School's out for the summer!

"Tristaan" <tristaanus.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5bnd449a505v593fmc7uinpn5rdpoa781f@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 20:41:06 -0700, Rhino7 stomped through my
> brain with:
>
>>The Bookwurm (who, of course, wants to see the paper to find out how the
>>ogre dealt with the important issue of dwarf-tossing)
>
> One thing I'll note from my analysis while doing this paper, the
> books elicit a sense of pity and regret that Gollum did not
> convert to good (check out the scene from the book "The Two
> Towers" where we see almost a physical transformation of
> Gollum/Smeagol when he encounters Sam and Frodo asleep on the
> stairs).

That's true. There's much regret surrounding Gollum in the books. {smile}

> For the movies, that sense of pity and regret is there mixed with
> a sense of anger as we see Smeagol being mistreated by Faramir
> and his men. In the books, Gollum's sense of betrayal was
> understood... and given time, you almost think that Frodo and Sam
> could have over come it. Faramir's men, with their beating and
> kicking of Gollum in the movie, pretty much slammed the door at
> any continuing possibility of redemption for Gollum. Not only
> was Gollum betrayed, but he was betrayed into the hands of men
> who, for the most part, didn't treat him a whole lot better than
> the tormentors in Barad-dur.

Thanks for pointing that out. I think you have a real point. {Smile}

> Tristaan

Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
 >> Stay informed about: School's out for the summer! 

"Ree" <geet.TakeThisOut@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:484956d8$1@news.bnb-lp.com...
> Anne Elizabeth Baldwin wrote:
>> "Ree" <geet.TakeThisOut@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:48474b30$1@news.bnb-lp.com...
>>> Anne Elizabeth Baldwin wrote:
>>>> "Ree" <geet.TakeThisOut@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>>> news:48450827@news.bnb-lp.com...
>>>>> Tristaan wrote:
>>>>> (snippage)
>>>>>> FYI, if y'all are interested in reading the paper, let me know
>>>>>> and I'll forward you a copy. My e-mail addy is here but is spam
>>>>>> trapped... Tristaan
>>>>> I tried to reply but I got a mail admin saying tristaan.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com
>>>>> didn't exist. I
>>>>> know Firesong says your'e just a figment but we figments should
>>>>> be able to stick together!
>>>>>
>>>>> Ree.
>>>> Try replacing the "us" with "ogre" instead of just taking it out. I
>>>> think that's what he says to do in his sig. {SMILE, wink}
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Yeah he corrected me on that. Thanks anyway though.
>>>
>>> Ree
>>
>> I should have known he'd explain things. {rueful Smile}
>>
>>
>> Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
>>
>>
>
> Better to have 2 people helping out than none!
>
> Ree

Thanks for reminding me of that. {WARM SMILE}


Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
 >> Stay informed about: School's out for the summer! 

Anne Elizabeth Baldwin wrote:
> <"m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage]"@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>Aaron wrote:
>>
>>>Tristaan wrote:
>>
<snip>
>>>When I was in the navy I met a man who refused to see any movie that did
>>>not directly promote Christian values; I sometimes wonder what he would
<snip>
>>Not see Star Wars! How do the Star Wars movies qualify as not promoting
>>good values (whatever your particular religious system)? I can see how
>>some of the ultra-conservative, "women should never appear in public
>>without layers of fabric all over" types might not like Leia's outfit in
>>the beginning of "Return", but... Good Guys, Bad Guys, Good Guys win,
>>nobody sleeps with anybody before marriage... where's the bad?
>
> The only complaints I can think of are the dress code and that it does
> not encourage belief in a deity. "The Force" doesn't seem conscious, let
> alone personable like God. I could see this bothering some folks, and not
> all of them Christian. {smile} The Force is closer to The Tao than to any
> deity I know of... and the Tao is neither caring nor basically good, like
> God is supposed to be. {Smile}

Maybe that's why I like the Force more than the Christian God.
:> More peaceful, less pestering. (Although it is the followers
of the Christian God that do most of the pestering, not the
diety. Postcards and knocking on my door and...)

Dress code... eh. They didn't go 'Love! Valour! Compassion!" on
the audience. What more does a nice movie goer want? There was
only the one (very memorable) outfit to complain of... unless
someone wants to complain about the outfits the Ewoks wore. And
Chewie.

Most of the time, most of the characters were very conservatively
dressed. A mercy and a kindness to the audience, in the case of
the Emperor.

--
Megan
Journeyperson Dancing Barbarian
Keeper o' the FAQ: http://home.earthlink.net/~m_thomas3/abml/
 >> Stay informed about: School's out for the summer! 

Tristaan wrote:

> That's one of the things that we talked about in the class. You
> just presented a theme that is common in almost ALL Hollywood
> movies since day 1. In fact, waaaaaaay back, there was a set of
> "rules" published to which all movie makers had to comply that
> said, essentially, no bad deed should go unpunished and that the
> good guys should always succeed in some way. But essentially,
> this is what sells movies, with a few minor exceptions. Movies
> are made for primary, overpoweringly simple reason: to entertain.
> And ultimately, we are entertained when the reality presented is
> "more real" than the reality in which we live.

> So, when we see Darth Vader turn good at the end of Return of the
> Jedi, that's what we always KNEW should happen. It's what we
> expect. Would Return of the Jedi have done so well if Luke had
> turned to the Dark Side? Probably not because that wouldn't have
> been "right".

> So, our American "story" dictates to the movies how they should
> represent reality.

Which makes it much more interesting to see movies from a culture with a
different outlook and pattern of expectations than the American.

Even more so when you can put the original and American remake next to
each other. Interesting examples would be e.g. The original Dutch movie
'Spoorloos' and the American remake 'The vanishing' (I think I got the
names right) or out of the many French movies that got remade by
Hollywood 'Un elephant ca trompe enormemant' and 'The woman in Red'.

The remake of the Dutch movie especially got told to change the original
ending or the movie would not be released in the USA (due to the extreme
departure of what the American audience would find acceptable in a
movie). The French movies often show entirely different concepts of
story telling (and humour) compared to the American remakes.

And if you want to broaden your subject you could take a look at comic
books written for adults (not necessarily in the meaning that the word
has gotten in the USA, but in the original meaning of not being intended
for children and teenagers due to the story subject, theme and treatment
as well as painting a more realistic image of reality).
There are some very good American, French and Japanese artists that draw
and write stories that are on par with modern literature (though of
necessity comics tend to go for abbreviation and externalisation because
the medium does not encourage monologues and internalisation of the
protagonist's motivations and character development. As such it is
closer to movies than literature. It needs to literally -show- what
happens emotionally as it does not have the room to describe it).
Finding good American comic writers should not be too difficult. For
French I would recommend starting to look at Moebius (He is responsible
for some of the story and much of the art direction in the movie Fifth
Element. The original comic is less American and more French). There are
several other French artists who are as good or you might even find
better, but his work is most likely easily found in the USA.
For Japanese it is going to be difficult to find good. Mostly what gets
imported are mangas based on or inspiring children's cartoons. It is a
genre that has very strict 'rules' and that does not typically lend
itself to quality writing. (Not to mention that reading Japanese is
unlikely to happen and that the translations almost invariably do a
horrible butcher job on the original story in an attempt to americanise
it). It is almost cliched, but Akira is at its heart a futuristic story
that adresses a number of social, scientific and cultural developments
that are quite damaging if not somehow kept in check. The animated movie
you may have seen does attempt to keep some of the original comic intact
but is subject of course to the same forces as any movie adaptation. It
is still a very Japanese story and not one that would have been possible
from any Hollywood studio.


Eri
--
Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world,
out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of
my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again
will there be loneliness ...

Rolan Choosing Talia,
Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey
 >> Stay informed about: School's out for the summer! 

>> I assume that for your class they provided the movies to watch, but did
>> they provide the popcorn???
>
> Actually... we were only provided with 1 actual film by the
> class (a film called "Sullivan's Travels"). The rest we had to
> obtain copies of our own for viewing during the trimester. We
> had lists to work off of for movies from particular eras and
> themes. So, I opened up a NetFlix account and got my money's
> worth... 3 movies a week for 6 weeks at $17.00 a month... I made
> out like a bandit.

I am surprised they did not make you buy them at the campus bookstore
for $110 each, and you were not allowed to buy used DVDs.

> Final film for the class? Field trip to a local theatre to see
> Harrison Ford crack his whip again as Indiana Jones..

That is on my 'to see' list. We do not go to the movies often, we tend
to watch them on the boobtube or buy them as DVD. A lot of movies are
released for private viewing so much sooner these days, often within
months, if not sooner.

--
I'm glad my Mom named me Aaron,
That's what everybody calls me.

Hemidemisemideity of Anonymous Eponymity
Patron Saint of Hair Color Changing
Currently: Natural, like a virgin (hair color!)
And it is about |<---->| that short.
Holder of a provisional pedant licens/ce
(limited to the area of physical sciens/ce)
Member of ABMLNCSC - Base singer, very base
"Mommy, make daddy stop singing".

I dye my hair so much my driver's license
has a color wheel. Nancy Mura
 >> Stay informed about: School's out for the summer! 

Aaron wrote:
>>> I assume that for your class they provided the movies to watch, but
>>> did they provide the popcorn???
>>
>> Actually... we were only provided with 1 actual film by the
>> class (a film called "Sullivan's Travels"). The rest we had to
>> obtain copies of our own for viewing during the trimester. We
>> had lists to work off of for movies from particular eras and
>> themes. So, I opened up a NetFlix account and got my money's
>> worth... 3 movies a week for 6 weeks at $17.00 a month... I made
>> out like a bandit.
>
> I am surprised they did not make you buy them at the campus bookstore
> for $110 each, and you were not allowed to buy used DVDs.

I did once purchase a movie for $100. Actually, persuaded the
university to buy it.

Professors wouldn't do that to students. Profs do *try* to keep
textbook expenses down. (With limited results. Old books are
cheap books, but is a geography professor supposed to teach the
students the world is flat, just because the book would be
cheaper?) Besides, students all buy their textbooks on Ebay,
these days. :>

>> Final film for the class? Field trip to a local theatre to see
>> Harrison Ford crack his whip again as Indiana Jones..
>
> That is on my 'to see' list. We do not go to the movies often, we tend
> to watch them on the boobtube or buy them as DVD. A lot of movies are
> released for private viewing so much sooner these days, often within
> months, if not sooner.

You and me both.

In addition, movie theaters seem to be a lot more irritating
these days. Playing ads in all corners (on TVs up on the wall),
and on the screen before the film, and serving lousy candy... I
can enjoy a movie in peace, quiet, and with the Good Candy, at home.

--
Megan
Journeyperson Dancing Barbarian
Keeper o' the FAQ: http://home.earthlink.net/~m_thomas3/abml/
 >> Stay informed about: School's out for the summer! 

>> Ah, but does it explicitly say "Because they were Christian, the
>> good guys won?" I think that's the point.
>
> Hmmm. No, definitely doesn't say that. Personally, I don't think
> that's a good point to stress -- as long as the Good Guys win, I don't
> care if they are little, purple Xebubbliests.
>
> (Xebubbliests worship the Great Green Clam in the Ground, Xebubbly the
> Round.)

As opposed to the Pastafarians and the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

>>>> I assume that for your class they provided the movies to watch, but
>>>> did they provide the popcorn???
>>>
>>> Ooooo... popcorn...
>>
>> With extra butter.
>
> sigh. And I truly ought not to enjoy the butter so very much. So yummy,
> so fatty...

Then you might like the cheese (flavored) stuff we put on with the
butter. Home made cheesy popcorn...you can even use the grated parmesan
or romano frequently put on Italian dishes (lots of umami).

I *should* leave it as an exercise for the class, but...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umami

--
I'm glad my Mom named me Aaron,
That's what everybody calls me.

Hemidemisemideity of Anonymous Eponymity
Patron Saint of Hair Color Changing
Currently: Natural, like a virgin (hair color!)
And it is about |<---->| that short.
Holder of a provisional pedant licens/ce
(limited to the area of physical sciens/ce)
Member of ABMLNCSC - Base singer, very base
"Mommy, make daddy stop singing".

I dye my hair so much my driver's license
has a color wheel. Nancy Mura
 >> Stay informed about: School's out for the summer! 

Aaron wrote:

>>> Ah, but does it explicitly say "Because they were Christian, the
>>> good guys won?" I think that's the point.
>>
>> Hmmm. No, definitely doesn't say that. Personally, I don't think
>> that's a good point to stress -- as long as the Good Guys win, I don't
>> care if they are little, purple Xebubbliests.
>>
>> (Xebubbliests worship the Great Green Clam in the Ground, Xebubbly the
>> Round.)
>
> As opposed to the Pastafarians and the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

Those Pastafarians are heretics! Unbelievers! Everyone knows
that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a ... uh ... a ... something
very insulting!

Whereas the Great Xebubbly is absolutely the diety to believe in,
these days. All the cool people follow Xebubbly.

(Darn it, how do people go about insulting one another's deities,
these days? In the old days ... uh, actually, I'm a trifle hazy
on old time deity insults, too. "Your deity is a demon; my deity
is real" is all I can come up with. Perhaps with "nee-nur,
nee-nur, nee-nur" tacked on for good measure.)

>>>>> I assume that for your class they provided the movies to watch, but
>>>>> did they provide the popcorn???
>>>>
>>>> Ooooo... popcorn...
>>>
>>> With extra butter.
>>
>> sigh. And I truly ought not to enjoy the butter so very much. So
>> yummy, so fatty...
>
> Then you might like the cheese (flavored) stuff we put on with the
> butter. Home made cheesy popcorn...you can even use the grated parmesan
> or romano frequently put on Italian dishes (lots of umami).

You can put cheese on popcorn? Real chease?

....

That's not a bad idea...

> I *should* leave it as an exercise for the class, but...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umami

Thank you. Heard of the concept, never remember the word. :>

--
Megan
Journeyperson Dancing Barbarian
Keeper o' the FAQ: http://home.earthlink.net/~m_thomas3/abml/
 >> Stay informed about: School's out for the summer! 

"m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage]"
<"m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage]"@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:JOednf6kU-a3_tbVnZ2dnUVZ_oninZ2d@earthlink.com...
> Aaron wrote:
>>>> I assume that for your class they provided the movies to watch, but did
>>>> they provide the popcorn???
>>>
>>> Actually... we were only provided with 1 actual film by the
>>> class (a film called "Sullivan's Travels"). The rest we had to
>>> obtain copies of our own for viewing during the trimester. We
>>> had lists to work off of for movies from particular eras and
>>> themes. So, I opened up a NetFlix account and got my money's
>>> worth... 3 movies a week for 6 weeks at $17.00 a month... I made
>>> out like a bandit.
>>
>> I am surprised they did not make you buy them at the campus bookstore for
>> $110 each, and you were not allowed to buy used DVDs.
>
> I did once purchase a movie for $100. Actually, persuaded the university
> to buy it.
>
> Professors wouldn't do that to students. Profs do *try* to keep textbook
> expenses down. (With limited results. Old books are cheap books, but is
> a geography professor supposed to teach the students the world is flat,
> just because the book would be cheaper?) Besides, students all buy their
> textbooks on Ebay, these days. :>
>
>>> Final film for the class? Field trip to a local theatre to see
>>> Harrison Ford crack his whip again as Indiana Jones..
>>
>> That is on my 'to see' list. We do not go to the movies often, we tend to
>> watch them on the boobtube or buy them as DVD. A lot of movies are
>> released for private viewing so much sooner these days, often within
>> months, if not sooner.
>
> You and me both.
>
> In addition, movie theaters seem to be a lot more irritating these days.
> Playing ads in all corners (on TVs up on the wall), and on the screen
> before the film, and serving lousy candy... I can enjoy a movie in peace,
> quiet, and with the Good Candy, at home.
>
> --
> Megan
> Journeyperson Dancing Barbarian
> Keeper o' the FAQ: http://home.earthlink.net/~m_thomas3/abml/

and with the sub-titles turned on if you desire
rex
 >> Stay informed about: School's out for the summer! 

"Rex Reynolds" <r.c.reynolds RemoveThis @REMOVETHISworldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:7_K2k.27781$102.6280@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage]"
> <"m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage]"@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:JOednf6kU-a3_tbVnZ2dnUVZ_oninZ2d@earthlink.com...
>> Aaron wrote:
>>>>> I assume that for your class they provided the movies to watch, but
>>>>> did they provide the popcorn???
>>>>
>>>> Actually... we were only provided with 1 actual film by the
>>>> class (a film called "Sullivan's Travels"). The rest we had to
>>>> obtain copies of our own for viewing during the trimester. We
>>>> had lists to work off of for movies from particular eras and
>>>> themes. So, I opened up a NetFlix account and got my money's
>>>> worth... 3 movies a week for 6 weeks at $17.00 a month... I made
>>>> out like a bandit.
>>>
>>> I am surprised they did not make you buy them at the campus bookstore
>>> for $110 each, and you were not allowed to buy used DVDs.
>>
>> I did once purchase a movie for $100. Actually, persuaded the university
>> to buy it.
>>
>> Professors wouldn't do that to students. Profs do *try* to keep textbook
>> expenses down. (With limited results. Old books are cheap books, but is
>> a geography professor supposed to teach the students the world is flat,
>> just because the book would be cheaper?) Besides, students all buy their
>> textbooks on Ebay, these days. :>
>>
>>>> Final film for the class? Field trip to a local theatre to see
>>>> Harrison Ford crack his whip again as Indiana Jones..
>>>
>>> That is on my 'to see' list. We do not go to the movies often, we tend
>>> to watch them on the boobtube or buy them as DVD. A lot of movies are
>>> released for private viewing so much sooner these days, often within
>>> months, if not sooner.
>>
>> You and me both.
>>
>> In addition, movie theaters seem to be a lot more irritating these days.
>> Playing ads in all corners (on TVs up on the wall), and on the screen
>> before the film, and serving lousy candy... I can enjoy a movie in
>> peace, quiet, and with the Good Candy, at home.
>>
>> --
>> Megan
>> Journeyperson Dancing Barbarian
>> Keeper o' the FAQ: http://home.earthlink.net/~m_thomas3/abml/
>
> and with the sub-titles turned on if you desire
> rex

Exactly! {BIG SMILE, REALLY BIG GRIN}


Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
 >> Stay informed about: School's out for the summer! 

m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage] wrote:

> (Darn it, how do people go about insulting one another's deities, these
> days? In the old days ... uh, actually, I'm a trifle hazy on old time
> deity insults, too. "Your deity is a demon; my deity is real" is all I
> can come up with. Perhaps with "nee-nur, nee-nur, nee-nur" tacked on
> for good measure.)

*wryly* That was the polite version of disagreement. The impolite
version included torture and genocide.

Of course before that came into vogue people did not usually get worked
up all that much about other people's gods (at least not when they were
not actively at war with them). After all, if you believe in a couple of
dozen gods already a few more is not much of an issue. And after the war
it mostly was a matter of 'we won so obviously our gods are greater than
yours, but your god really is similar to this minor god of ours so we
will just tack on his or her name to ours and call it good enough'.

It was only when people started claiming exclusivity that things could
get really ugly at the religious front of conflicts.


Eri
--
Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world,
out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of
my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again
will there be loneliness ...

Rolan Choosing Talia,
Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey
 >> Stay informed about: School's out for the summer! 

"Aaron" <kemtek.1.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:JyG2k.107$ul.98@trndny08...
>>> I assume that for your class they provided the movies to watch, but did
>>> they provide the popcorn???
>>
>> Actually... we were only provided with 1 actual film by the
>> class (a film called "Sullivan's Travels"). The rest we had to
>> obtain copies of our own for viewing during the trimester. We
>> had lists to work off of for movies from particular eras and
>> themes. So, I opened up a NetFlix account and got my money's
>> worth... 3 movies a week for 6 weeks at $17.00 a month... I made
>> out like a bandit.
>
> I am surprised they did not make you buy them at the campus bookstore for
> $110 each, and you were not allowed to buy used DVDs.

It's getting harder and harder to enforce that rule. The internet is good
for ensuring that. {SMILE}

>> Final film for the class? Field trip to a local theatre to see
>> Harrison Ford crack his whip again as Indiana Jones..
>
> That is on my 'to see' list. We do not go to the movies often, we tend to
> watch them on the boobtube or buy them as DVD. A lot of movies are
> released for private viewing so much sooner these days, often within
> months, if not sooner.

I find home viewing SO much more pleasant! {HAPPY SMILE}


Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
 >> Stay informed about: School's out for the summer! 

"m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage]"
<"m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage]"@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:JOednf6kU-a3_tbVnZ2dnUVZ_oninZ2d@earthlink.com...
> Aaron wrote:
>>>> I assume that for your class they provided the movies to watch, but did
>>>> they provide the popcorn???
>>>
>>> Actually... we were only provided with 1 actual film by the
>>> class (a film called "Sullivan's Travels"). The rest we had to
>>> obtain copies of our own for viewing during the trimester. We
>>> had lists to work off of for movies from particular eras and
>>> themes. So, I opened up a NetFlix account and got my money's
>>> worth... 3 movies a week for 6 weeks at $17.00 a month... I made
>>> out like a bandit.
>>
>> I am surprised they did not make you buy them at the campus bookstore for
>> $110 each, and you were not allowed to buy used DVDs.
>
> I did once purchase a movie for $100. Actually, persuaded the university
> to buy it.
>
> Professors wouldn't do that to students. Profs do *try* to keep textbook
> expenses down. (With limited results. Old books are cheap books, but is
> a geography professor supposed to teach the students the world is flat,
> just because the book would be cheaper?) Besides, students all buy their
> textbooks on Ebay, these days. :>

Professors try to keep costs down, but the administration isn't always
that helpful. However, with the internet, it's getting easier for profs and
students to get around silly rules like that. {BIG SMILE}

>>> Final film for the class? Field trip to a local theatre to see
>>> Harrison Ford crack his whip again as Indiana Jones..
>>
>> That is on my 'to see' list. We do not go to the movies often, we tend to
>> watch them on the boobtube or buy them as DVD. A lot of movies are
>> released for private viewing so much sooner these days, often within
>> months, if not sooner.
>
> You and me both.
>
> In addition, movie theaters seem to be a lot more irritating these days.
> Playing ads in all corners (on TVs up on the wall), and on the screen
> before the film, and serving lousy candy... I can enjoy a movie in peace,
> quiet, and with the Good Candy, at home.

And with the lights and pause button available if I want a break, as well
as the ability to turn on the subtitles so I can understand what's being
said well enough to follow more minor plots and plot twists as well as the
great arc. {SMILE}


Anne Elizabeth Baldwin
 >> Stay informed about: School's out for the summer!