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Since: Nov 13, 2007 Posts: 12
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(Msg. 16) Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:27 pm
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: rec>arts>comics>marvel>xbooks, others (more info?)
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grinningdemon wrote:
>
> I guess I just think playing with someone's memories is a bigger
> betrayal the rest of you do...and Xavier is like a father to the
> X-Men...Cyclops in particular...and he's been lying to him almost
> since the beginning...I wouldn't be able to forgive something like
> that.
>
> Also, if I were one of the X-Men, I would really have to ask myself
> what else Xavier has done...if he could alter Scott's memory in such a
> major way...and so long ago...who's to say that was the only time he
> did something like that...I mean, one Skrull impostor is enough to
> make all the Avengers paranoid as hell that everyone and their uncle
> is a Skrull but the X-Men's founder seriously altered the memories of
> his very first student and none of the others even wonder about the
> other skeletons in the closet? It just doesn't seem like a realistic
> reaction to me.
This is a recurring theme in Brubaker's work. He is basically taking
established Marvel history and inserting "new" prior history in order to
create conflict. Telling untold tales of the pre X-Men not to reaffirm
the character but to deconstruct the character - to actually question
the underlying concept itself.
At times it "works" (I use apostrophes because I actually disagree) like
in Captain America but on others it becomes problematic. It becomes
problematic for the future certainly.
Xavier right now is a prick. He is so much of a prick but Phoenix (Jean
Grey) couldn't see it. Magneto was around at the time but never
revealed it to the X-Men, even though it would have been to his
advantage. Did Xavier do "it" to them as well? That would make him
even worse.
Xavier is willing to re-write memories (ala Zatanna) but specifically of
his friends (even "WORSE" than Zatanna). This is a very bad precedent
for Brubaker to make. Why doesn't Xavier do this on anyone who is a
threat to the X-Men? The writer cannot unmake this situation and
whenever the X-Men or mutants in general are threatened, Xavier "should"
always use this option. There is no moral or ethical component to
contradict Xavier' choice because he is clearly working without a sense
of ethics.
Are we now willing to accept that he has now seen the light and won't do
it again? I would piss on the writer who makes such a cowardly proposition.
badbad >> Stay informed about: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 |
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Since: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 107
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(Msg. 17) Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:27 pm
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:27:18 +0000, badbad wrote:
> grinningdemon wrote:
>
>
>> I guess I just think playing with someone's memories is a bigger
>> betrayal the rest of you do...and Xavier is like a father to the
>> X-Men...Cyclops in particular...and he's been lying to him almost since
>> the beginning...I wouldn't be able to forgive something like that.
>>
>> Also, if I were one of the X-Men, I would really have to ask myself what
>> else Xavier has done...if he could alter Scott's memory in such a major
>> way...and so long ago...who's to say that was the only time he did
>> something like that...I mean, one Skrull impostor is enough to make all
>> the Avengers paranoid as hell that everyone and their uncle is a Skrull
>> but the X-Men's founder seriously altered the memories of his very first
>> student and none of the others even wonder about the other skeletons in
>> the closet? It just doesn't seem like a realistic reaction to me.
>
>
> This is a recurring theme in Brubaker's work. He is basically taking
> established Marvel history and inserting "new" prior history in order to
> create conflict. Telling untold tales of the pre X-Men not to reaffirm
> the character but to deconstruct the character - to actually question the
> underlying concept itself.
>
> At times it "works" (I use apostrophes because I actually disagree) like
> in Captain America but on others it becomes problematic. It becomes
> problematic for the future certainly.
>
> Xavier right now is a prick. He is so much of a prick but Phoenix (Jean
> Grey) couldn't see it. Magneto was around at the time but never revealed
> it to the X-Men, even though it would have been to his advantage. Did
> Xavier do "it" to them as well? That would make him even worse.
Didn't Xavier do "it" to Jean already? When her childhood friend was
killed, didn't Xavier do something to her to suppress her telepathy powers
and her memory of the incident? Apparently she had no problem with what he
did when she learned about it later.
Xavier wiped Magneto's entire mind once, after Magneto did the magnetic
pulse thing. But Magneto doesn't seem to hold that particular thing
against him, despite going ballistic against Moira when he thought she'd
tinkered with his genes.
> Xavier is willing to re-write memories (ala Zatanna) but specifically of
> his friends (even "WORSE" than Zatanna). This is a very bad precedent for
> Brubaker to make. Why doesn't Xavier do this on anyone who is a threat to
> the X-Men?
That's a good question. In the early days of the X-Men, he couldn't do
that on a grand scale, but he often did erase certain details from
enemies' minds, like the location of the X-Mansion or what the X-Men
looked like without their masks.
>The writer cannot unmake this situation and whenever the X-Men
> or mutants in general are threatened, Xavier "should" always use this
> option. There is no moral or ethical component to contradict Xavier'
> choice because he is clearly working without a sense of ethics.
>
> Are we now willing to accept that he has now seen the light and won't do
> it again? I would piss on the writer who makes such a cowardly
> proposition.
>
>
> badbad >> Stay informed about: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 |
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Since: Sep 22, 2006 Posts: 203
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(Msg. 18) Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:20 pm
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 12:31:35 -0500, mimf <mimf DeleteThis @nospam.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 01:02:09 -0600, grinningdemon wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 05:27:48 -0000, Billy Bissette <baines DeleteThis @coastalnet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>grinningdemon <grinningdemon DeleteThis @austin.rr.com> wrote in
>>>news:nnkfj35kbmcltt7c458fe33e3dlmd5p7ut@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:25:22 +0000, Paul O'Brien
>>>> <paul DeleteThis @esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>THE X-AXIS
>>>>>11 November 2007
>>>>>================
>>>>>
>>>>>For more links, cover art, archived reviews, and information on the
>>>>>X-Axis mailing list, visit http://www.thexaxis.com
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------
>>>>>
>>>>>This week:
>>>>>
>>>>>UNCANNY X-MEN #492 - Messiah Complex, part 2 of 13
>>>>> by Ed Brubaker, Billy Tan, Danny Miki and Allan Martinez
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Somewhat against my better judgment, I'm rather enjoying "Messiah
>>>>>Complex" so far.
>>>>>
>>>>>I mean, yes, technically I can see all sorts of flaws in it. And I'll
>>>>>get to some of them in a bit. But it works at the most fundamental
>>>>>level - it convinces me that the birth of a new mutant is indeed a
>>>>>hugely significant event of dramatic importance.
>>>>>
>>>>>Admittedly, it doesn't face an uphill task to persuade me there. As
>>>I've
>>>>>discussed at some length in recent months, I'm now quite convinced
>>>that
>>>>>the M-Day storyline was disastrously misconceived, and needs to be
>>>fixed
>>>>>as a matter of urgency. Without doing that, there's really no book.
>>>So
>>>>>anything that seems, on the face of it, to be reversing M-Day even in
>>>>>part, is clearly a very good thing indeed (and a very important thing,
>>>>>because if they don't get this right, it's hard to see what sort of
>>>>>series they'll be left with).
>>>>>
>>>>>Perhaps my enthusiasm for the general concept is making me unduly
>>>>>forgiving. I certainly find it difficult to rationalise the fact that
>>>>>I'm more interested in this storyline than in Astonishing, except on
>>>the
>>>>>grounds that the stakes seem higher. After all, UNCANNY X-MEN's
>>>>>"Messiah Complex" chapter drifts in second when it comes to technique.
>>>>>
>>>>>Since "Messiah Complex" is a weekly storyline, it can get away with
>>>the
>>>>>sort of pacing that would be egregiously relaxed in a monthly title.
>>>So
>>>>>most of this chapter consists of the X-Men sitting around in their
>>>base,
>>>>>deciding what to do next. There's a rather gratuitous fight with some
>>>>>obscure Acolytes at the end of the issue, which looks decidedly as
>>>>>though it's been included to get some action into the book. But
>>>mainly,
>>>>>it's an issue of talking.
>>>>>
>>>>>Fortunately, this does allow Ed Brubaker to follow up on the storyline
>>>>>he began in Deadly Genesis, with Professor X marginalised from his own
>>>>>team now that Cyclops no longer trusts him. This is handled quite
>>>well,
>>>>>although it really does beg the question of why Brubaker has waited so
>>>>>many months to show us that Scott blames the Professor for the loss of
>>>>>his family as well. If he was going to use that as a major plot
>>>point,
>>>>>it should have been covered earlier than now. Still, now that we're
>>>>>getting to it, it's done well. A page of Xavier listlessly wandering
>>>>>the halls while the other X-Men make plans without inviting him is a
>>>>>nice moment.
>>>>
>>>> The thing that really gets me here is that Cyclops is the ONLY one who
>>>> doesn't trust him anymore. Granted, he has more reason to distrust
>>>> Xavier since it was his mind and family that was screwed with in Deadly
>>>> Genesis, but those events, along with the whole Danger Room debacle,
>>>> should have the other X-Men wondering what else he's done and if he's
>>>> ever played with their minds too...none of them should trust him...and
>>>> it bugs me that they all just kind of shrug their shoulders at this and
>>>> move on...I can't be the only one who thinks this is odd, can I?
>>>
>>> I think, or at least hope, we are supposed to be seeing Scott as
>>>going a bit too far in his anger.
>>>
>>> After all, Cyclops blames Xavier because Havoc decided to stay in
>>>space? That was Havoc's choice. Cyclops and Havoc may have had dustups
>>>in the past over decisions and who has authority, but Cyclops shouldn't
>>>have say over whether or not Havoc decides to follow in their dad's
>>>footsteps.
>>>
>>> And he blames Xavier for standing by while Corsair was killed. But
>>>what could Xavier do? And heck, what did Cyclops do? Cyclops sure
>>>didn't go into space to stop Vulcan. Cyclops didn't care enough to even
>>>warn Corsair that their disgruntled super-powered relative was heading
>>>his way with the death of the Shi'ar in mind and *maybe* some lethal
>>>family issues to work out. Though Cyclops sure wouldn't have been able
>>>to talk Corsair out of tackling Vulcan, so Corsair would probably have
>>>died no matter what.
>>>
>>> Cyclops can blame Xavier for the "creation" of Vulcan, but not
>>>really for more recent events. Xavier actually tried to fix things. What
>>>did Cyclops do? Cyclops just ignored the whole thing. He kicked Xavier
>>>out before the trip. And when Xavier came back, he just kicked him.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Uncanny does seem to carry the feeling that Xavier is going to do
>>>something stupid as a result of all this though...
>>
>> Xavier seriously messed with his head and erased his only memories of the
>> existence of his brother and set all the current events with Vulcan in
>> motion...and a whole team of X-Men he just swept under the rug...and he
>> apparently also erased Moira MacTaggert's memories of these people as she
>> had to leave a recording to remind her what had happened...as far as I'm
>> concerned, these are unforgiveable actions...none of the X-Men can trust
>> their memories of anything anymore...he even erased Emma's memory of
>> meeting Vulcan so even telepaths aren't immune...add the whole Danger Room
>> bit into the mix and Xavier has a whole hell of a lot to answer for...and
>> I don't think any of them should let him off the hook...certainly not so
>> easily...Cyclops is totally in the right as far as I'm concerned.
>
>
>Xavier did what he did out of love for Scott. Scott was freaking out at
>the time, when the original X-Men were lost on Krakoa. And later when
>Vulcan's team was lost, Scott wouldn't have been able to live with
>himself. No one knew how close Scott was to losing his mind than Xavier.
>It was for Scott's sake that Xavier erased the memory of the other team
>from existence, so Scott need never know. And I think that's why Scott is
>angrier at Xavier than the other X-Men. As for the others, what could they
>possibly say to Xavier that would make him feel any worse?
It doesn't matter why he did it...he did it...what right does he have
to decide what someone else should or should not remember? Scott was
his prize pupil and that was basically a mind-rape...and it's not an
issue of Scott being angrier than the other X-Men...THEY haven't been
shown to be angry or distrustful at all...none of them even seem to
care...I would certainly be wondering what ELSE Xavier did "out of
love." >> Stay informed about: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 |
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Since: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 107
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(Msg. 19) Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:33 am
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:20:27 -0600, grinningdemon wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 12:31:35 -0500, mimf <mimf.TakeThisOut@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 01:02:09 -0600, grinningdemon wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 05:27:48 -0000, Billy Bissette
>>> <baines.TakeThisOut@coastalnet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>grinningdemon <grinningdemon.TakeThisOut@austin.rr.com> wrote in
>>>>news:nnkfj35kbmcltt7c458fe33e3dlmd5p7ut@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:25:22 +0000, Paul O'Brien
>>>>> <paul.TakeThisOut@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>THE X-AXIS
>>>>>>11 November 2007
>>>>>>================
>>>>>>
>>>>>>For more links, cover art, archived reviews, and information on the
>>>>>>X-Axis mailing list, visit http://www.thexaxis.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This week:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>UNCANNY X-MEN #492 - Messiah Complex, part 2 of 13
>>>>>> by Ed Brubaker, Billy Tan, Danny Miki and Allan Martinez
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Somewhat against my better judgment, I'm rather enjoying "Messiah
>>>>>>Complex" so far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I mean, yes, technically I can see all sorts of flaws in it. And
>>>>>>I'll get to some of them in a bit. But it works at the most
>>>>>>fundamental level - it convinces me that the birth of a new mutant is
>>>>>>indeed a hugely significant event of dramatic importance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Admittedly, it doesn't face an uphill task to persuade me there. As
>>>>I've
>>>>>>discussed at some length in recent months, I'm now quite convinced
>>>>that
>>>>>>the M-Day storyline was disastrously misconceived, and needs to be
>>>>fixed
>>>>>>as a matter of urgency. Without doing that, there's really no book.
>>>>So
>>>>>>anything that seems, on the face of it, to be reversing M-Day even in
>>>>>>part, is clearly a very good thing indeed (and a very important
>>>>>>thing, because if they don't get this right, it's hard to see what
>>>>>>sort of series they'll be left with).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Perhaps my enthusiasm for the general concept is making me unduly
>>>>>>forgiving. I certainly find it difficult to rationalise the fact
>>>>>>that I'm more interested in this storyline than in Astonishing,
>>>>>>except on
>>>>the
>>>>>>grounds that the stakes seem higher. After all, UNCANNY X-MEN's
>>>>>>"Messiah Complex" chapter drifts in second when it comes to
>>>>>>technique.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Since "Messiah Complex" is a weekly storyline, it can get away with
>>>>the
>>>>>>sort of pacing that would be egregiously relaxed in a monthly title.
>>>>So
>>>>>>most of this chapter consists of the X-Men sitting around in their
>>>>base,
>>>>>>deciding what to do next. There's a rather gratuitous fight with
>>>>>>some obscure Acolytes at the end of the issue, which looks decidedly
>>>>>>as though it's been included to get some action into the book. But
>>>>mainly,
>>>>>>it's an issue of talking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Fortunately, this does allow Ed Brubaker to follow up on the
>>>>>>storyline he began in Deadly Genesis, with Professor X marginalised
>>>>>>from his own team now that Cyclops no longer trusts him. This is
>>>>>>handled quite
>>>>well,
>>>>>>although it really does beg the question of why Brubaker has waited
>>>>>>so many months to show us that Scott blames the Professor for the
>>>>>>loss of his family as well. If he was going to use that as a major
>>>>>>plot
>>>>point,
>>>>>>it should have been covered earlier than now. Still, now that we're
>>>>>>getting to it, it's done well. A page of Xavier listlessly wandering
>>>>>>the halls while the other X-Men make plans without inviting him is a
>>>>>>nice moment.
>>>>>
>>>>> The thing that really gets me here is that Cyclops is the ONLY one
>>>>> who doesn't trust him anymore. Granted, he has more reason to
>>>>> distrust Xavier since it was his mind and family that was screwed
>>>>> with in Deadly Genesis, but those events, along with the whole Danger
>>>>> Room debacle, should have the other X-Men wondering what else he's
>>>>> done and if he's ever played with their minds too...none of them
>>>>> should trust him...and it bugs me that they all just kind of shrug
>>>>> their shoulders at this and move on...I can't be the only one who
>>>>> thinks this is odd, can I?
>>>>
>>>> I think, or at least hope, we are supposed to be seeing Scott as
>>>>going a bit too far in his anger.
>>>>
>>>> After all, Cyclops blames Xavier because Havoc decided to stay in
>>>>space? That was Havoc's choice. Cyclops and Havoc may have had
>>>>dustups in the past over decisions and who has authority, but Cyclops
>>>>shouldn't have say over whether or not Havoc decides to follow in their
>>>>dad's footsteps.
>>>>
>>>> And he blames Xavier for standing by while Corsair was killed. But
>>>>what could Xavier do? And heck, what did Cyclops do? Cyclops sure
>>>>didn't go into space to stop Vulcan. Cyclops didn't care enough to
>>>>even warn Corsair that their disgruntled super-powered relative was
>>>>heading his way with the death of the Shi'ar in mind and *maybe* some
>>>>lethal family issues to work out. Though Cyclops sure wouldn't have
>>>>been able to talk Corsair out of tackling Vulcan, so Corsair would
>>>>probably have died no matter what.
>>>>
>>>> Cyclops can blame Xavier for the "creation" of Vulcan, but not
>>>>really for more recent events. Xavier actually tried to fix things.
>>>>What did Cyclops do? Cyclops just ignored the whole thing. He kicked
>>>>Xavier out before the trip. And when Xavier came back, he just kicked
>>>>him.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Uncanny does seem to carry the feeling that Xavier is going to do
>>>>something stupid as a result of all this though...
>>>
>>> Xavier seriously messed with his head and erased his only memories of
>>> the existence of his brother and set all the current events with Vulcan
>>> in motion...and a whole team of X-Men he just swept under the rug...and
>>> he apparently also erased Moira MacTaggert's memories of these people
>>> as she had to leave a recording to remind her what had happened...as
>>> far as I'm concerned, these are unforgiveable actions...none of the
>>> X-Men can trust their memories of anything anymore...he even erased
>>> Emma's memory of meeting Vulcan so even telepaths aren't immune...add
>>> the whole Danger Room bit into the mix and Xavier has a whole hell of a
>>> lot to answer for...and I don't think any of them should let him off
>>> the hook...certainly not so easily...Cyclops is totally in the right as
>>> far as I'm concerned.
>>
>>
>>Xavier did what he did out of love for Scott. Scott was freaking out at
>>the time, when the original X-Men were lost on Krakoa. And later when
>>Vulcan's team was lost, Scott wouldn't have been able to live with
>>himself. No one knew how close Scott was to losing his mind than Xavier.
>>It was for Scott's sake that Xavier erased the memory of the other team
>>from existence, so Scott need never know. And I think that's why Scott is
>>angrier at Xavier than the other X-Men. As for the others, what could
>>they possibly say to Xavier that would make him feel any worse?
>
> It doesn't matter why he did it...he did it...what right does he have to
> decide what someone else should or should not remember? Scott was his
> prize pupil and that was basically a mind-rape...
And what would have happened to Scott if Xavier hadn't done it? He might
very well have had some sort of mental breakdown where he retreated from
reality and became useless to everyone, including himself, for years. It's
not all that different from what he did to Jean after she experienced the
death of her best friend when her telepathy powers first manifested. He
did what he did to her because she couldn't handle it. Neither could Scott
handle losing a team at that point in his life. The difference is that
with Jean, he didn't keep it from her once she became strong enough to
know the truth. Why didn't he tell Scott when Scott became strong enough?
He should have, but I think he was afraid to -- didn't want to let Scott
and the others down -- didn't know Vulcan and Darwin were still alive. If
he had known they were alive, don't you think his decision would have been
different?
> and it's not an issue of Scott being angrier than the other X-Men...THEY
> haven't been shown to be angry or distrustful at all...none of them even
> seem to care...I would certainly be wondering what ELSE Xavier did "out
> of love."
What can they say to him about it? "We hate you now." "We trusted you and
look what you did." "You're a bastard." "We'll never trust you again."
They don't need to say any of that. He knows it already. They're shunning
him, which is worse to him than if they yelled at him. They're probably
not even allowing themselves to feel any emotion at all towards him, since
he'd probably sense any strong feelings from them. >> Stay informed about: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 |
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Since: Sep 22, 2006 Posts: 203
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(Msg. 20) Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:07 am
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 01:33:29 -0500, mimf <mimf DeleteThis @nospam.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:20:27 -0600, grinningdemon wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 12:31:35 -0500, mimf <mimf DeleteThis @nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 01:02:09 -0600, grinningdemon wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 05:27:48 -0000, Billy Bissette
>>>> <baines DeleteThis @coastalnet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>grinningdemon <grinningdemon DeleteThis @austin.rr.com> wrote in
>>>>>news:nnkfj35kbmcltt7c458fe33e3dlmd5p7ut@4ax.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:25:22 +0000, Paul O'Brien
>>>>>> <paul DeleteThis @esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>THE X-AXIS
>>>>>>>11 November 2007
>>>>>>>================
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>For more links, cover art, archived reviews, and information on the
>>>>>>>X-Axis mailing list, visit http://www.thexaxis.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This week:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>UNCANNY X-MEN #492 - Messiah Complex, part 2 of 13
>>>>>>> by Ed Brubaker, Billy Tan, Danny Miki and Allan Martinez
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Somewhat against my better judgment, I'm rather enjoying "Messiah
>>>>>>>Complex" so far.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I mean, yes, technically I can see all sorts of flaws in it. And
>>>>>>>I'll get to some of them in a bit. But it works at the most
>>>>>>>fundamental level - it convinces me that the birth of a new mutant is
>>>>>>>indeed a hugely significant event of dramatic importance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Admittedly, it doesn't face an uphill task to persuade me there. As
>>>>>I've
>>>>>>>discussed at some length in recent months, I'm now quite convinced
>>>>>that
>>>>>>>the M-Day storyline was disastrously misconceived, and needs to be
>>>>>fixed
>>>>>>>as a matter of urgency. Without doing that, there's really no book.
>>>>>So
>>>>>>>anything that seems, on the face of it, to be reversing M-Day even in
>>>>>>>part, is clearly a very good thing indeed (and a very important
>>>>>>>thing, because if they don't get this right, it's hard to see what
>>>>>>>sort of series they'll be left with).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Perhaps my enthusiasm for the general concept is making me unduly
>>>>>>>forgiving. I certainly find it difficult to rationalise the fact
>>>>>>>that I'm more interested in this storyline than in Astonishing,
>>>>>>>except on
>>>>>the
>>>>>>>grounds that the stakes seem higher. After all, UNCANNY X-MEN's
>>>>>>>"Messiah Complex" chapter drifts in second when it comes to
>>>>>>>technique.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Since "Messiah Complex" is a weekly storyline, it can get away with
>>>>>the
>>>>>>>sort of pacing that would be egregiously relaxed in a monthly title.
>>>>>So
>>>>>>>most of this chapter consists of the X-Men sitting around in their
>>>>>base,
>>>>>>>deciding what to do next. There's a rather gratuitous fight with
>>>>>>>some obscure Acolytes at the end of the issue, which looks decidedly
>>>>>>>as though it's been included to get some action into the book. But
>>>>>mainly,
>>>>>>>it's an issue of talking.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Fortunately, this does allow Ed Brubaker to follow up on the
>>>>>>>storyline he began in Deadly Genesis, with Professor X marginalised
>>>>>>>from his own team now that Cyclops no longer trusts him. This is
>>>>>>>handled quite
>>>>>well,
>>>>>>>although it really does beg the question of why Brubaker has waited
>>>>>>>so many months to show us that Scott blames the Professor for the
>>>>>>>loss of his family as well. If he was going to use that as a major
>>>>>>>plot
>>>>>point,
>>>>>>>it should have been covered earlier than now. Still, now that we're
>>>>>>>getting to it, it's done well. A page of Xavier listlessly wandering
>>>>>>>the halls while the other X-Men make plans without inviting him is a
>>>>>>>nice moment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The thing that really gets me here is that Cyclops is the ONLY one
>>>>>> who doesn't trust him anymore. Granted, he has more reason to
>>>>>> distrust Xavier since it was his mind and family that was screwed
>>>>>> with in Deadly Genesis, but those events, along with the whole Danger
>>>>>> Room debacle, should have the other X-Men wondering what else he's
>>>>>> done and if he's ever played with their minds too...none of them
>>>>>> should trust him...and it bugs me that they all just kind of shrug
>>>>>> their shoulders at this and move on...I can't be the only one who
>>>>>> thinks this is odd, can I?
>>>>>
>>>>> I think, or at least hope, we are supposed to be seeing Scott as
>>>>>going a bit too far in his anger.
>>>>>
>>>>> After all, Cyclops blames Xavier because Havoc decided to stay in
>>>>>space? That was Havoc's choice. Cyclops and Havoc may have had
>>>>>dustups in the past over decisions and who has authority, but Cyclops
>>>>>shouldn't have say over whether or not Havoc decides to follow in their
>>>>>dad's footsteps.
>>>>>
>>>>> And he blames Xavier for standing by while Corsair was killed. But
>>>>>what could Xavier do? And heck, what did Cyclops do? Cyclops sure
>>>>>didn't go into space to stop Vulcan. Cyclops didn't care enough to
>>>>>even warn Corsair that their disgruntled super-powered relative was
>>>>>heading his way with the death of the Shi'ar in mind and *maybe* some
>>>>>lethal family issues to work out. Though Cyclops sure wouldn't have
>>>>>been able to talk Corsair out of tackling Vulcan, so Corsair would
>>>>>probably have died no matter what.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cyclops can blame Xavier for the "creation" of Vulcan, but not
>>>>>really for more recent events. Xavier actually tried to fix things.
>>>>>What did Cyclops do? Cyclops just ignored the whole thing. He kicked
>>>>>Xavier out before the trip. And when Xavier came back, he just kicked
>>>>>him.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Uncanny does seem to carry the feeling that Xavier is going to do
>>>>>something stupid as a result of all this though...
>>>>
>>>> Xavier seriously messed with his head and erased his only memories of
>>>> the existence of his brother and set all the current events with Vulcan
>>>> in motion...and a whole team of X-Men he just swept under the rug...and
>>>> he apparently also erased Moira MacTaggert's memories of these people
>>>> as she had to leave a recording to remind her what had happened...as
>>>> far as I'm concerned, these are unforgiveable actions...none of the
>>>> X-Men can trust their memories of anything anymore...he even erased
>>>> Emma's memory of meeting Vulcan so even telepaths aren't immune...add
>>>> the whole Danger Room bit into the mix and Xavier has a whole hell of a
>>>> lot to answer for...and I don't think any of them should let him off
>>>> the hook...certainly not so easily...Cyclops is totally in the right as
>>>> far as I'm concerned.
>>>
>>>
>>>Xavier did what he did out of love for Scott. Scott was freaking out at
>>>the time, when the original X-Men were lost on Krakoa. And later when
>>>Vulcan's team was lost, Scott wouldn't have been able to live with
>>>himself. No one knew how close Scott was to losing his mind than Xavier.
>>>It was for Scott's sake that Xavier erased the memory of the other team
>>>from existence, so Scott need never know. And I think that's why Scott is
>>>angrier at Xavier than the other X-Men. As for the others, what could
>>>they possibly say to Xavier that would make him feel any worse?
>>
>> It doesn't matter why he did it...he did it...what right does he have to
>> decide what someone else should or should not remember? Scott was his
>> prize pupil and that was basically a mind-rape...
>
>And what would have happened to Scott if Xavier hadn't done it? He might
>very well have had some sort of mental breakdown where he retreated from
>reality and became useless to everyone, including himself, for years. It's
>not all that different from what he did to Jean after she experienced the
>death of her best friend when her telepathy powers first manifested. He
>did what he did to her because she couldn't handle it. Neither could Scott
>handle losing a team at that point in his life. The difference is that
>with Jean, he didn't keep it from her once she became strong enough to
>know the truth. Why didn't he tell Scott when Scott became strong enough?
>He should have, but I think he was afraid to -- didn't want to let Scott
>and the others down -- didn't know Vulcan and Darwin were still alive. If
>he had known they were alive, don't you think his decision would have been
>different?
It's very different from what Xavier did for Jean...he didn't take
Jean's memories of her friend away...he just put of blocks to keep her
from using her powers until she was older.
As for Scott, a telepath as powerful and experienced as Xavier could
have found a way to help short of erasing large chunks of his memory
(he survived Jean's death several times more or less intact and he
even thought Havok was dead once before and didn't go all nutty over
it)...and it wasn't just Scott, remember? He also erased other
peoples' memories to cover up what he did (Moira and Emma, at
least)...this wasn't just about helping Scott...he was trying to cover
his own ass.
It doesn't matter if he Vulcan and Darwin were alive or not, Scott had
the right to know the truth...and to know about his own brother.
>
>> and it's not an issue of Scott being angrier than the other X-Men...THEY
>> haven't been shown to be angry or distrustful at all...none of them even
>> seem to care...I would certainly be wondering what ELSE Xavier did "out
>> of love."
>
>What can they say to him about it? "We hate you now." "We trusted you and
>look what you did." "You're a bastard." "We'll never trust you again."
>They don't need to say any of that. He knows it already. They're shunning
>him, which is worse to him than if they yelled at him. They're probably
>not even allowing themselves to feel any emotion at all towards him, since
>he'd probably sense any strong feelings from them.
The "shunning" isn't really coming across all that much (other than
Scott leaving him out of the decision-making process)...and it would
only make sense that at least some of the X-Men would confront him
over this...hell, at the very least, Darwin should be pissed at
him...he basically erased all memory of his existence. >> Stay informed about: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 |
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Since: Jul 03, 2007 Posts: 185
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(Msg. 21) Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:38 am
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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mimf <mimf.RemoveThis@nospam.com> wrote in
news:pan.2007.11.13.17.31.33.365559@nospam.com:
> Xavier did what he did out of love for Scott. Scott was freaking out
> at the time, when the original X-Men were lost on Krakoa.
Funny how he's gotten by in worse situations.
And later
> when Vulcan's team was lost, Scott wouldn't have been able to live
> with himself.
Yet, he did nothing even remotely close to this when Scott lost the love
of his life. She meant more to him than a brother he'd never known.
No one knew how close Scott was to losing his mind than
> Xavier. It was for Scott's sake that Xavier erased the memory of the
> other team from existence, so Scott need never know.
He could suppress the =emotions= for a bit, but not the memories.
There's really no excuse for what Xavier did.
And I think
> that's why Scott is angrier at Xavier than the other X-Men. As for the
> others, what could they possibly say to Xavier that would make him
> feel any worse?
I agree. >> Stay informed about: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 |
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Since: Jul 03, 2007 Posts: 185
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(Msg. 22) Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:13 pm
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mimf <mimf.RemoveThis@nospam.com> wrote in
news:pan.2007.11.14.06.33.27.475421@nospam.com:
>> It doesn't matter why he did it...he did it...what right does he have
>> to decide what someone else should or should not remember? Scott was
>> his prize pupil and that was basically a mind-rape...
>
> And what would have happened to Scott if Xavier hadn't done it? He
> might very well have had some sort of mental breakdown where he
> retreated from reality and became useless to everyone, including
> himself, for years. It's not all that different from what he did to
> Jean after she experienced the death of her best friend when her
> telepathy powers first manifested. He did what he did to her because
> she couldn't handle it.
IIRC, all Xavier did was suppress Jean's telepathy, not the memory of the
event.
Neither could Scott handle losing a team at
> that point in his life. The difference is that with Jean, he didn't
> keep it from her once she became strong enough to know the truth. Why
> didn't he tell Scott when Scott became strong enough? He should have,
> but I think he was afraid to -- didn't want to let Scott and the
> others down -- didn't know Vulcan and Darwin were still alive. If he
> had known they were alive, don't you think his decision would have
> been different?
It boils down to self-interest. Xavier didn't want to be bothered dealing
with it all. People have to live with all kinds of horrible things in
life. Based on everything I've seen with Cyclops, he could have handled
this. >> Stay informed about: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 |
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Since: Jul 03, 2007 Posts: 185
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(Msg. 23) Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:19 pm
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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The Black Guardian <blakgard.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in
news:1194950933.715909.214580@v2g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
> IMO, Scott (and others) are severely overreacting. If I had a brother
> like Vulcan (even before Krakoa), I'd want my memories erased too.
Would you? Prior to his reawakening, all Vulcan did was rescue the
X-Men. You'd really want that erased?
> Xavier used a sentient computer, almost as a slave? Big freaking deal.
> It's a computer.
It's analogous to enslaving the Vision.
> And NOW, is the time for Xavier to kick all of those free-loading
> brats out of HIS HOUSE, once and for all. He's damned near spent a
> million dollars on each of them since they've been there. Do they
> work? Not a one. Enough is enough!
It's not his house anymore. >> Stay informed about: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 |
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Since: Jul 03, 2007 Posts: 185
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(Msg. 24) Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:24 pm
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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badbad <user.TakeThisOut@example.net> wrote in
news:qUm_i.68367$YL5.27989@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net:
> Xavier is willing to re-write memories (ala Zatanna) but specifically
> of his friends (even "WORSE" than Zatanna). This is a very bad
> precedent for Brubaker to make. Why doesn't Xavier do this on anyone
> who is a threat to the X-Men?
Xavier rewrote memories in the era of the original X-Men. This is
nothing new. He changed at some point because we know he wasn't doing
that anymore by the time he met Kitty Pryde. Jean used her telepathy to
placate the Pryde's when Emma and Xavier were both courting Kitty for
their schools. I seem to remember Xavier being surprised and
disapproving.
The writer cannot unmake this situation
> and whenever the X-Men or mutants in general are threatened, Xavier
> "should" always use this option. There is no moral or ethical
> component to contradict Xavier' choice because he is clearly working
> without a sense of ethics.
>
> Are we now willing to accept that he has now seen the light and won't
> do it again? I would piss on the writer who makes such a cowardly
> proposition.
I would say, as a general rule, that he doesn't plan to use that option. >> Stay informed about: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 |
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Since: Nov 13, 2007 Posts: 12
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(Msg. 25) Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:11 pm
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Dan McEwen wrote:
> badbad <user.RemoveThis@example.net> wrote in
> news:qUm_i.68367$YL5.27989@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net:
>
>> Xavier is willing to re-write memories (ala Zatanna) but specifically
>> of his friends (even "WORSE" than Zatanna). This is a very bad
>> precedent for Brubaker to make. Why doesn't Xavier do this on anyone
>> who is a threat to the X-Men?
>
> Xavier rewrote memories in the era of the original X-Men. This is
> nothing new. He changed at some point because we know he wasn't doing
> that anymore by the time he met Kitty Pryde. Jean used her telepathy to
> placate the Pryde's when Emma and Xavier were both courting Kitty for
> their schools. I seem to remember Xavier being surprised and
> disapproving.
>
> The writer cannot unmake this situation
>> and whenever the X-Men or mutants in general are threatened, Xavier
>> "should" always use this option. There is no moral or ethical
>> component to contradict Xavier' choice because he is clearly working
>> without a sense of ethics.
>>
>> Are we now willing to accept that he has now seen the light and won't
>> do it again? I would piss on the writer who makes such a cowardly
>> proposition.
>
> I would say, as a general rule, that he doesn't plan to use that option.
I don't recall Xavier rewriting the memory of an innocent. This will
enter the semantic realm but I do believe the devil is in the details.
I do believe you may be correct that Xavier won't use that option again.
But it is now an option unemcumbered by the past history because
according to Brubaker, he did it before.
In prior issues, Xavier may have placated some, like people who saw the
X-Men without their masks. He may have edited memories to make it seem
that he is in one place when he is at another or to make him look
different. I cede this point. But let us follow that train of thought.
To whit, Xavier is now on record as editing the thoughts of people in
order to cover up his questionable actions. Based on Brubaker's
writing, the death of the first X-Men was so damaging to Scott that he
had to erase the knowledge of a brother he has known his entire life.
Xavier feels so assured in his actions that he edits Moira MacTaggert's
memory removing her choice in the matter. And others who could voice an
opinion too. That seems like the act of a person who is innnocent
doesn't it?
Not.
I believe the editing of Scott's memories is non-consensual and immoral.
Some people would argue otherwise. But no one can argue that the
coverup is criminal.
When the Zatanna mind wipe storyline meandered thru the DC Universe I
actually couldn't understand the problem. I actually agreed with Zatanna
erasing the mind of Dr. Light. I didn't find it to be an ethical issue
which would shatter the "trust" between villains and heroes.
Rhetorically speaking, do you think Poison Ivy or Luthor would care what
happened to a rapist like Dr. Light? I didn't buy into the premise or
the reactions of characters faced with the issue.
There is a difference between Dr. Light and Scott Summers. Dr. Light
would have used the information to harm people. Scott Summers would
have had a nervous breakdown or left the X-Men. Xavier has manipulated
people for a self serving purpose (Really Brubaker has written Xavier as
doing it) and painted him into a corner.
What "lesson" is the current Xavier learning that would prevent him from
doing it again. A stern look from Cyclops? Especially after he is on
record on doing it to a former lover like Moira the option is now on the
table.
That is an essential problem with taking history and adding "new" events
in the past. This type of writing cannot happen in a vacuum - all of
Xaviers actions now have to come into scrutiny and the reassessment is
that Xavier is a villain. Not a mustache-twirling black cape villain but
a villain nonetheless.
badbad. >> Stay informed about: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 |
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Since: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 107
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(Msg. 26) Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:33 pm
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 12:19:54 +0000, Dan McEwen wrote:
> The Black Guardian <blakgard RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in
> news:1194950933.715909.214580@v2g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
>
>> IMO, Scott (and others) are severely overreacting. If I had a brother
>> like Vulcan (even before Krakoa), I'd want my memories erased too.
>
> Would you? Prior to his reawakening, all Vulcan did was rescue the X-Men.
> You'd really want that erased?
>
>> Xavier used a sentient computer, almost as a slave? Big freaking deal.
>> It's a computer.
>
> It's analogous to enslaving the Vision.
I never understood why Xavier didn't just change Danger's programming so
it would get pleasure out of testing the X-Men to their limits, short of
actually killing them. More like "playing" with them.
>> And NOW, is the time for Xavier to kick all of those free-loading brats
>> out of HIS HOUSE, once and for all. He's damned near spent a million
>> dollars on each of them since they've been there. Do they work? Not a
>> one. Enough is enough!
>
> It's not his house anymore.
When did it stop being his house? He may have faked his death a couple of
times (at least once anyway), but didn't he get all his money and property
back after his return? >> Stay informed about: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 |
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Since: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 107
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(Msg. 27) Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:44 pm
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:38:05 +0000, Dan McEwen wrote:
> mimf <mimf DeleteThis @nospam.com> wrote in
> news:pan.2007.11.13.17.31.33.365559@nospam.com:
>
>
>> Xavier did what he did out of love for Scott. Scott was freaking out at
>> the time, when the original X-Men were lost on Krakoa.
>
> Funny how he's gotten by in worse situations.
Before or since then? For whatever reason, he was in bad shape at the
time.
> And later
>> when Vulcan's team was lost, Scott wouldn't have been able to live with
>> himself.
>
> Yet, he did nothing even remotely close to this when Scott lost the love
> of his life. She meant more to him than a brother he'd never known.
It wasn't about losing a brother.
> No one knew how close Scott was to losing his mind than
>> Xavier. It was for Scott's sake that Xavier erased the memory of the
>> other team from existence, so Scott need never know.
>
> He could suppress the =emotions= for a bit, but not the memories.
> There's really no excuse for what Xavier did.
I don't assume that Xavier was in much better shape than Scott at the time
it was all happening. I think Xavier was something of a wreck himself
around that time, starting just after the original X-Team was taken by
Krakoa. Xavier wanted to help Scott, didn't know what to do, everything he
could think of had problems but he had to do something, so this is what
he came up with. Maybe it's what he would have wanted for himself -- not
to have to deal with the memories.
> And I think
>> that's why Scott is angrier at Xavier than the other X-Men. As for the
>> others, what could they possibly say to Xavier that would make him feel
>> any worse?
>
> I agree. >> Stay informed about: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 |
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Since: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 107
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(Msg. 28) Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:02 pm
Post subject: Re: REVIEWS: The X-Axis - 11 November 2007 [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 03:07:13 -0600, grinningdemon wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 01:33:29 -0500, mimf <mimf DeleteThis @nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:20:27 -0600, grinningdemon wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 12:31:35 -0500, mimf <mimf DeleteThis @nospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 01:02:09 -0600, grinningdemon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 05:27:48 -0000, Billy Bissette
>>>>> <baines DeleteThis @coastalnet.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>grinningdemon <grinningdemon DeleteThis @austin.rr.com> wrote in
>>>>>>news:nnkfj35kbmcltt7c458fe33e3dlmd5p7ut@4ax.com:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 21:25:22 +0000, Paul O'Brien
>>>>>>> <paul DeleteThis @esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>THE X-AXIS
>>>>>>>>11 November 2007
>>>>>>>>================
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>For more links, cover art, archived reviews, and information on the
>>>>>>>>X-Axis mailing list, visit http://www.thexaxis.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This week:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>UNCANNY X-MEN #492 - Messiah Complex, part 2 of 13
>>>>>>>> by Ed Brubaker, Billy Tan, Danny Miki and Allan Martinez
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Somewhat against my better judgment, I'm rather enjoying "Messiah
>>>>>>>>Complex" so far.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I mean, yes, technically I can see all sorts of flaws in it. And
>>>>>>>>I'll get to some of them in a bit. But it works at the most
>>>>>>>>fundamental level - it convinces me that the birth of a new mutant
>>>>>>>>is indeed a hugely significant event of dramatic importance.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Admittedly, it doesn't face an uphill task to persuade me there. As
>>>>>>I've
>>>>>>>>discussed at some length in recent months, I'm now quite convinced
>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>>the M-Day storyline was disastrously misconceived, and needs to be
>>>>>>fixed
>>>>>>>>as a matter of urgency. Without doing that, there's really no
>>>>>>>>book.
>>>>>>So
>>>>>>>>anything that seems, on the face of it, to be reversing M-Day even
>>>>>>>>in part, is clearly a very good thing indeed (and a very important
>>>>>>>>thing, because if they don't get this right, it's hard to see what
>>>>>>>>sort of series they'll be left with).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Perhaps my enthusiasm for the general concept is making me unduly
>>>>>>>>forgiving. I certainly find it difficult to rationalise the fact
>>>>>>>>that I'm more interested in this storyline than in Astonishing,
>>>>>>>>except on
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>grounds that the stakes seem higher. After all, UNCANNY X-MEN's
>>>>>>>>"Messiah Complex" chapter drifts in second when it comes to
>>>>>>>>technique.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Since "Messiah Complex" is a weekly storyline, it can get away with
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>sort of pacing that would be egregiously relaxed in a monthly
>>>>>>>>title.
>>>>>>So
>>>>>>>>most of this chapter consists of the X-Men sitting around in their
>>>>>>base,
>>>>>>>>deciding what to do next. There's a rather gratuitous fight with
>>>>>>>>some obscure Acolytes at the end of the issue, which looks
>>>>>>>>decidedly as though it's been included to get some action into the
>>>>>>>>book. But
>>>>>>mainly,
>>>>>>>>it's an issue of talking.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Fortunately, this does allow Ed Brubaker to follow up on the
>>>>>>>>storyline he began in Deadly Genesis, with Professor X marginalised
>>>>>>>>from his own team now that Cyclops no longer trusts him. This is
>>>>>>>>handled quite
>>>>>>well,
>>>>>>>>although it really does beg the question of why Brubaker has waited
>>>>>>>>so many months to show us that Scott blames the Professor for the
>>>>>>>>loss of his family as well. If he was going to use that as a major
>>>>>>>>plot
>>>>>>point,
>>>>>>>>it should have been covered earlier than now. Still, now that
>>>>>>>>we're getting to it, it's done well. A page of Xavier listlessly
>>>>>>>>wandering the halls while the other X-Men make plans without
>>>>>>>>inviting him is a nice moment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The thing that really gets me here is that Cyclops is the ONLY one
>>>>>>> who doesn't trust him anymore. Granted, he has more reason to
>>>>>>> distrust Xavier since it was his mind and family that was screwed
>>>>>>> with in Deadly Genesis, but those events, along with the whole
>>>>>>> Danger Room debacle, should have the other X-Men wondering what
>>>>>>> else he's done and if he's ever played with their minds too...none
>>>>>>> of them should trust him...and it bugs me that they all just kind
>>>>>>> of shrug their shoulders at this and move on...I can't be the only
>>>>>>> one who thinks this is odd, can I?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think, or at least hope, we are supposed to be seeing Scott as
>>>>>>going a bit too far in his anger.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After all, Cyclops blames Xavier because Havoc decided to stay in
>>>>>>space? That was Havoc's choice. Cyclops and Havoc may have had
>>>>>>dustups in the past over decisions and who has authority, but Cyclops
>>>>>>shouldn't have say over whether or not Havoc decides to follow in
>>>>>>their dad's footsteps.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And he blames Xavier for standing by while Corsair was killed. But
>>>>>>what could Xavier do? And heck, what did Cyclops do? Cyclops sure
>>>>>>didn't go into space to stop Vulcan. Cyclops didn't care enough to
>>>>>>even warn Corsair that their disgruntled super-powered relative was
>>>>>>heading his way with the death of the Shi'ar in mind and *maybe* some
>>>>>>lethal family issues to work out. Though Cyclops sure wouldn't have
>>>>>>been able to talk Corsair out of tackling Vulcan, so Corsair would
>>>>>>probably have died no matter what.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cyclops can blame Xavier for the "creation" of Vulcan, but not
>>>>>>really for more recent events. Xavier actually tried to fix things.
>>>>>>What did Cyclops do? Cyclops just ignored the whole thing. He
>>>>>>kicked Xavier out before the trip. And when Xavier came back, he
>>>>>>just kicked him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Uncanny does seem to carry the feeling that Xavier is going to do
>>>>>>something stupid as a result of all this though...
>>>>>
>>>>> Xavier seriously messed with his head and erased his only memories of
>>>>> the existence of his brother and set all the current events with
>>>>> Vulcan in motion...and a whole team of X-Men he just swept under the
>>>>> rug...and he apparently also erased Moira MacTaggert's memories of
>>>>> these people as she had to leave a recording to remind her what had
>>>>> happened...as far as I'm concerned, these are unforgiveable
>>>>> actions...none of the X-Men can trust their memories of anything
>>>>> anymore...he even erased Emma's memory of meeting Vulcan so even
>>>>> telepaths aren't immune...add the whole Danger Room bit into the mix
>>>>> and Xavier has a whole hell of a lot to answer for...and I don't
>>>>> think any of them should let him off the hook...certainly not so
>>>>> easily...Cyclops is totally in the right as far as I'm concerned.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Xavier did what he did out of love for Scott. Scott was freaking out at
>>>>the time, when the original X-Men were lost on Krakoa. And later when
>>>>Vulcan's team was lost, Scott wouldn't have been able to live with
>>>>himself. No one knew how close Scott was to losing his mind than
>>>>Xavier. It was for Scott's sake that Xavier erased the memory of the
>>>>other team from existence, so Scott need never know. And I think that's
>>>>why Scott is angrier at Xavier than the other X-Men. As for the others,
>>>>what could they possibly say to Xavier that would make him feel any
>>>>worse?
>>>
>>> It doesn't matter why he did it...he did it...what right does he have
>>> to decide what someone else should or should not remember? Scott was
>>> his prize pupil and that was basically a mind-rape...
>>
>>And what would have happened to Scott if Xavier hadn't done it? He might
>>very well have had some sort of mental breakdown where he retreated from
>>reality and became useless to everyone, including himself, for years.
>>It's not all that different from what he did to Jean after she
>>experienced the death of her best friend when her telepathy powers first
>>manifested. He did what he did to her because she couldn't handle it.
>>Neither could Scott handle losing a team at that point in his life. The
>>difference is that with Jean, he didn't keep it from her once she became
>>strong enough to know the truth. Why didn't he tell Scott when Scott
>>became strong enough? He should have, but I think he was afraid to --
>>didn't want to let Scott and the others down -- didn't know Vulcan and
>>Darwin were still alive. If he had known they were alive, don't you think
>>his decision would have been different?
>
> It's very different from what Xavier did for Jean...he didn't take Jean's
> memories of her friend away...he just put of blocks to keep her from using
> her powers until she was older.
He also numbed her memories of the event. I'm not sure to what extent.
I don't th | | |
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