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SPOILER HERE Ringworlds Children

 
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tanada

External


Since: Feb 29, 2004
Posts: 25



(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:49 am
Post subject: SPOILER HERE Ringworlds Children
Archived from groups: alt>books>larry-niven (more info?)

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OK I warned you Wink

At the end of RWC Louis wakes up back as a breeder stage Human. He comments
that he feels stupid or words to that effect and the Hindmost implied that
the nano Doc can switch him back and forth from Breeder to Protector stage
at will, all he has to do is choose the setting and get back in to return to
Protector stage.

I would take that deal in a heartbeat! I would go back to being a
Protector, design/invent saleable technology, explore what it means to be a
Protector stage human, and once I was satisfied that Humanity was still safe
I would go back to being a Breeder stage human for a while. Every 20 years
or so I would have aged enough to reasonably spend a period, say a year, as
a Protector, then go back to being a Breeder. It is the best of both
worlds, you have your youth, and you have your wisdom when you need it.

Another thing, it occurred to me that one could argue that Louis Wu is the
one with the selfish luck gene, he has reproduced biologically a number of
times, he has descendents in the ARM, on several if not all the human colony
worlds, on Earth and on Ringworld. His wild oats are spread about as far as
humanly possible for his era.

Allen W.

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tim2

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Since: Jul 07, 2004
Posts: 15



(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:30 am
Post subject: Re: SPOILER HERE Ringworlds Children [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

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 > OK I warned you Wink
 >
 > At the end of RWC Louis wakes up back as a breeder stage Human. He
comments
 > that he feels stupid or words to that effect and the Hindmost implied that
 > the nano Doc can switch him back and forth from Breeder to Protector stage
 > at will, all he has to do is choose the setting and get back in to return
to
 > Protector stage.
 >
 > I would take that deal in a heartbeat! I would go back to being a
 > Protector, design/invent saleable technology, explore what it means to be
a
 > Protector stage human, and once I was satisfied that Humanity was still
safe
 > I would go back to being a Breeder stage human for a while. Every 20
years
 > or so I would have aged enough to reasonably spend a period, say a year,
as
 > a Protector, then go back to being a Breeder.

I can't imagine a protector ever convincing itself that humanity would be
safe. Any protector, given the choice would keep on protecting. In fact,
a protector should have foreseen that the doc would fix him back to Wu and
adjusted the machine before hand.

--

I loved how fast Niven puts us into the action. It almost makes up for the
fact the novel is gaunt. The visions of having to repair a huge antimatter
hole with a huge inflateble scrith donut was increadible<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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tanada

External


Since: Feb 29, 2004
Posts: 25



(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:01 am
Post subject: Re: SPOILER HERE Ringworlds Children [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Orlun" <tim.TakeThisOut@buck.to> wrote in message
news:10epfvgeonnvcc2@corp.supernews.com...
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  > > OK I warned you Wink
  > >
  > > At the end of RWC Louis wakes up back as a breeder stage Human. He
 > comments
  > > that he feels stupid or words to that effect and the Hindmost implied
that
  > > the nano Doc can switch him back and forth from Breeder to Protector
stage
  > > at will, all he has to do is choose the setting and get back in to
return
 > to
  > > Protector stage.
  > >
  > > I would take that deal in a heartbeat! I would go back to being a
  > > Protector, design/invent saleable technology, explore what it means to
be
 > a
  > > Protector stage human, and once I was satisfied that Humanity was still
 > safe
  > > I would go back to being a Breeder stage human for a while. Every 20
 > years
  > > or so I would have aged enough to reasonably spend a period, say a year,
 > as
  > > a Protector, then go back to being a Breeder.
 >
 > I can't imagine a protector ever convincing itself that humanity would be
 > safe. Any protector, given the choice would keep on protecting. In
fact,
 > a protector should have foreseen that the doc would fix him back to Wu and
 > adjusted the machine before hand.
 >

But Louis-Protector did that deliberatly so that he could not seek out the
new location of the Ringworld where his child and grand child now reside.
My argument is he has other children on various colony worlds to look out
for so he would not have to seek out the Ringworld.


 > --
 >
 > I loved how fast Niven puts us into the action. It almost makes up for
the
 > fact the novel is gaunt. The visions of having to repair a huge
antimatter
 > hole with a huge inflateble scrith donut was increadible
 >
 >

It was small, and it certainly made the ARM appear very reckless in there
treatment of other species habitats. I can not imagine a Belter being so
cavalier about shooting holes or risking explosions in an artificial
habitat!

I hesitated to buy it, but everyone was saying it was Great and I am glad I
did, I rate it between Ringworld and Ringworld Engineers, and I think
Ringworld Throne should be expunged from the series.

Allen W.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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scary_penguin

External


Since: Jul 12, 2004
Posts: 1



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:44 pm
Post subject: Re: SPOILER HERE Ringworlds Children [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Allen W. McDonnell" <tanada.RemoveThis@provide.net> wrote in message news:<OLGdnXIq7ouYGXfd4p2dnA.RemoveThis@provide.net>...

<cut>

(more

spoilers


coming

stop

reading

now

or

be

spoiled)

 > Another thing, it occurred to me that one could argue that Louis Wu is the
 > one with the selfish luck gene, he has reproduced biologically a number of
 > times, he has descendents in the ARM, on several if not all the human colony
 > worlds, on Earth and on Ringworld. His wild oats are spread about as far as
 > humanly possible for his era.

Three thoughts:

1) Well, it's another reason the "luck gene" doesn't make sense, but
you raise a good point - wouldn't all children of a lucky genetic line
be male?

Arguably, Teela had to be female and hot to get to come along with
Louis, and any human stranded on the RW is going to have limited
reproductive opportunities in the short run. Still, it would have
been luckier for Teela to be male and have a female companion who went
Pak then the other way around).

2) With the RW lost in known space, how lucky does Teela's line have
to be to avoid inbreeding?

3) One more random thought - does Tunesmith understand that the kid is
Teela's? If so, is it in his interest to hunt down the last ball
humans or let them live?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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wb8foz

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Since: Oct 03, 2004
Posts: 29



(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:06 am
Post subject: Re: SPOILER HERE Ringworlds Children [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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I saw nary a mention of the energy limits in stepping-disk usage.
Did I miss a page?




--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz.RemoveThis@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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anim8rfsk

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Since: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 121



(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:06 am
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<< From: David Lesher wb8foz.RemoveThis@panix.com >>


<< I saw nary a mention of the energy limits in stepping-disk usage.
Did I miss a page? >>

Sigh

Nope

It's been discussed over on the Niven list. Either Tunesmith designed a new
type of stepping disc, or Larry made a mist . . no, that's too horrible to
contemplate. Tunesmith must have designed a new type of stepping disc. Or
taken a safety catch off the current kind. The odd thing is that Louis doesn't
remark about it.
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user413

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Since: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 29



(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 6:38 pm
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anim8rfsk RemoveThis @aol.comNOSPAM (ANIM8Rfsk) writes:
 ><< I saw nary a mention of the energy limits in stepping-disk usage.
 >Did I miss a page? >>
 >
 >It's been discussed over on the Niven list. Either Tunesmith designed a new
 >type of stepping disc, or Larry made a mist . . no, that's too horrible to
 >contemplate.

I assume you're talking about all the trips to the Other Ocean, where
there's a slight matter of 1540 miles per second difference in velocity?

It seems obvious that the Hindmost and Tunesmith have been massively
extending the stepping disk network, with utility stacks all over the
place. Can you avoid the bursting into flame problem by relaying from stack
to stack, each within the safety limit, instead of making one big jump? The
Other Ocean is probably outside the range of a direct disk jump anyway -
200 million miles or so. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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anim8rfsk

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Since: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 121



(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:59 pm
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<< From: pv+usenet@pobox.com (Paul Vader) >>


<< . Can you avoid the bursting into flame problem by relaying from stack
to stack, each within the safety limit, instead of making one big jump? >>

Yeah, but you appear at each disc, you don't just pass through. And IIRC
Tunesmith had something like 100 stepping discs in the network. I haven't done
the math, but I bet that's not remotely enough to go all the way around the
arch.
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user413

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Since: Aug 31, 2004
Posts: 29



(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:29 pm
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anim8rfsk.TakeThisOut@aol.comNOSPAM (ANIM8Rfsk) writes:
 >Yeah, but you appear at each disc, you don't just pass through. And IIRC

Do we know that for sure? Maybe there's a relay function that just routes
you through, burning off the excess kinetic energy in the process. We saw
several transits during Children, and it doesn't appear that travellers
made each step physically. Stepping disks were handled much more like they
were transit booths, down to the magic poundsign on the manual controls.

 >Tunesmith had something like 100 stepping discs in the network. I haven't done
 >the math, but I bet that's not remotely enough to go all the way around the
 >arch.

I thought it was far more than that. He had a assembly line running, er, 30
hours a day. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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anim8rfsk

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Since: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 121



(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:00 am
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<< From: pv+usenet@pobox.com (Paul Vader) >>


<< >Yeah, but you appear at each disc, you don't just pass through. >>

<< Do we know that for sure? >>

It's how it worked before. Now, it's possible it changed, but, once again,
you'd want Louis to mention this, since it would be new to him as well.


<< We saw
several transits during Children, and it doesn't appear that travellers
made each step physically. >>

No, they clearly don't. Not in Children.


<< >Tunesmith had something like 100 stepping discs in the network. I haven't
done
 >the math, but I bet that's not remotely enough to go all the way around the
 >arch.

I thought it was far more than that. He had a assembly line running, er, 30
hours a day. * >>

I'd have to look it up, but Niven gave a number, and IIRC it was about 100.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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wb8foz

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Since: Oct 03, 2004
Posts: 29



(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:23 pm
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Some more inconsistancies...none very spoiling...

Kzin are described as plains cats, not climbers, true? [The flycycles in jail event]
But then Acolyte climbs the tree...

How old was Teela when she came along on the first expedition?



--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz RemoveThis @nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
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anim8rfsk

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Since: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 121



(Msg. 12) Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:33 pm
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<< From: David Lesher wb8foz DeleteThis @panix.com >>


<< How old was Teela when she came along on the first expedition? >>

In RW she was 20 -- exactly 10% of Louis 200.

"One Teela Brown had somehow ended up nose to nose and breast to breast with
him. Her skin was blue with a netting of silver threads; her coiffure was
streaming bonfire flames; her eyes were convex mirrors. She was twenty years
old. Louis had talked to her earlier. Her conversation was shallow, full of
cliches and easy enthusiasms; but she was very pretty."

"Teela's composure was complete. And what could Louis do about it? Had she been
under nineteen he would have called one of her parents. But at twenty she was a
presumed adult. You had to draw the line somewhere. "
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jdg

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Since: Jul 12, 2003
Posts: 19



(Msg. 13) Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:43 pm
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 > << . Can you avoid the bursting into flame problem by relaying from stack
 > to stack, each within the safety limit, instead of making one big jump? >>

ANIM8Rfsk wrote:
 > Yeah, but you appear at each disc, you don't just pass through. And IIRC
 > Tunesmith had something like 100 stepping discs in the network. I haven't done
 > the math, but I bet that's not remotely enough to go all the way around the
 > arch.

It's not. For anything beyond a few hundred miles, you would either need to
shunt some velocity to an inertial damper (Flash Crowd), or have a pool of
water at the receiving end (Vinge's "The Witling").<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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