Rachel and the Phoenix Force?

mrjl <barnett RemoveThis @shentel.net> wrote in
news:8989ee23-6f12-4a96-8e22-96a5f29cdbc0@l1g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:

> Did the piece of the Phoenix Force in that big ass Shi'ar sword
> actually leave it to merge with her? Did she have any of the Phoenix
> Force within her before that point if it did?

I don't remember it leaving the sword. At a guess, I'd say Rachel
always has some aspect of the PF with her because either a) it's her
mother or b) it was bonded with her mother. (It's not clear which is
true.)
 >> Stay informed about: Rachel and the Phoenix Force? 

mrjl <barnett.TakeThisOut@shentel.net> wrote in news:326cbe77-6f2c-4644-b4b0-
e2e9bc547262.TakeThisOut@q39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:

> On Jan 23, 10:03 pm, mrjl <barn....TakeThisOut@shentel.net> wrote:
>> Did the piece of the Phoenix Force in that big ass Shi'ar sword
>> actually leave it to merge with her?  Did she have any of the Phoenix
>> Force within her before that point if it did?
>>
> Also goes Gabriel have any of the Phoenix Force?

Should he? Gabriel is a Summers not a Grey.
 >> Stay informed about: Rachel and the Phoenix Force? 

"Dan McEwen" <ferroSPAMboy DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A2EE4CB9FFD9McEwen@130.133.1.4...
> mrjl <barnett DeleteThis @shentel.net> wrote in news:326cbe77-6f2c-4644-b4b0-
> e2e9bc547262 DeleteThis @q39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Jan 23, 10:03 pm, mrjl <barn... DeleteThis @shentel.net> wrote:
> >> Did the piece of the Phoenix Force in that big ass Shi'ar sword
> >> actually leave it to merge with her? Did she have any of the Phoenix
> >> Force within her before that point if it did?
> >>
> > Also goes Gabriel have any of the Phoenix Force?
>
> Should he? Gabriel is a Summers not a Grey.

I haven't seen any indication that Vulcan is involved with the Phoenix
Force. He's just indefinably powerful all by himself.

- Nathan P. Mahney -
http://www.thecomicnerd.com
 >> Stay informed about: Rachel and the Phoenix Force? 

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:27:43 +1100, "Nathan P. Mahney"
<npmahney RemoveThis @yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>
>"Dan McEwen" <ferroSPAMboy RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:Xns9A2EE4CB9FFD9McEwen@130.133.1.4...
>> mrjl <barnett RemoveThis @shentel.net> wrote in news:326cbe77-6f2c-4644-b4b0-
>> e2e9bc547262 RemoveThis @q39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> > On Jan 23, 10:03 pm, mrjl <barn... RemoveThis @shentel.net> wrote:
>> >> Did the piece of the Phoenix Force in that big ass Shi'ar sword
>> >> actually leave it to merge with her? Did she have any of the Phoenix
>> >> Force within her before that point if it did?
>> >>
>> > Also goes Gabriel have any of the Phoenix Force?
>>
>> Should he? Gabriel is a Summers not a Grey.
>
>I haven't seen any indication that Vulcan is involved with the Phoenix
>Force. He's just indefinably powerful all by himself.
>
>- Nathan P. Mahney -
>http://www.thecomicnerd.com
>

Gabe's only real connection to the Phoenix was in the What If?
alternate ending...that's the problem with the endless Phoenix
retreads, everytime an extremely powerful mutant shows up, people just
assume there must be a Phoenix connection...case in point, all the
guesses about the baby in Messiah Complex.
 >> Stay informed about: Rachel and the Phoenix Force? 

grinningdemon <grinningdemon.TakeThisOut@austin.rr.com> wrote in
news:rljjp35bi39pehcint306qhrpp4be8oiaf@4ax.com:

> On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:27:43 +1100, "Nathan P. Mahney"
> <npmahney.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Dan McEwen" <ferroSPAMboy.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:Xns9A2EE4CB9FFD9McEwen@130.133.1.4...
>>> mrjl <barnett.TakeThisOut@shentel.net> wrote in news:326cbe77-6f2c-4644-b4b0-
>>> e2e9bc547262.TakeThisOut@q39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>> > On Jan 23, 10:03 pm, mrjl <barn....TakeThisOut@shentel.net> wrote:
>>> >> Did the piece of the Phoenix Force in that big ass Shi'ar sword
>>> >> actually leave it to merge with her? Did she have any of the
>>> >> Phoenix Force within her before that point if it did?
>>> >>
>>> > Also goes Gabriel have any of the Phoenix Force?
>>>
>>> Should he? Gabriel is a Summers not a Grey.
>>
>>I haven't seen any indication that Vulcan is involved with the Phoenix
>>Force. He's just indefinably powerful all by himself.

> Gabe's only real connection to the Phoenix was in the What If?
> alternate ending...that's the problem with the endless Phoenix
> retreads, everytime an extremely powerful mutant shows up, people just
> assume there must be a Phoenix connection...case in point, all the
> guesses about the baby in Messiah Complex.

To be fair, Gabe connected to the PF in the What If because of the
M'Krann Crystal. I seem to remember that the White Hot Room was in the
M'Krann Crystal. So if he goes in there he finds it and gets the
power.
 >> Stay informed about: Rachel and the Phoenix Force? 

"grinningdemon" <grinningdemon.RemoveThis@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:rljjp35bi39pehcint306qhrpp4be8oiaf@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:27:43 +1100, "Nathan P. Mahney"
> <npmahney.RemoveThis@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Dan McEwen" <ferroSPAMboy.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:Xns9A2EE4CB9FFD9McEwen@130.133.1.4...
> >> mrjl <barnett.RemoveThis@shentel.net> wrote in news:326cbe77-6f2c-4644-b4b0-
> >> e2e9bc547262.RemoveThis@q39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
> >>
> >> > On Jan 23, 10:03 pm, mrjl <barn....RemoveThis@shentel.net> wrote:
> >> >> Did the piece of the Phoenix Force in that big ass Shi'ar sword
> >> >> actually leave it to merge with her? Did she have any of the Phoenix
> >> >> Force within her before that point if it did?
> >> >>
> >> > Also goes Gabriel have any of the Phoenix Force?
> >>
> >> Should he? Gabriel is a Summers not a Grey.
> >
> >I haven't seen any indication that Vulcan is involved with the Phoenix
> >Force. He's just indefinably powerful all by himself.
> >
> >- Nathan P. Mahney -
> >http://www.thecomicnerd.com
> >
>
> Gabe's only real connection to the Phoenix was in the What If?
> alternate ending...that's the problem with the endless Phoenix
> retreads, everytime an extremely powerful mutant shows up, people just
> assume there must be a Phoenix connection...case in point, all the
> guesses about the baby in Messiah Complex.

Mind you, given the final issue of Messiah Complex they may well have been
correct...

- Nathan P. Mahney -
http://www.thecomicnerd.com
 >> Stay informed about: Rachel and the Phoenix Force? 

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:00:35 +1100, "Nathan P. Mahney"
<npmahney RemoveThis @yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>
>"grinningdemon" <grinningdemon RemoveThis @austin.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:rljjp35bi39pehcint306qhrpp4be8oiaf@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:27:43 +1100, "Nathan P. Mahney"
>> <npmahney RemoveThis @yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Dan McEwen" <ferroSPAMboy RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:Xns9A2EE4CB9FFD9McEwen@130.133.1.4...
>> >> mrjl <barnett RemoveThis @shentel.net> wrote in news:326cbe77-6f2c-4644-b4b0-
>> >> e2e9bc547262 RemoveThis @q39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
>> >>
>> >> > On Jan 23, 10:03 pm, mrjl <barn... RemoveThis @shentel.net> wrote:
>> >> >> Did the piece of the Phoenix Force in that big ass Shi'ar sword
>> >> >> actually leave it to merge with her? Did she have any of the Phoenix
>> >> >> Force within her before that point if it did?
>> >> >>
>> >> > Also goes Gabriel have any of the Phoenix Force?
>> >>
>> >> Should he? Gabriel is a Summers not a Grey.
>> >
>> >I haven't seen any indication that Vulcan is involved with the Phoenix
>> >Force. He's just indefinably powerful all by himself.
>> >
>> >- Nathan P. Mahney -
>> >http://www.thecomicnerd.com
>> >
>>
>> Gabe's only real connection to the Phoenix was in the What If?
>> alternate ending...that's the problem with the endless Phoenix
>> retreads, everytime an extremely powerful mutant shows up, people just
>> assume there must be a Phoenix connection...case in point, all the
>> guesses about the baby in Messiah Complex.
>
>Mind you, given the final issue of Messiah Complex they may well have been
>correct...
>
>- Nathan P. Mahney -
>http://www.thecomicnerd.com
>

That remains to be seen...though Marvel isn't usually very subtle
about these things, so I really doubt it.
 >> Stay informed about: Rachel and the Phoenix Force? 

"Nathan P. Mahney" <npmahney.RemoveThis@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
news:fnelln$133e$1@otis.netspace.net.au:

>> Gabe's only real connection to the Phoenix was in the What If?
>> alternate ending...that's the problem with the endless Phoenix
>> retreads, everytime an extremely powerful mutant shows up, people
>> just assume there must be a Phoenix connection...case in point, all
>> the guesses about the baby in Messiah Complex.
>
> Mind you, given the final issue of Messiah Complex they may well have
> been correct...

If that were the case, wouldn't Bishop have tried to kill Jean much
sooner?
 >> Stay informed about: Rachel and the Phoenix Force? 

On 26 Jan 2008 11:28:35 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy RemoveThis @gmail.com>
wrote:

>"Nathan P. Mahney" <npmahney RemoveThis @yahoo.com.au> wrote in
>news:fnelln$133e$1@otis.netspace.net.au:
>
>>> Gabe's only real connection to the Phoenix was in the What If?
>>> alternate ending...that's the problem with the endless Phoenix
>>> retreads, everytime an extremely powerful mutant shows up, people
>>> just assume there must be a Phoenix connection...case in point, all
>>> the guesses about the baby in Messiah Complex.
>>
>> Mind you, given the final issue of Messiah Complex they may well have
>> been correct...
>
>If that were the case, wouldn't Bishop have tried to kill Jean much
>sooner?

I think there's a *huge* open question regarding whether or not Bishop
has been "our" Bishop since Wanda did the Whammy and obliterated not
just (virtually) all mutants, but all other timelines. I don't know
*when* Bishop stopped being "our" Bishop, but clearly, his history was
completely rewritten by the time that Madrox sent his two dupes to the
two opposite futures and Layla got stuck in the one that the "new"
Bishop is from. Clearly, the current version of Bishop is from a
timeline that has a *far* more nefarious version of the XSE than the
Bishop of before House of M/Decimation.

-- Rob
--
LORELAI: I am so done with plans. I am never, ever making one again.
It never works. I spend the day obsessing over why it didn't work
and what I could've done differently. I'm analyzing all my shortcomings
when all I really need to be doing is vowing to never, ever make a plan
ever again, which I'm doing now, having once again been the innocent
victim of my own stupid plans. God, I need some coffee.
 >> Stay informed about: Rachel and the Phoenix Force? 

"Rob Jensen" <ShutUpRob.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:a8tks31ajifmu0qmos0un7nh6ggqr1k6rr@4ax.com...
> On 26 Jan 2008 11:28:35 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy.RemoveThis@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >"Nathan P. Mahney" <npmahney.RemoveThis@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
> >news:fnelln$133e$1@otis.netspace.net.au:
> >
> >>> Gabe's only real connection to the Phoenix was in the What If?
> >>> alternate ending...that's the problem with the endless Phoenix
> >>> retreads, everytime an extremely powerful mutant shows up, people
> >>> just assume there must be a Phoenix connection...case in point, all
> >>> the guesses about the baby in Messiah Complex.
> >>
> >> Mind you, given the final issue of Messiah Complex they may well have
> >> been correct...
> >
> >If that were the case, wouldn't Bishop have tried to kill Jean much
> >sooner?
>
> I think there's a *huge* open question regarding whether or not Bishop
> has been "our" Bishop since Wanda did the Whammy and obliterated not
> just (virtually) all mutants, but all other timelines. I don't know
> *when* Bishop stopped being "our" Bishop, but clearly, his history was
> completely rewritten by the time that Madrox sent his two dupes to the
> two opposite futures and Layla got stuck in the one that the "new"
> Bishop is from. Clearly, the current version of Bishop is from a
> timeline that has a *far* more nefarious version of the XSE than the
> Bishop of before House of M/Decimation.

I don't see any differences from Bishop's future as established thus far
(though, admittedly, it's not something that I pay much attention to).

As for why he hasn't killed Jean sooner, perhaps the baby isn't Jean? It's
not concretely established yet. Or perhaps he never knew that the baby was
Jean reborn, on,y the effect that it had on history.

- Nathan P. Mahney -
http://www.thecomicnerd.com
 >> Stay informed about: Rachel and the Phoenix Force? 

"Nathan P. Mahney" <npmahney.RemoveThis@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
news:fqgo82$158$1@otis.netspace.net.au:

>
> "Rob Jensen" <ShutUpRob.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:a8tks31ajifmu0qmos0un7nh6ggqr1k6rr@4ax.com...
>> On 26 Jan 2008 11:28:35 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy.RemoveThis@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >"Nathan P. Mahney" <npmahney.RemoveThis@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
>> >news:fnelln$133e$1@otis.netspace.net.au:
>> >
>> >>> Gabe's only real connection to the Phoenix was in the What If?
>> >>> alternate ending...that's the problem with the endless Phoenix
>> >>> retreads, everytime an extremely powerful mutant shows up, people
>> >>> just assume there must be a Phoenix connection...case in point,
>> >>> all the guesses about the baby in Messiah Complex.
>> >>
>> >> Mind you, given the final issue of Messiah Complex they may well
>> >> have been correct...
>> >
>> >If that were the case, wouldn't Bishop have tried to kill Jean much
>> >sooner?
>>
>> I think there's a *huge* open question regarding whether or not
>> Bishop has been "our" Bishop since Wanda did the Whammy and
>> obliterated not just (virtually) all mutants, but all other
>> timelines. I don't know *when* Bishop stopped being "our" Bishop,
>> but clearly, his history was completely rewritten by the time that
>> Madrox sent his two dupes to the two opposite futures and Layla got
>> stuck in the one that the "new" Bishop is from. Clearly, the current
>> version of Bishop is from a timeline that has a *far* more nefarious
>> version of the XSE than the Bishop of before House of M/Decimation.
>
> I don't see any differences from Bishop's future as established thus
> far (though, admittedly, it's not something that I pay much attention
> to).
>
> As for why he hasn't killed Jean sooner, perhaps the baby isn't Jean?
> It's not concretely established yet. Or perhaps he never knew that
> the baby was Jean reborn, on,y the effect that it had on history.

Even if the baby is Jean, killing adult Jean wouldn't have stopped
baby Jean from being born. It would just mean Magneto wouldn't have
had to have done the job. (Yeah, I know we are supposed to believe
it was Xorn, not Magneto. Point still stands.)
 >> Stay informed about: Rachel and the Phoenix Force? 

On Tue, 04 Mar 2008 00:46:58 -0000, Billy Bissette
<baines.DeleteThis@coastalnet.com> wrote:

>"Nathan P. Mahney" <npmahney.DeleteThis@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
>news:fqgo82$158$1@otis.netspace.net.au:
>
>>
>> "Rob Jensen" <ShutUpRob.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:a8tks31ajifmu0qmos0un7nh6ggqr1k6rr@4ax.com...
>>> On 26 Jan 2008 11:28:35 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy.DeleteThis@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >"Nathan P. Mahney" <npmahney.DeleteThis@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
>>> >news:fnelln$133e$1@otis.netspace.net.au:
>>> >
>>> >>> Gabe's only real connection to the Phoenix was in the What If?
>>> >>> alternate ending...that's the problem with the endless Phoenix
>>> >>> retreads, everytime an extremely powerful mutant shows up, people
>>> >>> just assume there must be a Phoenix connection...case in point,
>>> >>> all the guesses about the baby in Messiah Complex.
>>> >>
>>> >> Mind you, given the final issue of Messiah Complex they may well
>>> >> have been correct...
>>> >
>>> >If that were the case, wouldn't Bishop have tried to kill Jean much
>>> >sooner?
>>>
>>> I think there's a *huge* open question regarding whether or not
>>> Bishop has been "our" Bishop since Wanda did the Whammy and
>>> obliterated not just (virtually) all mutants, but all other
>>> timelines. I don't know *when* Bishop stopped being "our" Bishop,
>>> but clearly, his history was completely rewritten by the time that
>>> Madrox sent his two dupes to the two opposite futures and Layla got
>>> stuck in the one that the "new" Bishop is from. Clearly, the current
>>> version of Bishop is from a timeline that has a *far* more nefarious
>>> version of the XSE than the Bishop of before House of M/Decimation.
>>
>> I don't see any differences from Bishop's future as established thus
>> far (though, admittedly, it's not something that I pay much attention
>> to).
>>
>> As for why he hasn't killed Jean sooner, perhaps the baby isn't Jean?
>> It's not concretely established yet. Or perhaps he never knew that
>> the baby was Jean reborn, on,y the effect that it had on history.
>
> Even if the baby is Jean, killing adult Jean wouldn't have stopped
>baby Jean from being born. It would just mean Magneto wouldn't have
>had to have done the job. (Yeah, I know we are supposed to believe
>it was Xorn, not Magneto. Point still stands.)

If it is Jean, then any X-Man would know that killing her is a waste
of time...it accomplishes nothing...even the characters closest to her
now make jokes about her constant resurrections.
 >> Stay informed about: Rachel and the Phoenix Force?