Middle-earth Map

In article <Oo2%c.1825$cb4.18209963@news-text.cableinet.net>,
Christopher Kreuzer <spamgard.TakeThisOut@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>Hobbit would be a good example of an original non-name Tolkien word that
>you probably couldn't use in any context (especially as it got its own
>dictionary entry, didn't it?).

I would think the dictionary entry would argue against any claim to
exclusive rights to the word, actually. Once a word becomes recognized as
part of the language, it should be free for anybody to use.

But as it happens, there's a reason the "hobbits" of 1st edition Dungeons
and Dragons later became "halflings" (and the "ents" became "treants", and
the "balrogs" "balors"). Though I'm not sure if that reason is because the
Tolkien estate won a lawsuit, or the fledgeling TSR simply didn't have the
resources to fight.
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"Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown.RemoveThis@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:MPG.1ba62f2d3a79232e98c945@news.odyssey.net...

> "Öjevind Lång" <dnivejo.gnal.RemoveThis@swipnet.se> wrote in
> rec.arts.books.tolkien:

>> I also think Disney, Tolkien Enterprises and all the
>> other copyright-holding colossi are greedy beyond
>> description.

> Greedy, and shortsighted.

> The Tolkien Enterprises could make a modest profit by
> putting the books on searchable CD-ROM. but they
> steadfastly refuse -- and many fans turn to illegal
> copies.

Clarification in the names and rights owned;

Tolkien Estate = JRRT's descendants, own book rights to The Hobbit and
LotR and all rights to Tolkien's other works.

Tolkien Enterprises = Saul Zaentz, owns film and merchandizing rights to
The Hobbit and LotR.


Thus, it is 'Tolkien Enterprises' which goes nuts and sues anybody and
everybody who uses any word even tangentially related to those two
books... but the 'Tolkien Estate' which does not put out an electronic
copy of the books.

On that issue... MOST authors don't provide electronic copies and I
hardly expect Christopher to be an innovator in this field. I don't
think that is greed so much as inertia... which may be short-sighted,
but it's certainly understandable that someone would be 'short-sighted'
about a technology which did not even exist for most of their lifetime.

> As for the larger issue: words like "shoe" and "wizard"
> can't be copyrighted, but character names can be.

Actually, 'trademarked' rather than 'copyrighted'.

> But I don't know "Gandalf" can be copyrighted, since
> that name was in the public domain centuries before
> Tolkien was born.

Tolkien Enterprises (Saul Zaentz) sued a clown who did magic tricks and
called himself 'Gandalf the Wizard Clown' because he infringed upon
their trademark. They won too. The legal standard is that if the use
of the name/term is meant to evoke the trademarked
character/place/whatever then it is an infringement. 'Gandalf the Dwarf
Clown' would have been a harder case to make because it goes back to the
Eddas - but if a judge could be convinved it was still meant to evoke
Tolkien's character then it could be ruled an infringement. There was a
case a few years back where the actors who played 'Norm and Cliff' on
the television show Cheers successfully sued a beer company for using
guys who sorta looked/sounded/acted like them in ads... even though
their names and likenesses were not used the judge ruled that the
characters in the ads were meant to evoke those two guys and thus their
trademark rights were violated.
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"Conrad Dunkerson" <conrad.dunkerson DeleteThis @worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<nCK%c.6124$wF4.702@trndny09>...
> "Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown DeleteThis @fastmail.fm> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1ba62f2d3a79232e98c945@news.odyssey.net...
>
> > "Öjevind Lång" <dnivejo.gnal DeleteThis @swipnet.se> wrote in
> > rec.arts.books.tolkien:
>
> >> I also think Disney, Tolkien Enterprises and all the
> >> other copyright-holding colossi are greedy beyond
> >> description.
>
> > Greedy, and shortsighted.
>
> > The Tolkien Enterprises could make a modest profit by
> > putting the books on searchable CD-ROM. but they
> > steadfastly refuse -- and many fans turn to illegal
> > copies.
>
> Clarification in the names and rights owned;
>
> Tolkien Estate = JRRT's descendants, own book rights to The Hobbit and
> LotR and all rights to Tolkien's other works.
>
> Tolkien Enterprises = Saul Zaentz, owns film and merchandizing rights to
> The Hobbit and LotR.
>
>
> Thus, it is 'Tolkien Enterprises' which goes nuts and sues anybody and
> everybody who uses any word even tangentially related to those two
> books... but the 'Tolkien Estate' which does not put out an electronic
> copy of the books.
>
> On that issue... MOST authors don't provide electronic copies and I
> hardly expect Christopher to be an innovator in this field. I don't
> think that is greed so much as inertia... which may be short-sighted,
> but it's certainly understandable that someone would be 'short-sighted'
> about a technology which did not even exist for most of their lifetime.
>
> > As for the larger issue: words like "shoe" and "wizard"
> > can't be copyrighted, but character names can be.
>
> Actually, 'trademarked' rather than 'copyrighted'.
>


I had to teach Michael O'Neill, wealthy educated Dublinian architect,
the difference between those two all those years ago when I first
showed up here.
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"Christopher Kreuzer" <spamgard RemoveThis @blueyonder.co.uk> wrote
 > FWIW, the companies trying to claim a right to the word 'shire' are New
 > Line, Saul Zaentz and Warner Brothers.


One suspects that they're going to be on a loser with this
one!


--
Jette
Never bet on Star Trek trivia if your opponent speaks Klingon.
- Ancient Kung Foole Proverb
jette RemoveThis @blueyonder.co.uk<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Jette Goldie" <jet.TakeThisOut@blueyonder.com.uk> wrote in message
news:O9p0d.4648$o61.48249969@news-text.cableinet.net...

 > "Christopher Kreuzer" <spamgard.TakeThisOut@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote
  >> FWIW, the companies trying to claim a right to the word
  >> 'shire' are New Line, Saul Zaentz and Warner Brothers.

 > One suspects that they're going to be on a loser with this
 > one!

Depends.

If they can make the case that the particular use of 'Shire' is meant to
invoke 'THE Shire' of Tolkien's stories then they'll probably win. If
it is just being used in the traditional English sense with no
implications of little people or peace/tranquility/party tree then
they'll probably lose.


New Line and Warner Bros are effectively paying to 'rent' the trademark
from Zaentz... but that trademark applies only to Tolkien's Shire or
things meant to represent it, not to any and all uses of the word.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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