Another 'Rage' in Finland :(

"Snowman" wrote in message

> An 18-yo high school student shot the headmaster and seven pupils today
> here.
> He even had sent some threathening video clips to YouTube yesterday,
> advertising the 'High School Massacre' in advance.
> Clips are naturally removed from the site by now.
>
> Oh well ...
>
> &y

Ouch....


Laura
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"Snowman" wrote in message

> An 18-yo high school student shot the headmaster and seven pupils today
> here.
> He even had sent some threathening video clips to YouTube yesterday,
> advertising the 'High School Massacre' in advance.
> Clips are naturally removed from the site by now.
>
> Oh well ...
>
> &y

It breaks my heart that children are "solving" their problems with guns.
But, I'm so grateful that wasn't an option when I was a kid. I probably
wouldn't be posting this if there had been guns available to me at ... well,
any time in my teens.

Murielle
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Murielle wrote:
> "Snowman" wrote in message
>
>> An 18-yo high school student shot the headmaster and seven pupils today
>> here.
>> He even had sent some threathening video clips to YouTube yesterday,
>> advertising the 'High School Massacre' in advance.
>> Clips are naturally removed from the site by now.
>>
>> Oh well ...
>>
>> &y
>
> It breaks my heart that children are "solving" their problems with guns.
> But, I'm so grateful that wasn't an option when I was a kid. I probably
> wouldn't be posting this if there had been guns available to me at ... well,
> any time in my teens.
>
> Murielle
>
>
We were so lucky to have been growing up in a safer time. When the
really bad kids got in fights when I was a kid, you heard talk of brass
knuckles or people ripping hoop earrings out of girls ears. We even
heard that the really tough girls wore razor blades in their hair
because when they fought, hair pulling was a part of it. I never knew if
that was true or an urban legend, but the fact is that even a dozen
razor blades worn hidden in a big ratted hairdo do not have the killing
power of even a single gun. The fact that young people have access to
guns and the desire to use them saddens me beyond words. And I'm afraid
it's getting worse, not better - seems to be spreading all over the world.

Liz
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"Liz" wrote in message

> Murielle wrote:
>> "Snowman" wrote in message
>>
>>> An 18-yo high school student shot the headmaster and seven pupils today
>>> here.
>>> He even had sent some threathening video clips to YouTube yesterday,
>>> advertising the 'High School Massacre' in advance.
>>> Clips are naturally removed from the site by now.
>>>
>>> Oh well ...
>>>
>>> &y
>>
>> It breaks my heart that children are "solving" their problems with guns.
>> But, I'm so grateful that wasn't an option when I was a kid. I probably
>> wouldn't be posting this if there had been guns available to me at ...
>> well, any time in my teens.
>>
>> Murielle
> We were so lucky to have been growing up in a safer time. When the really
> bad kids got in fights when I was a kid, you heard talk of brass knuckles
> or people ripping hoop earrings out of girls ears. We even heard that the
> really tough girls wore razor blades in their hair because when they
> fought, hair pulling was a part of it. I never knew if that was true or an
> urban legend, but the fact is that even a dozen razor blades worn hidden
> in a big ratted hairdo do not have the killing power of even a single gun.
> The fact that young people have access to guns and the desire to use them
> saddens me beyond words. And I'm afraid it's getting worse, not better -
> seems to be spreading all over the world.
>
> Liz

It is! I mean, I heard some pretty scary stories about the Glasgow gangs
when I was growing up, but nothing in Canada for almost three decades and
now? There are drive-by shootings every weekend. We used to go for years
and years between murders, now it's every other day. There was a drive-by
shooting not that far from me recently. Mind you, one of the blessing of
being hard of hearing is that I don't hear the commotions that go on around
me. I haven't decided if that's good or bad.

Murielle
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On Nov 13, 2:26 am, "Murielle" wrote:
> It is! I mean, I heard some pretty scary stories about the Glasgow gangs
> when I was growing up,

I'll just jump in on this one. I moved to the Glasgow area (well, 30
miles from the city, in a quiet seaside resort) more than three years
ago. And the town I mostly hang out in is Greenock, supposed to be
even more violent. Now, in the last three years I have indeed read of
three gang-related murders in Greenock, of 4 or 5 of killings in
Glasgow (again, a couple linked to gang violence plus one madman who
killeda woman and some hit-and-runs) and of one murder in the wee town
I live in, drunken fight that ended in an "accident" (guy thrown/
fallen out of a window). One colleague of mine has been chibbed
(stabbed, which one is correct English and which one is Scottish, I
have a wee accent/dialect issue at the moment?) to death last summer.
Still, in my "quiet" northeastern Italian hometown in the last three
years in which I've lived there we have had two serial murderers (one,
who for some reason targeted street cleaners, has never been caught
although he stopped 5 years ago, the other one has been apprehended),
a real gang war (10 deaths in 10 days at a certain point - all North
African or Albanian immigrants, but with no distinctions between
people who did belong to gangs and who were involved in illegal things
and people who had just moved in the country to earn a decent life),
and some "rage murders" and things... hardly quieter...
 >> Stay informed about: Another 'Rage' in Finland :( 

Murielle wrote:
> "Liz" wrote in message
>
>> Murielle wrote:
>>> "Snowman" wrote in message
>>>
>>>> An 18-yo high school student shot the headmaster and seven pupils today
>>>> here.
>>>> He even had sent some threathening video clips to YouTube yesterday,
>>>> advertising the 'High School Massacre' in advance.
>>>> Clips are naturally removed from the site by now.
>>>>
>>>> Oh well ...
>>>>
>>>> &y
>>> It breaks my heart that children are "solving" their problems with guns.
>>> But, I'm so grateful that wasn't an option when I was a kid. I probably
>>> wouldn't be posting this if there had been guns available to me at ...
>>> well, any time in my teens.
>>>
>>> Murielle
>> We were so lucky to have been growing up in a safer time. When the really
>> bad kids got in fights when I was a kid, you heard talk of brass knuckles
>> or people ripping hoop earrings out of girls ears. We even heard that the
>> really tough girls wore razor blades in their hair because when they
>> fought, hair pulling was a part of it. I never knew if that was true or an
>> urban legend, but the fact is that even a dozen razor blades worn hidden
>> in a big ratted hairdo do not have the killing power of even a single gun.
>> The fact that young people have access to guns and the desire to use them
>> saddens me beyond words. And I'm afraid it's getting worse, not better -
>> seems to be spreading all over the world.
>>
>> Liz
>
> It is! I mean, I heard some pretty scary stories about the Glasgow gangs
> when I was growing up, but nothing in Canada for almost three decades and
> now? There are drive-by shootings every weekend. We used to go for years
> and years between murders, now it's every other day. There was a drive-by
> shooting not that far from me recently. Mind you, one of the blessing of
> being hard of hearing is that I don't hear the commotions that go on around
> me. I haven't decided if that's good or bad.
>
> Murielle
>
>


Like so many things, there is a good side and a bad side. Sometimes at
work I would like to be a little hard of hearing - it is a a horrible
mix of loud sounds = two or three radio stations, the noises of all the
machines in a factory just outside our wall, the workers downstairs
shouting over the machines, the fork lift drivers honking and honking
and inside the room, all the workers shouting at one another. I guess
they've just developed loud voices to talk over all the other noises. In
my neighborhood we have trains nearby, neighbors that play loud music at
all hours, helicopters coming to the sheriff's station, sirens and horns
honking. Sometimes I must take a weekend (or this spring, an entire
week) to get away from it all and just hear birds and wind and so on.

Hmmm, not really on the topic, but part of it. On the other hand, when a
child laughs, a loved one speaks - you miss some of that.

But regarding the spreading of the violence - yes, it seems that we are
in an age of no concern for one another. Very sad indeed. My doctor says
she'd like to put prozac in the water. I'd like to add birth control
with it. Too much anger, too many people and lives that are too busy to
raise the children with more than the basics - people don't take the
time to teach responsibility or compassion or decency any more. Too sad.

Liz
 >> Stay informed about: Another 'Rage' in Finland :( 

"Liz" wrote in message

> Murielle wrote:
>> "Liz" wrote in message
>>
>>> Murielle wrote:
>>>> "Snowman" wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>> An 18-yo high school student shot the headmaster and seven pupils
>>>>> today
>>>>> here.
>>>>> He even had sent some threathening video clips to YouTube yesterday,
>>>>> advertising the 'High School Massacre' in advance.
>>>>> Clips are naturally removed from the site by now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh well ...
>>>>>
>>>>> &y
>>>> It breaks my heart that children are "solving" their problems with
>>>> guns. But, I'm so grateful that wasn't an option when I was a kid. I
>>>> probably wouldn't be posting this if there had been guns available to
>>>> me at ... well, any time in my teens.
>>>>
>>>> Murielle
>>> We were so lucky to have been growing up in a safer time. When the
>>> really bad kids got in fights when I was a kid, you heard talk of brass
>>> knuckles or people ripping hoop earrings out of girls ears. We even
>>> heard that the really tough girls wore razor blades in their hair
>>> because when they fought, hair pulling was a part of it. I never knew if
>>> that was true or an urban legend, but the fact is that even a dozen
>>> razor blades worn hidden in a big ratted hairdo do not have the killing
>>> power of even a single gun. The fact that young people have access to
>>> guns and the desire to use them saddens me beyond words. And I'm afraid
>>> it's getting worse, not better - seems to be spreading all over the
>>> world.
>>>
>>> Liz
>>
>> It is! I mean, I heard some pretty scary stories about the Glasgow gangs
>> when I was growing up, but nothing in Canada for almost three decades and
>> now? There are drive-by shootings every weekend. We used to go for
>> years and years between murders, now it's every other day. There was a
>> drive-by shooting not that far from me recently. Mind you, one of the
>> blessing of being hard of hearing is that I don't hear the commotions
>> that go on around me. I haven't decided if that's good or bad.
>>
>> Murielle
>
>
> Like so many things, there is a good side and a bad side. Sometimes at
> work I would like to be a little hard of hearing - it is a a horrible mix
> of loud sounds = two or three radio stations, the noises of all the
> machines in a factory just outside our wall, the workers downstairs
> shouting over the machines, the fork lift drivers honking and honking and
> inside the room, all the workers shouting at one another. I guess they've
> just developed loud voices to talk over all the other noises. In my
> neighborhood we have trains nearby, neighbors that play loud music at all
> hours, helicopters coming to the sheriff's station, sirens and horns
> honking. Sometimes I must take a weekend (or this spring, an entire week)
> to get away from it all and just hear birds and wind and so on.

It's amazing what we can tune out. After finally getting a hearing aid
about five years ago I was astounded at the noise of traffic. Riding in a
car I had to turn my aid off. I could barely believe my ears. As a "deaf"
person I'd never heard that roar before and I couldn't help but feel sorry
for all the audio-able (Okay, I made it up!) people in the world who have to
listen to that all the time. Of course, I'm quite used to it now and don't
even notice it.

> Hmmm, not really on the topic, but part of it. On the other hand, when a
> child laughs, a loved one speaks - you miss some of that.

It's the little sighs and grunts I adore. We have a couple of little ones
in the family now and they utterly delight me.

> But regarding the spreading of the violence - yes, it seems that we are in
> an age of no concern for one another. Very sad indeed. My doctor says
> she'd like to put prozac in the water. I'd like to add birth control with
> it. Too much anger, too many people and lives that are too busy to raise
> the children with more than the basics - people don't take the time to
> teach responsibility or compassion or decency any more. Too sad.

Although you didn't get it from the doctor, there was an anti-violence,
anti-temper prescription. It was known by a few different names: decency,
consideration, respect, responsibility. It seems to me that in the past
twenty years or so we've lost the public expectation of "good" behaviour.
People have become so "distanced" from one another that they no longer
consider the "other" person, only their own wants, needs and expectations.

Okay, coming down of my high-horse. )

Murielle
>
> Liz
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"Marco" wrote in message

> On Nov 13, 2:26 am, "Murielle" wrote:
>> It is! I mean, I heard some pretty scary stories about the Glasgow gangs
>> when I was growing up,
>
> I'll just jump in on this one. I moved to the Glasgow area (well, 30
> miles from the city, in a quiet seaside resort) more than three years
> ago. And the town I mostly hang out in is Greenock, supposed to be
> even more violent. Now, in the last three years I have indeed read of
> three gang-related murders in Greenock, of 4 or 5 of killings in
> Glasgow (again, a couple linked to gang violence plus one madman who
> killeda woman and some hit-and-runs) and of one murder in the wee town
> I live in, drunken fight that ended in an "accident" (guy thrown/
> fallen out of a window). One colleague of mine has been chibbed
> (stabbed, which one is correct English and which one is Scottish, I
> have a wee accent/dialect issue at the moment?) to death last summer.
> Still, in my "quiet" northeastern Italian hometown in the last three
> years in which I've lived there we have had two serial murderers (one,
> who for some reason targeted street cleaners, has never been caught
> although he stopped 5 years ago, the other one has been apprehended),
> a real gang war (10 deaths in 10 days at a certain point - all North
> African or Albanian immigrants, but with no distinctions between
> people who did belong to gangs and who were involved in illegal things
> and people who had just moved in the country to earn a decent life),
> and some "rage murders" and things... hardly quieter...

Well, it's been ... I'm going to use the word "several" because I'm not
going to give you exact numbers. I'm clinging to my spring-chick delusion
by the skin of my teeth, here ... several decades since I lived in Scotland.
I was a child. "Gang" stories came from adults and television. Newspapers
too, I suppose, but I was too young to read them.

I'm glad to hear that the area you were in, no doubt more recently, was
quieter. Perhaps it is related to how close one was to Glasgow, proper. I
lived in Dalmuir, a stone's throw away from Clydebank. There were some
fairly rough folks around, but they certainly anything like the gang-lore I
was fed.

Murielle
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On Nov 14, 7:43 am, "Murielle" wrote:
> Well, it's been ... I'm going to use the word "several" because I'm not
> going to give you exact numbers. I'm clinging to my spring-chick delusion
> by the skin of my teeth, here ... several decades since I lived in Scotland.
> I was a child. "Gang" stories came from adults and television. Newspapers
> too, I suppose, but I was too young to read them.

I see. Hmm, the stories circulate as "old stuff", presently much less
issues happen, or at least less issues are reported. There might have
been some work by (police? Government?) on this.

> I'm glad to hear that the area you were in, no doubt more recently, was
> quieter. Perhaps it is related to how close one was to Glasgow, proper. I
> lived in Dalmuir, a stone's throw away from Clydebank. There were some
> fairly rough folks around, but they certainly anything like the gang-lore I
> was fed.

Hmm, Clydebank is pretty known as a "rough" place, but so is Greenock
- I'm not living there but I work there and most of my mates live
there. I am living - you might know of it - in Largs presently
(chances of moving to Gourock are present).
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"Marco" wrote in message

> On Nov 14, 7:43 am, "Murielle" wrote:
>> Well, it's been ... I'm going to use the word "several" because I'm not
>> going to give you exact numbers. I'm clinging to my spring-chick
>> delusion
>> by the skin of my teeth, here ... several decades since I lived in
>> Scotland.
>> I was a child. "Gang" stories came from adults and television.
>> Newspapers
>> too, I suppose, but I was too young to read them.
>
> I see. Hmm, the stories circulate as "old stuff", presently much less
> issues happen, or at least less issues are reported. There might have
> been some work by (police? Government?) on this.

Or maybe the economy improved? Less people marginalized? Also, with more
and more people having cars they can work in one area and live in another
more easily. Back-in-the-day folks were more locked into smaller areas.

>> I'm glad to hear that the area you were in, no doubt more recently, was
>> quieter. Perhaps it is related to how close one was to Glasgow, proper.
>> I
>> lived in Dalmuir, a stone's throw away from Clydebank. There were some
>> fairly rough folks around, but they certainly anything like the gang-lore
>> I
>> was fed.
>
> Hmm, Clydebank is pretty known as a "rough" place, but so is Greenock
> - I'm not living there but I work there and most of my mates live
> there. I am living - you might know of it - in Largs presently
> (chances of moving to Gourock are present).

I've probably heard my older relatives talking about those places, certainly
Greenock. I was so young when we imagrated ....

Murielle
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On Nov 14, 8:34 pm, "Murielle" wrote:
> > I see. Hmm, the stories circulate as "old stuff", presently much less
> > issues happen, or at least less issues are reported. There might have
> > been some work by (police? Government?) on this.
> Or maybe the economy improved?

Looks like it did. Also, there was a big input of European citizens
[note for the Americans: several British use "European" as opposed to
"British", not to... "African", "American" or whatever] *with* jobs,
especially here in the West. Hmm... no, I don't know how this could
influence the issue, no.

> > Hmm, Clydebank is pretty known as a "rough" place, but so is Greenock
> > - I'm not living there but I work there and most of my mates live
> > there. I am living - you might know of it - in Largs presently
> > (chances of moving to Gourock are present).
> I've probably heard my older relatives talking about those places, certainly
> Greenock. I was so young when we imagrated ....

Greenock until some 20 years ago (as far as I know) was a quite big
harbor for mercantile ships - it is just at the mouth of the Clyde
(south side), and its links with Glasgow were quite major. Largs is
and has been for at least a century just a wee, nice holidays resort.
And... Nardini icecreams?
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Marco wrote:
> On Nov 14, 8:34 pm, "Murielle" wrote:
>>> I see. Hmm, the stories circulate as "old stuff", presently much less
>>> issues happen, or at least less issues are reported. There might have
>>> been some work by (police? Government?) on this.
>> Or maybe the economy improved?
>
> Looks like it did. Also, there was a big input of European citizens
> [note for the Americans: several British use "European" as opposed to
> "British", not to... "African", "American" or whatever] *with* jobs,
> especially here in the West. Hmm... no, I don't know how this could
> influence the issue, no.

I believe that when people feel like strangers, they are more likely to
commit crimes against others. People who know everyone around them are
less likely to. In a small town where everyone knows everyone, not only
do residents care about one another, see one another as human real
people, they also know they'll be caught and that the people who they
know will be judging them. As one of a bunch of strangers however, it's
easier to dehumanize people and commit crimes against them.

jmo'd
Liz
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"Liz" wrote in message

> Marco wrote:
>> On Nov 14, 8:34 pm, "Murielle" wrote:
>>>> I see. Hmm, the stories circulate as "old stuff", presently much less
>>>> issues happen, or at least less issues are reported. There might have
>>>> been some work by (police? Government?) on this.
>>> Or maybe the economy improved?
>>
>> Looks like it did. Also, there was a big input of European citizens
>> [note for the Americans: several British use "European" as opposed to
>> "British", not to... "African", "American" or whatever] *with* jobs,
>> especially here in the West. Hmm... no, I don't know how this could
>> influence the issue, no.
>
> I believe that when people feel like strangers, they are more likely to
> commit crimes against others. People who know everyone around them are
> less likely to. In a small town where everyone knows everyone, not only do
> residents care about one another, see one another as human real people,
> they also know they'll be caught and that the people who they know will be
> judging them. As one of a bunch of strangers however, it's easier to
> dehumanize people and commit crimes against them.
>
> jmo'd
> Liz

Excellent point!

Murielle
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