Movie Errors

pmhilton wrote:

 > JXStern wrote:
 >
  >>
  >> It's an echo of how it is in the book, where Frodo offers Wormtongue a
  >> chance to recover a bit before moving on.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>
 > Forgive me, but I've been reading the books for 30 years and fail to
 > remember where Frodo ever met Wormtongue.

Scouring of the Shire.



Tony
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Where does Legolas get all those arrows? You never see him
making one, yet his quiver is never empty. And don't say it
was Elf magic. Elves didn't have the ability to create something
out of nothing, not according to either Tolkien or Jackson.

What happened to the Red Book after Frodo gave it to Sam?
As in the book, Frodo had said that the last few pages were
for Sam to write on, but he doesn't have it when he returns home
at the end.

The movie doesn't show the slightest motion of Sam trying to
take the Ring off of Frodo after he was wrapped up by Shelob,
and it would have required quite a lot of effort by Sam to get it.
But Sam miraculously produces it in the tower.

Gollum's fall after the first struggle with Frodo sure looked terminal,
yet Gollum managed to recover and reappear in Mordor.

These last two, of course we knew were going to happen, but it
was poor of PJ to let the reappearances of the Ring and Gollum
look so wildly improbable. Those who had not read the books
it seems would especially think so.

Someone else has already mentioned this, but really, how could
PJ have thought it was OK to kill the Mouth of Sauron in a parley.
Everyone in the universe, except Peter Jackson and his writers,
knows that you don't kill the person you are having a parley with,
unless of course he strikes first. And even more certainly, not
honorable men like Aragorn. What planet is PJ from? How could
he have the slightest true understanding of Tolkien if he could
film that bit of HORRIFIC writing?

-cr
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<oscwr.TakeThisOut@netscape.net> wrote:
 > ...What happened to the Red Book after Frodo gave it to Sam?
 > As in the book, Frodo had said that the last few pages were
 > for Sam to write on, but he doesn't have it when he returns home
 > at the end.

Frodo hands the Red Book to Sam at Bag End so when they leave for the Grey
Havens without it, naturally Sam would not have it upon returning.

 > The movie doesn't show the slightest motion of Sam trying to
 > take the Ring off of Frodo after he was wrapped up by Shelob,
 > and it would have required quite a lot of effort by Sam to get it.
 > But Sam miraculously produces it in the tower.

Just because they don't actually show Sam taking the ring doesn't mean it's
miraculous that he produces it at the tower. To imply that this action took
place doesn't make it an error in the film.

 > Gollum's fall after the first struggle with Frodo sure looked terminal,
 > yet Gollum managed to recover and reappear in Mordor.

They never confirmed he died so just because you're led to believe he died
doesn't make it an error.

 > These last two, of course we knew were going to happen, but it
 > was poor of PJ to let the reappearances of the Ring and Gollum
 > look so wildly improbable. Those who had not read the books
 > it seems would especially think so.
 >
 > Someone else has already mentioned this, but really, how could
 > PJ have thought it was OK to kill the Mouth of Sauron in a parley.
 > Everyone in the universe, except Peter Jackson and his writers,
 > knows that you don't kill the person you are having a parley with,
 > unless of course he strikes first. And even more certainly, not
 > honorable men like Aragorn. What planet is PJ from? How could
 > he have the slightest true understanding of Tolkien if he could
 > film that bit of HORRIFIC writing?

To change the MoS scene from what transpired in the book doesn't necessarily
mean PJ or the other screen writers didn't understand Tolkien. It may be
more accurate to state that PJ never had any intentions of making a film
that matches the book or to convey to the audience the rules of how a herald
should be treated, but rather to make a film as he saw fit. Making a film
that's inspired by Tolkien's LOTR and criticizing the resulting treatment
where they differ from the source material is not automatically the result
of lack of "understanding" of the source material.

borromini<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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In article <524Cd.5760$5R.2480@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>, borromini
<asdf.DeleteThis@asdf.com> writes

  >> ...What happened to the Red Book after Frodo gave it to Sam?
  >> As in the book, Frodo had said that the last few pages were
  >> for Sam to write on, but he doesn't have it when he returns home
  >> at the end.
 >
 >Frodo hands the Red Book to Sam at Bag End so when they leave for the Grey
 >Havens without it, naturally Sam would not have it upon returning.

No he doesn't ! Frodo quite clearly gives the book to Sam at the Grey
Havens *in the movie* - I just watched the EE on Saturday so I know this
to be true... And Sam is quite clearly empty-handed when he gets back to
Bag End - he even picks up Elanor as she runs out the gate to meet
him... So either he stuffed it inside his clothes (not wholly
impossible, but seems rather unlikely), or there's a continuity error
there (quite possible).

Michele
==
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possessed a book with mind and spirit, you are enriched. But when you
pass it on you are enriched threefold."
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==
Now reading: Spindle's End - Robin McKinley
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On 2 Jan 2005 16:11:51 -0800, oscwr DeleteThis @netscape.net wrote:

 >Where does Legolas get all those arrows? You never see him
 >making one, yet his quiver is never empty. And don't say it
 >was Elf magic. Elves didn't have the ability to create something
 >out of nothing, not according to either Tolkien or Jackson.

This has been discussed before. Many of us feel that Legolas scours
for arrows to refill his quiver after the battle is over, but there is
no answer.

 >What happened to the Red Book after Frodo gave it to Sam?
 >As in the book, Frodo had said that the last few pages were
 >for Sam to write on, but he doesn't have it when he returns home
 >at the end.

I don't recall Sam getting the Red Book at the Havens. I remember
Frodo telling Sam that the last few pages are for Sam to finish,
before they left Bag End. I don't have time to watch the DVD right
now. It doesn't really matter. Maybe it was in his pack? Maybe he
dropped his pack just out of view of the door before he greeted his
family?

 >The movie doesn't show the slightest motion of Sam trying to
 >take the Ring off of Frodo after he was wrapped up by Shelob,
 >and it would have required quite a lot of effort by Sam to get it.
 >But Sam miraculously produces it in the tower.

The Ring was on a chain around Frodo's neck. It would not be
difficult at all to take the chain off.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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NobodyMan wrote:
 >I don't recall Sam getting the Red Book at the Havens. I remember
 >Frodo telling Sam that the last few pages are for Sam to finish,
 >before they left Bag End. I don't have time to watch the DVD right
 >now.

It's interesting how many people don't remember that Frodo
gave Sam the Red Book at the Grey Havens in the movie.

 >It doesn't really matter. Maybe it was in his pack? Maybe he
 >dropped his pack just out of view of the door before he greeted
 >his family?

Nobody said it really mattered, and Sam wasn't carrying a pack.

 >The Ring was on a chain around Frodo's neck. It would not be
 >difficult at all to take the chain off.

If you look again at how well Shelob wrapped up Frodo, you
will realize how difficult and time-consuming it would be
to take the chain from around his neck. The quickest way
to get the Ring would be to find it and then yank it off the
chain, as Frodo did at the Crack of Doom. But Peter Jackson
instead made it look like Sam had no time at all to get the
Ring, between the last time we see Frodo fully wrapped up,
and when the Orcs arrived.

A similar scene was when Frodo fell in the snow in FotR, and
the Ring on its chain miraculously came out from under Frodo's
clothes and over his head, to end up on the ground in view of
Boromir. The Ring had a will, but it didn't have means of
locomotion, and it's doubtful it would have willed itself into
Boromir's grasp, though of course that last point could be
endlessly debated.

Peter Jackson is very sloppy about such things, though he has
other strengths which make up for his sloppiness somewhat.

-cr<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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oscwr.TakeThisOut@netscape.net <oscwr.TakeThisOut@netscape.net> wrote:
> NobodyMan wrote:
>> I don't recall Sam getting the Red Book at the Havens. I remember
>> Frodo telling Sam that the last few pages are for Sam to finish,
>> before they left Bag End. I don't have time to watch the DVD right
>> now.
>
> It's interesting how many people don't remember that Frodo
> gave Sam the Red Book at the Grey Havens in the movie.

Only 2 by my count. I'd guess most people do remember that Frodo gave
Sam the Red Book at the Grey Havens in the film, or are confusing this
with what happened in the book.

Either that, or people had left the cinema already...
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Apteryx suggested:
 >2) The real last line of the film ("Fuck it! I've left the friggin'
 >Red Book at Grey Havens", heard through the door just after it
 >closed) was deleted at the censor's request to preserve the desired
 >rating.

Since 'friggin' is a supposedly more acceptable form of 'fuckin',
no one would use 'fuck it' and 'friggin' in the same conversation,
much less the same sentence. Therefore this deleted but 'real
last line of the film' is probably urban legendary in nature.

-cr<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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<oscwr RemoveThis @netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1104711111.217399.128910@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
 > Where does Legolas get all those arrows? You never see him
 > making one, yet his quiver is never empty. And don't say it
 > was Elf magic. Elves didn't have the ability to create something
 > out of nothing, not according to either Tolkien or Jackson.

Scenes of Legolas going round the battlefields (as archers did) picking
up spent arrows were cut for pacing reasons?

 > What happened to the Red Book after Frodo gave it to Sam?
 > As in the book, Frodo had said that the last few pages were
 > for Sam to write on, but he doesn't have it when he returns home
 > at the end.

1) He lent it to Merry or Pippin; or
2) The real last line of the film ("Fuck it! I've left the friggin' Red
Book at Grey Havens", heard through the door just after it closed) was
deleted at the censor's request to preserve the desired rating.

--
Apteryx
Treat anger like gold. Spend it wisely or not at all.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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 >From: oscwr.RemoveThis@netscape.net

 >A similar scene was when Frodo fell in the snow in FotR, and
 >the Ring on its chain miraculously came out from under Frodo's
 >clothes and over his head, to end up on the ground in view of
 >Boromir.

 >-cr

A miracle, indeed. But doesn't it result in Boromir quoting some real LOTR - I
mean does not Tolkien let *someone* (if not Boromir) say something like 'so
small a thing causes so much trouble'?

But I may be mistaken again (I had wrongly assumed that Boromir's last
movie-words 'My brother, my captain, my king' to Aragorn were by Tolkien).

Leni<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Leni <mattyline DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote:
  >> From: oscwr DeleteThis @netscape.net
 >
  >> A similar scene was when Frodo fell in the snow in FotR, and
  >> the Ring on its chain miraculously came out from under Frodo's
  >> clothes and over his head, to end up on the ground in view of
  >> Boromir.
 >
 > A miracle, indeed. But doesn't it result in Boromir quoting some real
 > LOTR - I mean does not Tolkien let *someone* (if not Boromir) say
 > something like 'so small a thing causes so much trouble'?

It does indeed. Boromir's words in the book are slightly changed and
moved from his scene alone with Frodo on the slopes of Amon Hen, to the
film scene on the western slopes of Caradhras.

BOOK: "Is it not a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and
doubt for so small a thing? So small a thing!" (Boromir speaking to
Frodo, The Breaking of the Fellowship, LotR)

FILM: "It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt
over so small a thing. Such a little thing." (Boromir speaking to Frodo,
Caradhras scene, LotR: The Fellowship of the Ring)

The similarities are obvious, the differences are more subtle. The book
line is phrased as a question followed by an exclamatory statement,
while the film has two statements (depending on whether the
transcription I'm using is accurate).

Christopher

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reply to Stephen:
You sure keyed in a lot of stuff just to express that sarcasm.

-cr
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Michele Fry <michele.DeleteThis@sassoonery.demon.co.uk> wrote:
: In article <524Cd.5760$5R.2480@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>, borromini
: <asdf.DeleteThis@asdf.com> writes

:>> ...What happened to the Red Book after Frodo gave it to Sam?
:>> As in the book, Frodo had said that the last few pages were
:>> for Sam to write on, but he doesn't have it when he returns home
:>> at the end.
:>
:>Frodo hands the Red Book to Sam at Bag End so when they leave for the Grey
:>Havens without it, naturally Sam would not have it upon returning.

: No he doesn't ! Frodo quite clearly gives the book to Sam at the Grey
: Havens *in the movie* - I just watched the EE on Saturday so I know this
: to be true... And Sam is quite clearly empty-handed when he gets back to
: Bag End - he even picks up Elanor as she runs out the gate to meet
: him... So either he stuffed it inside his clothes (not wholly
: impossible, but seems rather unlikely), or there's a continuity error
: there (quite possible).

That is nothing compared to the continuity error in the book!!
"At last they rode over the downs and took the East Road, and
then Merry and Pippin rode on to Buckland; and already they
were singing again as they went. But Sam turned to Bywater,
and so came back up the Hill, as day was ending once more.
And he went on, and there was yellow light, and fire within;
and the evening meal was ready, and he was expected. And
Rose drew him in, and set him in his chair, and put little
Elanor upon his lap."
Nowhere does it say Sam got off of his pony!!!! He is
clearly mounted at the beginning and there is no mention of
him ever getting off of his pony, or what he did with it.
All of a sudden the pony is just gone!!! Or Sam rode his pony
into the house and sat it down on his chair!

Stephen
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