Rachel Summers

"The Black Guardian" <blakgard.TakeThisOut@aol.coma.org> wrote in message
news:20040813024017.25491.00003357@mb-m29.aol.com...
 > Melody & Chis Holman wrote:
  > > Is it me or was Wolverine giving off kind of a paternal vibe in Uncanny
  > > #447. THere are only a few reasons I could think of for this
  > >
  > > 1) He feels bad for attacking her (trying to actually kill) in Uncanny
208
  > > or 209, and is trying to make up for it
 >
 > Doubtful, but maybe.
 >
  > > 2) He sees her as a link to her mother, and an ally in pissing off Scott
&
  > > Emma and making them uncomfortable.
 >
 > Perhaps.
 >
  > > 3) Because she hasn't been born yet; it is possible that Logan is really
her
  > > father due to some stuff we didn't get to see on Asteroid M.
 >
 > NO!
 >
 > 1) She's not going to be born in this timeline. Her time to be born came
and
 > went years ago.
 > 2) Wolverine is simply not her father. So says the guy who's writing her.
 > --
 > -=[ The BlakGard ]=-

I agree with every point. I can see Logan feeling closer to her because she
is a link to Jean, but let's not get back into a Logan is Rachel's father
discussion. It's been said that Rachel was conceived on that butte
that Scott and Jean were on right after she became Phoenix.

Patrick<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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 >I agree with every point. I can see Logan feeling closer to her because she
 >is a link to Jean, but let's not get back into a Logan is Rachel's father
 >discussion. It's been said that Rachel was conceived on that butte
 >that Scott and Jean were on right after she became Phoenix.

Who said that? I don't think I ever heard that theory (especially
as some stories rightly or wrongly created the impression that
Rachel was born roughly around the time that Nathan was).
I do recall however that Chris Claremont
Claremont once
mentioned that Rachel is the daughter of Jean and the Phoenix
and that is why doubts were cast on Scott's paternity in that
annual with Ahab, although AFAIK this theory has never been
"nailed down" in canon.

Tilman


"Who wants to read something about this subject will find it in a book, the
title of which I've forgotten. But it's the 42nd chapter."
Professor Johann Georg August Galletti (1750-1828)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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What? Logan feeling fatherly towards a young X-Gal? Nah, that could never
happen.

The guy's got issues...

Frankly, the father figure/teacher role he's taken on with many of the younger
crew over the years is one of my favourite Wolverine angles they keep mining,
although it is a bit of a running gag by now. Shouldn't he be helping out one
of the New Mutants these days?

J

IRC: Foenix/Kinetix | Jason Bourgeois | Foenix RemoveThis @subreality.com
Unofficial torch-lighter of the Church of X-Books
Official Keeper of XBooks Future Histories and Rachel Summers Flame
"I'm me. That's all I need to be." ~ Brucha S. Meyers
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"The Phoenix" <foenix13 RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040813094933.05710.00003186@mb-m14.aol.com...
 > What? Logan feeling fatherly towards a young X-Gal? Nah, that could
never
 > happen.
 >
 > The guy's got issues...
 >
 > Frankly, the father figure/teacher role he's taken on with many of the
younger
 > crew over the years is one of my favourite Wolverine angles they keep
mining,
 > although it is a bit of a running gag by now. Shouldn't he be helping out
one
 > of the New Mutants these days?

Considering he's in every OTHER X-Team, his absence from New X-Men is
actually something of a relief. He probably uses the time he would spend
with them to sleep, or eat, or go to the bog...<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 01:57:18 -0400, "Melody & Chis Holman"
<holman.RemoveThis@townisp.com> wrote:

 >Is it me or was Wolverine giving off kind of a paternal vibe in Uncanny
 >#447. THere are only a few reasons I could think of for this
 >
 >1) He feels bad for attacking her (trying to actually kill) in Uncanny 208
 >or 209, and is trying to make up for it
 >
 >2) He sees her as a link to her mother, and an ally in pissing off Scott &
 >Emma and making them uncomfortable.
 >
 >3) Because she hasn't been born yet; it is possible that Logan is really her
 >father due to some stuff we didn't get to see on Asteroid M.
 >
 >Of course this is all a combination of speculation and wishful thinking.
 >

NO NO NO...if scott isn't her dad then it was probably immaculate
conception...that's my guess...but even if he isn't her biological
father, he's the only one she ever knew so, while i like this whole
storyline about everyone being pissed at scott for the way he's
acting, i hope it doesn't last a long time...it seems like whedon is
hinting at scott being psychically manipulated...kitty thought it was
emma but i think it was jean's little push to get him and emma
together at the end of morrison's run...they're undoing pretty much
everything morrison did anyway so it's only a matter of time before
this gets undone too...but i hope it doesn't happen real soon...i
don't think scott and emma make sense in the long run (that shot of
them with a baby in x-men the end made me cringe, emma would eat her
young) but they do make an interesting couple for now and i really
like the dynamic of having them both in charge of the school

as for the scott/jean/logan triangle...it's been beaten to
death...there is nothing interesting left to do with it...morrison put
the last nail in the coffin...logan and jean wouldn't make any sense
at all as a real couple...logan as much as said it when jean threw
herself at him during morrison's run because scott was being a dick...
and is there really any doubt that somewhere down the line jean will
return and eventually get back with scott...even if they were in a rut<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Menshevik" <menshevik.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040813094657.23133.00003201@mb-m07.aol.com...
  > >I agree with every point. I can see Logan feeling closer to her because
she
  > >is a link to Jean, but let's not get back into a Logan is Rachel's father
  > >discussion. It's been said that Rachel was conceived on that butte
  > >that Scott and Jean were on right after she became Phoenix.
 >
 > Who said that? I don't think I ever heard that theory (especially
 > as some stories rightly or wrongly created the impression that
 > Rachel was born roughly around the time that Nathan was).

Wasn't there a flashback to that scene sometime after Rachel come to the
'present' that hinted to it? I don't recall that she was supposed to be
born around Nathan's time. Was it ever stated how much older Franklin
Richards is? That might be a way to pin it down.

 > I do recall however that Chris Claremont
 > Claremont once
 > mentioned that Rachel is the daughter of Jean and the Phoenix
 > and that is why doubts were cast on Scott's paternity in that
 > annual with Ahab, although AFAIK this theory has never been
 > "nailed down" in canon.
 >

I guess it depends on when the writer says something. Originally, Rachel
was the daughter of Scott and Jean, who became Phoenix (no clones involved).
I guess the "Daughter of Phoenix" is something that came after the various
retcons, and I hear Claremont will be exploring that idea in Uncanny.

Patrick<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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In article <1srph05s2fsitqskp4mjdsddp7kmp3eacs.DeleteThis@4ax.com>,
grinningdemon <grinningdemon.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> writes
 >On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 01:57:18 -0400, "Melody & Chis Holman"
 ><holman.DeleteThis@townisp.com> wrote:
 >
  >>Is it me or was Wolverine giving off kind of a paternal vibe in Uncanny
  >>#447. THere are only a few reasons I could think of for this
  >>
  >>1) He feels bad for attacking her (trying to actually kill) in Uncanny 208
  >>or 209, and is trying to make up for it
  >>
  >>2) He sees her as a link to her mother, and an ally in pissing off Scott &
  >>Emma and making them uncomfortable.
  >>
  >>3) Because she hasn't been born yet; it is possible that Logan is really
 >her
  >>father due to some stuff we didn't get to see on Asteroid M.
  >>
  >>Of course this is all a combination of speculation and wishful thinking.
  >>
 >
 >NO NO NO...if scott isn't her dad then it was probably immaculate
 >conception...that's my guess...but even if he isn't her biological
 >father, he's the only one she ever knew so, while i like this whole
 >storyline about everyone being pissed at scott for the way he's
 >acting, i hope it doesn't last a long time...it seems like whedon is
 >hinting at scott being psychically manipulated...kitty thought it was
 >emma but i think it was jean's little push to get him and emma
 >together at the end of morrison's run...they're undoing pretty much
 >everything morrison did anyway so it's only a matter of time before
 >this gets undone too...but i hope it doesn't happen real soon...i
 >don't think scott and emma make sense in the long run (that shot of
 >them with a baby in x-men the end made me cringe, emma would eat her
 >young) but they do make an interesting couple for now and i really
 >like the dynamic of having them both in charge of the school
 >
 >as for the scott/jean/logan triangle...it's been beaten to
 >death...there is nothing interesting left to do with it...morrison put
 >the last nail in the coffin...logan and jean wouldn't make any sense
 >at all as a real couple...logan as much as said it when jean threw
 >herself at him during morrison's run because scott was being a dick...
 >and is there really any doubt that somewhere down the line jean will
 >return and eventually get back with scott...even if they were in a rut

Maybe Jean possessed Emma and now Emma has
the Phoenix Force!

Time to run all the previous quoted paragraphs into one!
(Why does that happen, anyway?)

Robert Carnegie at home, rja.carnegie.DeleteThis@excite.com at large<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Patrick McClue" <mcclue.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<2o6mblF7cskpU1.DeleteThis@uni-berlin.de>...
 > "Menshevik" <menshevik.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
 > news:20040813094657.23133.00003201@mb-m07.aol.com...

 >
  > > I do recall however that Chris Claremont
  > > Claremont once
  > > mentioned that Rachel is the daughter of Jean and the Phoenix
  > > and that is why doubts were cast on Scott's paternity in that
  > > annual with Ahab, although AFAIK this theory has never been
  > > "nailed down" in canon.
  > >
 >
 > I guess it depends on when the writer says something. Originally, Rachel
 > was the daughter of Scott and Jean, who became Phoenix (no clones involved).
 > I guess the "Daughter of Phoenix" is something that came after the various
 > retcons, and I hear Claremont will be exploring that idea in Uncanny.

Well, you have to remember what Claremont's take on Phoenix is.
Basically, it works out to Jean wields this cosmic force (not an
entity), and her doing so is needed by the universe. In Rachel's
timeline, the Shi'ar made it so Jean couldn't access her power. So,
Nature found a way, giving us Rachel.

It's also worth noting that there seems to be nothing of Scott in
Rachel. She has Jean's features, Jean's powers, and even a lot of
Jean's personality. The Nates, at least, inherited Scott's hair color
if nothing else.

Given Claremont's attitude towards Scott, it wouldn't surprise me if
he goes ahead with his original plan and removes the Summers Taint
from Rachel.

E<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Rachel Summers 

 > Given Claremont's attitude towards Scott, it wouldn't surprise me if
 > he goes ahead with his original plan and removes the "Summers Taint"
 > from Rachel.

Wouldn't surprise me. Claremont seems to vary between hating Scott and
Just Not Caring.

As things stand tho, the most recent origin for Rachel we have is Alan
Davis' Excalibur 52. Which explicitly states that (A) Scott & Jean are
her parents and (B) the Phoenix of her timeline never became involved
with her mother *at all*. Can only hope CC doesn't retcon this...

And does anyone else think Davis is drawing her a few years younger in
Uncanny right now than he did in Excalibur?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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 >
 > And does anyone else think Davis is drawing her a few years younger in
 > Uncanny right now than he did in Excalibur?

I actually took the "fatherly" exchange btw Logan and Rachel as the
character sketch of the current incarnation of Rachel. This version
of Rachel is a cleaned slate without the taint of her Apocalyptic
future weighing so heavily on her. This is a clean start for her..and
Davis is actually pikcing up on the younger version of Rachel we have
seen in her memories...the version she designated as her "favotite
version of myself" which was while she was a teen at the school before
Xavier was killed and she became a Hound.

Kind of an interesting take, instead of the whole tortured girl from
the future we have already read about. I'll see where it goes.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Somebody" <strongestlink1.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9140191f.0408222309.4844b44b@posting.google.com...
 >
 > And does anyone else think Davis is drawing her a few years younger in
 > Uncanny right now than he did in Excalibur?

Her face is a telepathic illusion anyway, so she's going for a face to match
the outfit, methinks!

D.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Donnacha DeLong" <donnacha RemoveThis @NOSPAMsortedmagazine.com> wrote in message news:<412a5cc5$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>...
 > "Somebody" <strongestlink1 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
 > news:9140191f.0408222309.4844b44b@posting.google.com...
  > >
  > > And does anyone else think Davis is drawing her a few years younger in
  > > Uncanny right now than he did in Excalibur?
 >
 > Her face is a telepathic illusion anyway, so she's going for a face to match
 > the outfit, methinks!
 >
 > D.

Sure this is still the case? Trying to think if she picked up a new
body or remolded the current one permanently somewhere along the way.
Current issue has her powers negated but the "illusion" still intact.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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On 24 Aug 2004 14:51:14 -0700, jinxdv8.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com (JinX) wrote:

>"Donnacha DeLong" <donnacha.TakeThisOut@NOSPAMsortedmagazine.com> wrote in message news:<412a5cc5$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>...
>> "Somebody" <strongestlink1.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:9140191f.0408222309.4844b44b@posting.google.com...
>> >
>> > And does anyone else think Davis is drawing her a few years younger in
>> > Uncanny right now than he did in Excalibur?
>>
>> Her face is a telepathic illusion anyway, so she's going for a face to match
>> the outfit, methinks!
>>
>> D.
>
>Sure this is still the case? Trying to think if she picked up a new
>body or remolded the current one permanently somewhere along the way.
>Current issue has her powers negated but the "illusion" still intact.

The new OHOTMU stated that the Hound tattoos are still there.


--
"Who needs the big picture? Not me. Hints are fine."
Joan Girardi (after God shows her just a little of his omnipresent brain)
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