Pottermania

The message <1gajpmb.9io94t102hsnmN.DeleteThis@ip176.sns.du.radix.net>
from fusina.DeleteThis@radix.net (Elizabeth Fusina) contains these words:

 > My daughter has caught it. Nine years old, she started the first book
 > two weeks ago, and is almost ready to start number four, this while
 > going to school and getting all her homework and chores done. So is
 > there anything I need to know about number four before she reads it?

Only that it's extremely well-written, superbly constructed and very,
very good; not quite as good as 'Prisoner of Azkaban', maybe, but PoA is
a masterpiece

I
 > have heard that either four or five is a bit heavy going,

Scary, possibly. Heavy going, certainly not.


SPOILERS










Towards the end of 'Goblet of Fire' there's a scene where Harry is
captured by Lord Voldemort; his chum is killed, and he only just
escapes. Rowling has been criticised in some quarters for making this
scene unnecessarily violent and traumatic, and Giving Kids Nightmares.
As far as I'm concerned, these charges are unfounded (actually, IMHO,
it's the weakest and least convincing scene in the book); my daughter,
who read it first at age nine and a bit and who has the courage and
mental fortitude of a very small field-vole, wasn't in the least
distressed thereby. Compared to Rumpelstiltskin, or the story of the
three billy-goats gruff, it's bread-and-milk innocuous. However, if your
daughter is of an exceedingly delicate or timid disposition, you may
care to flick through it first.

'Order of the Phoenix' is darker, true; a character in whom we've
invested quite a bit of emotional capital dies (or seems to; but see
under Gandalf's Syndrome, Sheridan's Leap, et al) and his death prompts
our young hero to hear the call of the Dark Side. In terms of violence,
trauma &c it's no worse than Book 4.

My guess is that if your daughter got through the climax of 'Chamber of
Secrets' without being emotionally scarred and actionably traumatised,
she'll have no problems with 4 and 5.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Tom Holt <lemming.co.TakeThisOut@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

 > The message <1gajpmb.9io94t102hsnmN.TakeThisOut@ip176.sns.du.radix.net>
 > from fusina.TakeThisOut@radix.net (Elizabeth Fusina) contains these words:
 >
  > > My daughter has caught it. Nine years old, she started the first book
  > > two weeks ago, and is almost ready to start number four, this while
  > > going to school and getting all her homework and chores done. So is
  > > there anything I need to know about number four before she reads it?
 >
 > Only that it's extremely well-written, superbly constructed and very,
 > very good; not quite as good as 'Prisoner of Azkaban', maybe, but PoA is
 > a masterpiece
 >
 > I
  > > have heard that either four or five is a bit heavy going,
 >
 > Scary, possibly. Heavy going, certainly not.

 > My guess is that if your daughter got through the climax of 'Chamber of
 > Secrets' without being emotionally scarred and actionably traumatised,
 > she'll have no problems with 4 and 5.

Got through and kept going actually. Well, she has all the timidity of
the average moose, and all the fear of a Mama grizzly whose cubs are
being threatened, so I expect she won't have any problems. (An example
of this is that upon learning that sometimes small fluffy animals die so
she can eat meat did not turn her into a vegetarian. No, she asked for
seconds of the lamb.) She is much more afraid of me than of anything on
the page or on the screen (err, wise on her part, really), she used to
watch Hercules and Xena with me, usually laughing at the various
monsters--"Giggle, giggle, that isn't very scary!" she would say...then
again, she was usually right on that series. But she has read things
that gave me the cold grue with nary a flicker of nightmare. Hmm, when
she finishes OotP maybe I'll start her on Alexander's Prydain series
while waiting for number six. I expect she will quite like that.

Thanks to you and Tim for your excellent input, I shan't worry then. And
I shall read the books one of these days. (I've been waiting until the
seventh comes out-I was saying until the series is done, but there are
now rumors that she may be writing more than that, so...)

Elizabeth<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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The message <1gajyru.b1zm581v59cx8N DeleteThis @ip172.sns.du.radix.net>
from fusina DeleteThis @radix.net (Elizabeth Fusina) contains these words:


 > she used to
 > watch Hercules and Xena with me, usually laughing at the various
 > monsters--"Giggle, giggle, that isn't very scary!" she would say...then
 > again, she was usually right on that series.

Indeed.


But she has read things
 > that gave me the cold grue with nary a flicker of nightmare.

They do, these days.

When I was that age, it wasn't explicitly gory or monster-infested stuff
that scared me; it was implied horrors that snagged in my imagination.
For some reason I can't explain, Edward Lear's Plum-Pudding Flea scared
the living daylights out of me for years, to the point where I couldn't
go to sleep unless I had a spoon (the sight of which said beast cannot
abide) where I could get to it in a hurry.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Tom Holt <lemming.co.TakeThisOut@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

 > But she has read things
  > > that gave me the cold grue with nary a flicker of nightmare.
 >
 > They do, these days.
 >
 > When I was that age, it wasn't explicitly gory or monster-infested stuff
 > that scared me; it was implied horrors that snagged in my imagination.
 > For some reason I can't explain, Edward Lear's Plum-Pudding Flea scared
 > the living daylights out of me for years, to the point where I couldn't
 > go to sleep unless I had a spoon (the sight of which said beast cannot
 > abide) where I could get to it in a hurry.

Have you ever read Lloyd Alexander's Prydain series? I had nightmares
for weeks after reading "The Black Cauldron", and it wasn't until I
finished the series that they finally went away. Since I was borrowing
it from the library, and they didn't have them all on the shelf and I
had to do a request for them...well, you can probably imagine the rest.
I never had a desire to go hunting for deer after that either. Cernunnos
was far too real for me.

Elizabeth<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:35:07 -0500, fusina DeleteThis @radix.net (Elizabeth
Fusina) wrote:

 >Tom Holt <lemming.co DeleteThis @zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
 >
  >> But she has read things
   >> > that gave me the cold grue with nary a flicker of nightmare.
  >>
  >> They do, these days.
  >>
  >> When I was that age, it wasn't explicitly gory or monster-infested stuff
  >> that scared me; it was implied horrors that snagged in my imagination.
  >> For some reason I can't explain, Edward Lear's Plum-Pudding Flea scared
  >> the living daylights out of me for years, to the point where I couldn't
  >> go to sleep unless I had a spoon (the sight of which said beast cannot
  >> abide) where I could get to it in a hurry.
 >
 >Have you ever read Lloyd Alexander's Prydain series? I had nightmares
 >for weeks after reading "The Black Cauldron", and it wasn't until I
 >finished the series that they finally went away. Since I was borrowing
 >it from the library, and they didn't have them all on the shelf and I
 >had to do a request for them...well, you can probably imagine the rest.
 >I never had a desire to go hunting for deer after that either. Cernunnos
 >was far too real for me.
 >
 >Elizabeth

I've got a strange take on what kids read. My theory is that if it's
too much for them, they'll stop on their own. I remember getting very
disgusted with "Little Women" when I was about in 3rd grade. What the
heck were they thinking about letting Beth die like that, they
shouldn't put things like that in a kid's book and I left it alone for
a while and later went back and Louisa May Alcott is still one of my
favorite children's authors.

I didn't read Prydain until I was taking kiddie lit, but Andrew went
through them rapidly at the appropriate age. Regarding Harry &
company, I found the "teenage angst" more annoying than any of the
dementors or other ghoulies. There's a bit of the "cuties" boy/girl
stuff going on in 4 &5 but nothing like the "hot & heavy" that you can
get in some YA stuff.

From what you've written about your daughter, she's got a good head on
her shoulders and would feel comfortable talking over any of the
nasties with you. So, let her have a reading feast---they'll always
publish more books. Thank the Good Lord for that and other small
blessing, as I sit here sipping the good stuff and recovering from one
of my favorite patrons.

We had over 400 people through the door today during the 5 hours we
were open. One of them is about 6th grade level and she has an
endearing habit of coming over and asking us to recommend books for
her to read. She loves to read and enjoys taking on whole series at a
time. So we all take turns digging out favorites old and new and then
she roots through them, carefully choosing this week's allotment. If
she's not careful, she might end up in Library School some day.

Jackie<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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<anon2765.TakeThisOut@firedrake.org> wrote:

> >>From what you've written about your daughter, she's got a good head on
> >her shoulders and would feel comfortable talking over any of the
> >nasties with you. So, let her have a reading feast---they'll always
> >publish more books. Thank the Good Lord for that and other small
> >blessing, as I sit here sipping the good stuff and recovering from one
> >of my favorite patrons.
>
> Have a TS.

Err, have two.

> >We had over 400 people through the door today during the 5 hours we
> >were open. One of them is about 6th grade level and she has an
> >endearing habit of coming over and asking us to recommend books for
> >her to read. She loves to read and enjoys taking on whole series at a
> >time. So we all take turns digging out favorites old and new and then
> >she roots through them, carefully choosing this week's allotment. If
> >she's not careful, she might end up in Library School some day.
>
> And as we all know, librarians rule the world really.

Well, of course. I should have gone to library school myself. Except I
don't want to rule the world, just my little corner of it.

> Elizabeth, on the subject of books to offer after the Potter bit has been
> devoured (not, as I gather, all that demanding, people seem to gallop
> through them in a day or two at age ten) how about Diana Wynne Jones?
> That's the real stuff Potter imitates, and it's probably harder work, but
> it's a heck of a lot more rewarding as books to go back to later in life.
> There are real-world things in DWJ's work that seem from reports to be a
> bit lacking in Potter, stuff like characters and plot and thought about
> what is going on, and not everything being clear-cut -- and her villains
> tend to have reasons for being that way beyond just "but that's what
> villains *do*, they're, well, villainous, even if it is getting them
> nowhere and even they are not too stupid to see this". She tends to take
> the fantasy tropes and turn them on their heads and demonstrate how
> unrealistic they are, but with so much humour that it isn't nasty.

She isn't getting them until I finish reading them. They're mine I tell
you, mine, mine, MINE! And the same goes for the Diane Duane books.
Which I am reading very slowly-amazing how working full time eats into
reading time. And crafting time, and cooking meals time, and nap
time...but I am having fun. And I figured out the perfect way to
discipline one little boy. He is a bit big for his age, and as a result
doesn't realize when he runs over another kid it can hurt. So when he
gets too rough inside, I make him sit down beside me and read me a book.
It calms him down quite nicely, and he has much more self control for
about half an hour after. Outside, I make him run around the shed. Gives
him an outlet for all the energy. The day he was most hyper I think he
ran around the shed some 24 times.

Elizabeth
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In <1gaol1r.is98pdhx1zeN.RemoveThis@ip175.sns.du.radix.net> Elizabeth wrote:

>I figured out the perfect way to
>discipline one little boy. He is a bit big for his age, and as a result
>doesn't realize when he runs over another kid it can hurt. So when he
>gets too rough inside, I make him sit down beside me and read me a book.
>It calms him down quite nicely, and he has much more self control for
>about half an hour after. Outside, I make him run around the shed. Gives
>him an outlet for all the energy. The day he was most hyper I think he
>ran around the shed some 24 times.

I salute you for two reasons. First, you used "discipline" in a very
proper sense there: not as "punish", but as "give a bit of discipline to",
which is the first step to the child learning self-discipline. Second,
when faced with a child wanting to rush around, instead of reaching for the
medic to prescribe calm-me-down drugs, you are saying, "Ok, here is
something I want you to do", and "Ok, go and work off some of that surplus
energy by running around the shed!" both of which are a great deal more
helpful chances are than doping the poor brat into a nice calm zombie.

Y'know, I think Kipling was on the right track when he suggested that a
cure for a child with the black dog on its shoulder was going out into the
garden: "Take a large hoe, and a shovel also, and dig till you gently
perspire". I wonder how many of the hyperactive children who give their
parents endless grief and end up on medication would benefit from that
prescription.

Whatever; my hat is off to you.

Beetle

Cartographer, Bombardier, Weather Witch and Village Storekeeper
Selling atonal apples, and amplified heat, and Pressed Rat's
collection of dog-legs and feet. Coffee mornings a speciality.
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<anon2765.DeleteThis@firedrake.org> wrote:

> I salute you for two reasons. First, you used "discipline" in a very
> proper sense there: not as "punish", but as "give a bit of discipline to",
> which is the first step to the child learning self-discipline. Second,
> when faced with a child wanting to rush around, instead of reaching for the
> medic to prescribe calm-me-down drugs, you are saying, "Ok, here is
> something I want you to do", and "Ok, go and work off some of that surplus
> energy by running around the shed!" both of which are a great deal more
> helpful chances are than doping the poor brat into a nice calm zombie.

Well, I have to admit that the former is infinitely preferable to the
latter, if only because it is much less expensive to have the child run
around than to purchase drugs. And I expect that humans in general need
to do a lot more running than is allowed at school, just based on the
amount of work it used to take to put food on the table. We are geared
for a great deal more than we get. And I am a great believer in children
having self discipline taught them, which is why I try to not punish but
rather redirect the energy into something a bit more socially
acceptable. But thank you for the compliments, I really try hard to be a
good influence on the children I meet.

> Y'know, I think Kipling was on the right track when he suggested that a
> cure for a child with the black dog on its shoulder was going out into the
> garden: "Take a large hoe, and a shovel also, and dig till you gently
> perspire". I wonder how many of the hyperactive children who give their
> parents endless grief and end up on medication would benefit from that
> prescription.

My kids love their gardens, and are slowly learning about weeding and
such, at 6 and 9 they are more interested in the various shapes leaves
and stems take than getting rid of unwanted vegetation. And Mum used to
send us out to rake when we got cranky, so the idea came from her
originally.

> Whatever; my hat is off to you.

Again, I thank you.

Elizabeth
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On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 08:43:48 -0500, fusina.DeleteThis@radix.net (Elizabeth
Fusina) wrote:

><anon2765.DeleteThis@firedrake.org> wrote:
>
>> >>From what you've written about your daughter, she's got a good head on
>> >her shoulders and would feel comfortable talking over any of the
>> >nasties with you. So, let her have a reading feast---they'll always
>> >publish more books. Thank the Good Lord for that and other small
>> >blessing, as I sit here sipping the good stuff and recovering from one
>> >of my favorite patrons.
>>
>> Have a TS.
>
>Err, have two.
>
Thanks, I need them, the lower back's doing it's nasty number on me
again.

>
>
>She isn't getting them until I finish reading them. They're mine I tell
>you, mine, mine, MINE! And the same goes for the Diane Duane books.
>Which I am reading very slowly-amazing how working full time eats into
>reading time. And crafting time, and cooking meals time, and nap
>time...but I am having fun. And I figured out the perfect way to
>discipline one little boy. He is a bit big for his age, and as a result
>doesn't realize when he runs over another kid it can hurt. So when he
>gets too rough inside, I make him sit down beside me and read me a book.
>It calms him down quite nicely, and he has much more self control for
>about half an hour after. Outside, I make him run around the shed. Gives
>him an outlet for all the energy. The day he was most hyper I think he
>ran around the shed some 24 times.
>
>
I think part of the trouble in schools today is that they don't seem
to understand that when kids don't get enough physical activity the
attention span goes down and mischief goes up. Back in the old days,
when farm kids did chores before walking to school, sitting down was a
relief---now kids do too much sitting and not enough running. And
heaven forbid they try another to physically taxing---people get hurt
playing "red rover". When Andrew was younger and getting antsy while
waiting for a table at a restaurant or when visiting, one of us
(usually Mike or his mom) would take him outside and time him running
around the house or up and down the sidewalk, after making certain
there was no one he could knock down---always worked.

Jackie
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<mjriley48.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Thanks, I need them, the lower back's doing it's nasty number on me
> again.

My back hurts sometimes, but I think lying on the floor on my stomach
while three kids bounce on my back is actually helping it. Although I
don't think I would recommend it as a therapy to follow. Perhaps it is
all the laughter that occurs during said activity.

> I think part of the trouble in schools today is that they don't seem
> to understand that when kids don't get enough physical activity the
> attention span goes down and mischief goes up. Back in the old days,
> when farm kids did chores before walking to school, sitting down was a
> relief---now kids do too much sitting and not enough running. And
> heaven forbid they try another to physically taxing---people get hurt
> playing "red rover". When Andrew was younger and getting antsy while
> waiting for a table at a restaurant or when visiting, one of us
> (usually Mike or his mom) would take him outside and time him running
> around the house or up and down the sidewalk, after making certain
> there was no one he could knock down---always worked.

Oh, we always made sure that there is a sidewalk in the vicinity of
restaurants that we visit with the kids. One person pays the check while
the other person escorts two children outside and runs them around until
they can sit still again.

There is a car commercial in the US with a guy watching his niece and
nephew. He drives them to a big hill and they all run up, then they go
to the beach and dig and build sandcastles, back to the big hill, off to
the health club for a round on the treadmill, and off home again, where
the parents are saying, in wonder, "I don't know how he does it," as
they carry two sleeping children away. Don't ask me which car, I am
being amused by the look on one childs face as she labors away at the
treadmill.

I also had a boss who literally had to get out and run several times a
day in order to be able to sit at his desk and program and write papers.

Elizabeth
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On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:24:30 -0500, fusina DeleteThis @radix.net (Elizabeth
Fusina) wrote:

><mjriley48 DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>There is a car commercial in the US with a guy watching his niece and
>nephew. He drives them to a big hill and they all run up, then they go
>to the beach and dig and build sandcastles, back to the big hill, off to
>the health club for a round on the treadmill, and off home again, where
>the parents are saying, in wonder, "I don't know how he does it," as
>they carry two sleeping children away. Don't ask me which car, I am
>being amused by the look on one childs face as she labors away at the
>treadmill.
>
One of the better commercials out there, can't really remember the car
either. But I had a funny with car commercials a while ago; I saw a
new car out on the road and pointed it out to Mike (who was driving,
as "That's one ugly car") and his reply was, "I thought you liked it,
you certainly enjoy the advertisement". It was the one with the older
gentleman giving a couple directions to a restaurant with things like,
"You'll pass a stinking dead fish" and " THere's a dog foaming at the
mouth"

Jackie
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