RINGWORLD'S CHILDREN - no spoilers

anim8rfsk.TakeThisOut@aol.comNOSPAM (ANIM8Rfsk) writes:
 >First - avoid the 'cast of characters' at the beginning of the book - who needs
 >to know the names and histories of people that don't even show up 'til the last
 >chapter, and who's possible existence is a plot point? Sheesh.

N&P have been putting 'dramatis personae' lists in their books for a long
time, and yeah, it's dumb, especially when it gives away plot points. If
you must have one (and sometimes, such as in MOGE, it is nice to have a
scorecard), put it at the END.

 >Second - man, they needed an editor who was actually familiar with the
 >Ringworld books. It's full of annoying mistakes like saying Teela was in her
 >30s when they first came to the arch, when she was 20.

Based on his last few books, Larry Niven has told his publishers that he
will not tolerate an editor. It's one of the symptoms of the brain-eater.

 >But the final word is, hey, it's a Ringworld novel, and it's by Niven. It's
 >way better than THRONE. It's not as tough to read as THRONE was, although
 >stylistically it's more like THRONE than it is like ENGINEERS or RW. I'm not

Meaning it jumps all over the place so severely that you need to wear a
neckbrace after finishing it?

 >I wish it was longer. I wanted more! I guess that sums it up pretty well.

That's certainly promising. I actually finished THRONE with my sanity more
or less intact (such as it is). "The Gripping Hand" had me wanting to gnaw
my arm off. If I saw the words "tail chase" one more time I would have
broken a window. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: RINGWORLD'S CHILDREN - no spoilers 

<< From: pv+usenet@pobox.com (Paul Vader) >>


<< N&P have been putting 'dramatis personae' lists in their books for a long
time, and yeah, it's dumb >>

My first reaction was 'what the hell? this isn't a P book!'


<< Based on his last few books, Larry Niven has told his publishers that he
will not tolerate an editor. It's one of the symptoms of the brain-eater. >>

Then at least a fact checker. Plenty of us around here would have
volunteered!!!


<< although
 >stylistically it's more like THRONE than it is like ENGINEERS or RW. I'm not

Meaning it jumps all over the place so severely that you need to wear a
neckbrace after finishing it? >>

Not nearly as bad. But it does have that bad habit of describing a scene by
having several lines of different character's dialog which I find hard to
follow.


<< >I wish it was longer. I wanted more! I guess that sums it up pretty well.

That's certainly promising. I actually finished THRONE with my sanity more
or less intact (such as it is). >>

If you aren't careful, the denouement of RWC may drive you mad!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: RINGWORLD'S CHILDREN - no spoilers 

In article <20040610153513.15944.00000754 RemoveThis @mb-m16.aol.com>,
ANIM8Rfsk <anim8rfsk RemoveThis @aol.comNOSPAM> wrote:
 ><< From: pv+usenet@pobox.com (Paul Vader) >>
 >
 >
 ><< N&P have been putting 'dramatis personae' lists in their books for a long
 >time, and yeah, it's dumb >>
 >
 >My first reaction was 'what the hell? this isn't a P book!'
 >
 >
 ><< Based on his last few books, Larry Niven has told his publishers that he
 >will not tolerate an editor. It's one of the symptoms of the brain-eater. >>
 >
 > Then at least a fact checker. Plenty of us around here would have
 >volunteered!!!
 >
  Actually, Niven goes out of his way to praise editors in
_Scatterbrain_. I'm saving that comment for the next time I think
rasfw needs another 1500 post Editors: threat or menace thread,
along with King's comment that anyone who thinks sales = quality
for the next Do Sales = Quality thread.

  If Niven isn't getting the editing he needs, I don't think
the problem is Niven deliberately refusing to be edited. It might
be editors are too intimidated by him or other factors, but not
Godhimselfcouldnotimprovethismanuscriptitus.
--
"The keywords for tonight are Caution and Flammability."
    JFK, _Bubba Ho Tep_<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: RINGWORLD'S CHILDREN - no spoilers 

In article <caadjp$juk$1@panix3.panix.com>,
James Nicoll <jdnicoll.DeleteThis@panix.com> wrote:
 >In article <20040610153513.15944.00000754.DeleteThis@mb-m16.aol.com>,
 >ANIM8Rfsk <anim8rfsk.DeleteThis@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote:
  >><< From: pv+usenet@pobox.com (Paul Vader) >>
  >>
  >>
  >><< N&P have been putting 'dramatis personae' lists in their books for a long
  >>time, and yeah, it's dumb >>
  >>
  >>My first reaction was 'what the hell? this isn't a P book!'
  >>
  >>
  >><< Based on his last few books, Larry Niven has told his publishers that he
  >>will not tolerate an editor. It's one of the symptoms of the brain-eater. >>
  >>
  >> Then at least a fact checker. Plenty of us around here would have
  >>volunteered!!!
  >>
  > Actually, Niven goes out of his way to praise editors in
 >_Scatterbrain_. I'm saving that comment for the next time I think
 >rasfw needs another 1500 post Editors: threat or menace thread,
 >along with King's comment that anyone who thinks sales = quality

is a nitwit

 >for the next Do Sales = Quality thread.
 >
  I blame my editor for that sentence fragment.
--
"The keywords for tonight are Caution and Flammability."
    JFK, _Bubba Ho Tep_<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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jdnicoll.RemoveThis@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
  > More and more I am convinced the Ringworld makes no sense at
 >all as a Pak construction. The Pak would -never- put breeders on a
 >structure as prone to rapid catastrophe as the RW.

You should have read Throne (or rather, you shouldn't). There's even more
in there to make the whole last quarter of _Engineers_ make no sense. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: RINGWORLD'S CHILDREN - no spoilers 

In article <10chi276luckc97 RemoveThis @news.supernews.com>,
Paul Vader <pv+usenet@pobox.com> wrote:
 >jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
   >> More and more I am convinced the Ringworld makes no sense at
  >>all as a Pak construction. The Pak would -never- put breeders on a
  >>structure as prone to rapid catastrophe as the RW.
 >
 >You should have read Throne (or rather, you shouldn't). There's even more
 >in there to make the whole last quarter of _Engineers_ make no sense. *

  I think someone like the Puppeteers or the Outsiders built it,
as a garden for interesting lifeforms. The Pak just stumbled across it
and infested it.

  The fragility of the RW is deliberate, to give the Builders a
way to deal with the zoo animals getting out of hand. If only Jurassic
Park had been on a RW...
--
"The keywords for tonight are Caution and Flammability."
    JFK, _Bubba Ho Tep_<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: RINGWORLD'S CHILDREN - no spoilers 

 >The fragility of the RW is deliberate, to give the Builders a
 >way to deal with the zoo animals getting out of hand. If only Jurassic
 >Park had been on a RW...

Too expensive. If they have that kind of energy, it's much easier to settle
the critters on a not-very-good planet, and if the experiment goes south, drop
it into its sun. No wasting an entire star system worth of stuff.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: RINGWORLD'S CHILDREN - no spoilers 

geddiea95.DeleteThis@aol.com (G EddieA95) wrote in
news:20040611184418.09801.00000847@mb-m06.aol.com:

  >>The fragility of the RW is deliberate, to give the Builders a
  >>way to deal with the zoo animals getting out of hand. If only Jurassic
  >>Park had been on a RW...
 >
 > Too expensive. If they have that kind of energy, it's much easier to
 > settle the critters on a not-very-good planet, and if the experiment
 > goes south, drop it into its sun. No wasting an entire star system
 > worth of stuff.
 >

Perhaps they didn't have enough critters to play with. Making a shiny toy
like the RW attracts a technological spacegoing species who can then be
introduced to superconductor disease.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: RINGWORLD'S CHILDREN - no spoilers 

That was a serious omission from RWC - no mention of the superconductor plague
- which ultimately effected the whole Ring & not just the City Builders.


David
 >> Stay informed about: RINGWORLD'S CHILDREN - no spoilers 

jdnicoll.TakeThisOut@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:


  > I think someone like the Puppeteers or the Outsiders built it,
 >as a garden for interesting lifeforms. The Pak just stumbled across it
 >and infested it.

Make that "Someone FAR preceding the Puppeteers" -- and whose past
existence shared the shit out of them. Said that way, it makes lots
more sense. Bet the Outsiders know lots more than they have said.

  > The fragility of the RW is deliberate, to give the Builders a
 >way to deal with the zoo animals getting out of hand. If only Jurassic
 >Park had been on a RW...

I can't see it as frail at all. Idiot-proof? No. The Builders could
not foresee the deliberate sabotage by the Puppeteers, nor the looting
of the Bussard coils.

As for keeping control....I seem to recall the Builders provided an
excellent tool for suppressing outbreaks. Besides which, sheer geography
would limit most revolts. If the Grogs rebel, so what? It's not called
the Great Ocean for nothing.


--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz.TakeThisOut@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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In article <cai3sa$fgr$1@reader2.panix.com>,
David Lesher <wb8foz.DeleteThis@panix.com> wrote:
 >jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
 >
 >
   >> I think someone like the Puppeteers or the Outsiders built it,
  >>as a garden for interesting lifeforms. The Pak just stumbled across it
  >>and infested it.
 >
 >Make that "Someone FAR preceding the Puppeteers" -- and whose past
 >existence shared the shit out of them. Said that way, it makes lots
 >more sense. Bet the Outsiders know lots more than they have said.

  Yes, that's good too.

  You know who might think a RW was a good idea, who would be
able to order it built but unable to understand why it was a bad idea?
Slavers, that's who.

   >> The fragility of the RW is deliberate, to give the Builders a
  >>way to deal with the zoo animals getting out of hand. If only Jurassic
  >>Park had been on a RW...
 >
 >I can't see it as frail at all. Idiot-proof? No. The Builders could
 >not foresee the deliberate sabotage by the Puppeteers, nor the looting
 >of the Bussard coils.
 >

  One of the recurring comments in RWC is that the scuffling between
Known Space factions going on near the RW is enough to seriously threaten
it, a concern that drives the plot.
--
"The keywords for tonight are Caution and Flammability."
    JFK, _Bubba Ho Tep_<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: RINGWORLD'S CHILDREN - no spoilers 

jdnicoll.TakeThisOut@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote in message news:<caahh4$qga$1@panix3.panix.com>...

  > I think someone like the Puppeteers or the Outsiders built it,
 > as a garden for interesting lifeforms. The Pak just stumbled across it
 > and infested it.



Pupetteers don't have that many resources, and it's WAY too hot and
high-G for Outsiders. I think it's a Tnuctipin inspired Slaver
artifact.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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 > anim8rfsk RemoveThis @aol.comNOSPAM (ANIM8Rfsk) writes:
  >> Second - man, they needed an editor who was actually familiar with the
  >> Ringworld books. It's full of annoying mistakes like saying Teela was in her
  >> 30s when they first came to the arch, when she was 20.

Paul Vader wrote:
 > Based on his last few books, Larry Niven has told his publishers that he
 > will not tolerate an editor. It's one of the symptoms of the brain-eater.

That, rather than writers block, probably explains why we've seen so little
new Niven the past few years. LN is rich enough that he doesn't _need_ to
write at all, so if he wants to demand terms his publisher won't accept, he
can get away with it.

That _doesn't_ mean he can publish, though, unless he wants to spend the
money to self-publish. To my knowledge, Niven has never had the clout (or
sales numbers) of Robert Heinlein, who was able to demand "don't change a
single comma" on his last 4 or 5 books and get publishers to AGREE to it.
There are probably fewer than ten SF writers with that power in the world.

  >> But the final word is, hey, it's a Ringworld novel, and it's by Niven. It's

And it can't possibly suck as badly as THE BURNING CITY. Nothing can (I
hope).<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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