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Next: Why doesn't sauron know...
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Since: Mar 01, 2004
Posts: 36
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(Msg. 16) Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 7:42 pm
Post subject: Re: ROTK: Yuck [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books>tolkien (more info?)
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Bryan S. Slick wrote:
>Secondly, you've made it pretty clear over time that there was
>absolutely nothing Return of the King as shown by Peter Jackson could do
>or show to get a good review from you, Justin. Your mind was made up
>before you went. You couldn't follow along in the movie by simply
>turning pages in your copy of Tolkien's ROTK.. therefore, it's a horrid
>abomination, etc, etc, etc.
What a bizarre, strange world you live in.
Everyone should note that over the past few days I have:
(1) Praised FOTR as perhaps the greatest fantasy film ever produced. (Hell, I
did that in the very same message Bryan was replying to.)
(2) Defended several changes Jackson made to the films, including the removal
of Glorfindel, the removal of the Scouring of the Shire, and others.
(3) Criticized TTT for its flaws, but also pointed out (repeatedly) that it
remains a good film despite those flaws.
Clearly this all adds up in Bryan's delusions to a man with an "agenda against
the movies". I'm rather unclear what that agenda could be, but I'm sure Bryan
will post another rant soon "explaining" it to us.
Justin Bacon
triad3204.DeleteThis@aol.com |
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Since: Mar 01, 2004
Posts: 36
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(Msg. 17) Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 7:48 pm
Post subject: Re: ROTK: Yuck [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Sinadamor wrote:
>Me, I'm going to see the movie and try to see it just as a film where
>any resmblance to Tolkien will be incidental. It may be a decent
>fantasy film, in and of itself.
I'm going to see it again this evening (because I already had tickets to go
with a second group of friends, otherwise I would probably not see the film
again in the theaters). I may enjoy it more this time, because my subconscious
won't be keeping a tally of the changes (I had a similar experience with FOTR
-- but I enjoyed FOTR the first time, so it's hard to say).
And things like the "flaming Denethor runs the length of the city" were
certainly *more* painful because I knew that all Jackson had to do was film
what was on the page to avoid such a cornball sequence. But even if I had seen
such a sequence in a film which had nothing to do with Tolkien at all, it would
have been painfully corny (or deliberately hilarious if the movie had been a
comedy).
Justin Bacon
triad3204 RemoveThis @aol.com |
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Since: Mar 01, 2004
Posts: 36
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(Msg. 18) Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 7:51 pm
Post subject: Re: ROTK: Yuck [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Jussi Jaatinen wrote:
>Justin Bacon wrote:
>
>> Just got back from a midnight showing of ROTK.
>>
>> Yuck. Just... yuck.
>
>Quelle surprise, M. Bacon disliked ROTK. I wonder why you bothered to go
>to a midnight showing, or any showing for that matter?
Because I thought FOTR was arguably the finest fantasy film ever produced? And
I thought TTT was a good film despite its myriad plot holes, continuity errors,
pacing issues, and problems of tone?
Why would I *not* go to see a film which had a potential for greatness or, at
the very least, quality entertainment?
By the end of that midnight showing of ROTK, though, Jackson had actually
managed to make me utter the Eight Deadly Words: "I don't care what happens to
these people."
Justin Bacon
triad3204.TakeThisOut@aol.com >> Stay informed about: ROTK: Yuck |
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Since: Feb 07, 2004
Posts: 72
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(Msg. 19) Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:06 pm
Post subject: Re: ROTK: Yuck [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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triad3204 RemoveThis @aol.com (Justin Bacon) wrote in message news:<20031217060906.14309.00001033 RemoveThis @mb-m14.aol.com>...
> Just got back from a midnight showing of ROTK.
>
> Yuck. Just... yuck.
<snip>
> How can the very same production have reduced itself to such utter ruin as THE
> RETURN OF THE KING?
Actually, it was the most faithful of the three theatrical versions.
I enjoyed it.
-- FotW
Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth. >> Stay informed about: ROTK: Yuck |
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Since: Feb 17, 2004
Posts: 17
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(Msg. 20) Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:16 pm
Post subject: Re: ROTK: Yuck [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <20031217144822.23043.00000755 DeleteThis @mb-m27.aol.com>,
triad3204 DeleteThis @aol.com (Justin Bacon) wrote:
> Sinadamor wrote:
> >Me, I'm going to see the movie and try to see it just as a film where
> >any resmblance to Tolkien will be incidental. It may be a decent
> >fantasy film, in and of itself.
>
> I'm going to see it again this evening (because I already had tickets to go
> with a second group of friends, otherwise I would probably not see the film
> again in the theaters). I may enjoy it more this time, because my
> subconscious
> won't be keeping a tally of the changes (I had a similar experience with FOTR
> -- but I enjoyed FOTR the first time, so it's hard to say).
>
> And things like the "flaming Denethor runs the length of the city" were
> certainly *more* painful because I knew that all Jackson had to do was film
> what was on the page to avoid such a cornball sequence. But even if I had
> seen
> such a sequence in a film which had nothing to do with Tolkien at all, it
> would
> have been painfully corny (or deliberately hilarious if the movie had been a
> comedy).
FOTR had the dwarf-tossing-across-the-chasm-in-the-stairs
TTT had Aragorn-going-over-the-cliff
ROTK had flaming-Denethor-going-over-the-cliff
Maybe PJ should avoid precipes in his next adaptation?
--
Lord Jubjub, ruler of the slithy toves.
If you want to contact me, remember I am a LORD. >> Stay informed about: ROTK: Yuck |
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Since: Mar 01, 2004
Posts: 36
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(Msg. 21) Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 11:35 am
Post subject: Re: ROTK: Yuck [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Flame of the West wrote:
>> How can the very same production have reduced itself to such utter ruin as
THE
>> RETURN OF THE KING?
>
>Actually, it was the most faithful of the three theatrical versions.
>I enjoyed it.
Gah? What definition of "faithful" are you using, exactly?
Justin Bacon
triad3204 RemoveThis @aol.com >> Stay informed about: ROTK: Yuck |
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Since: Mar 02, 2004
Posts: 73
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(Msg. 22) Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 3:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Yuck [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Justin Bacon" <triad3204.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031217060906.14309.00001033@mb-m14.aol.com...
> Just got back from a midnight showing of ROTK.
>
> Yuck. Just... yuck.
>
> My patience was utterly spent by the time we were "treated" to a flaming
> Denethor running from his pyre across the entire length of the city before
> plunging over the wall into the battlefield below. That utter tripe simply
> killed the last of my lingering respect for Peter Jackson.
>
> How did this go so wrong? FELLOWSHIP OF THE RINGS was a masterpiece of
film. It
> was faithful as an adaptation. It was powerful as a piece of cinema. It is
> arguably the finest fantasy film ever produced. It was, in short, about as
> close to perfect as one could hope for.
>
> How can the very same production have reduced itself to such utter ruin as
THE
> RETURN OF THE KING?
>
>
Actually it was an incredible triumph of filmmaking. Easily the best of the
three films and one of the best movies ever made. If you didn't like it,
well, de gustibus, but frankly I can't help but laugh at your hyperbolic
overreaction. >> Stay informed about: ROTK: Yuck |
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Since: Mar 01, 2004
Posts: 36
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(Msg. 23) Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Yuck [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Rick wrote:
>Actually it was an incredible triumph of filmmaking. Easily the best of the
>three films and one of the best movies ever made.
Nah. Flaming Denethor is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to this
movie's stupid, cornball scenes. That, alone, would shove the movie pretty far
down the "All-Time" list, and doesn't even begin to address its other problems.
I'm seriously considering the use of the term "flaming Denethors" to describe
all stupid, cornball scenes in films.
Justin Bacon
triad3204.TakeThisOut@aol.com >> Stay informed about: ROTK: Yuck |
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Since: Mar 02, 2004
Posts: 73
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(Msg. 24) Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 11:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Yuck [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Justin Bacon" <triad3204 DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031218171419.15133.00001239@mb-m04.aol.com...
> Rick wrote:
> >Actually it was an incredible triumph of filmmaking. Easily the best of
the
> >three films and one of the best movies ever made.
>
> Nah.
Yeah. Sorry, but I am not going to agree with you because IMHO you're
simply, stupendously wrong. >> Stay informed about: ROTK: Yuck |
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Since: Mar 01, 2004
Posts: 36
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(Msg. 25) Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 11:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Yuck [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Rick wrote:
>"Justin Bacon" <triad3204.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20031218171419.15133.00001239@mb-m04.aol.com...
>> Rick wrote:
>> >Actually it was an incredible triumph of filmmaking. Easily the best of
the
>> >three films and one of the best movies ever made.
>>
>> Nah.
>
>Yeah. Sorry, but I am not going to agree with you because IMHO you're
>simply, stupendously wrong.
So you like the flaming Denethor sequences? Or did you deliberately snip that
out in order to disingenously suggest that I gave a one word reply to your
message?
Justin Bacon
triad3204.TakeThisOut@aol.com >> Stay informed about: ROTK: Yuck |
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Since: Mar 02, 2004
Posts: 73
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(Msg. 26) Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 11:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Yuck [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Justin Bacon" <triad3204.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031218182833.15133.00001245@mb-m04.aol.com...
> Rick wrote:
> >"Justin Bacon" <triad3204.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:20031218171419.15133.00001239@mb-m04.aol.com...
> >> Rick wrote:
> >> >Actually it was an incredible triumph of filmmaking. Easily the best
of
> the
> >> >three films and one of the best movies ever made.
> >>
> >> Nah.
> >
> >Yeah. Sorry, but I am not going to agree with you because IMHO you're
> >simply, stupendously wrong.
>
> So you like the flaming Denethor sequences?
I thought it was all right. Certainly more palatable than sitting there,
watching him blacken like a mahi mahi fillet. Not the best sequence in the
movie, and possibly one of the worst, but even the worst moments were few
enough and acceptable enough to hardly register, given the vast majority of
excellent moments. >> Stay informed about: ROTK: Yuck |
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Since: Mar 01, 2004
Posts: 36
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(Msg. 27) Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:01 am
Post subject: Re: Yuck [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Rick wrote:
>> >Yeah. Sorry, but I am not going to agree with you because IMHO you're
>> >simply, stupendously wrong.
>>
>> So you like the flaming Denethor sequences?
>
>I thought it was all right.
Let me get this straight: You are explicitly confirming that think bad,
cornball sequences are "all right"?
Or are you just further confirming that you didn't read my original post before
hitting the Reply butotn and flaming away?
Justin Bacon
triad3204.DeleteThis@aol.com >> Stay informed about: ROTK: Yuck |
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Since: Nov 17, 2003
Posts: 10
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(Msg. 28) Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:22 am
Post subject: Re: Yuck [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <20031218200151.12363.00001230.TakeThisOut@mb-m05.aol.com>,
triad3204.TakeThisOut@aol.com (Justin Bacon) wrote:
> Rick wrote:
> >> >Yeah. Sorry, but I am not going to agree with you because IMHO you're
> >> >simply, stupendously wrong.
> >>
> >> So you like the flaming Denethor sequences?
> >
> >I thought it was all right.
>
> Let me get this straight: You are explicitly confirming that think bad,
> cornball sequences are "all right"?
>
> Or are you just further confirming that you didn't read my original post
> before
> hitting the Reply butotn and flaming away?
>
> Justin Bacon
> triad3204.TakeThisOut@aol.com
Are you saying that 'bad and cornball' are a proven assertion? Do those
terms lead to a reasoned discussion of the pros and cons? Why is it
when someone says something positive about one scene or about the movie
in general you jump in and anounce that some other bit of the film is
bad?
How about this for an assertion: You are not expressing genuine
opinions about the film. You are just trolling. >> Stay informed about: ROTK: Yuck |
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Since: Mar 02, 2004
Posts: 73
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(Msg. 29) Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:28 am
Post subject: Re: Yuck [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Justin Bacon" <triad3204 DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031218200151.12363.00001230@mb-m05.aol.com...
> Rick wrote:
> >> >Yeah. Sorry, but I am not going to agree with you because IMHO you're
> >> >simply, stupendously wrong.
> >>
> >> So you like the flaming Denethor sequences?
> >
> >I thought it was all right.
>
> Let me get this straight: You are explicitly confirming that think bad,
> cornball sequences are "all right"?
>
I explained what I thought and you snipped it. Deal with what I said or
ignore me. >> Stay informed about: ROTK: Yuck |
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Since: Mar 01, 2004
Posts: 36
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(Msg. 30) Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 2:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Yuck [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Rick wrote:
>> Let me get this straight: You are explicitly confirming that think bad,
>> cornball sequences are "all right"?
>
>I explained what I thought and you snipped it. Deal with what I said or
>ignore me.
Whatever. You've marked yourself as easily ignorable now, given the fact that
you have failed to engage in any kind of discussion multiple times now.
Justin Bacon
triad3204.TakeThisOut@aol.com >> Stay informed about: ROTK: Yuck |
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| Related Topics: | Yuck! Could be worse! - Did y'all read about how JK Rowling is suing to prevent someone from publishing a reference work about Harry Potter? Thank Eru that the Tolkien estate never thought that way! -- FotW Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.
ROTK EXT ED - Hi all, I apologise if this has been asked before - but I've been away for a bit. Does anyone know the release date for the extended edition of the ROTK and is their any information on what scenes have been extended/altered from the cinematic release...
Just seen ROTK - I came out with tears in my eyes. This film was superbly executed and I wouldn't have it any other way. My only gripe two gripes was no scouring of the shire. No face off between Gandalf and Saruman. I hope this is addressed in the EE. -- ChrisC -..
ROTK: Where are the Easterlings? - I noticed that the Easterlings we saw entering the black gate in the TT movie are never seen again and are not in ROTK. Why did PJ show them in TT if he didn't intend to use them later in ROTK? What role did the Easterlings play in the ROTK book, if....
Any news on RotK:EE? - This DVD title was originally supposed to be out in August but it's been put off to December as has been discussed. Is there any news on it, does anyone know if it's ready yet? Are there any scenes we definitely know will be in there? BR, -JJ |
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