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Organ Banks

 
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Aidan Karley

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Since: Sep 10, 2007
Posts: 29



(Msg. 31) Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:36 am
Post subject: Re: Organ Banks [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>sf>written, others (more info?)

In article <wNc3JRhz68iHFwwb.DeleteThis@meden.invalid>, Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
> According to radio news reports here the permission of the family (next
> of kin?) is still required.
>
It's closer to the "required request" system that was under
discussion for a while. viz : the doctors treating someone who is
to-all-intents-and-purposes dead MUST ask the next of kin, if available,
for permission to remove any usable organs from their body. "Their body"
obviously referring to the body in the bed, not the body sobbing in the
chair next to the machine that goes "ping". The body of a deceased person
belongs to their next of kin, not to the deceased person (how can a
deceased person own property?), and not to the state. Which is why "living
wills", donor cards, etc have always been no more than a guideline in
Britain.
Someone is obviously chewing over the idea of assigning the
ownership of the meat to the state, but thinks that it would be a
politically "difficult" sale.
Veering back to Known Space, I don't recall it having been
explicitly mentioned, but it is implicit in the whole "Organ Banks" issue
that on death one's body becomes the property of the state. Can anyone
remember this being mentioned (with respect to Earth ; I do recall it
being explicit in the mind of the Implementation boss in AGfE)?

--
Aidan Karley,
Written at Tue, 15 Jan 2008 07:21 GMT, but posted later.
"Please turn your monitors off when you leave the building. Not only does
it save power, but the flickering of the monitors annoys the pterosaur."

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Michael Stemper

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Since: Jan 15, 2008
Posts: 9



(Msg. 32) Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Organ Banks [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <fmgas3$tp$2@reader2.panix.com>, David Lesher writes:

>Donation Automatic In UK
>
>LONDON - Britain's prime minister is calling for a sweeping change to the
>country's organ donation system, but the plan isn't sitting well with
>patients' rights groups.
>
>In an opinion piece in The Sunday Telegraph, Gordon Brown calls for an
>"opt-out" system for organ donation, in which consent is assumed unless
>people explicitly register disapproval.

I believe that this is a good time to mention Harry Harrison's short
story, "The Ghoul Squad", which portrays a society with an "opt-out"
requirement.

Of course, since organs only have a limited shelf-life, you need to have
your evidence of having opted out with you when you snuff it.

--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
2 + 2 = 5, for sufficiently large values of 2

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James Kuyper

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Since: Nov 01, 2007
Posts: 13



(Msg. 33) Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:57 am
Post subject: Re: Organ Banks [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Aidan Karley wrote:
> In article <wNc3JRhz68iHFwwb DeleteThis @meden.invalid>, Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
>> According to radio news reports here the permission of the family (next
>> of kin?) is still required.
>>
> It's closer to the "required request" system that was under
> discussion for a while. viz : the doctors treating someone who is
> to-all-intents-and-purposes dead MUST ask the next of kin, if available,
> for permission to remove any usable organs from their body. "Their body"
> obviously referring to the body in the bed, not the body sobbing in the
> chair next to the machine that goes "ping". The body of a deceased person
> belongs to their next of kin, not to the deceased person (how can a
> deceased person own property?), and not to the state. ...

I'm no lawyer, but as I understand the law here in the US, people who
die continue in some sense to be the owner of their estates even after
their death. Their estates don't become someone else's property until
the probate process has been completed (with some exceptions, such as
for property titled as being owned by more than one person as joint
tenants with rights of survivorship). What happens to their Estates is
controlled by their wills, if any, and is otherwise governed by the laws
of intestacy. Their estates don't belong to the state, and they don't
belong to the executors of their estates.

I would expect that the bodies of the deceased, if treated as property,
are considered to also be part of the estate. However, I'm not at all
sure that the law covers bodies by treating them as property.

> ... Which is why "living
> wills", donor cards, etc have always been no more than a guideline in
> Britain.

I think that they have somewhat more legal authority in the US, but I'm
not sure about that.

> Veering back to Known Space, I don't recall it having been
> explicitly mentioned, but it is implicit in the whole "Organ Banks" issue
> that on death one's body becomes the property of the state. ...

It seemed to me that this is true only for condemned criminals, and this
is considered to be legally comparable to the fact that, after you pay a
fine, the money you've paid is now the property of the state.
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Michael Stemper

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Since: Jan 15, 2008
Posts: 9



(Msg. 34) Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Organ Banks [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>sf>written, others (more info?)

In article <f576e842-4ff9-4d71-b074-20873c286f6b RemoveThis @m34g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, David E. Siegel writes:
>On Jan 16, 6:57=A0am, James Kuyper <jameskuy... RemoveThis @verizon.net> wrote:
>> Aidan Karley wrote:

>> > ... Which is why "living
>> > wills", donor cards, etc have always been no more than a guideline in
>> > Britain.
>>
>> I think that they have somewhat more legal authority in the US, but I'm
>> not sure about that.
>
>Yes. Instructions in a will or other properly executed document are
>generally binding in such matters under US law. (Many "Donor cards"
>are not properly binding documets, however: not noterized, etc)

What good would it do to put bodily disposal instructions in your
will? As I understand it, a will's not generally read for weeks
after death; long after a body would have been disposed of.

>Yes, only convicted criminals and volunteer doners go into Niven's
>organ banks. The logic used in the Niven stories ought to have implied
>a law mandating that at natural death all organs are harvested, but it
>seems pretty clear that no such law was in effect in that fictional
>world. Another inconsistancy here.

Shocked, shocked I am to hear of an inconsistency in Known Space.

ObSFW: The Man-Kzin Wars short story that's an homage to _Casablanca_.

>There was a Harry Harrison story, set in a near future, about this. In

>I am pretty sure that this was included in his collection _Prime
>Number_ and looking at the contents of that in the ISFDB the title is
>probably "The Ghoul Squad"

Yup.

--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
Time flies like an arrow.
Fruit flies like a banana.
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