically created? Byrne ignored that and turned him into a
machine.
 >> Stay informed about: WHo should the Messiah Complex's mutant's parents be? 

Billy Bissette <baines DeleteThis @coastalnet.com> wrote in
news:Xns99B5EB5A329Dwhatcholookinat@216.168.3.70:

> Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in
> news:Xns99B59F683ECF9McEwen@ 130.133.1.4:
>
>> The Black Guardian <blakgard DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in
>> news:1190610718.349721.315410@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> Dan McEwen wrote:
>>>> My real guess is that the mutant child has parents we've never
>>>> before seen. Plus, none of the people anyone have listed have had
>>>> the opportunity to get pregnant and have a child.
>>>
>>> If we haven't even seen the parents before, I'm liable to be miffed.
>>> To be honest, I'm more interested in whether mutants can have mutant
>>> children than whether a knocked-up flatscan is having a mutant.
>>
>> I'm the reverse. If two humans have a mutant, it means that the
>> x-factor *isn't* lost among normal humans. That's rather
>> significant.
>
> Well, that is kind of why Beast went to the Guthries in Endangered
> Species, but Ma Guthrie refused to give any help.

And look where that got her. Maybe she should have just allowed it. I
also think Lucinda was very selfish in her decision.
 >> Stay informed about: WHo should the Messiah Complex's mutant's parents be? 

grinningdemon <grinningdemon DeleteThis @austin.rr.com> wrote in
news:a57hf3pacsjrpo2n57apesttf875ps8vvb@4ax.com:

> On 25 Sep 2007 03:48:16 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy DeleteThis @gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>grinningdemon <grinningdemon DeleteThis @austin.rr.com> wrote in
>>news:64qgf31o7ndb6oudo3dfm1mclo6488no9p@4ax.com:

>>> It never made sense for her to have those kids in the first
>>> place...for God's sake, the Vision is a Ken doll...and, if you're
>>> talking about those two from Young Avengers, that has never been
>>> confirmed...Billy just assumed that he and his brother must somehow
>>> be Wanda's kids based on the fact that they are twins and have
>>> similar powers to Wanda and Pietro.
>>
>>It was magic. It made as much sense as there being a kid walking
>>around who is half-Kree/half-Skrull. Sure, it's biology versus magic,
>>but the biology doesn't match up in the real world anyway. There's no
>>real difference except what you're willing to accept.
>
> The main reason I never liked Wanda's kids is because they were never
> treated as characters in their own rights (as opposed to the Richards
> kids)...they were just accessories for Wanda and I didn't miss them at
> all once they were gone.

OK, valid point. Had it been Englehart in control, they would have been
a part of the lives of Wanda and Vision. I blame lack of creativity.
It would have made more sense to age them relatively quickly and then
leave them at a suitably appropriate young age. (For more on that, see
everything ever written about Franklin Richards.) However, since that
wasn't done, your feelings make sense.
 >> Stay informed about: WHo should the Messiah Complex's mutant's parents be? 

grinningdemon wrote:
> The Black Guardian wrote:
>> grinningdemon wrote:
>>> The main reason I never liked Wanda's kids is because they were
>>> never treated as characters in their own rights (as opposed to
>>> the Richards kids)...they were just accessories for Wanda and I
>>> didn't miss them at all once they were gone.
>
>> The major differences being...
>> 1. When Franklin was born, Marvel was still letting time elapse in
>> almost realtime. By the time Wanda's kids were born, we were
>> starting to really see the sliding timeline deal.
>> 2. The twins were only around for three years (our time).
>> Considering #1, this is hardly enough time for them to be
>> characters in their own rights.
>
> I think they've done a pretty good job with Val Richards and she
> hasn't been around much longer than that.

It's now been just over 5 years. 2-3 years ago, Valeria was no better.

>> That said, even Franklin was little more than an accessory for
>> Sue for years. Aside from the hints of his powers here and there,
>> the kid had all of the characterization of a tree stump. I've
>> even heard some people wonder if Franklin had autism because he
>> just didn't do much of anything.
>
> That may be true but, by the time I was reading FF, that was no
> longer the case... if it were, I'd feel the same way about the
> Richards kids.

Which tells me that babies of superheroes *should* go through a period
of being only an accessory for their parents. This is just a natural
part of not only their evolution, but their parents'.

Frankly, I think Thomas and William were right at the point where they
could start becoming interesting characters in their own right when
all of the potential was destroyed due to a lack of imagination and
insight.
 >> Stay informed about: WHo should the Messiah Complex's mutant's parents be? 

JLB wrote in message <1190574398.721331.250520.RemoveThis@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>...
>I say Wanda Maximoff and Clint Barton.
>

I don't know about that. I'll check

mk5000

"So you see, here we have baldness as a sort of fashion-rhetoric, that can be interpreted a couple different ways: on the one hand,
you’ve got your Lex Luthor, enemy of cheerful, spit-curled Superman. On the other, you’ve got your Bruce Willis action hero, blowing
up sneering, scrupulously-coiffed Eurotrash. At least, they seem, to the eye of recollection, as though they were
scrupulously-coiffed when we saw them last. Of course they weren’t, really: they were ascetics, too. But, Eurotrash ascetics — and
so, inevitably, monsters of vanity when it came down to it, their asceticism only standing in for the moral emptiness they embrace,
rather than for the dogged attempt to somehow reject it, that we see glistening off of old Bruce’s pate. "--
http://circumstantial.wordpress.com/2007/09/24/the-phantom-head-shaver-part-2/
 >> Stay informed about: WHo should the Messiah Complex's mutant's parents be?