Pullman's CBE

Jane (lumley@purkiss.demon.co.uk) writes:

 >I see Philip Pullman has accepted a CBE.
 >
 >Is heaven no longer a republic, then? A monarchy, perhaps?
 >
 > don't think Milton or Blake would have done the same.....

I thought a CBE was just a general sort of honor, and accepting something like
that from the Queen was not such a big deal, just an outdated sort of ritual to
most people. Now, if he'd been given a seat in the House of Lords or something,
that would be different, seems to me, not that I know much about it.

In Milton or Blake's time, the monarchy would actually have had real power
(besides the power of money and influence, which is a separate matter really --
Milton for one certainly didn't refuse to deal with rich people!).

--Helen<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Pullman's CBE 

In <368W2ulxh08$EwAK@purkiss.demon.co.uk> Jane Lumley <lumley.TakeThisOut@purkiss.demon.co.uk> writes:

 >I see Philip Pullman has accepted a CBE.

 >Is heaven no longer a republic, then? A monarchy, perhaps?

 > don't think Milton or Blake would have done the same.....

Don't think Milton would have been offered the chance, unless Cromwell did
honors.


--
Deborah Stevenson
dstevens.TakeThisOut@OBSTACLESuiuc.edu
[eliminate OBSTACLES to email me]<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Pullman's CBE 

Deborah Stevenson wrote:

  >>I see Philip Pullman has accepted a CBE.
 >
  >>Is heaven no longer a republic, then? A monarchy, perhaps?
 >
  >>don't think Milton or Blake would have done the same.....
 >
 > Don't think Milton would have been offered the chance, unless Cromwell did
 > honors.

"All honorees are notified five weeks ahead; it give them a chance to
refuse, you know--"
"When did a civil servant last refuse an honor?"
"Well, I think there was someone in the Treasury who refused a knighthood."
"Really? When?"
"1496."
"Why?"
"He already had one."

(And then, of course, there's that other "Yes, Minister" joke Pullman
would be more specifically deserving of, but unfortunately he didn't get
a GCMG.)

Derek Janssen
djanss.TakeThisOut@rcn.com<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Pullman's CBE 

In Milton's time the monarchy had real powers? Now I am all in favour
of beheading the parasites but if it gives them real powers we might
have to think again
I was disgusted with Roger McGough when he took a gong from Thatcher
and prefer the attitude of Benjamin Zephaniah:
"Me? I thought, OBE me? Up yours, I thought. I get angry when I hear
that word "empire"; it reminds me of slavery, it reminds of thousands
of years of brutality, it reminds me of how my foremothers were raped
and my forefathers brutalised. It is because of this concept of empire
that my British education led me to believe that the history of black
people started with slavery and that we were born slaves, and should
therefore be grateful that we were given freedom by our caring white
masters. It is because of this idea of empire that black people like
myself don't even know our true names or our true historical culture.
I am not one of those who are obsessed with their roots, and I'm
certainly not suffering from a crisis of identity; my obsession is
about the future and the political rights of all people. Benjamin
Zephaniah OBE - no way Mr Blair, no way Mrs Queen. I am profoundly
anti-empire."

and John Cole's observation that it was all very well to be pleased
when someone gives you a badge when you are in the Boys Brigade but
grown ups should have more important things to do!



On 01 Jan 2004 00:06:26 GMT, hschinske DeleteThis @aol.com (H Schinske) wrote:

 >Jane (lumley@purkiss.demon.co.uk) writes:
 >
  >>I see Philip Pullman has accepted a CBE.
  >>
  >>Is heaven no longer a republic, then? A monarchy, perhaps?
  >>
  >> don't think Milton or Blake would have done the same.....
 >
 >I thought a CBE was just a general sort of honor, and accepting something like
 >that from the Queen was not such a big deal, just an outdated sort of ritual to
 >most people. Now, if he'd been given a seat in the House of Lords or something,
 >that would be different, seems to me, not that I know much about it.
 >
 >In Milton or Blake's time, the monarchy would actually have had real power
 >(besides the power of money and influence, which is a separate matter really --
 >Milton for one certainly didn't refuse to deal with rich people!).
 >
 >--Helen

*************************************
My webpage <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://user1951.tk" target="_blank">http://user1951.tk</a>
updated 16 11 2003
"People all over are dying
Politicians keep on lying
They spend our money on war
When we can't feed the poor!"<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Pullman's CBE 

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:06:41 +0000, Jane Lumley <lumley.TakeThisOut@purkiss.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

 >I see Philip Pullman has accepted a CBE.
 >
 >Is heaven no longer a republic, then? A monarchy, perhaps?
 >
 > don't think Milton or Blake would have done the same.....

Interesting - was such an honour ever offered to authors children's books of
more monarchist leanings, like C.S. Lewis or J.R.R. Tolkien?

And if so, did they accept?

Would it have made them "sirs"?



--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: hayesmstw.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com
Web: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.geocities.com/hayesstw/stevesig.htm" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/hayesstw/stevesig.htm</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/books.htm" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/books.htm</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Pullman's CBE 

In <3ff40c25.83042970 DeleteThis @news.saix.net> hayesmstw DeleteThis @hotmail.com (Steve Hayes) writes:

 >On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:06:41 +0000, Jane Lumley <lumley DeleteThis @purkiss.demon.co.uk>
 >wrote:

  >>I see Philip Pullman has accepted a CBE.
  >>
  >>Is heaven no longer a republic, then? A monarchy, perhaps?
  >>
  >> don't think Milton or Blake would have done the same.....

 >Interesting - was such an honour ever offered to authors children's books of
 >more monarchist leanings, like C.S. Lewis or J.R.R. Tolkien?

Tolkien was awarded the CBE.

 >And if so, did they accept?

I don't think rejecting honors was that common back then, though it could
just be that the rejections are more publicized now. They apparently send
out sort of a pre-award "would you accept?" inquiry, so it's not like the
honors are being spurned at the podium.

 >Would it have made them "sirs"?

No. He'd have had to be knighted for that.

--
Deborah Stevenson
dstevens DeleteThis @OBSTACLESuiuc.edu
[eliminate OBSTACLES to email me]<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Pullman's CBE 

"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ff40c25.83042970@news.saix.net...
 > On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:06:41 +0000, Jane Lumley
<lumley DeleteThis @purkiss.demon.co.uk>
 > wrote:
 >
  > >I see Philip Pullman has accepted a CBE.
  > >
  > >Is heaven no longer a republic, then? A monarchy, perhaps?
  > >
  > > don't think Milton or Blake would have done the same.....
 >
 > Interesting - was such an honour ever offered to authors children's books
of
 > more monarchist leanings, like C.S. Lewis or J.R.R. Tolkien?
 >
 > And if so, did they accept?
 >
 > Would it have made them "sirs"?
 >
 >
 >
 > --
C S Lewis was not awarded a CBE, but Tolkien was, in 1972. The award does
not make its recipient a knight, but a Commander of the British Empire.


Alan<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Pullman's CBE 

In article <3ff40c25.83042970.DeleteThis@news.saix.net> in
rec.arts.books.tolkien, Steve Hayes wrote:
 >On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:06:41 +0000, Jane Lumley <lumley.DeleteThis@purkiss.demon.co.uk>
 >wrote:
  >>I see Philip Pullman has accepted a CBE.

 >Interesting - was such an honour ever offered to authors children's books of
 >more monarchist leanings, like C.S. Lewis or J.R.R. Tolkien?
 >And if so, did they accept?

I don't know about Lewis, but Tolkien received a CBE in 1972. He
writes about it in Letter 334: "I was very deeply moved by my brief
meeting with the Queen, & our few words together. Quite unlike
anything that I had expected."

 >Would it have made them "sirs"?

No. Only the top grade of most orders (top two grades of some) count
as Knights. Tolkien was entitled to use the letters "CBE" after his
name, but he was still Mr Tolkien.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://OakRoadSystems.com" target="_blank">http://OakRoadSystems.com</a>
Tolkien FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://Tolkien.slimy.com" target="_blank">http://Tolkien.slimy.com</a> (Steuard Jensen's site)
Tolkien letters FAQ:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html" target="_blank">http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html</a>
FAQ of the Rings: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm" target="_blank">http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm</a>
Encyclopedia of Arda: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm" target="_blank">http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm</a>
more FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://oakroadsystems.com/tech/faqget.htm" target="_blank">http://oakroadsystems.com/tech/faqget.htm</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Pullman's CBE 

user1951.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com wrote:

 >In Milton's time the monarchy had real powers? Now I am all in favour
 >of beheading the parasites but if it gives them real powers we might
 >have to think again

Milton was born under one monarchy and died under another monarchy, no? The
Britannica says "How Milton escaped the scaffold at the Restoration is a
mystory now, and was a mystery at the time."

But I'll admit I hadn't thought about the "empire" part of CBE. That would give
me pause as well. Not that my country is any cleaner-handed, of course.

--Helen<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Pullman's CBE 

On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 18:18:55 -0000, "Alan Reynolds"
<alanandlouise.TakeThisOut@rochford78.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

 >C S Lewis was not awarded a CBE, but Tolkien was, in 1972. The award does
 >not make its recipient a knight, but a Commander of the British Empire.

Can you clarify which part of the British Empire Tolkien commanded and
what he commanded it to do



*************************************
My webpage <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://user1951.tk" target="_blank">http://user1951.tk</a>
updated 16 11 2003
"People all over are dying
Politicians keep on lying
They spend our money on war
When we can't feed the poor!"<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Pullman's CBE 

In <20040102003910.12131.00002167 RemoveThis @mb-m05.aol.com> hschinske RemoveThis @aol.com (H Schinske) writes:

 >user1951@hotmail.com wrote:

  >>In Milton's time the monarchy had real powers? Now I am all in favour
  >>of beheading the parasites but if it gives them real powers we might
  >>have to think again

 >Milton was born under one monarchy and died under another monarchy, no? The
 >Britannica says "How Milton escaped the scaffold at the Restoration is a
 >mystory now, and was a mystery at the time."

Right. And the monarchy he started under had considerably more power than
the one he died under, what with decapitation declining the office's
powers and all. It's thought that Andrew Marvell did some intervention
for Milton with Charles II, but Milton's work for the Cromwell
administration would have pretty much ruled him out from honors
consideration.

 >But I'll admit I hadn't thought about the "empire" part of CBE. That would give
 >me pause as well. Not that my country is any cleaner-handed, of course.

There was actually an interesting piece in the newspaper (I think it was
an AP piece, but I saw it in the Cleveland Plain Dealer) about those who
have refused honors. Zephaniah was one of the most public, but it's an
interesting list in general.


--
Deborah Stevenson
dstevens RemoveThis @OBSTACLESuiuc.edu
[eliminate OBSTACLES to email me]<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Pullman's CBE 

"Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown.TakeThisOut@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a5e7a3d4da89c1198baf8@news.odyssey.net...
 > In article <3ff40c25.83042970.TakeThisOut@news.saix.net> in
 > rec.arts.books.tolkien, Steve Hayes wrote:
  > >On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 22:06:41 +0000, Jane Lumley
<lumley.TakeThisOut@purkiss.demon.co.uk>
  > >wrote:
   > >>I see Philip Pullman has accepted a CBE.
 >
  > >Interesting - was such an honour ever offered to authors children's books
of
  > >more monarchist leanings, like C.S. Lewis or J.R.R. Tolkien?
  > >And if so, did they accept?
 >
 > I don't know about Lewis, but Tolkien received a CBE in 1972. He
 > writes about it in Letter 334: "I was very deeply moved by my brief
 > meeting with the Queen, & our few words together. Quite unlike
 > anything that I had expected."
 >
  > >Would it have made them "sirs"?
 >
 > No. Only the top grade of most orders (top two grades of some) count
 > as Knights. Tolkien was entitled to use the letters "CBE" after his
 > name, but he was still Mr Tolkien.
 >
And one suspects that, as the senior professor at Oxford, Tolkien could have
been knighted if he had published a bit more on philology and less on elves!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Pullman's CBE 

In article <bt6msj$afe$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> in
rec.arts.books.tolkien, John Jones wrote:
 >And one suspects that, as the senior professor at Oxford, Tolkien could have
 >been knighted if he had published a bit more on philology and less on elves!

Why? P.G. Wodehouse was knighted. It's hard to see why Tolkien was
not, unless perhaps the government were waiting to see whether his
work was just a fad.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://OakRoadSystems.com" target="_blank">http://OakRoadSystems.com</a>
Tolkien FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://Tolkien.slimy.com" target="_blank">http://Tolkien.slimy.com</a> (Steuard Jensen's site)
Tolkien letters FAQ:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html" target="_blank">http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html</a>
FAQ of the Rings: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm" target="_blank">http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm</a>
Encyclopedia of Arda: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm" target="_blank">http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm</a>
more FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://oakroadsystems.com/tech/faqget.htm" target="_blank">http://oakroadsystems.com/tech/faqget.htm</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Pullman's CBE