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The REAL STORY From Iraq

 
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poguemidden

External


Since: Jun 03, 2004
Posts: 1469



(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:03 pm
Post subject: The REAL STORY From Iraq
Archived from groups: alt>books>tom-clancy, others (more info?)

Yep...

This is certainly NOT what the totally disreputable Mainstream Media,
such as The New York Times, The Los Angeles Times and CNN are telling
us.

DSH

"Jack Love" <jackxxloveyy.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:haej31lmo42gnkfk5o4bml4lq07ljnqsrd@4ax.com...

| I went to an AUSA dinner last night at the Ft. Hood Officers' Club
| to hear a speech by MG Pete Chiarelli, CG of the 1st Cav Div. He and
| most of the Div. have just returned from Iraq. Very informative and,
| surprise, the Mainstream Media (MSM) isn't telling the story. I was
| not there as a reporter, didn't take notes but I'll make some the
| points I remember that were interesting, surprising or generally stuff
| I had not heard before.
|
| It was not a speech per se. He just walked and talked, showed some
| slides and answered questions. Very impressive guy.
|
| 1. While units of the Cav served all over Iraq, he spoke mostly of
| Baghdad and more specifically Sadr City, the big slum on the eastern
| side of the Tigris River. He pointed out that Baghdad is, in
| geography, is about the size of Austin. Austin has 600,000 to 700,000
| people. Baghdad has 6 to7 million people.
|
| 2. The Cav lost 28 main battle tanks. He said one of the big
| lessons learned is that, contrary to doctrine going in, M1-A2s and
| Bradleys are needed, preferred and devastating in urban combat and he
| is going to make that point to the JCS next week while they are
| considering downsizing armor.
|
| 3. He showed a graph of attacks in Sadr City by month. Last
| Aug-Sep they were getting up to 160 attacks per week. During the last
| three months, the graph had flatlined at below 5 to zero per week.
|
| 4. His big point was not that they were "winning battles" to do
| this but that cleaning the place up, electricity, sewage, water were
| the key factors. He said yes they fought but after they started
| delivering services that the Iraqis in Sadr City had never had, the
| terrorist recruiting of 15 and 16 year olds came up empty.
|
| 5. The electrical "grid" is a bad, deadly joke. Said that driving
| down the street in a Hummv with an antenna would short out a whole
| block of apt. buildings. People do their own wiring and it was not
| uncommon for early morning patrols would find one or two people lying
| dead in the street, having been electrocuted trying to re-wire their
| own homes.
|
| 6. Said that not tending to a dead body in the Muslum culture
| never happens. On election day, after suicide bombers blew themselves
| up trying to take out polling places, voters would step up to the body
| lying there, spit on it, and move up in the line to vote.
|
| 7. Pointed out that we all heard from the media about the 100
| Iraqis killed as they were lined up to enlist in the police and
| security service. What the media didn't point out was that the next
| day there 300 lined up in the same place.
|
| 8. Said bin Laden and Zarqawi made a HUGE mistake when bin laden
| went public with naming Zarqawi the "prince" of al Quaeda in Iraq.
| Said that what the Iraqis saw and heard was a Saudi telling a
| Jordainan that his job was to kill Iraqis. HUGE mistake. It was one of
| the biggest factors in getting Iraqis who were on the "fence" to jump
| off on the side of the coalition and the new gov't.
|
| 9. Said the MSM was making a big, and wrong, deal out of the
| religious sects. Said Iraqis are incredibly nationalistic. They are
| Iraqis first and then say they are Muslum but the Shi'a - Sunni thing
| is just not that big a deal to them.
|
| 10. After the election the Mayor of Baghdad told him that the
| people of the region (Middle East) are joyous and the governments are
| nervous.
|
| 11. Said that he did not lose a single tanker truck carrying oil
| and gas over the roads of Iraq. Think about that. All the attacks we
| saw on TV with IEDs hitting trucks but he didn't lose one. Why? Army
| Aviation. Praised his air units and said they made the decision early
| on that every convoy would have helicopter air cover. Said aviators in
| that unit were hitting the 1,000 hour mark (sound familiar?). Said a
| convoy was supposed to head out but stopped at the gates of a compound
| on the command of an E6. He asked the SSG what the hold up was. E6
| said, "Air , sir." He wondered what was wrong with the air, not
| realizing what the kid was talking about. Then the AH-64s showed up
| and the E6 said, "That air sir." And then moved out.
|
| 12. Said one of the biggest problems was money and regs. There was
| a $77 million gap between the supplemental budget and what he needed
| in cash on the ground to get projects started. Said he spent most of
| his time trying to get money. Said he didn't do much as a "combat
| commander" because the the war he was fighting was a war at the squad
| and platoon level. Said that his NCOs were winning the war and it was
| a sight to behold.
|
| 13. Said that of all the money appropriated for Iraq, not a cent
| was earmarked for agriculture. Said that Iraq could feed itself
| completely and still have food for export but no one thought about it.
| Said the Cav started working with Texas A&M on ag projects and had
| special hybrid seeds sent to them through Jordan. TAM analyzed soil
| samples and worked out how and what to plant. Said he had an E7 from
| Belton, TX (just down the road from Ft. Hood) who was almost
| single-handedly rebuilding the ag industry in the Baghdad area.
|
| 14. Said he could hire hundreds of Iraqis daily for $7 to $10 a
| day to work on sewer, electric, water projects, etc. but that the
| contracting rules from CONUS applied so he had to have $500,000
| insurance policies in place in case the workers got hurt. Not kidding.
| The CONUS peacetime regs slowed everything down, even if they could
| eventually get waivers for the regs.
|
| There was more, lots more, but the idea is that you haven't heard
| any of this from anyone, at least I hadn't and I pay more attention
| than most.
|
| Great stuff. We should be proud. Said the Cav troops said it was
| ALL worth it on Jan. 30 when they saw how the Iraqis handled election
| day. Made them very proud of their service and what they had
| accomplished.
|
| It is great stuff.

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Ol'sarge

External


Since: Mar 21, 2005
Posts: 1



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:28 am
Post subject: Re: The REAL STORY From Iraq [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Mr. Hines,

Thank you for that post. Wish I could have seen the general speak.

<Said that his NCOs were winning the war and it was a sight to behold.>

Gee, imagine my surprise.

SMS USAF Ret

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Jack Love

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Since: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: 278



(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:00 pm
Post subject: Re: The REAL STORY From Iraq [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 21 Mar 2005 11:28:23 -0800, "Ol'sarge" <klick.DeleteThis@sanctum.com> wrote:

>Mr. Hines,
>
>Thank you for that post. Wish I could have seen the general speak.
>
><Said that his NCOs were winning the war and it was a sight to behold.>
>
>Gee, imagine my surprise.
>
>SMS USAF Ret

Hines didn't post it: he's been in my killfile for a long time.
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Robin T Cox

External


Since: Mar 21, 2005
Posts: 1



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:01 pm
Post subject: Re: The REAL STORY From Iraq [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

D. Spencer Hines wrote:
> Yep...
>
> This is certainly NOT what the totally disreputable Mainstream Media,
> such as The New York Times, The Los Angeles Times and CNN are telling
> us.
>
> DSH
>
> "Jack Love" <jackxxloveyy.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:haej31lmo42gnkfk5o4bml4lq07ljnqsrd@4ax.com...
>
> | I went to an AUSA dinner last night at the Ft. Hood Officers' Club
> | to hear a speech by MG Pete Chiarelli, CG of the 1st Cav Div. He and
> | most of the Div. have just returned from Iraq. Very informative and,
> | surprise, the Mainstream Media (MSM) isn't telling the story. I was
> | not there as a reporter, didn't take notes but I'll make some the
> | points I remember that were interesting, surprising or generally stuff
> | I had not heard before.
> |
> | It was not a speech per se. He just walked and talked, showed some
> | slides and answered questions. Very impressive guy.
> |
> | 1. While units of the Cav served all over Iraq, he spoke mostly of
> | Baghdad and more specifically Sadr City, the big slum on the eastern
> | side of the Tigris River. He pointed out that Baghdad is, in
> | geography, is about the size of Austin. Austin has 600,000 to 700,000
> | people. Baghdad has 6 to7 million people.
> |
> | 2. The Cav lost 28 main battle tanks. He said one of the big
> | lessons learned is that, contrary to doctrine going in, M1-A2s and
> | Bradleys are needed, preferred and devastating in urban combat and he
> | is going to make that point to the JCS next week while they are
> | considering downsizing armor.
> |
> | 3. He showed a graph of attacks in Sadr City by month. Last
> | Aug-Sep they were getting up to 160 attacks per week. During the last
> | three months, the graph had flatlined at below 5 to zero per week.
> |
> | 4. His big point was not that they were "winning battles" to do
> | this but that cleaning the place up, electricity, sewage, water were
> | the key factors. He said yes they fought but after they started
> | delivering services that the Iraqis in Sadr City had never had, the
> | terrorist recruiting of 15 and 16 year olds came up empty.
> |
> | 5. The electrical "grid" is a bad, deadly joke. Said that driving
> | down the street in a Hummv with an antenna would short out a whole
> | block of apt. buildings. People do their own wiring and it was not
> | uncommon for early morning patrols would find one or two people lying
> | dead in the street, having been electrocuted trying to re-wire their
> | own homes.
> |
> | 6. Said that not tending to a dead body in the Muslum culture
> | never happens. On election day, after suicide bombers blew themselves
> | up trying to take out polling places, voters would step up to the body
> | lying there, spit on it, and move up in the line to vote.
> |
> | 7. Pointed out that we all heard from the media about the 100
> | Iraqis killed as they were lined up to enlist in the police and
> | security service. What the media didn't point out was that the next
> | day there 300 lined up in the same place.
> |
> | 8. Said bin Laden and Zarqawi made a HUGE mistake when bin laden
> | went public with naming Zarqawi the "prince" of al Quaeda in Iraq.
> | Said that what the Iraqis saw and heard was a Saudi telling a
> | Jordainan that his job was to kill Iraqis. HUGE mistake. It was one of
> | the biggest factors in getting Iraqis who were on the "fence" to jump
> | off on the side of the coalition and the new gov't.
> |
> | 9. Said the MSM was making a big, and wrong, deal out of the
> | religious sects. Said Iraqis are incredibly nationalistic. They are
> | Iraqis first and then say they are Muslum but the Shi'a - Sunni thing
> | is just not that big a deal to them.
> |
> | 10. After the election the Mayor of Baghdad told him that the
> | people of the region (Middle East) are joyous and the governments are
> | nervous.
> |
> | 11. Said that he did not lose a single tanker truck carrying oil
> | and gas over the roads of Iraq. Think about that. All the attacks we
> | saw on TV with IEDs hitting trucks but he didn't lose one. Why? Army
> | Aviation. Praised his air units and said they made the decision early
> | on that every convoy would have helicopter air cover. Said aviators in
> | that unit were hitting the 1,000 hour mark (sound familiar?). Said a
> | convoy was supposed to head out but stopped at the gates of a compound
> | on the command of an E6. He asked the SSG what the hold up was. E6
> | said, "Air , sir." He wondered what was wrong with the air, not
> | realizing what the kid was talking about. Then the AH-64s showed up
> | and the E6 said, "That air sir." And then moved out.
> |
> | 12. Said one of the biggest problems was money and regs. There was
> | a $77 million gap between the supplemental budget and what he needed
> | in cash on the ground to get projects started. Said he spent most of
> | his time trying to get money. Said he didn't do much as a "combat
> | commander" because the the war he was fighting was a war at the squad
> | and platoon level. Said that his NCOs were winning the war and it was
> | a sight to behold.
> |
> | 13. Said that of all the money appropriated for Iraq, not a cent
> | was earmarked for agriculture. Said that Iraq could feed itself
> | completely and still have food for export but no one thought about it.
> | Said the Cav started working with Texas A&M on ag projects and had
> | special hybrid seeds sent to them through Jordan. TAM analyzed soil
> | samples and worked out how and what to plant. Said he had an E7 from
> | Belton, TX (just down the road from Ft. Hood) who was almost
> | single-handedly rebuilding the ag industry in the Baghdad area.
> |
> | 14. Said he could hire hundreds of Iraqis daily for $7 to $10 a
> | day to work on sewer, electric, water projects, etc. but that the
> | contracting rules from CONUS applied so he had to have $500,000
> | insurance policies in place in case the workers got hurt. Not kidding.
> | The CONUS peacetime regs slowed everything down, even if they could
> | eventually get waivers for the regs.
> |
> | There was more, lots more, but the idea is that you haven't heard
> | any of this from anyone, at least I hadn't and I pay more attention
> | than most.
> |
> | Great stuff. We should be proud. Said the Cav troops said it was
> | ALL worth it on Jan. 30 when they saw how the Iraqis handled election
> | day. Made them very proud of their service and what they had
> | accomplished.
> |
> | It is great stuff.
>

In similar vein, you might argue that 9/11 was worth it too. If all
those people had not been killed in the Twin Towers, there would have
been no invasion of Iraq, and the benefits of democracy and freedom
would never have been brought to that country.

But is there any limit to post-hoc justification of evil?
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Jack Love

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Since: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: 278



(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:02 pm
Post subject: Re: The REAL STORY From Iraq [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 12:01:59 GMT, Robin T Cox <nomail.TakeThisOut@nomail.com>
wrote:

>In similar vein, you might argue that 9/11 was worth it too. If all
>those people had not been killed in the Twin Towers, there would have
>been no invasion of Iraq, and the benefits of democracy and freedom
>would never have been brought to that country.
>
>But is there any limit to post-hoc justification of evil?

The real question is the justification for the tolerance of evil. It
would be nice if we didn't need some significant motivation to go out
and fix the problems. But we're human and therefore indolent by
preference like all successful predators: we only do what's absolutely
necessary.
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mcdonald1

External


Since: Dec 02, 2004
Posts: 27



(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:19 pm
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Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Jack Love wrote:

>
>
> The real question is the justification for the tolerance of evil. It
> would be nice if we didn't need some significant motivation to go out
> and fix the problems. But we're human and therefore indolent by
> preference like all successful predators: we only do what's absolutely
> necessary.
>
>


Exactly: look at the tolerance for Idi Amin, the Rwanda affair,
and the current affair in Darfur: nothing is being done. The
Kosovo intervention was a great aberration by European standards,
probably because it actually was inside Europe.

Doug McDonald
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fmccall

External


Since: Mar 03, 2004
Posts: 2393



(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:45 pm
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Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Robin T Cox <nomail DeleteThis @nomail.com> wrote:

:In similar vein, you might argue that 9/11 was worth it too. If all
:those people had not been killed in the Twin Towers, there would have
:been no invasion of Iraq, and the benefits of democracy and freedom
:would never have been brought to that country.
:
:But is there any limit to post-hoc justification of evil?

Apparently not, if you are any example....

<plonk>

--
You are
What you do
When it counts.
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Jack Love

External


Since: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: 278



(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:58 pm
Post subject: Re: The REAL STORY From Iraq [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>books>tom-clancy, others (more info?)

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 20:50:48 GMT, Lady Chatterly
<not-bot RemoveThis @catcher.in.the.rye> wrote:

>In article <ct9u319p340m17vc2rtc3mpk59nu2nk91l RemoveThis @4ax.com>
>Jack Love <jackxxloveyy RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>Hines didn't post it: he's been in my killfile for a long time.
>
>It is not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections,
>passions.

In one step you've earned the <flush> congrats, most don't achieve
that distinction.
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Akorps

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Since: Mar 01, 2005
Posts: 33



(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:11 pm
Post subject: Re: The REAL STORY From Iraq [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>books>tom-clancy, others (more info?)

Sounds like some of the lessons are:

1.Much more armor is needed, for urban combat, rather than less.

2. Helicopter air cover is needed for convoy protection.

3. The responsible officers need a large discretionary fund of many
$millions at their disposal, money being one of the most powerful
"weapons" available for fighting such an insurgency, if only to buy
goodwill from the locals.

The bureaucratic structure is too slow to respond to events on the
ground, so by allowing the responsible officers to have such a
discretionary fund at their disposal for immediate use, they may also
be able to use it to obtain what is needed by the troops immediately,
by purchasing it locally or from private companies, rather than having
to wait for the bureaucracy to respond.
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poguemidden

External


Since: Jun 03, 2004
Posts: 1469



(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:33 pm
Post subject: Re: The REAL STORY From Iraq [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>books>tom-clancy, others (more info?)

<G>

I agree with you absolutely.

However, the man who should get the credit for posting that and for
attending the session is:

JACK LOVE.

DSH

"Ol'sarge" <klick.DeleteThis@sanctum.com> wrote in message
news:1111433303.652734.49250@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

| Mr. Hines,
|
| Thank you for that post. Wish I could have seen the general speak.
|
| <Said that his NCOs were winning the war and it was a sight to
| behold.>
|
| Gee, imagine my surprise.
|
| SMS USAF Ret

| "Jack Love" <jackxxloveyy.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:haej31lmo42gnkfk5o4bml4lq07ljnqsrd@4ax.com...

| I went to an AUSA dinner last night at the Ft. Hood Officers' Club
| to hear a speech by MG Pete Chiarelli, CG of the 1st Cav Div. He and
| most of the Div. have just returned from Iraq. Very informative and,
| surprise, the Mainstream Media (MSM) isn't telling the story. I was
| not there as a reporter, didn't take notes but I'll make some the
| points I remember that were interesting, surprising or generally stuff
| I had not heard before.
|
| It was not a speech per se. He just walked and talked, showed some
| slides and answered questions. Very impressive guy.
|
| 1. While units of the Cav served all over Iraq, he spoke mostly of
| Baghdad and more specifically Sadr City, the big slum on the eastern
| side of the Tigris River. He pointed out that Baghdad is, in
| geography, is about the size of Austin. Austin has 600,000 to 700,000
| people. Baghdad has 6 to7 million people.
|
| 2. The Cav lost 28 main battle tanks. He said one of the big
| lessons learned is that, contrary to doctrine going in, M1-A2s and
| Bradleys are needed, preferred and devastating in urban combat and he
| is going to make that point to the JCS next week while they are
| considering downsizing armor.
|
| 3. He showed a graph of attacks in Sadr City by month. Last
| Aug-Sep they were getting up to 160 attacks per week. During the last
| three months, the graph had flatlined at below 5 to zero per week.
|
| 4. His big point was not that they were "winning battles" to do
| this but that cleaning the place up, electricity, sewage, water were
| the key factors. He said yes they fought but after they started
| delivering services that the Iraqis in Sadr City had never had, the
| terrorist recruiting of 15 and 16 year olds came up empty.
|
| 5. The electrical "grid" is a bad, deadly joke. Said that driving
| down the street in a Hummv with an antenna would short out a whole
| block of apt. buildings. People do their own wiring and it was not
| uncommon for early morning patrols would find one or two people lying
| dead in the street, having been electrocuted trying to re-wire their
| own homes.
|
| 6. Said that not tending to a dead body in the Muslum culture
| never happens. On election day, after suicide bombers blew themselves
| up trying to take out polling places, voters would step up to the body
| lying there, spit on it, and move up in the line to vote.
|
| 7. Pointed out that we all heard from the media about the 100
| Iraqis killed as they were lined up to enlist in the police and
| security service. What the media didn't point out was that the next
| day there 300 lined up in the same place.
|
| 8. Said bin Laden and Zarqawi made a HUGE mistake when bin laden
| went public with naming Zarqawi the "prince" of al Quaeda in Iraq.
| Said that what the Iraqis saw and heard was a Saudi telling a
| Jordainan that his job was to kill Iraqis. HUGE mistake. It was one of
| the biggest factors in getting Iraqis who were on the "fence" to jump
| off on the side of the coalition and the new gov't.
|
| 9. Said the MSM was making a big, and wrong, deal out of the
| religious sects. Said Iraqis are incredibly nationalistic. They are
| Iraqis first and then say they are Muslum but the Shi'a - Sunni thing
| is just not that big a deal to them.
|
| 10. After the election the Mayor of Baghdad told him that the
| people of the region (Middle East) are joyous and the governments are
| nervous.
|
| 11. Said that he did not lose a single tanker truck carrying oil
| and gas over the roads of Iraq. Think about that. All the attacks we
| saw on TV with IEDs hitting trucks but he didn't lose one. Why? Army
| Aviation. Praised his air units and said they made the decision early
| on that every convoy would have helicopter air cover. Said aviators in
| that unit were hitting the 1,000 hour mark (sound familiar?). Said a
| convoy was supposed to head out but stopped at the gates of a compound
| on the command of an E6. He asked the SSG what the hold up was. E6
| said, "Air , sir." He wondered what was wrong with the air, not
| realizing what the kid was talking about. Then the AH-64s showed up
| and the E6 said, "That air sir." And then moved out.
|
| 12. Said one of the biggest problems was money and regs. There was
| a $77 million gap between the supplemental budget and what he needed
| in cash on the ground to get projects started. Said he spent most of
| his time trying to get money. Said he didn't do much as a "combat
| commander" because the the war he was fighting was a war at the squad
| and platoon level. Said that his NCOs were winning the war and it was
| a sight to behold.
|
| 13. Said that of all the money appropriated for Iraq, not a cent
| was earmarked for agriculture. Said that Iraq could feed itself
| completely and still have food for export but no one thought about it.
| Said the Cav started working with Texas A&M on ag projects and had
| special hybrid seeds sent to them through Jordan. TAM analyzed soil
| samples and worked out how and what to plant. Said he had an E7 from
| Belton, TX (just down the road from Ft. Hood) who was almost
| single-handedly rebuilding the ag industry in the Baghdad area.
|
| 14. Said he could hire hundreds of Iraqis daily for $7 to $10 a
| day to work on sewer, electric, water projects, etc. but that the
| contracting rules from CONUS applied so he had to have $500,000
| insurance policies in place in case the workers got hurt. Not kidding.
| The CONUS peacetime regs slowed everything down, even if they could
| eventually get waivers for the regs.
|
| There was more, lots more, but the idea is that you haven't heard
| any of this from anyone, at least I hadn't and I pay more attention
| than most.
|
| Great stuff. We should be proud. Said the Cav troops said it was
| ALL worth it on Jan. 30 when they saw how the Iraqis handled election
| day. Made them very proud of their service and what they had
| accomplished.
|
| It is great stuff.
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tiglath

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Since: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: 83



(Msg. 11) Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:37 pm
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Archived from groups: alt>books>tom-clancy, others (more info?)

Drifter Bob wrote:
> > | 2. The Cav lost 28 main battle tanks. He said one of the big
> > | lessons learned is that, contrary to doctrine going in, M1-A2s
and
> > | Bradleys are needed, preferred and devastating in urban combat
and he
> > | is going to make that point to the JCS next week while they are
> > | considering downsizing armor.
>
> They lost 28 tanks? You mean they were shifted to another unit or
they were
> lost in combat?
>
> DB

Well...

I'm glad you asked...
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Drifter Bob

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Since: Apr 27, 2005
Posts: 2



(Msg. 12) Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:40 pm
Post subject: Re: The REAL STORY From Iraq [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> | 2. The Cav lost 28 main battle tanks. He said one of the big
> | lessons learned is that, contrary to doctrine going in, M1-A2s and
> | Bradleys are needed, preferred and devastating in urban combat and he
> | is going to make that point to the JCS next week while they are
> | considering downsizing armor.

They lost 28 tanks? You mean they were shifted to another unit or they were
lost in combat?

DB
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Drifter Bob

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Since: Apr 27, 2005
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:44 pm
Post subject: Re: The REAL STORY From Iraq [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> | 3. He showed a graph of attacks in Sadr City by month. Last
> | Aug-Sep they were getting up to 160 attacks per week. During the last
> | three months, the graph had flatlined at below 5 to zero per week.

Military.com reported today in their newsletter that attacks are up to 400
per week.

Are they "MSM"?

DB
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Bruce Sinclair

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Since: Apr 18, 2005
Posts: 20



(Msg. 14) Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:44 pm
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In article <%rSbe.103609$f%4.91855@bignews1.bellsouth.net>, "Drifter Bob" <nobody.RemoveThis@nowhere.net> wrote:
>> | 2. The Cav lost 28 main battle tanks. He said one of the big
>> | lessons learned is that, contrary to doctrine going in, M1-A2s and
>> | Bradleys are needed, preferred and devastating in urban combat and he
>> | is going to make that point to the JCS next week while they are
>> | considering downsizing armor.
>
>They lost 28 tanks? You mean they were shifted to another unit or they were
>lost in combat?

... ... off topic in at least some of these groups too. Smile


Bruce


-------------------------------------
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.
- George Bernard Shaw
Cynic, n: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.
- Ambrose Bierce

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