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Rockets In Narnia! The Silver Chair Spoilers

 
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user311

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Since: Oct 06, 2004
Posts: 74



(Msg. 16) Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Rockets In Narnia! The Silver Chair Spoilers [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>books>cs-lewis, others (more info?)

rja.carnegie.DeleteThis@excite.com writes:

> I've forgotten where it might be established that Narnia is a flat
> world.

"Voyage of the Dawn Treader", I think. Reepicheep sails over the edge
of the world.

> It would imply that sailing ships technically never pass out of
> sight of their home port unless there is other land in between, I think
> - unless there's a trick for that.

Certain flat-earther homepages may be able to give you some idea to
the trick in it.

> As to how seasons may work, there are lots of ways - the sun gets
> nearer or further away, or dimmer or brighter, or there's a periodic
> change in the atmosphere...

Remember that Narnia is a flat world where beavers talk and the stars
are alive. Expecting seasons to have anything to do with what might be
relevant in our local universe is a major assumption.

--
Peter B. Juul, o.-.o "I'm not ignoring any facts.
The RockBear. ((^)) I'm simply ignoring you.
I speak only 0}._.{0 Slight difference."
for myself. O/ \O -jms

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Paul Ciszek

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Since: Dec 11, 2005
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(Msg. 17) Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:50 pm
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In article <1136204442.069218.250230 RemoveThis @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
<rja.carnegie RemoveThis @excite.com> wrote:
>
>I've forgotten where it might be established that Narnia is a flat
>world. It would imply that sailing ships technically never pass out of
>sight of their home port unless there is other land in between, I think
>- unless there's a trick for that.

I wonder if temperature and humidity gradiants in the air above the
sea could do the trick.

>talk.origins, the newsgroup where creationists are allowed to dispute
>with people who take the view of modern orthodox science on the
>subject, gets into this more often than it should, given a Christian
>flat-earth view is historically limited to about a dozen clerical
>authors who never saw the sea, and Washington Irving. But apparently
>there was a belief that the equator was unsurvivably hot so that you
>couldn't live there. It was therefore also impossible for missionaries
>to travel to the southern hemisphere, and so there could not be humans
>living there, since God could not save their souls through Christ if
>they didn't know about him. Weaknesses in this argument - including,
>perhaps, Noah's Flood having put the fires out - need not be considered
>here, but in such a world as that the question of Christmas in summer
>would not arise.

Actually, some ancient Greeks speculated about the idea of northern
and southern hemispheres being separated by an unsurvivable region
around the equator--as have some modern SF writers. It is a possible
scenario for an Earthlike planet, just not for Earth itself.
However, the Greeks were in communication with some folks
not very far from the equator, and by Roman times I think some lands
on the equator were known about and possibly traded with. There
would have been no excuse for anyone in the Christian era to think
that the equator was uninhabitable or impassible.

One of the characters in Voyage of the Dawn Treader refers to the
world as a round table with the oceans constantly pouring over
the edge, but how accurate is his knowledge of his own world?
I will conceed that accurate astrologer/astronomers, which Narnia
seems to have, should be able to determine whether their world is
flat or not, but it would seem that no one had previously gone
to examine the edge. In Dawn Treader, the ocean appears to shallow
out at the eastern edge of the world; we know that there are frozen
wastes to the north of Narnia, but not that they are necessarily
at the edge of the world. Calormene is a hot country (Calor? hmmm...)
but we do not know if it lies at the southern edge. About the
west, nothing is known. (Opposite of Tolkien, that.)

BTW, Narnia is *not* connected to other worlds at the edges. It
is connected at times thru portals, and the platonic ideal of
Narnia is attached to Aslan's country like a spoke from a hub,
but that is not the Narnia of the first six books.

--
Please reply to: | "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is
pciszek at panix dot com | indistinguishable from malice."
Autoreply is disabled |

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Bree

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Since: Jun 25, 2005
Posts: 83



(Msg. 18) Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:55 pm
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On 02 Jan 2006 15:32:48 +0100, p4 DeleteThis @enzym.rnd.uni-c.dk (Peter B. Juul) wrote:
/snip/

>Certain flat-earther homepages


I don't suppose flat-earthers would necessarily reject the internet....




Bree
--
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Malcolm

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(Msg. 19) Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:35 am
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"Paul Ciszek" <nospam.RemoveThis@nospam.com> wrote
> However, the Greeks were in communication with some folks
> not very far from the equator, and by Roman times I think some lands
> on the equator were known about and possibly traded with. There
> would have been no excuse for anyone in the Christian era to think
> that the equator was uninhabitable or impassible.
>
The Phonecians mounted an expedition round Africa.
The ships sailed with wheat on board, and made the journey by disembarking,
sowing crops, and thus providing enough food to live on indefinitely.

They were accused of lying because they reported that the Sun set on the
opposite side of the ship as they got further south.


|
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mscottschillin

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Since: Dec 16, 2003
Posts: 87



(Msg. 20) Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:56 am
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"Malcolm" <regniztar.DeleteThis@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:dpcgsv$qu2$4@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>>
> The Phonecians mounted an expedition round Africa.
> The ships sailed with wheat on board, and made the journey by
> disembarking, sowing crops, and thus providing enough food to live on
> indefinitely.
>
> They were accused of lying because they reported that the Sun set on the
> opposite side of the ship as they got further south.


That is a lie; it wouldn't set on the other side until they'd turned north
again..
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user311

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Posts: 74



(Msg. 21) Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:28 am
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Bree <bree.TakeThisOut@bree.com> writes:

> >Certain flat-earther homepages
>
> I don't suppose flat-earthers would necessarily reject the internet....

Well, the internet is a meeting place for lunatics. Would be a good
place for them flat-earthers.
--
Peter B. Juul, o.-.o
The RockBear. ((^))
I speak only 0}._.{0
for myself. O/ \O
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Gerry Quinn

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Posts: 3



(Msg. 22) Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:10 am
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In article <RYjuf.5745$UF3.3024@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>,
mscottschilling.RemoveThis@hotmail.com says...
>
> "Malcolm" <regniztar.RemoveThis@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:dpcgsv$qu2$4@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> >>
> > The Phonecians mounted an expedition round Africa.
> > The ships sailed with wheat on board, and made the journey by
> > disembarking, sowing crops, and thus providing enough food to live on
> > indefinitely.
> >
> > They were accused of lying because they reported that the Sun set on the
> > opposite side of the ship as they got further south.
>
>
> That is a lie; it wouldn't set on the other side until they'd turned north
> again..

I have no idea of the veracity of the tale, but I think what he means
may be that they had no clear conception of 'south' except to follow
the coast, so they would have rounded the Cape of Good Hope and
travelled up the east coast, observing that the sunset had changed
direction.

Of course if they did a full circumnavigation (presumably finishing by
travelling overland to some Phoenicean outpost in the Middle East), one
would expect the phenomenon would have been quickly explained, so it
all sounds a bit dubious.

- Gerry Quinn
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junius1771

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Since: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 4



(Msg. 23) Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:25 pm
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westprog wrote:

> "Kurt Busiek" <kurtbusiek RemoveThis @aol.comics> wrote in message
> news:2005123109321150073-kurtbusiek@aolcomics...
> > > Would the
> > > Emerald Witch have used such rockets in the war to conquer Narnia?
>
> > Depends on how they work, how they're made, where they're useful and
> > what situations they're useful in -- see earlier discussions.
>
> I'm pretty sure that Lewis would have regarded this discussion - and most of
> the Tim Bruening discussion points - as completely crazy. The sewing machine
> and the lampost wear thrown in as picturesque anachronisms. Narnia doesn't
> have an economy, or a political philosophy, or even a climate. Gondor might
> be a different kettle of fish.
>
> J/

Economic assumptions aren't totally absent from Narnia, I would think.
Governor Gumpas in the Lone Islands (which are at the time, admittedly,
under strong Calormene influence and with no regular links to the
Narnian mainland) makes use of them when trying to justify the slave
trade to Caspian.
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junius1771

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Posts: 4



(Msg. 24) Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:25 pm
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westprog wrote:

> "Kurt Busiek" <kurtbusiek.TakeThisOut@aol.comics> wrote in message
> news:2005123109321150073-kurtbusiek@aolcomics...
> > > Would the
> > > Emerald Witch have used such rockets in the war to conquer Narnia?
>
> > Depends on how they work, how they're made, where they're useful and
> > what situations they're useful in -- see earlier discussions.
>
> I'm pretty sure that Lewis would have regarded this discussion - and most of
> the Tim Bruening discussion points - as completely crazy. The sewing machine
> and the lampost wear thrown in as picturesque anachronisms. Narnia doesn't
> have an economy, or a political philosophy, or even a climate. Gondor might
> be a different kettle of fish.
>
> J/

Economic assumptions aren't totally absent from Narnia, I would think.
Governor Gumpas in the Lone Islands (which are at the time, admittedly,
under strong Calormene influence and with no regular links to the
Narnian mainland) makes use of them when trying to justify the slave
trade to Caspian.
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junius1771

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Since: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 4



(Msg. 25) Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:26 pm
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westprog wrote:

> "Kurt Busiek" <kurtbusiek.RemoveThis@aol.comics> wrote in message
> news:2005123109321150073-kurtbusiek@aolcomics...
> > > Would the
> > > Emerald Witch have used such rockets in the war to conquer Narnia?
>
> > Depends on how they work, how they're made, where they're useful and
> > what situations they're useful in -- see earlier discussions.
>
> I'm pretty sure that Lewis would have regarded this discussion - and most of
> the Tim Bruening discussion points - as completely crazy. The sewing machine
> and the lampost wear thrown in as picturesque anachronisms. Narnia doesn't
> have an economy, or a political philosophy, or even a climate. Gondor might
> be a different kettle of fish.
>
> J/

Economic assumptions aren't totally absent from Narnia, I would think.
Governor Gumpas in the Lone Islands (which are at the time, admittedly,
under strong Calormene influence and with no regular links to the
Narnian mainland) makes use of them when trying to justify the slave
trade to Caspian.
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westprog

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Posts: 19



(Msg. 26) Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:51 am
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<junius1771 RemoveThis @msn.com> wrote in message
news:1138152360.257724.162530@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
....
> > I'm pretty sure that Lewis would have regarded this discussion - and
most of
> > the Tim Bruening discussion points - as completely crazy. The sewing
machine
> > and the lampost wear thrown in as picturesque anachronisms. Narnia
doesn't
> > have an economy, or a political philosophy, or even a climate. Gondor
might
> > be a different kettle of fish.

> Economic assumptions aren't totally absent from Narnia, I would think.
> Governor Gumpas in the Lone Islands (which are at the time, admittedly,
> under strong Calormene influence and with no regular links to the
> Narnian mainland) makes use of them when trying to justify the slave
> trade to Caspian.

That's what Lewis thinks about economic factors - they are un-Narnian, and
should be abolished.

J/
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tsbrueni

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Posts: 812



(Msg. 27) Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:28 am
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westprog wrote:

> "Kurt Busiek" <kurtbusiek RemoveThis @aol.comics> wrote in message
> news:2005123109321150073-kurtbusiek@aolcomics...
> > > Would the
> > > Emerald Witch have used such rockets in the war to conquer Narnia?
>
> > Depends on how they work, how they're made, where they're useful and
> > what situations they're useful in -- see earlier discussions.
>
> I'm pretty sure that Lewis would have regarded this discussion - and most of
> the Tim Bruening discussion points - as completely crazy. The sewing machine
> and the lampost wear thrown in as picturesque anachronisms. Narnia doesn't
> have an economy, or a political philosophy, or even a climate. Gondor might
> be a different kettle of fish.

Never the less, he included the sewing machine, and we have a right to
extrapolate from the sewing machine to speculate about Narnian
technology and
economics.

At least Lewis did explain the lamppost.

I wasn't the one who first mentioned the sewing machine anyway.

Narnia definitely has a climate! It was cold early in LWW, and much
warmer
later on!
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tsbrueni

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Posts: 812



(Msg. 28) Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:34 am
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Malcolm wrote:

> <rja.carnegie RemoveThis @excite.com> wrote
> >
> > More seriously... winter is normal. Permanent winter with no Christmas
> > is not.
> >
> > Christmas, after all, represents - or /is/ - the Nativity.
> >
> The polar regions are in permanent winter.

Not for much longer!
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tsbrueni

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(Msg. 29) Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:35 am
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"Peter B. Juul" wrote:

> rja.carnegie.DeleteThis@excite.com writes:
>
> > Hmm... does Narnia's world have polar regions?
>
> No. Narnia is a flat world, so none of your geographic preconceptions
> will fit.

Yet the northern regions seem colder than the southern regions.
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tsbrueni

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(Msg. 30) Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:46 am
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Malcolm wrote:

> "Paul Ciszek" <nospam RemoveThis @nospam.com> wrote
> > However, the Greeks were in communication with some folks
> > not very far from the equator, and by Roman times I think some lands
> > on the equator were known about and possibly traded with. There
> > would have been no excuse for anyone in the Christian era to think
> > that the equator was uninhabitable or impassible.
> >
> The Phonecians mounted an expedition round Africa.
> The ships sailed with wheat on board, and made the journey by disembarking,
> sowing crops, and thus providing enough food to live on indefinitely.

That sounds very tedious!

> They were accused of lying because they reported that the Sun set on the
> opposite side of the ship as they got further south.

They saw the sun setting in the East?
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