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REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007

 
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Author Message
Paul O'Brien

External


Since: Oct 28, 2007
Posts: 56



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:25 pm
Post subject: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007
Archived from groups: rec>arts>comics>marvel>xbooks, others (more info?)

THE X-AXIS
11 November 2007
================

For more links, cover art, archived reviews, and information on the
X-Axis mailing list, visit http://www.thexaxis.com

------------

This week:

ASTONISHING X-MEN #23
by Joss Whedon and John Cassaday

UNCANNY X-MEN #492 - Messiah Complex, part 2 of 13
by Ed Brubaker, Billy Tan, Danny Miki and Allan Martinez

SILVER SURFER: IN THY NAME #1 (of 4)
by Simon Spurrier and Tan Eng Huat

------------

There are lots of comics out this week, but not many of them cry out for
reviewing. And it's a quiet week for the X-books in particular, with
only Astonishing and Uncanny coming out. They're both in mid-storyline,
but what the heck.

ASTONISHING X-MEN may be the highest selling X-Men title, but it still
feels very much like a side project. Part of the problem is that
although it's notionally the X-books' flagship, in practice it lives in
a little world of its own, completely ignored by the other titles. They
belatedly acknowledged that Colossus had been brought back to life, but
that was about it.

After Grant Morrison left, the X-books spent several years floundering
without much in the way of direction. In theory, Astonishing could have
been the lead book that set the new tone for the line, but in practice
it was so self-contained that it couldn't serve that function. What's
more, because it's so spectacularly late, the other writers seem to have
become wary about acknowledging anything that happens in it. So when,
eventually, the other X-books finally got around to identifying a clear
direction that they wanted to go in, they just ignored Astonishing as a
straggler and marched off without it.

The fact that they can do this and get away with it points to another
difficulty. This two-year storyline simply doesn't feel as though it's
going to make much of a difference to anything. The closing issues
mainly involve the X-Men running around on an alien planet trying to
thwart a prophecy. Notionally there's a risk of Earth being destroyed
if the X-Men lose, but plainly we all know that's not going to happen.
Now that the return of Colossus is out of the way, and the tease that
Emma Frost might be a traitor has been set aside, what's still at stake?

Basically, it's the fate of a planet of little green men, with a rather
contrived culture of warfare. And do we really care that much what
happens to them? I can't honestly say this storyline has left me
desperate for more Tales of the Breakworld. The X-books already have
the Shi'ar Empire to visit when they want to play at being a space
opera. There isn't really a need for the Breakworld in the wider X-Men
mythology, which makes me suspect that chances are we won't be hearing
much of it after the final issue comes out in December.

I think that must be the sticking point. This storyline has dragged on
for three-and-a-half years (it should have been finished in spring
2006), and it just isn't monumental enough to get away with it.
Frankly, even at the scheduled length of two years, it would have been
overlong. It's paced in the manner of the "decompressed" superhero
comics that were popular when it was commissioned, and it's notable that
Whedon has adopted a much more efficient and pacy style in Runaways and
Buffy. If he was doing this storyline over again, I suspect it would
probably clock in at around sixteen issues.

This is frustrating, because the details are good - generally very good
indeed. Whedon has a knack for writing dialogue that makes his
characters feel rounded. He also plays imaginatively with audience
expectations. The centrepiece of this story is a clever little plot
twist which reveals that a major scene from a previous issue, where the
X-Men planned what to do next, was actually an act put on for the bad
guys while they were doing the real discussions telepathically. That's
a cute use of the unreliable narrator, misleading us by using a trick
that's been established in the X-books since the year dot, simply
because we expect to be cut in on the psychic conversations too.

John Cassaday's art is typically beautiful, with a command of body
language that gives his characters a subtle emotional range that few
artists in the genre can match. He's perhaps not a natural action
artist - his strengths lie in the quieter moments - but he's still able
to make those scenes work, and a closing set piece with Cyclops comes
across brilliantly.

So there's a lot to like in here, and even to admire. But the top-notch
technique is married to a storyline that's not quite strong enough.

Rating: B+

------------

Somewhat against my better judgment, I'm rather enjoying "Messiah
Complex" so far.

I mean, yes, technically I can see all sorts of flaws in it. And I'll
get to some of them in a bit. But it works at the most fundamental
level - it convinces me that the birth of a new mutant is indeed a
hugely significant event of dramatic importance.

Admittedly, it doesn't face an uphill task to persuade me there. As I've
discussed at some length in recent months, I'm now quite convinced that
the M-Day storyline was disastrously misconceived, and needs to be fixed
as a matter of urgency. Without doing that, there's really no book. So
anything that seems, on the face of it, to be reversing M-Day even in
part, is clearly a very good thing indeed (and a very important thing,
because if they don't get this right, it's hard to see what sort of
series they'll be left with).

Perhaps my enthusiasm for the general concept is making me unduly
forgiving. I certainly find it difficult to rationalise the fact that
I'm more interested in this storyline than in Astonishing, except on the
grounds that the stakes seem higher. After all, UNCANNY X-MEN's
"Messiah Complex" chapter drifts in second when it comes to technique.

Since "Messiah Complex" is a weekly storyline, it can get away with the
sort of pacing that would be egregiously relaxed in a monthly title. So
most of this chapter consists of the X-Men sitting around in their base,
deciding what to do next. There's a rather gratuitous fight with some
obscure Acolytes at the end of the issue, which looks decidedly as
though it's been included to get some action into the book. But mainly,
it's an issue of talking.

Fortunately, this does allow Ed Brubaker to follow up on the storyline
he began in Deadly Genesis, with Professor X marginalised from his own
team now that Cyclops no longer trusts him. This is handled quite well,
although it really does beg the question of why Brubaker has waited so
many months to show us that Scott blames the Professor for the loss of
his family as well. If he was going to use that as a major plot point,
it should have been covered earlier than now. Still, now that we're
getting to it, it's done well. A page of Xavier listlessly wandering
the halls while the other X-Men make plans without inviting him is a
nice moment.

Billy Tan is the artist for this chapter. He's an action artist, and
the fight scenes work fine. But the rest of the issue, with people
standing around talking at the Mansion, is more of a challenge for him.
He falls back on a lot of oddball camera angles to spice things up, but
they don't really communicate much.

Although he can convey emotion at the key moments (that page with the
Professor comes across very well), Tan is less good at giving his
background characters things to do during exposition scenes. So we get a
lot of people with blank expressions and generic body language. When
Madrox and Rictor show up, the script tells us that they're angry about
how they were brought there, but nothing in the art brings that out.
And for some reason, Tan seems to have inordinate difficulties in
drawing Cyclops, who seems to have developed a squint visor.

So there's plenty wrong with this issue, and I'd be the first to admit
that. But it's made me care about the storyline, and that's enough to
forgive a multitude of sins.

Rating: B

------------

As writer Simon Spurrier has candidly acknowledged, the miniseries
SILVER SURFER: IN THY NAME was commissioned on the grounds that Marvel
wanted to have a Silver Surfer story on the shelves when the Fantastic
Four 2 DVD came out.

Come to think of it, that seems a little short-sighted to me. If I were
Marvel, I would want the trade paperback in the bookstores when the DVD
came out. I wouldn't want a Silver Surfer mini coming out in time to
release a collected edition through mainstream channels four months
after everyone's forgotten about the movie. But hey, it's their
business, and there's always the J Michael Straczynski story that just
finished.

The actual story in this miniseries has nothing to do with the movie.
Nor does it have anything to do with the Silver Surfer's present
continuity, in which he's back as the herald of Galactus. Instead, this
story takes the Surfer's former status quo as a well-intentioned cosmic
wanderer. We're either out of continuity altogether or somewhere in the
past, and it doesn't really matter which.

The story treads a familiar path. The Surfer encounters a utopian alien
culture, of peace, learning and friendship. Everything seems just
great. But you won't be surprised to learn that there's a dark
underbelly. This is an old standard set-up for stories about visiting
alien worlds, and to be honest, the first issue mostly bounces through
it efficiently without offering anything very different. But the final
page brings out Spurrier's real big idea for the series, which has
plenty of potential for an angst-ridden moralist like the Surfer.

You might remember artist Tan Eng Huat being pushed as the next big
thing by DC a few years ago, when he drew a short-lived Doom Patrol
relaunch in a heavily angular fashion. His style has changed beyond
recognition since those days, and with the addition of strong pastel
colours from Jose Villarrubia, it now has a softer, more European feel
to it. It's often beautiful stuff. There's still room for improvement,
though. The art tends towards rather small figures in cluttered panels,
at times looking like a scaled-down reproduction of work that was meant
to be 50% larger. Still, it's easy to see why editors get so excited
about this guy - and this is so different from his Doom Patrol work as
to show that he's got real range.

A solid issue. The world probably didn't need another Silver Surfer
miniseries, but at least it's getting one that shows promise.

Rating: B


------------

Also this week...

INFINITY INC. #3 - Hmm. This is a rather choppy issue, and it's also
heading way off into the realms of insanity where Peter Milligan is
often at his best. But he's also playing this story more or less
straight, and trying to do a relatively conventional origin story for a
superhero team, as the former members of Luthor's Infinity Inc. are
drawn back together by their common experience, even though they have
nothing else in common. It's a slightly awkward balance, and I'm not
sure it entirely works. It's certainly going to be a minority taste. I
have to be honest, though, and say that it's a book that I want to like
more than I actualyl like it. B-

OMEGA THE UNKNOWN #2 - Well, this is a remarkably strange and enigmatic
book. I'm not familiar enough with the Gerber/Skrenes original to know
how closely Jonatham Lethem is sticking to the source material here.
But there's an endearingly awkward and dreamlike quality to this book
that somehow manages to play effectively off the more obviously cynical
subplot about the Mink, a corrupt populist superhero. Farel Dalrymple
is a great artist, and the sheer inappropriateness of his style for any
sort of mainstream superhero book only works to advantage. I still
haven't got much of a clue what's going on here, but it's certainly got
my attention. A-

------------

There's more from me at If Destroyed, and if you're desperate for more
Article 10 columns, you can always hunt through the archives on Ninth
Art.
http://ifdestroyed.blogspot.com
http://www.ninthart.com

Next week, "Messiah Complex" continues into X-Factor #25. Wolverine #59
continues the "Logan Dies" storyline, by Marc Guggenheim and Howard
Chaykin. And the misleadingly-named Excalibur/Exiles crossover, X-Men:
Die By The Sword, is up to issue #3.

--
Paul O'Brien

THE X-AXIS - http://www.thexaxis.com
IF DESTROYED - http://ifdestroyed.blogspot.com
NINTH ART - http://www.ninthart.com

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grinningdemon

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Since: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 200



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:21 pm
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:25:22 +0000, Paul O'Brien
<paul DeleteThis @esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>THE X-AXIS
>11 November 2007
>================
>
>For more links, cover art, archived reviews, and information on the
>X-Axis mailing list, visit http://www.thexaxis.com
>
> ------------
>
>This week:
>
>UNCANNY X-MEN #492 - Messiah Complex, part 2 of 13
> by Ed Brubaker, Billy Tan, Danny Miki and Allan Martinez
>
>
>Somewhat against my better judgment, I'm rather enjoying "Messiah
>Complex" so far.
>
>I mean, yes, technically I can see all sorts of flaws in it. And I'll
>get to some of them in a bit. But it works at the most fundamental
>level - it convinces me that the birth of a new mutant is indeed a
>hugely significant event of dramatic importance.
>
>Admittedly, it doesn't face an uphill task to persuade me there. As I've
>discussed at some length in recent months, I'm now quite convinced that
>the M-Day storyline was disastrously misconceived, and needs to be fixed
>as a matter of urgency. Without doing that, there's really no book. So
>anything that seems, on the face of it, to be reversing M-Day even in
>part, is clearly a very good thing indeed (and a very important thing,
>because if they don't get this right, it's hard to see what sort of
>series they'll be left with).
>
>Perhaps my enthusiasm for the general concept is making me unduly
>forgiving. I certainly find it difficult to rationalise the fact that
>I'm more interested in this storyline than in Astonishing, except on the
>grounds that the stakes seem higher. After all, UNCANNY X-MEN's
>"Messiah Complex" chapter drifts in second when it comes to technique.
>
>Since "Messiah Complex" is a weekly storyline, it can get away with the
>sort of pacing that would be egregiously relaxed in a monthly title. So
>most of this chapter consists of the X-Men sitting around in their base,
>deciding what to do next. There's a rather gratuitous fight with some
>obscure Acolytes at the end of the issue, which looks decidedly as
>though it's been included to get some action into the book. But mainly,
>it's an issue of talking.
>
>Fortunately, this does allow Ed Brubaker to follow up on the storyline
>he began in Deadly Genesis, with Professor X marginalised from his own
>team now that Cyclops no longer trusts him. This is handled quite well,
>although it really does beg the question of why Brubaker has waited so
>many months to show us that Scott blames the Professor for the loss of
>his family as well. If he was going to use that as a major plot point,
>it should have been covered earlier than now. Still, now that we're
>getting to it, it's done well. A page of Xavier listlessly wandering
>the halls while the other X-Men make plans without inviting him is a
>nice moment.

The thing that really gets me here is that Cyclops is the ONLY one who
doesn't trust him anymore. Granted, he has more reason to distrust
Xavier since it was his mind and family that was screwed with in
Deadly Genesis, but those events, along with the whole Danger Room
debacle, should have the other X-Men wondering what else he's done and
if he's ever played with their minds too...none of them should trust
him...and it bugs me that they all just kind of shrug their shoulders
at this and move on...I can't be the only one who thinks this is odd,
can I?

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baines

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Since: Mar 08, 2004
Posts: 402



(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:27 am
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

grinningdemon <grinningdemon.RemoveThis@austin.rr.com> wrote in
news:nnkfj35kbmcltt7c458fe33e3dlmd5p7ut@4ax.com:

> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:25:22 +0000, Paul O'Brien
> <paul.RemoveThis@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>THE X-AXIS
>>11 November 2007
>>================
>>
>>For more links, cover art, archived reviews, and information on the
>>X-Axis mailing list, visit http://www.thexaxis.com
>>
>> ------------
>>
>>This week:
>>
>>UNCANNY X-MEN #492 - Messiah Complex, part 2 of 13
>> by Ed Brubaker, Billy Tan, Danny Miki and Allan Martinez
>>
>>
>>Somewhat against my better judgment, I'm rather enjoying "Messiah
>>Complex" so far.
>>
>>I mean, yes, technically I can see all sorts of flaws in it. And I'll
>>get to some of them in a bit. But it works at the most fundamental
>>level - it convinces me that the birth of a new mutant is indeed a
>>hugely significant event of dramatic importance.
>>
>>Admittedly, it doesn't face an uphill task to persuade me there. As
I've
>>discussed at some length in recent months, I'm now quite convinced
that
>>the M-Day storyline was disastrously misconceived, and needs to be
fixed
>>as a matter of urgency. Without doing that, there's really no book.
So
>>anything that seems, on the face of it, to be reversing M-Day even in
>>part, is clearly a very good thing indeed (and a very important thing,
>>because if they don't get this right, it's hard to see what sort of
>>series they'll be left with).
>>
>>Perhaps my enthusiasm for the general concept is making me unduly
>>forgiving. I certainly find it difficult to rationalise the fact that
>>I'm more interested in this storyline than in Astonishing, except on
the
>>grounds that the stakes seem higher. After all, UNCANNY X-MEN's
>>"Messiah Complex" chapter drifts in second when it comes to technique.
>>
>>Since "Messiah Complex" is a weekly storyline, it can get away with
the
>>sort of pacing that would be egregiously relaxed in a monthly title.
So
>>most of this chapter consists of the X-Men sitting around in their
base,
>>deciding what to do next. There's a rather gratuitous fight with some
>>obscure Acolytes at the end of the issue, which looks decidedly as
>>though it's been included to get some action into the book. But
mainly,
>>it's an issue of talking.
>>
>>Fortunately, this does allow Ed Brubaker to follow up on the storyline
>>he began in Deadly Genesis, with Professor X marginalised from his own
>>team now that Cyclops no longer trusts him. This is handled quite
well,
>>although it really does beg the question of why Brubaker has waited so
>>many months to show us that Scott blames the Professor for the loss of
>>his family as well. If he was going to use that as a major plot
point,
>>it should have been covered earlier than now. Still, now that we're
>>getting to it, it's done well. A page of Xavier listlessly wandering
>>the halls while the other X-Men make plans without inviting him is a
>>nice moment.
>
> The thing that really gets me here is that Cyclops is the ONLY one who
> doesn't trust him anymore. Granted, he has more reason to distrust
> Xavier since it was his mind and family that was screwed with in
> Deadly Genesis, but those events, along with the whole Danger Room
> debacle, should have the other X-Men wondering what else he's done and
> if he's ever played with their minds too...none of them should trust
> him...and it bugs me that they all just kind of shrug their shoulders
> at this and move on...I can't be the only one who thinks this is odd,
> can I?

I think, or at least hope, we are supposed to be seeing Scott as
going a bit too far in his anger.

After all, Cyclops blames Xavier because Havoc decided to stay in
space? That was Havoc's choice. Cyclops and Havoc may have had dustups
in the past over decisions and who has authority, but Cyclops shouldn't
have say over whether or not Havoc decides to follow in their dad's
footsteps.

And he blames Xavier for standing by while Corsair was killed. But
what could Xavier do? And heck, what did Cyclops do? Cyclops sure
didn't go into space to stop Vulcan. Cyclops didn't care enough to
even warn Corsair that their disgruntled super-powered relative was
heading his way with the death of the Shi'ar in mind and *maybe* some
lethal family issues to work out. Though Cyclops sure wouldn't have
been able to talk Corsair out of tackling Vulcan, so Corsair would
probably have died no matter what.

Cyclops can blame Xavier for the "creation" of Vulcan, but not
really for more recent events. Xavier actually tried to fix things.
What did Cyclops do? Cyclops just ignored the whole thing. He kicked
Xavier out before the trip. And when Xavier came back, he just kicked
him.



Uncanny does seem to carry the feeling that Xavier is going to do
something stupid as a result of all this though...
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Tony

External


Since: Nov 12, 2007
Posts: 3



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:11 pm
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Nov 11, 10:21?pm, grinningdemon <grinningde....DeleteThis@austin.rr.com>
wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:25:22 +0000, Paul O'Brien
>
>
>
>
>
> <p....DeleteThis@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >THE X-AXIS
> >11 November 2007
> >================
>
> >For more links, cover art, archived reviews, and information on the
> >X-Axis mailing list, visithttp://www.thexaxis.com
>
> > ------------
>
> >This week:
>
> >UNCANNY X-MEN #492 - Messiah Complex, part 2 of 13
> > by Ed Brubaker, Billy Tan, Danny Miki and Allan Martinez
>
> >Somewhat against my better judgment, I'm rather enjoying "Messiah
> >Complex" so far.
>
> >I mean, yes, technically I can see all sorts of flaws in it. And I'll
> >get to some of them in a bit. But it works at the most fundamental
> >level - it convinces me that the birth of a new mutant is indeed a
> >hugely significant event of dramatic importance.
>
> >Admittedly, it doesn't face an uphill task to persuade me there. As I've
> >discussed at some length in recent months, I'm now quite convinced that
> >the M-Day storyline was disastrously misconceived, and needs to be fixed
> >as a matter of urgency. Without doing that, there's really no book. So
> >anything that seems, on the face of it, to be reversing M-Day even in
> >part, is clearly a very good thing indeed (and a very important thing,
> >because if they don't get this right, it's hard to see what sort of
> >series they'll be left with).
>
> >Perhaps my enthusiasm for the general concept is making me unduly
> >forgiving. I certainly find it difficult to rationalise the fact that
> >I'm more interested in this storyline than in Astonishing, except on the
> >grounds that the stakes seem higher. After all, UNCANNY X-MEN's
> >"Messiah Complex" chapter drifts in second when it comes to technique.
>
> >Since "Messiah Complex" is a weekly storyline, it can get away with the
> >sort of pacing that would be egregiously relaxed in a monthly title. So
> >most of this chapter consists of the X-Men sitting around in their base,
> >deciding what to do next. There's a rather gratuitous fight with some
> >obscure Acolytes at the end of the issue, which looks decidedly as
> >though it's been included to get some action into the book. But mainly,
> >it's an issue of talking.
>
> >Fortunately, this does allow Ed Brubaker to follow up on the storyline
> >he began in Deadly Genesis, with Professor X marginalised from his own
> >team now that Cyclops no longer trusts him. This is handled quite well,
> >although it really does beg the question of why Brubaker has waited so
> >many months to show us that Scott blames the Professor for the loss of
> >his family as well. If he was going to use that as a major plot point,
> >it should have been covered earlier than now. Still, now that we're
> >getting to it, it's done well. A page of Xavier listlessly wandering
> >the halls while the other X-Men make plans without inviting him is a
> >nice moment.
>
> The thing that really gets me here is that Cyclops is the ONLY one who
> doesn't trust him anymore. Granted, he has more reason to distrust
> Xavier since it was his mind and family that was screwed with in
> Deadly Genesis, but those events, along with the whole Danger Room
> debacle, should have the other X-Men wondering what else he's done and
> if he's ever played with their minds too...none of them should trust
> him...and it bugs me that they all just kind of shrug their shoulders
> at this and move on...I can't be the only one who thinks this is odd,
> can I?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

--I don't think the *rest* of the team should have issues with
Charles. Some should, like Kurt and Ororo, but Logan? Please, he's
done things every bit as bad as Charles. He who casts stones and all
that...
I do wish we'd get some thoughts on the matter from other team
members. Perhaps some blame him, but still love him and can't deal
with what he did. Perhaps some are trying to rationalize his actions b/
c he's still their father figure. Perhaps some feel what he did was
necessary, that the ends justified the means.
I feel that there isn't *one* uniform reaction that the X-Men should
be feeling WRT Charles. Especially given that they've experienced
traitors, backstabbing, and drama their entire lives. Just b/c
Charles Xavier created the X-Men doesn't make him immune to the same
sins that the X-Men (and their foes) have been part of all these
years.

Tony
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Dan McEwen

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Since: Jul 03, 2007
Posts: 185



(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:36 pm
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grinningdemon <grinningdemon.RemoveThis@austin.rr.com> wrote in
news:nnkfj35kbmcltt7c458fe33e3dlmd5p7ut@4ax.com:

> The thing that really gets me here is that Cyclops is the ONLY one who
> doesn't trust him anymore. Granted, he has more reason to distrust
> Xavier since it was his mind and family that was screwed with in
> Deadly Genesis, but those events, along with the whole Danger Room
> debacle, should have the other X-Men wondering what else he's done and
> if he's ever played with their minds too...none of them should trust
> him...and it bugs me that they all just kind of shrug their shoulders
> at this and move on...I can't be the only one who thinks this is odd,
> can I?

I don't think Scott is the only one to distrust Xavier. I think Scott
is simply the most obvious about it. As Paul pointed out, Xavier
wanders through the halls while the other X-Men make plans without him.
*No one* invites him in.

As for Messiah Complex itself, I also found myself liking it. It seems
to at least be going somewhere. Endangered Species was really just a
waste of paper. It solved absolutely nothing - unless the point of it
was to say that science couldn't undo Decimation.
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Dan McEwen

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Since: Jul 03, 2007
Posts: 185



(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:42 pm
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Billy Bissette <baines.RemoveThis@coastalnet.com> wrote in
news:Xns99E64EC5229Fwhatcholookinat@216.168.3.70:

> I think, or at least hope, we are supposed to be seeing Scott as
> going a bit too far in his anger.

I don't think so. He's more hurt than anyone else because he looked at
Xavier like a father. Unlike the other original X-Men, he was the only
one without any parents. Xavier was it. Then, to find out that
everything you thought was great about your father was a lie can be
hurtful. It's not just one thing Scott is mad about - it's all of it
that's been revealed over the past few years.

> After all, Cyclops blames Xavier because Havoc decided to stay in
> space? That was Havoc's choice. Cyclops and Havoc may have had
> dustups in the past over decisions and who has authority, but Cyclops
> shouldn't have say over whether or not Havoc decides to follow in
> their dad's footsteps.

This is all minor. It's just the most recent things.

> And he blames Xavier for standing by while Corsair was killed. But
> what could Xavier do? And heck, what did Cyclops do? Cyclops sure
> didn't go into space to stop Vulcan. Cyclops didn't care enough to
> even warn Corsair that their disgruntled super-powered relative was
> heading his way with the death of the Shi'ar in mind and *maybe* some
> lethal family issues to work out. Though Cyclops sure wouldn't have
> been able to talk Corsair out of tackling Vulcan, so Corsair would
> probably have died no matter what.

Almost certainly, but that hardly makes a difference in his feelings.

> Cyclops can blame Xavier for the "creation" of Vulcan, but not
> really for more recent events. Xavier actually tried to fix things.

I agree that he tried to fix things.

> What did Cyclops do? Cyclops just ignored the whole thing. He kicked
> Xavier out before the trip. And when Xavier came back, he just kicked
> him.

Cyclops didn't ignore anything. Unlike some, Cyclops seems to have felt
that his responsbility to dwindling mutantkind - as well being
headmaster of the school - outweighed a decision to fly off into space.

> Uncanny does seem to carry the feeling that Xavier is going to do
> something stupid as a result of all this though...

I'm thinking the opposite. I think Xavier is getting back on track. He
seems to be written in a way I like him, which is exceedingly rare.
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Tony

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Since: Nov 12, 2007
Posts: 3



(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:17 pm
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Nov 13, 1:05?am, grinningdemon <grinningde....DeleteThis@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> On 12 Nov 2007 14:36:59 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAM....DeleteThis@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >grinningdemon <grinningde....DeleteThis@austin.rr.com> wrote in
> >news:nnkfj35kbmcltt7c458fe33e3dlmd5p7ut@4ax.com:
>
> >> The thing that really gets me here is that Cyclops is the ONLY one who
> >> doesn't trust him anymore. Granted, he has more reason to distrust
> >> Xavier since it was his mind and family that was screwed with in
> >> Deadly Genesis, but those events, along with the whole Danger Room
> >> debacle, should have the other X-Men wondering what else he's done and
> >> if he's ever played with their minds too...none of them should trust
> >> him...and it bugs me that they all just kind of shrug their shoulders
> >> at this and move on...I can't be the only one who thinks this is odd,
> >> can I?
>
> >I don't think Scott is the only one to distrust Xavier. I think Scott
> >is simply the most obvious about it. As Paul pointed out, Xavier
> >wanders through the halls while the other X-Men make plans without him.
> >*No one* invites him in.
>
> >As for Messiah Complex itself, I also found myself liking it. It seems
> >to at least be going somewhere. Endangered Species was really just a
> >waste of paper. It solved absolutely nothing - unless the point of it
> >was to say that science couldn't undo Decimation.
>
> I really am enjoying the crossover overall so far...I love that they
> are actually referencing earlier stories and coordinating the whole
> bit...it's just this whole thing with Xavier that bugs me...they
> really need to kill him off and be done with it...and I agree that
> Endangered Species was a waste of paper...they actually had me
> convinced that it was going somewhere right up until it
> didn't...bastards.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

--I'm not sure why anyone thought Endangered Species was actually a
story about anything. It's been known for some time that it was all
about the Hank's efforts to discover a cure for the Decimation, and
we've known that Messiah Complex was about the first new mutant birth
and the race to see who gets him/her first. Putting two and two
together, one easily sees that Endangered Species was merely the lead
in to Messiah Complex, and wasn't going to resolve theme of the
crossover.
Though, as others have mentioned, Endangered Species really should
have been put out a month or two after Decimation to underscore the
idea that this could really be the end of mutants. Then, a year or so
later, put out Messiah Complex. But it's clear the editors behind
House of M and Decimation weren't thinking long term.

Tony
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grinningdemon

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Since: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 200



(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:02 am
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 05:27:48 -0000, Billy Bissette
<baines.RemoveThis@coastalnet.com> wrote:

>grinningdemon <grinningdemon.RemoveThis@austin.rr.com> wrote in
>news:nnkfj35kbmcltt7c458fe33e3dlmd5p7ut@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:25:22 +0000, Paul O'Brien
>> <paul.RemoveThis@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>THE X-AXIS
>>>11 November 2007
>>>================
>>>
>>>For more links, cover art, archived reviews, and information on the
>>>X-Axis mailing list, visit http://www.thexaxis.com
>>>
>>> ------------
>>>
>>>This week:
>>>
>>>UNCANNY X-MEN #492 - Messiah Complex, part 2 of 13
>>> by Ed Brubaker, Billy Tan, Danny Miki and Allan Martinez
>>>
>>>
>>>Somewhat against my better judgment, I'm rather enjoying "Messiah
>>>Complex" so far.
>>>
>>>I mean, yes, technically I can see all sorts of flaws in it. And I'll
>>>get to some of them in a bit. But it works at the most fundamental
>>>level - it convinces me that the birth of a new mutant is indeed a
>>>hugely significant event of dramatic importance.
>>>
>>>Admittedly, it doesn't face an uphill task to persuade me there. As
>I've
>>>discussed at some length in recent months, I'm now quite convinced
>that
>>>the M-Day storyline was disastrously misconceived, and needs to be
>fixed
>>>as a matter of urgency. Without doing that, there's really no book.
>So
>>>anything that seems, on the face of it, to be reversing M-Day even in
>>>part, is clearly a very good thing indeed (and a very important thing,
>>>because if they don't get this right, it's hard to see what sort of
>>>series they'll be left with).
>>>
>>>Perhaps my enthusiasm for the general concept is making me unduly
>>>forgiving. I certainly find it difficult to rationalise the fact that
>>>I'm more interested in this storyline than in Astonishing, except on
>the
>>>grounds that the stakes seem higher. After all, UNCANNY X-MEN's
>>>"Messiah Complex" chapter drifts in second when it comes to technique.
>>>
>>>Since "Messiah Complex" is a weekly storyline, it can get away with
>the
>>>sort of pacing that would be egregiously relaxed in a monthly title.
>So
>>>most of this chapter consists of the X-Men sitting around in their
>base,
>>>deciding what to do next. There's a rather gratuitous fight with some
>>>obscure Acolytes at the end of the issue, which looks decidedly as
>>>though it's been included to get some action into the book. But
>mainly,
>>>it's an issue of talking.
>>>
>>>Fortunately, this does allow Ed Brubaker to follow up on the storyline
>>>he began in Deadly Genesis, with Professor X marginalised from his own
>>>team now that Cyclops no longer trusts him. This is handled quite
>well,
>>>although it really does beg the question of why Brubaker has waited so
>>>many months to show us that Scott blames the Professor for the loss of
>>>his family as well. If he was going to use that as a major plot
>point,
>>>it should have been covered earlier than now. Still, now that we're
>>>getting to it, it's done well. A page of Xavier listlessly wandering
>>>the halls while the other X-Men make plans without inviting him is a
>>>nice moment.
>>
>> The thing that really gets me here is that Cyclops is the ONLY one who
>> doesn't trust him anymore. Granted, he has more reason to distrust
>> Xavier since it was his mind and family that was screwed with in
>> Deadly Genesis, but those events, along with the whole Danger Room
>> debacle, should have the other X-Men wondering what else he's done and
>> if he's ever played with their minds too...none of them should trust
>> him...and it bugs me that they all just kind of shrug their shoulders
>> at this and move on...I can't be the only one who thinks this is odd,
>> can I?
>
> I think, or at least hope, we are supposed to be seeing Scott as
>going a bit too far in his anger.
>
> After all, Cyclops blames Xavier because Havoc decided to stay in
>space? That was Havoc's choice. Cyclops and Havoc may have had dustups
>in the past over decisions and who has authority, but Cyclops shouldn't
>have say over whether or not Havoc decides to follow in their dad's
>footsteps.
>
> And he blames Xavier for standing by while Corsair was killed. But
>what could Xavier do? And heck, what did Cyclops do? Cyclops sure
>didn't go into space to stop Vulcan. Cyclops didn't care enough to
>even warn Corsair that their disgruntled super-powered relative was
>heading his way with the death of the Shi'ar in mind and *maybe* some
>lethal family issues to work out. Though Cyclops sure wouldn't have
>been able to talk Corsair out of tackling Vulcan, so Corsair would
>probably have died no matter what.
>
> Cyclops can blame Xavier for the "creation" of Vulcan, but not
>really for more recent events. Xavier actually tried to fix things.
>What did Cyclops do? Cyclops just ignored the whole thing. He kicked
>Xavier out before the trip. And when Xavier came back, he just kicked
>him.
>
>
>
> Uncanny does seem to carry the feeling that Xavier is going to do
>something stupid as a result of all this though...

Xavier seriously messed with his head and erased his only memories of
the existence of his brother and set all the current events with
Vulcan in motion...and a whole team of X-Men he just swept under the
rug...and he apparently also erased Moira MacTaggert's memories of
these people as she had to leave a recording to remind her what had
happened...as far as I'm concerned, these are unforgiveable
actions...none of the X-Men can trust their memories of anything
anymore...he even erased Emma's memory of meeting Vulcan so even
telepaths aren't immune...add the whole Danger Room bit into the mix
and Xavier has a whole hell of a lot to answer for...and I don't think
any of them should let him off the hook...certainly not so
easily...Cyclops is totally in the right as far as I'm concerned.
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grinningdemon

External


Since: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 200



(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:05 am
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 12 Nov 2007 14:36:59 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy.RemoveThis@gmail.com>
wrote:

>grinningdemon <grinningdemon.RemoveThis@austin.rr.com> wrote in
>news:nnkfj35kbmcltt7c458fe33e3dlmd5p7ut@4ax.com:
>
>> The thing that really gets me here is that Cyclops is the ONLY one who
>> doesn't trust him anymore. Granted, he has more reason to distrust
>> Xavier since it was his mind and family that was screwed with in
>> Deadly Genesis, but those events, along with the whole Danger Room
>> debacle, should have the other X-Men wondering what else he's done and
>> if he's ever played with their minds too...none of them should trust
>> him...and it bugs me that they all just kind of shrug their shoulders
>> at this and move on...I can't be the only one who thinks this is odd,
>> can I?
>
>I don't think Scott is the only one to distrust Xavier. I think Scott
>is simply the most obvious about it. As Paul pointed out, Xavier
>wanders through the halls while the other X-Men make plans without him.
>*No one* invites him in.
>
>As for Messiah Complex itself, I also found myself liking it. It seems
>to at least be going somewhere. Endangered Species was really just a
>waste of paper. It solved absolutely nothing - unless the point of it
>was to say that science couldn't undo Decimation.

I really am enjoying the crossover overall so far...I love that they
are actually referencing earlier stories and coordinating the whole
bit...it's just this whole thing with Xavier that bugs me...they
really need to kill him off and be done with it...and I agree that
Endangered Species was a waste of paper...they actually had me
convinced that it was going somewhere right up until it
didn't...bastards.
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grinningdemon

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Since: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 200



(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:18 am
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 12:11:34 -0800, Tony <TonyJ1675 RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote:

>On Nov 11, 10:21?pm, grinningdemon <grinningde... RemoveThis @austin.rr.com>
>wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:25:22 +0000, Paul O'Brien
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <p... RemoveThis @esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> >THE X-AXIS
>> >11 November 2007
>> >================
>>
>> >For more links, cover art, archived reviews, and information on the
>> >X-Axis mailing list, visithttp://www.thexaxis.com
>>
>> > ------------
>>
>> >This week:
>>
>> >UNCANNY X-MEN #492 - Messiah Complex, part 2 of 13
>> > by Ed Brubaker, Billy Tan, Danny Miki and Allan Martinez
>>
>> >Somewhat against my better judgment, I'm rather enjoying "Messiah
>> >Complex" so far.
>>
>> >I mean, yes, technically I can see all sorts of flaws in it. And I'll
>> >get to some of them in a bit. But it works at the most fundamental
>> >level - it convinces me that the birth of a new mutant is indeed a
>> >hugely significant event of dramatic importance.
>>
>> >Admittedly, it doesn't face an uphill task to persuade me there. As I've
>> >discussed at some length in recent months, I'm now quite convinced that
>> >the M-Day storyline was disastrously misconceived, and needs to be fixed
>> >as a matter of urgency. Without doing that, there's really no book. So
>> >anything that seems, on the face of it, to be reversing M-Day even in
>> >part, is clearly a very good thing indeed (and a very important thing,
>> >because if they don't get this right, it's hard to see what sort of
>> >series they'll be left with).
>>
>> >Perhaps my enthusiasm for the general concept is making me unduly
>> >forgiving. I certainly find it difficult to rationalise the fact that
>> >I'm more interested in this storyline than in Astonishing, except on the
>> >grounds that the stakes seem higher. After all, UNCANNY X-MEN's
>> >"Messiah Complex" chapter drifts in second when it comes to technique.
>>
>> >Since "Messiah Complex" is a weekly storyline, it can get away with the
>> >sort of pacing that would be egregiously relaxed in a monthly title. So
>> >most of this chapter consists of the X-Men sitting around in their base,
>> >deciding what to do next. There's a rather gratuitous fight with some
>> >obscure Acolytes at the end of the issue, which looks decidedly as
>> >though it's been included to get some action into the book. But mainly,
>> >it's an issue of talking.
>>
>> >Fortunately, this does allow Ed Brubaker to follow up on the storyline
>> >he began in Deadly Genesis, with Professor X marginalised from his own
>> >team now that Cyclops no longer trusts him. This is handled quite well,
>> >although it really does beg the question of why Brubaker has waited so
>> >many months to show us that Scott blames the Professor for the loss of
>> >his family as well. If he was going to use that as a major plot point,
>> >it should have been covered earlier than now. Still, now that we're
>> >getting to it, it's done well. A page of Xavier listlessly wandering
>> >the halls while the other X-Men make plans without inviting him is a
>> >nice moment.
>>
>> The thing that really gets me here is that Cyclops is the ONLY one who
>> doesn't trust him anymore. Granted, he has more reason to distrust
>> Xavier since it was his mind and family that was screwed with in
>> Deadly Genesis, but those events, along with the whole Danger Room
>> debacle, should have the other X-Men wondering what else he's done and
>> if he's ever played with their minds too...none of them should trust
>> him...and it bugs me that they all just kind of shrug their shoulders
>> at this and move on...I can't be the only one who thinks this is odd,
>> can I?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>--I don't think the *rest* of the team should have issues with
>Charles. Some should, like Kurt and Ororo, but Logan? Please, he's
>done things every bit as bad as Charles. He who casts stones and all
>that...
>I do wish we'd get some thoughts on the matter from other team
>members. Perhaps some blame him, but still love him and can't deal
>with what he did. Perhaps some are trying to rationalize his actions b/
>c he's still their father figure. Perhaps some feel what he did was
>necessary, that the ends justified the means.
>I feel that there isn't *one* uniform reaction that the X-Men should
>be feeling WRT Charles. Especially given that they've experienced
>traitors, backstabbing, and drama their entire lives. Just b/c
>Charles Xavier created the X-Men doesn't make him immune to the same
>sins that the X-Men (and their foes) have been part of all these
>years.
>
>Tony

I guess I just think playing with someone's memories is a bigger
betrayal the rest of you do...and Xavier is like a father to the
X-Men...Cyclops in particular...and he's been lying to him almost
since the beginning...I wouldn't be able to forgive something like
that.

Also, if I were one of the X-Men, I would really have to ask myself
what else Xavier has done...if he could alter Scott's memory in such a
major way...and so long ago...who's to say that was the only time he
did something like that...I mean, one Skrull impostor is enough to
make all the Avengers paranoid as hell that everyone and their uncle
is a Skrull but the X-Men's founder seriously altered the memories of
his very first student and none of the others even wonder about the
other skeletons in the closet? It just doesn't seem like a realistic
reaction to me.
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grinningdemon

External


Since: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 200



(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:23 am
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 12:11:34 -0800, Tony <TonyJ1675.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote:

>On Nov 11, 10:21?pm, grinningdemon <grinningde....TakeThisOut@austin.rr.com>
>wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:25:22 +0000, Paul O'Brien
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <p....TakeThisOut@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> >THE X-AXIS
>> >11 November 2007
>> >================
>>
>> >For more links, cover art, archived reviews, and information on the
>> >X-Axis mailing list, visithttp://www.thexaxis.com
>>
>> > ------------
>>
>> >This week:
>>
>> >UNCANNY X-MEN #492 - Messiah Complex, part 2 of 13
>> > by Ed Brubaker, Billy Tan, Danny Miki and Allan Martinez
>>
>> >Somewhat against my better judgment, I'm rather enjoying "Messiah
>> >Complex" so far.
>>
>> >I mean, yes, technically I can see all sorts of flaws in it. And I'll
>> >get to some of them in a bit. But it works at the most fundamental
>> >level - it convinces me that the birth of a new mutant is indeed a
>> >hugely significant event of dramatic importance.
>>
>> >Admittedly, it doesn't face an uphill task to persuade me there. As I've
>> >discussed at some length in recent months, I'm now quite convinced that
>> >the M-Day storyline was disastrously misconceived, and needs to be fixed
>> >as a matter of urgency. Without doing that, there's really no book. So
>> >anything that seems, on the face of it, to be reversing M-Day even in
>> >part, is clearly a very good thing indeed (and a very important thing,
>> >because if they don't get this right, it's hard to see what sort of
>> >series they'll be left with).
>>
>> >Perhaps my enthusiasm for the general concept is making me unduly
>> >forgiving. I certainly find it difficult to rationalise the fact that
>> >I'm more interested in this storyline than in Astonishing, except on the
>> >grounds that the stakes seem higher. After all, UNCANNY X-MEN's
>> >"Messiah Complex" chapter drifts in second when it comes to technique.
>>
>> >Since "Messiah Complex" is a weekly storyline, it can get away with the
>> >sort of pacing that would be egregiously relaxed in a monthly title. So
>> >most of this chapter consists of the X-Men sitting around in their base,
>> >deciding what to do next. There's a rather gratuitous fight with some
>> >obscure Acolytes at the end of the issue, which looks decidedly as
>> >though it's been included to get some action into the book. But mainly,
>> >it's an issue of talking.
>>
>> >Fortunately, this does allow Ed Brubaker to follow up on the storyline
>> >he began in Deadly Genesis, with Professor X marginalised from his own
>> >team now that Cyclops no longer trusts him. This is handled quite well,
>> >although it really does beg the question of why Brubaker has waited so
>> >many months to show us that Scott blames the Professor for the loss of
>> >his family as well. If he was going to use that as a major plot point,
>> >it should have been covered earlier than now. Still, now that we're
>> >getting to it, it's done well. A page of Xavier listlessly wandering
>> >the halls while the other X-Men make plans without inviting him is a
>> >nice moment.
>>
>> The thing that really gets me here is that Cyclops is the ONLY one who
>> doesn't trust him anymore. Granted, he has more reason to distrust
>> Xavier since it was his mind and family that was screwed with in
>> Deadly Genesis, but those events, along with the whole Danger Room
>> debacle, should have the other X-Men wondering what else he's done and
>> if he's ever played with their minds too...none of them should trust
>> him...and it bugs me that they all just kind of shrug their shoulders
>> at this and move on...I can't be the only one who thinks this is odd,
>> can I?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>--I don't think the *rest* of the team should have issues with
>Charles. Some should, like Kurt and Ororo, but Logan? Please, he's
>done things every bit as bad as Charles. He who casts stones and all
>that...

I forgot to mention this but Logan, more than anyone, should have a
problem with what Xavier did...who else on the X-Men has had their
mind screwed with more than Wolverine? I really can't see him just
shrugging his shoulders at this.

>I do wish we'd get some thoughts on the matter from other team
>members. Perhaps some blame him, but still love him and can't deal
>with what he did. Perhaps some are trying to rationalize his actions b/
>c he's still their father figure. Perhaps some feel what he did was
>necessary, that the ends justified the means.
>I feel that there isn't *one* uniform reaction that the X-Men should
>be feeling WRT Charles. Especially given that they've experienced
>traitors, backstabbing, and drama their entire lives. Just b/c
>Charles Xavier created the X-Men doesn't make him immune to the same
>sins that the X-Men (and their foes) have been part of all these
>years.
>
>Tony
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RLP

External


Since: Nov 07, 2006
Posts: 7



(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:43 am
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>comics>marvel>xbooks (more info?)

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:25:22 +0000, Paul O'Brien
<paul.TakeThisOut@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>THE X-AXIS
>11 November 2007
>================
>
>For more links, cover art, archived reviews, and information on the
>X-Axis mailing list, visit http://www.thexaxis.com
>
> ------------
>
>This week:
>
>ASTONISHING X-MEN #23
> by Joss Whedon and John Cassaday
>
>UNCANNY X-MEN #492 - Messiah Complex, part 2 of 13
> by Ed Brubaker, Billy Tan, Danny Miki and Allan Martinez
>
>SILVER SURFER: IN THY NAME #1 (of 4)
> by Simon Spurrier and Tan Eng Huat
>
> ------------
>
>There are lots of comics out this week, but not many of them cry out for
>reviewing. And it's a quiet week for the X-books in particular, with
>only Astonishing and Uncanny coming out. They're both in mid-storyline,
>but what the heck.
>
>ASTONISHING X-MEN may be the highest selling X-Men title, but it still
>feels very much like a side project. Part of the problem is that
>although it's notionally the X-books' flagship, in practice it lives in
>a little world of its own, completely ignored by the other titles. They
>belatedly acknowledged that Colossus had been brought back to life, but
>that was about it.
>
>After Grant Morrison left, the X-books spent several years floundering
>without much in the way of direction.

Actually, the whole X-universe has been floundering since about Age of
Apocalypse. This multiple writers each going their own way doesn't
really work, at least it's not what made the X-books good in the first
place where one writer controlled the whole shebang. And unlike DC
where corporate seems to have tight control over just what a creative
team can do with the company gravy train, what we have now is a bunch
of alternate universe Xs and you would probably be better of picking
the one you like best and ignore the others to avoid brain damage
trying to fit them together.

--------------------------------------
Anyone who thinks evil mutants are only in
comic books, hasen't raised any children.
 >> Stay informed about: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 
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The Black Guardian

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Since: Jun 06, 2007
Posts: 36



(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:48 am
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>comics>marvel>xbooks, others (more info?)

grinningdemon wrote:
> Tony wrote:
>> grinningdemon wrote:
>>> The thing that really gets me here is that Cyclops is the ONLY
>>> one who doesn't trust him anymore. Granted, he has more reason
>>> to distrust Xavier since it was his mind and family that was
>>> screwed with in Deadly Genesis, but those events, along with the
>>> whole Danger Room debacle, should have the other X-Men wondering
>>> what else he's done and if he's ever played with their minds
>>> too...none of them should trust him...and it bugs me that they
>>> all just kind of shrug their shoulders at this and move on...I
>>> can't be the only one who thinks this is odd, can I?
>
>> --I don't think the *rest* of the team should have issues with
>> Charles. Some should, like Kurt and Ororo, but Logan? Please,
>> he's done things every bit as bad as Charles. He who casts
>> stones and all that...
>> I do wish we'd get some thoughts on the matter from other team
>> members. Perhaps some blame him, but still love him and can't
>> deal with what he did. Perhaps some are trying to rationalize his
>> actions b/c he's still their father figure. Perhaps some feel
>> what he did was necessary, that the ends justified the means.