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Moties and the CoDominium Universe

 
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someone8

External


Since: Apr 21, 2004
Posts: 1



(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:42 am
Post subject: Moties and the CoDominium Universe
Archived from groups: alt>books>larry-niven (more info?)

hi!
I guess we can all agree that when Moties were introduced to The Co-Dominium
Universe,
it forever changed the Empire of Man.

In "The Mote in God's Eye", we're introduced to the Moties on Mote Prime,
the planet.
We see the different Mote classes and how the Empire of Man handles the
First Contact.
We also see that the Moties are not really evil, but their nature makes them
behave
in a certain way as a society, as a culture.

In "The Gripping Hand", we see the same Co-Dominium Universe 25 years later.
The Empire of Man has placed a blockade fleet at the only Alderson Jump
Point into the Mote
System.

In the intervening 25 years, what little Motie technology that was brought
out,
the magic coffee pot and some super-conducting material, changed the Empire
of Man.
The Humans began plating their hulls of their starships with super-coductive
material,
to help their Langston Field from 'burning through'.
The book ends with Bury suggesting they make Kevin Renner Govenor of the
Mote System,
and Bury splits his shares up to give 3 families in the Mote System voting
power in
the Merchants' Guild.

Now comes my questions! Smile I sincerely appreciate any and all replies.

01) It's stated that the planet - Mote Prime - 'bombed itself back to
bricks'.
So what is Kevin Renner Govenor of? The Solar System in general? The
3 Families that Bury left shares to?

02) The Motes don't have to use the C-L Worm IN their system.
That IMPLIES that they can leave their solar system and travel.
I can see a logical extension of the story would be to have the
Empire of Man deed maybe a dozen worlds to the Moties.
I'd give them a dozen worlds, out near the Outies, but near enough
the Empire for quick trade.

Does this make sense to anyone? Arguments for or against?

03) I'm in Australia, and getting all of the books has
been...VERY...difficult.
And I know there is a suggested reading order, but I've been skipping around
as my ordered used books get delivered to me via overseas mail.
I don't *fully* understand the Alderson Jump Tram Lines.
With 1 or 2 exceptions that I feel I should ignore (from the War series),
a Tram Line exists between a pair of stars. 2 stars=1 path. Period.
This begs the question: is the overall "network" of Tram Lines "hub-like",
similar to an airline's hub-and-spoke system, or can there be a continuation
of the Tram Line from Star A to Star B, then Star B to Star C?
Example: I am in Solar System "A". I find the Alderson Jump Point, manuever
there, and engage the Jump Drives. I am now in System "B", at the other end
of the
"A"-"B" Tram Line.

Would there exist a Tram Line, perhaps on the other side of the star,
that would connect Star "B" to Star "C"?

Would these ONLY exist in solar systems with multiple suns?

04) Would anyone know of a list, chart, or map of the known Tram Lines, with
star names?
(hope hope) "Dan Andersen's Tramline Map" is my new goal.... it seems to
have almost
every tram line indicated!!

05) while I'm at it, does anyone know if Pournelle/Niven used hard astronomy
to
pick colonies? In other words, can I get a current Star Catalog and convert
the Right Angle, Declination and Distance to an X, Y & Z cartesian
coordinates,
and map out the Tram Lines?

I thank everyone for tolerating a long post, and I once again thank you
for any replies.

Warm regards,

-Joel

traveller at dhimaging dot com dot au

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jdg

External


Since: Jul 12, 2003
Posts: 19



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 12:13 am
Post subject: Re: Moties and the CoDominium Universe [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Lucy wrote:
 > 01) It's stated that the planet - Mote Prime - 'bombed itself back to
 > bricks'.
 > So what is Kevin Renner Govenor of? The Solar System in general? The
 > 3 Families that Bury left shares to?

It would have to be either the entire Mote system, or the entire Motie
species with all its variants. Or both.

 > 02) The Motes don't have to use the C-L Worm IN their system.
 > That IMPLIES that they can leave their solar system and travel.

The situation can't be quite that simple, because of two problems
related to the C-L Worm.

a) The Worm is probably not sufficient for all Motie variants.
(Remember, the only live Moties the Blaine Institute got to experiment
on were three Mediators and a Master, plus the dead Engineer from the
probe.) Also, you have to assume that some Moties will develop
immunity to the Worm, maybe on purpose (unless you clamp down
restrictions on scientific research by or about Moties comparable to
those of the CoDominium period on Earth).

b) At least for Masters, Mediators, and Engineers, the Worm really
isn't necessary for birth control. Assume no Worm; if some Masters and
Engineers want to avoid a population explosion in their clan*, they can
simply arrange to have all (or most) of their sex with each other, thus
producing only (or mostly) Mediators which are sterile. (You still get
a huge second generation but little or no third.) This means that the
Motie population explosion (at least of those three types) is not a
result of Moties' inability, but of their unwillingness, to limit their
growth. It's a political problem, and it's basically unchanged by the
invention of the Worm.

* I'm using "clan" in a political (and historical) sense, meaning the
domain of one family of Masters.

 > I can see a logical extension of the story would be to have the
 > Empire of Man deed maybe a dozen worlds to the Moties.
 > I'd give them a dozen worlds, out near the Outies, but near enough
 > the Empire for quick trade.

Very bad idea. Let the Moties go anywhere near the Outies and you just
know that some Motie clans will go to work inventing superweapons for
the Outies in exchange for lebensraum and freedom from the Worm
requirement. For that reason, I can't imagine that humans would let
Moties settle anywhere the Empire doesn't have someone watching them.
I wouldn't let them have their own interstellar ships, and even letting
them send interstellar messages in their own languages might be too
dangerous. Screw this up and pretty soon you wind up with the mega-war
that Rod predicted in the first book. (That might make a good story in
itself, complete with the doomed efforts of the Outies to keep their
Motie allies hidden and under control, but I can't see it having but
the one possible outcome.)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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