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External
Since: Jan 11, 2005
Posts: 15
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:49 am
Post subject: Outsiders or Puppeteers?
Archived from groups: alt>books>larry-niven (more info?)
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It's pretty clear that the Pak didn't build the ring*. Who does that
leave? You can posit as many undiscovered species as you like, but it's
much more fun to work with the material provided.
I reckon it was the Outsiders. Read more here:
http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/niven/tnuctipunplot.html
A rival theory by "Phil G" on the larryniven-l list proposes that the
Puppeteers built it as an experiment in interspecies relations, and
goes as far as suggesting that the Pak are a Puppeteer breeding
experiment gone wrong.
Any other thoughts? I am aware that both these theories are
preposterous, but hey, it's a GIANT RING spinning AROUND A STAR!
Preposterous is not an obstacle.
Phil Hibbs.
*Yes, I know, but Proserpina *had* to be lying |
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External
Since: Nov 08, 2004
Posts: 26
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:21 am
Post subject: Re: Outsiders or Puppeteers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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news:1126784993.668109.246100@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> It's pretty clear that the Pak didn't build the ring*. Who does that
> leave?
The Grog controlled some Pak and made them make the Ringworld, of
course.
Karl Johanson |
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Since: Jan 11, 2005
Posts: 15
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:31 am
Post subject: Re: Outsiders or Puppeteers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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>The Grog controlled some Pak and made them make the Ringworld,
>of course.
LOL! Why isn't the ring full of Grogs though? Maybe they got bored with
it and went somewhere else.
Pak: "But... but... we built you..."
Grog: "WE DON'T EVEN WANT IT NOW. MAKE US A BIG SPHERE INSTEAD."
Yes, I like it.
Phil Hibbs. >> Stay informed about: Outsiders or Puppeteers? |
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Since: Jan 11, 2005
Posts: 15
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:33 am
Post subject: Re: Outsiders or Puppeteers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Jul 07, 2005
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:36 am
Post subject: Re: Outsiders or Puppeteers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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snarks.DeleteThis@gmail.com wrote:
> It's pretty clear that the Pak didn't build the ring*. Who does that
> leave? You can posit as many undiscovered species as you like, but it's
> much more fun to work with the material provided.
My theory, since Engineers, has been that a group of severely
breederless Pak built the ring in an effort to engineer something like
the ghoul-pak - i.e., Pak with an incentive to protect all breeders,
whether or not their own. I've always thought that's what Niven was
going for, at any rate. >> Stay informed about: Outsiders or Puppeteers? |
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Since: May 14, 2005
Posts: 63
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:00 am
Post subject: Re: Outsiders or Puppeteers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <1126784993.668109.246100 DeleteThis @g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
wrote:
> I reckon it was the Outsiders. Read more here:
>
It's too hot. The Outsiders may have got someone to build it for
them, which begs more questions.
> A rival theory by "Phil G" on the larryniven-l list proposes that the
> Puppeteers built it as an experiment in interspecies relations, and
>
The home-living sane Puppeteers, or the alternative world of mad
Puppeteers living in deep space and plotting the extermination of the
society that cast them out?
--
Aidan Karley,
Aberdeen, Scotland,
Location: +57°10' , -02°09' (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
Written at Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:53 +0100 >> Stay informed about: Outsiders or Puppeteers? |
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Since: Dec 30, 2005
Posts: 103
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Outsiders or Puppeteers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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<snarks.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1126881224.568742.54640@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >It's too hot. The Outsiders may have got someone to build it
>>for them, which begs more questions.
>
> So they built machines to build the ring.
>
> Phil Hibbs.
>
Why would the Outsiders build a place that they couldn't use?
--
*
Paul Howard
*
Drak Bibliophile (Bane Of Book Rustlers), Yahoo Id DrakBibliophile
*
Sometimes The Dragon Wins! (That's why there are still Dragons Around)
[Polite Dragon Smile]
* >> Stay informed about: Outsiders or Puppeteers? |
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Since: May 14, 2005
Posts: 63
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:00 am
Post subject: Re: Outsiders or Puppeteers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <gjEWe.358656$xm3.77956@attbi_s21>, Paul Howard wrote:
> Why would the Outsiders build a place that they couldn't use?
>
Machinery space.
Power collection.
Schadenfreund (think of the stir it's caused among the hot life
; and have you never seen people wiggling a stick in an ant's nest?).
--
Aidan Karley,
Aberdeen, Scotland,
Location: +57°10' , -02°09' (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
Written at Sat, 17 Sep 2005 10:20 +0100 >> Stay informed about: Outsiders or Puppeteers? |
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Since: Dec 30, 2005
Posts: 103
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Outsiders or Puppeteers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Aidan Karley" <doIlookDAFTenoughTOpost.RemoveThis@validEMAILaddressTOa.NEWS.group>
wrote in message
news:VA.00000903.5b13bb22@validemailaddresstoa.news.group...
> In article <gjEWe.358656$xm3.77956@attbi_s21>, Paul Howard wrote:
>> Why would the Outsiders build a place that they couldn't use?
>>
> Machinery space.
> Power collection.
> Schadenfreund (think of the stir it's caused among the hot life
> ; and have you never seen people wiggling a stick in an ant's nest?).
>
> --
> Aidan Karley,
> Aberdeen, Scotland,
> Location: +57°10' , -02°09' (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
> Written at Sat, 17 Sep 2005 10:20 +0100
>
Machinery space and/or Power collection place that just happens to be
livable for Humans/Kzin/Puppeteers?
--
*
Paul Howard
*
Drak Bibliophile (Bane Of Book Rustlers), Yahoo Id DrakBibliophile
*
Sometimes The Dragon Wins! (That's why there are still Dragons Around)
[Polite Dragon Smile]
* >> Stay informed about: Outsiders or Puppeteers? |
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Since: May 14, 2005
Posts: 63
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:00 am
Post subject: Re: Outsiders or Puppeteers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <bfUWe.121204$084.73995@attbi_s22>, Paul Howard wrote:
> Machinery space and/or Power collection place that just happens to be
> livable for Humans/Kzin/Puppeteers?
>
Over-trained monkeys barely capable of sweeping the floor of the
workshop. Cue "Sorceror's Apprentice" theme an footage from 'Fantasia'.
--
Aidan Karley,
Aberdeen, Scotland,
Location: +57°10' , -02°09' (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
Written at Sun, 18 Sep 2005 00:20 +0100 >> Stay informed about: Outsiders or Puppeteers? |
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Since: Nov 08, 2004
Posts: 26
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Outsiders or Puppeteers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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<snarks.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >The Grog controlled some Pak and made them make the Ringworld,
>>of course.
>
> LOL! Why isn't the ring full of Grogs though?
I assumed there were some on the 'map of Down' in one of the Ringworld
oceans. Maybe there are a bunch all over the ring.
> Maybe they got bored with it and went somewhere else.
>
> Pak: "But... but... we built you..."
> Grog: "WE DON'T EVEN WANT IT NOW. MAKE US A BIG SPHERE INSTEAD."
>
> Yes, I like it.
: )
Karl Johanson >> Stay informed about: Outsiders or Puppeteers? |
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Since: Nov 08, 2004
Posts: 26
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Outsiders or Puppeteers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Paul Howard" <ppaulshoward.DeleteThis@insightbb.com> wrote
> <snarks.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote
>> >It's too hot. The Outsiders may have got someone to build it
>>>for them, which begs more questions.
>>
>> So they built machines to build the ring.
>>
>> Phil Hibbs.
>>
> Why would the Outsiders build a place that they couldn't use?
For similar reasons to why most people buy exercise equipment.
Karl Johanson >> Stay informed about: Outsiders or Puppeteers? |
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Since: Jan 11, 2005
Posts: 15
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:22 am
Post subject: Re: Outsiders or Puppeteers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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