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Bug-Eyed Churl

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Since: Jun 19, 2008
Posts: 3



(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:42 pm
Post subject: Obama Gave In Already
Archived from groups: alt>angst, others (more info?)

"Obama Forgoes Public Funds in First for Major Candidate"

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/20/us/politics/20obamacnd.html

Either he's too rich himself to care (which is unlikely), or he's such
a good whore for corporate interests that he doesn't need /government/
money, or he (as I suspect) is just a shill who's not supposed to win,
part of "some vast right-wing conspiracy" to edge McCain in sideways
while at the same time "building voter confidence in our democracy."

Remember what I said about the old Trotskyites going Neocon a couple
Presidential administrations ago? I thought their old ORIGINAL stated
goal, of reforming the Union of Sadistically Stalinist Republics, was
a fine and dandy thing, and of course I agreed that neo-colonialism is
a Bad Thing, but the reason the SWP/USA lost out to the RCP Maoists is
they had a) like the Maoists, very little working-class participation
but b) unlike the Maoists came across as stodgy old professors; given
their built-in deficiencies, the Trots should have done throughout the
1970s and '80s what the ISO did in the early '90s instead of focusing
on Entryism into a Major Party or two. I'd have applauded subverting
the Republican Party if the goal was to weaken it, but what I suspect
is a long-term world-wide strategy of using the Republican war-mongers
to sneakily further the old Leninist "One World Government" agenda has
an upsetting effect on my tummy. I can see that Globalism might be a
two-edged sword, and that "spreading democracy" at gunpoint might be
another way of Permanently Revoluting, but once NGOs like Blackwater
horn in the masses in the impacted countries won't get much benefit.

If the Trots must engage in _right-wing_ conspiracies, can't y'all do
it someplace else instead? Like, oh, Russia? And/or why not do some
Entryism into the RCP and its RIM? *They* just scored in Nepal.

Sheesh.


D.

--
"He not busy being born is busy dying."
..................................................................
(C) 2008 'TheDavid^TM' | All Rights Reserved World-Wide Always

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Sarcastic American!

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Since: Jun 19, 2008
Posts: 1



(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Obama Gave In Already [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

http://www.neilyoung.com/lwwtoday/videolinks/videolink_354.html

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John Holmes

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Since: Jun 19, 2008
Posts: 1



(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Obama Gave In Already [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Mr. Bug Eyes here misunderstands what's going on in the
regular political world almost as badly as he misunderstands what goes
on in the far left.

Like it or not, Obama's gonna be the next president. The fix is in.
That's why he is getting so much more money than anyone else, which
is why he don't need any bucks from the taxpayers. When
looking at politics in America, always follow the money.

Obama is the ideal president to have in office for the powers that be
when the s**t hits the fan. McCain's purpose is to make Obama look
good.

-jh-

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008, Bug-Eyed Churl wrote:

>
> "Obama Forgoes Public Funds in First for Major Candidate"
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/20/us/politics/20obamacnd.html
>
> Either he's too rich himself to care (which is unlikely), or he's such
> a good whore for corporate interests that he doesn't need /government/
> money, or he (as I suspect) is just a shill who's not supposed to win,
> part of "some vast right-wing conspiracy" to edge McCain in sideways
> while at the same time "building voter confidence in our democracy."
>
> Remember what I said about the old Trotskyites going Neocon a couple
> Presidential administrations ago? I thought their old ORIGINAL stated
> goal, of reforming the Union of Sadistically Stalinist Republics, was
> a fine and dandy thing, and of course I agreed that neo-colonialism is
> a Bad Thing, but the reason the SWP/USA lost out to the RCP Maoists is
> they had a) like the Maoists, very little working-class participation
> but b) unlike the Maoists came across as stodgy old professors; given
> their built-in deficiencies, the Trots should have done throughout the
> 1970s and '80s what the ISO did in the early '90s instead of focusing
> on Entryism into a Major Party or two. I'd have applauded subverting
> the Republican Party if the goal was to weaken it, but what I suspect
> is a long-term world-wide strategy of using the Republican war-mongers
> to sneakily further the old Leninist "One World Government" agenda has
> an upsetting effect on my tummy. I can see that Globalism might be a
> two-edged sword, and that "spreading democracy" at gunpoint might be
> another way of Permanently Revoluting, but once NGOs like Blackwater
> horn in the masses in the impacted countries won't get much benefit.
>
> If the Trots must engage in _right-wing_ conspiracies, can't y'all do
> it someplace else instead? Like, oh, Russia? And/or why not do some
> Entryism into the RCP and its RIM? *They* just scored in Nepal.
>
> Sheesh.
>
>
> D.
>
> --
> "He not busy being born is busy dying."
> .................................................................
> (C) 2008 'TheDavid^TM' | All Rights Reserved World-Wide Always
>
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Jonah Thomas

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Since: Jun 19, 2008
Posts: 7



(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Obama Gave In Already [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Bug-Eyed Churl <thedavid.RemoveThis@null.invalid> wrote:

> Either he's too rich himself to care (which is unlikely), or he's such
> a good whore for corporate interests that he doesn't need /government/
> money, or he (as I suspect) is just a shill who's not supposed to win,
> part of "some vast right-wing conspiracy" to edge McCain in sideways
> while at the same time "building voter confidence in our democracy."

When Clinton was still running didn't you say she was going to split the
party as badly as she could, take it right up to the convention and then
sulk off, so Obama wouldn't win and McCain would get it?

If you're going to do conspiracy theory, why not go whole hog? Let's say
the candidates are all working for the same secret conspiracy, but they
campaign for real -- their place in the lineup of conspiracy shills
depends on how good a show they provide. Kind of like -- professional
wrestling?

And let's say the conspiracy has been running the country for a real
long time. In the '20's they were worried about communism, and they
tried beating the unions into submission -- just produce enough of
everything for their own lifestyle and let the rest go hang. They owned
the country. But then WWII came up, and they saw the chance to step in
just in time for the nazis and russian communists to exhaust each other.
And after that the russians got nukes. They gave us years of prosperity
because they wanted a happy middle class that wouldn't go communist
while they outspent the russians militarily. Now the USSR is gone and
they're ready to go back to beating the middle class into submission.
Get rid of government spending that benefits lower or middle class
people -- they can fend for themselves and they might as well be
grateful for a chance to work for a good master.

So, maybe Obama wins and he announces that Bush's people have stolen so
much we're poor now. Mostly they've covered their tracks but we punish a
few strays who don't actually have much to give back. We have to accept
a lot of sacrifices to get things running again. Maybe we get a lot of
low-paying jobs making stuff to export. Kind of like -- china. We cut
way back on social services. We don't get the health care we want
because we just plain can't pay for it. We cut back on social security
because we have to. Do we cut back the military? Sure, but less than the
rest. We cut back on fancy weapons systems but don't cut back the pay
much -- so the military is one of the best jobs around if you can get
in. Police get pretty good pay too, and getting through some years as a
cop gives you a big in to get into the army and vice versa. Our
experience in iraq gives us a solid base for dealing with lower-class
subversives in the USA.

Much easier for the public to accept it when it's their Hope, Obama
doing it than McCain or even worse Bush in his third term.

Is that bleak enough for you? I can do bleaker but it takes some special
assumptions.
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Bug-Eyed Churl

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Since: Jun 19, 2008
Posts: 3



(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Obama Gave In Already [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In alt.angst Jonah Thomas <jethomas5.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:

> If you're going to do conspiracy theory, why not go whole hog? Let's say
> the candidates are all working for the same secret conspiracy, but they
> campaign for real -- their place in the lineup of conspiracy shills
> depends on how good a show they provide. Kind of like -- professional
> wrestling?

You mean you think "professional wrestlers" really DO wrestle? Have
you ever seen a "professional wrestling" show? It's all pre-scripted.


> And let's say the conspiracy has been running the country for a real
> long time.

Yes, let's say that. That's exactly what I think.


D.

--
"He not busy being born is busy dying."
..................................................................
(C) 2008 'TheDavid^TM' | All Rights Reserved World-Wide Always
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Jonah Thomas

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Since: Jun 19, 2008
Posts: 7



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Obama Gave In Already [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Bug-Eyed Churl <thedavid DeleteThis @null.invalid> wrote:
> Jonah Thomas <jethomas5 DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > If you're going to do conspiracy theory, why not go whole hog? Let's
> > say the candidates are all working for the same secret conspiracy,
> > but they campaign for real -- their place in the lineup of
> > conspiracy shills depends on how good a show they provide. Kind of
> > like -- professional wrestling?
>
> You mean you think "professional wrestlers" really DO wrestle? Have
> you ever seen a "professional wrestling" show? It's all pre-scripted.

They aren't trying to really hurt each other. Do those moves in earnest
and somebody would get killed. But surely they're trying to upstage
each other sometimes. Surely there are rewards for the wrestler
audiences love (or love to hate). Boring wrestlers might not last well.

Same with politicians. even if they take a dive they don't want their
voters to lose faith.
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