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Quoting song lyrics...what's the law?

 
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Rusty Wilson

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Since: Oct 05, 2006
Posts: 20



(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:40 pm
Post subject: Quoting song lyrics...what's the law?
Archived from groups: alt>publish>books (more info?)

Just on the off chance that there's still anybody here interested in the
book biz, and not cheap web hosting, hot smutty videos, or how to make a
million playing the UK lottery...

....I'm wondering about the laws regarding quoting previously published
works, like snippets of songs, within a book. If the source is clearly
cited within the text, do you still need permission to refer to them?

Any help sincerely appreciated. Thanks,

Rusty

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abzug

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Since: Jul 11, 2003
Posts: 240



(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Quoting song lyrics...what's the law? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <vNMyh.22153$yx6.18781@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
"Rusty Wilson" <RustyWilson3 RemoveThis @Earthlink.net> wrote:

> Just on the off chance that there's still anybody here interested in the
> book biz, and not cheap web hosting, hot smutty videos, or how to make a
> million playing the UK lottery...
>
> ...I'm wondering about the laws regarding quoting previously published
> works, like snippets of songs, within a book. If the source is clearly
> cited within the text, do you still need permission to refer to them?
>
> Any help sincerely appreciated. Thanks,
>
> Rusty

There are several highly professional book people
(authors/publishers/designers) who frequent this list. We tend to
respond only to questions related to book publishing.

Quoting previously published material without specific, written
permission is highly risky. There is a "fair use" exemption, but it's
rather vague and is decided (by the courts) on a case by case basis. To
get such a decision usually requires defending yourself against an
infringement suit with lawyers at $300 per hour and up... even if you
"win" you lose.

Snippets of songs or poems (other than the published title) are often
subject to strict control and must have permission. Modest (40 to 200
words) quotes of text material _might_ pass by without permission -- but
that depends, in part, on the generosity of the copyright owner in
enforcing their copyright. (There is no court decision establishing this
"guideline" but many large publishers use this in their instructionis to
authors. Of course, large publishers have lawyers on staff to protect
their interests.

So, the advice is to get permission, if you can. Otherwise, rewrite your
material to remove the "snipit"...

One example is Confessions of a Dope Dealer by Sheldon Norberg. The
story line included a segment where the author had been a "deadhead"
following the Grateful Dead from one concert venue to the next. The
author wanted to quote a phrase from one of the Greatful Dead's songs...
but, upon application for permission, the lawyers handling such matters
responded that "The Greatful Dead do not wish to be associated with drug
use" so the permission was denied. (You can consider the irony of this
lawyer's statement.) The work around was to remove the reference to the
specific phrase within the tune, and simply say, ... recalling the words
to "Dark Star", ... Since many who were likely to read the book would
have known the words, the reference was preserved without violating the
need for a permission.

As I alluded earlier, this is often a matter of how diligent a copyright
holder might be in enforcing their copyright. You may have heard of many
cases where no permission was received and "no problem" occurred for the
author. However, that's more a matter of good luck rather than good
management. A copyright holder may not become aware of an infringement
for _years_ ... but may sue for such infringement at anytime they become
aware of it. The damages are _substantial_ and can require you to
dispose of your complete inventory, plus pay all profits to the
copyright holder ... plus "statutory damages" (an amount set by a court)
and all the legal costs of the copyright holder. So, if I have made
myself clear, the downside of quoting material without permission is
severe and substantial.

You may not agree with this situation (I know I don't) but this is the
way the copyright law is currently written. If you object to it, please
write your congressional representatives and senators.

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user1617

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Since: Dec 21, 2004
Posts: 19



(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Quoting song lyrics...what's the law? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Rusty Wilson wrote:
> Just on the off chance that there's still anybody here interested in the
> book biz, and not cheap web hosting, hot smutty videos, or how to make a
> million playing the UK lottery...
>
> ...I'm wondering about the laws regarding quoting previously published
> works, like snippets of songs, within a book. If the source is clearly
> cited within the text, do you still need permission to refer to them?


Plagiarism and copyright violation are not the same. You can avoid
plagiarism by citing the source.

To avoid copyright violation, your use must either be "fair use" or
you must get permission from the rights holder. As I understand it, a
single line from a song can be so central to the value of that song,
that it may not be used fairly.

For more information, you might try looking at
http://www.ivanhoffman.com
or googling "fair use"

Marion Gropen
Gropen Associates, Inc.
www.GropenAssoc.com
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Rusty Wilson

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Since: Oct 05, 2006
Posts: 20



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:56 am
Post subject: Re: Quoting song lyrics; thanks, Stella and Marion [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

As you can imagine, not the answer I was hoping for, but I very much
appreciate your feedback. Better safe than sorry, I guess, and again,
thanks for your very comprehensive responses.

Rusty
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Richard Kanarek

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Since: Sep 04, 2006
Posts: 5



(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:52 am
Post subject: Re: Quoting song lyrics...what's the law? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Greetings,


Regarding your recent post:

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 21:40:43 GMT, "Rusty Wilson"
<RustyWilson3 DeleteThis @Earthlink.net> wrote:

>Just on the off chance that there's still anybody here interested in the
>book biz, and not cheap web hosting, hot smutty videos, or how to make a
>million playing the UK lottery...
[snip]

Oh, how I envy you. I use a quality Usenet provider (Supernews,
www.supernews.com) who insists upon filtering out all those spiffy
informative ads. When you're filthy rich, with a Johnson so large that
you must buy it its own seat on airplanes, you will think of me, won't
you?


Cordially,
Richard Kanarek

P.S. I think that, somewhere in the preceding prattle, there was a
useful bit of information. I could be wrong.
P.P.S. Aside from being a current customer of Supernews, and a former
customer of those bastards Earthlink, I have no affiliation to either
company.
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skipspamless3

External


Since: May 21, 2004
Posts: 13



(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:08 am
Post subject: Re: Quoting song lyrics...what's the law? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <9jm5t2h377mnimtfu8p0c3vkm1u99c101j.DeleteThis@4ax.com>, Richard
Kanarek <FirstInitialLastName.DeleteThis@Spamcop.net> wrote:

> Greetings,
>
>
> Regarding your recent post:
>
> On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 21:40:43 GMT, "Rusty Wilson"
> <RustyWilson3.DeleteThis@Earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >Just on the off chance that there's still anybody here interested in the
> >book biz, and not cheap web hosting, hot smutty videos, or how to make a
> >million playing the UK lottery...
> [snip]
>
> Oh, how I envy you. I use a quality Usenet provider (Supernews,
> www.supernews.com) who insists upon filtering out all those spiffy
> informative ads. When you're filthy rich, with a Johnson so large that
> you must buy it its own seat on airplanes, you will think of me, won't
> you?
>
>
> Cordially,
> Richard Kanarek
>
> P.S. I think that, somewhere in the preceding prattle, there was a
> useful bit of information. I could be wrong.
> P.P.S. Aside from being a current customer of Supernews, and a former
> customer of those bastards Earthlink, I have no affiliation to either
> company.

Earthlink? What do you expect from a company founded by $cientologists?

I'm a fan of Supernews, too, except for the fact that they make me pay
them. Bastards!

--
More permanent and genuine happiness is to be found in the sequestered walks of
connubial life than in the giddy rounds of promiscuous pleasure.

-- George Washington
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