Organ Banks

In article <4779862C.A25A9EB3 RemoveThis @pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>, Tim Bruening wrote:
> All we need is time for medical scientists to solve the above problems.
>
The likelihood is that by the time there is good progress on the
general problems of tissue typing and rejection, maintenance of organs in
"Organ Banks", and the other problems with Larry's rhetorical device of
the "Organ Banks" ... then at least a significant proportion of the
world's population could afford to have banked their own <various tissue>
stem cells in a form that could be grown into tissue for repair within a
week or two in the event of a traumatic injury. Modern intensive care is
good enough that you've got to be really badly messed up (or very old) to
not be able to survive a couple of weeks on a machine.
For prophylactic work (e.g. replacing your wobbly heart valve, and
you might as well replace half the islets of Langherans while you're in
there and give me a new bladder sphincter too) the tissues would be
prepared from the stem cells in time for the planned operation.

--
Aidan Karley,
Written at Fri, 04 Jan 2008 23:24 GMT, but posted later.
"Please turn your monitors off when you leave the building. Not only
does it save power, but the flickering of the monitors annoys the
pterosaur."
 >> Stay informed about: Organ Banks 

In article <4779F869.158BEF3C DeleteThis @pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>, Tim Bruening wrote:
> What if you are prejudiced against artificial organs?
>
You die early, or spend more of your wealth on unnecessarily
expensive health care than your competitors, leading to the starvation
and death of your grandchildren (in which case, you might as well not
have bothered with the operation in the first case.

--
Aidan Karley,
Written at Fri, 04 Jan 2008 23:33 GMT, but posted later.
"Please turn your monitors off when you leave the building. Not only
does it save power, but the flickering of the monitors annoys the
pterosaur."
 >> Stay informed about: Organ Banks 

Aidan Karley <name1_name2 DeleteThis @email.provider.invalid> wrote:
>Tim Bruening wrote:
>> All we need is time for medical scientists to solve the above problems.
>
> The likelihood is that by the time there is good progress on the
>general problems of tissue typing and rejection, maintenance of organs in
>"Organ Banks", and the other problems with Larry's rhetorical device of
>the "Organ Banks" ... then at least a significant proportion of the
>world's population could afford to have banked their own <various tissue>
>stem cells in a form that could be grown into tissue for repair within a
>week or two in the event of a traumatic injury. Modern intensive care is
>good enough that you've got to be really badly messed up (or very old) to
>not be able to survive a couple of weeks on a machine.

Remember, after all, what the plot device driving the events of A Gift From
Earth _was_...

Dave "and we here in reality may get that sort of thing before the problems
of real-organ transplants are fully solved" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd DeleteThis @vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 >> Stay informed about: Organ Banks 

In article <flmu2p$mhv$1@panix3.panix.com>, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
> How much
> will rich yuppies pay for bottled cometary water guaranteed to have
> never been in any organism's urine or feces?
>
I can already see the roughneck astronaut opening the vent valve
on his space suit. "Don't eat the yellow snow."

--
Aidan Karley,
Written at Sat, 05 Jan 2008 13:27 GMT, but posted later.
"Please turn your monitors off when you leave the building. Not only
does it save power, but the flickering of the monitors annoys the
pterosaur."
 >> Stay informed about: Organ Banks 

Jon Schild wrote:

> Tim Bruening wrote:
> > What do you think of the idea in Larry Niven's Known Space universe of
> > removing the organs of executed criminals for the organ banks?
>
> The matching problem is so considerable, and keeping separated organs
> alive until they can be inserted in someone is so difficult, that at the
> present it is completely impractical. Thus I do not believe that anyone
> is stealing and selling organs from cadavers in hospitals, or that some
> other country is routinely harvesting organs for future transplant.

The above problems exacerbate organ shortages. Obtaining organs from
executed criminals could greatly ease organ shortages so that the
matching and keeping separated organs alive problems don't matter as
much.
 >> Stay informed about: Organ Banks 

trigonometry1972 DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote:
>
> Tim Bruening wrote:
>> trigonometry1972 DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Dec 29, 1:34 am, Tim Bruening <tsbru... DeleteThis @pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>>>> What do you think of the idea in Larry Niven's Known Space universe of
>>>> removing the organs of executed criminals for the organ banks?
>>> It is said that the "red" Chinese sometimes do this already.
>>> And I'd assume they prefer political opponents/dissidents to
>>> criminals proper.
>>>
>>> Criminals proper are often from poorer social classes that
>>> are more likely to be infected with both known diseases
>>> and emerging diseases. Known diseases would include
>>> HIV, Hep C and B and emerging diseases
>>> might include prion diseases, Chagas or perhaps
>>> some new retrovirus not in the commonly tested for diseases.
>>>
>>> The proposal reminds me of an SF story were
>>> the condemned man is waiting to be taken apart for
>>> his organs due to his crime of crossing the street without
>>> the go ahead signal.
>> The Larry Niven story in question had the man awaiting execution for running
>> red lights and speeding. That's where I got the idea!
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> It has been decades since I read the story.
> So I can't be sure it is the same story.

Story is "The Jigsaw Man".
spoiler:
<http://variety-sf.blogspot.com/2007/11/larry-niven-jigsaw-man-chilling.html>
 >> Stay informed about: Organ Banks 

trigonometry1972.DeleteThis@gmail.com wrote:

> On Dec 29, 1:34 am, Tim Bruening <tsbru....DeleteThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> > What do you think of the idea in Larry Niven's Known Space universe of
> > removing the organs of executed criminals for the organ banks?
>
> It is said that the "red" Chinese sometimes do this already.
> And I'd assume they prefer political opponents/dissidents to
> criminals proper.
>
> Criminals proper are often from poorer social classes that
> are more likely to be infected with both known diseases
> and emerging diseases. Known diseases would include
> HIV, Hep C and B and emerging diseases
> might include prion diseases, Chagas or perhaps
> some new retrovirus not in the commonly tested for diseases.
>
> The proposal reminds me of an SF story were
> the condemned man is waiting to be taken apart for
> his organs due to his crime of crossing the street without
> the go ahead signal.

In Larry Niven's Known Space Universe, dolphins are known to be
sentient. "World of Ptavvs" even mentions a trial involving a dolphin
murder victim and 3 dolphin witnesses in the late 21st century. By that
time, dismantling criminals for the organ banks was already popular. Do
the dolphins have organ banks? If so, can dolphins be dismantled for
the dolphin organ banks?
 >> Stay informed about: Organ Banks 

On 30 Dec 2007, 19:47, "Mike Schilling" <mscottschill... DeleteThis @hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Bill Snyder wrote:
> > On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 07:21:44 GMT, "Mike Schilling"
> > <mscottschill... DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Bill Snyder wrote:
> >>> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 19:42:05 -0800, Erik Max Francis
> >>> <m... DeleteThis @alcyone.com>
> >>> wrote:
>
> >>>> David Lesher wrote:
>
> >>>>> Sorta like the phone taps under Patriot Act, ehh? First they
> >>>>> were
> >>>>> ONLY for nasty terrorists [and of course, anyone alleged to have
> >>>>> talked to same, like Brandon Mayfield...]. Then we moved to
> >>>>> marijuana smokers....
>
> >>>> Uh, and when exactly did that happen?  Want to try to back up
> >>>> such
> >>>> a
> >>>> laughable claim?
>
> >>>>> Soon, we'll sweep up all the No Turn on Red & jaywalker types...
>
> >>>> You do realize that a slippery slope argument is a logical
> >>>> fallacy,
> >>>> right?
>
> >>> Yeah, you let people get away with the Slippery Slope, and the
> >>> next
> >>> thing you know you've got ad hominems all over the place.
>
> >> And then they'll start citing silly Larry Niven stories as
> >> prophecies.
>
> > And generalizing from one example, too, I'll bet.
>
> Everyone does that.

Then 72% of them will start making up statistics on the spot.

Cheers,
Nigel.
 >> Stay informed about: Organ Banks 

In article <478333D8.62B3B5FA RemoveThis @pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>, Tim Bruening wrote:
> Do
> the dolphins have organ banks? If so, can dolphins be dismantled for
> the dolphin organ banks?
>
In the little that is written about the Dolphins (by NLarry at
least, there's more in MKW), there's probably not enough information to
sensibly consider the question. At a gut level, I'll suspect that the
Dolphins would take a seemingly "unsympathetic" view of illnesses that
would benefit from transplants. That comment in (IIRC) Ptavvs that a
Dolphin might consider it "educational" to bite the fin off another
Dolphin speaks to me of a very different culture.

(I'm leaving aside NLarry's false presumption that most
illnesses would benefit from transplantation of the single organ
affected. I'm also capitalising Dolphin for the same reason that we
capitalise Armenian or Kzin - the Known Space Dolphins don't seem to be
the same organisms as the group of small toothed cetaceans that we call
dolphins. NLarry doesn't address how "his" Dolphins related to the
other presumed-intelligent species in their environment. Did they, for
example, fear orcas, and murder porpoises?)

--
Aidan Karley,
Written at Tue, 08 Jan 2008 14:06 GMT, but posted later.
"Please turn your monitors off when you leave the building. Not only
does it save power, but the flickering of the monitors annoys the
pterosaur."
 >> Stay informed about: Organ Banks 

On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 06:06:30 -0800 (PST), ncwaite RemoveThis @hotmail.com wrote:

>On 30 Dec 2007, 19:47, "Mike Schilling" <mscottschill... RemoveThis @hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>> Bill Snyder wrote:
>> > On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 07:21:44 GMT, "Mike Schilling"
>> > <mscottschill... RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> Bill Snyder wrote:
>> >>> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 19:42:05 -0800, Erik Max Francis
>> >>> <m... RemoveThis @alcyone.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>>
>> >>>> David Lesher wrote:
>>
>> >>>>> Sorta like the phone taps under Patriot Act, ehh? First they
>> >>>>> were
>> >>>>> ONLY for nasty terrorists [and of course, anyone alleged to have
>> >>>>> talked to same, like Brandon Mayfield...]. Then we moved to
>> >>>>> marijuana smokers....
>>
>> >>>> Uh, and when exactly did that happen?  Want to try to back up
>> >>>> such
>> >>>> a
>> >>>> laughable claim?
>>
>> >>>>> Soon, we'll sweep up all the No Turn on Red & jaywalker types...
>>
>> >>>> You do realize that a slippery slope argument is a logical
>> >>>> fallacy,
>> >>>> right?
>>
>> >>> Yeah, you let people get away with the Slippery Slope, and the
>> >>> next
>> >>> thing you know you've got ad hominems all over the place.
>>
>> >> And then they'll start citing silly Larry Niven stories as
>> >> prophecies.
>>
>> > And generalizing from one example, too, I'll bet.
>>
>> Everyone does that.
>
>Then 72% of them will start making up statistics on the spot.

But there's only a 40% chance of that.

>Cheers,
>Nigel.

Jerry Brown
--
A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)

<http://www.jwbrown.co.uk>
 >> Stay informed about: Organ Banks 

On Tue, 08 Jan 2008 18:55:34 GMT, Jerry Brown
<jerry.TakeThisOut@jwbrown.co.uk.RemoveThisBitToReply> wrote:

>On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 06:06:30 -0800 (PST), ncwaite.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>On 30 Dec 2007, 19:47, "Mike Schilling" <mscottschill....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>> Bill Snyder wrote:
>>> > On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 07:21:44 GMT, "Mike Schilling"
>>> > <mscottschill....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >> Bill Snyder wrote:
>>> >>> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 19:42:05 -0800, Erik Max Francis
>>> >>> <m....TakeThisOut@alcyone.com>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >>>> David Lesher wrote:
>>>
>>> >>>>> Sorta like the phone taps under Patriot Act, ehh? First they
>>> >>>>> were
>>> >>>>> ONLY for nasty terrorists [and of course, anyone alleged to have
>>> >>>>> talked to same, like Brandon Mayfield...]. Then we moved to
>>> >>>>> marijuana smokers....
>>>
>>> >>>> Uh, and when exactly did that happen?  Want to try to back up
>>> >>>> such
>>> >>>> a
>>> >>>> laughable claim?
>>>
>>> >>>>> Soon, we'll sweep up all the No Turn on Red & jaywalker types...
>>>
>>> >>>> You do realize that a slippery slope argument is a logical
>>> >>>> fallacy,
>>> >>>> right?
>>>
>>> >>> Yeah, you let people get away with the Slippery Slope, and the
>>> >>> next
>>> >>> thing you know you've got ad hominems all over the place.
>>>
>>> >> And then they'll start citing silly Larry Niven stories as
>>> >> prophecies.
>>>
>>> > And generalizing from one example, too, I'll bet.
>>>
>>> Everyone does that.
>>
>>Then 72% of them will start making up statistics on the spot.
>
>But there's only a 40% chance of that.

Fortunately, 89.6327% of them will give the game away by claiming a
clearly spurious precision.

--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank.]
 >> Stay informed about: Organ Banks 

Donation Automatic In UK

LONDON - Britain's prime minister is calling for a sweeping change to the
country's organ donation system, but the plan isn't sitting well with
patients' rights groups.

In an opinion piece in The Sunday Telegraph, Gordon Brown calls for an
"opt-out" system for organ donation, in which consent is assumed unless
people explicitly register disapproval.

Brown writes that forcing people to opt out of donating would "close the
aching gap between the potential benefits of transplant" and the "limits
imposed" by the current system.

....


http://www.ktiv.com/News/index.php?ID=21500



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A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz DeleteThis @nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
 >> Stay informed about: Organ Banks 

David Lesher wrote:
> Donation Automatic In UK
>
> LONDON - Britain's prime minister is calling for a sweeping change to the
> country's organ donation system, but the plan isn't sitting well with
> patients' rights groups.
>
> In an opinion piece in The Sunday Telegraph, Gordon Brown calls for an
> "opt-out" system for organ donation, in which consent is assumed unless
> people explicitly register disapproval.
>
> Brown writes that forcing people to opt out of donating would "close the
> aching gap between the potential benefits of transplant" and the "limits
> imposed" by the current system.
>
> ...
>
>
> http://www.ktiv.com/News/index.php?ID=21500
>
Before everyone gets too excited, it is *exactly* the same as the
existing system in Spain.

Cheers,
Gary B-)

--
______________________________________________________________________________
Armful of chairs: Something some people would not know
whether you were up them with or not
- Barry Humphries
 >> Stay informed about: Organ Banks