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Next: my life as a dog
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External
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Posts: 1164
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(Msg. 46) Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:55 am
Post subject: Re: School's out for the summer! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:46:56 -0700,
m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage] stomped through my brain with:
> "They will know we are Christians by our love" Is it
>> loving to try and force feed something that they don't want? Or
>> is it better to show by example and by action that I DO believe
>> what I say I believe and, by doing so, open the door for people
>> to ask "What makes you different?"
>
>That's also simply a more practical way to do it. Knocking on
>someone's door (how do they *know* when I'm in the bathroom?) is
>just not going to get many converts. And will tick off about a
>billion people for every one convert.
Heh... if you read the book of Acts and the epistles of Paul,
you'll find that most of the opportunities for the apostles to
evangelize were not due to specific efforts to spread the gospel,
but by working directly with people, meeting their needs, showing
the love of God through the Spirit, and answering their questions
truthfully and honestly to the best of their ability.
There were occasions for "preaching" but those were in specific
environments. These Jewish fishermen would travel to a city in
Asia Minor and visit their local synagogue. While there, they
would engage in scholarly discussion and conversation concerning
the Messiah.
Honestly, who's going to listen to me telling them how to live
their life when they don't know me from Adam? Who am I to tell
them what they are doing wrong (or right) when I don't even know
WHO they are and what their life situation is? It's better to
involve myself in their lives in some way, build the relationship
and then, through that relationship show the love of God.
Does this mean that I think there is more than one way to live?
No. I firmly believe (and I know y'all don't agree with me) that
The Way is the ONLY way. BUT...I'm not going to stop relating to
people just because they disagree with me. Instead, I'm going to
do my best, with God's help, to live my life according to the
Way, praying that through my example people will see that Truth
and come to know Him as I do.
Flame me, burn me at the stake, whatever... it's what I believe.
Tristaan
--
Beware Spam Trap!: "us" is an "ogre"
*******************************************************
Ogre-Monk, AIM TristaanOgre
"So good-bye for now and I'll see you again
Some way, some how
When it's my time to go to the other side
I'll hold you again and melt at your smile
Now I have all the ones that I am with
You taught me not to take for granted
The time that we have to show that we care
Speak into their lives and their hearts while they're here
And say I LOVE YOU!!"
~Disciple "Things Left Unsaid"
Theologian in training http://ballymennoniteblogger.blogspot.com/
******************************************************* |
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External
Since: May 04, 2005
Posts: 58
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(Msg. 47) Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:46 am
Post subject: Re: School's out for the summer! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Tristaan wrote:
<snippage>
> Honestly, who's going to listen to me telling them how to live
> their life when they don't know me from Adam? Who am I to tell
> them what they are doing wrong (or right) when I don't even know
> WHO they are and what their life situation is? It's better to
> involve myself in their lives in some way, build the relationship
> and then, through that relationship show the love of God.
>
> Does this mean that I think there is more than one way to live?
> No. I firmly believe (and I know y'all don't agree with me) that
> The Way is the ONLY way. BUT...I'm not going to stop relating to
> people just because they disagree with me. Instead, I'm going to
> do my best, with God's help, to live my life according to the
> Way, praying that through my example people will see that Truth
> and come to know Him as I do.
>
> Flame me, burn me at the stake, whatever... it's what I believe.
>
In all the time that I've known you, you have never tried to force
your beliefs on *anyone* - you just quietly live your life your way.
That's a major improvement over so many so-called Christians who have
tried to convince me that their way of worshiping is the only way to
worship.
And we won't even get into my husband's ex-wife who's belonged to more
splinter groups than I can count!
No flames, Tris, you're a true Christian gentleman.
--
Purrt the ghatta
Smitten Kitten
Part-time gryphon
Disciple to the Goddess of Chocolate
Owner of a full Pedant's licenc/se
Goddess of Impertinence
Snikkrish the Tearer
Carpe Bean |
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m_thomas[numBksInLastHrld
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Since: Oct 03, 2007
Posts: 323
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(Msg. 48) Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:08 pm
Post subject: Re: School's out for the summer! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Tristaan wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:46:56 -0700,
> m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage] stomped through my brain with:
>
<snip- door-to-door-knockers>
>>That's also simply a more practical way to do it. Knocking on
>>someone's door (how do they *know* when I'm in the bathroom?) is
>>just not going to get many converts. And will tick off about a
>>billion people for every one convert.
>
> Heh... if you read the book of Acts and the epistles of Paul,
> you'll find that most of the opportunities for the apostles to
> evangelize were not due to specific efforts to spread the gospel,
> but by working directly with people, meeting their needs, showing
> the love of God through the Spirit, and answering their questions
> truthfully and honestly to the best of their ability.
<snip>
I'll take your word for it. My game plan to read all the Great
Works of World Religions has become the plan to read all the
*short* Great Works. And selected materials from the others.
> Does this mean that I think there is more than one way to live?
> No. I firmly believe (and I know y'all don't agree with me) that
> The Way is the ONLY way. BUT...I'm not going to stop relating to
> people just because they disagree with me. Instead, I'm going to
> do my best, with God's help, to live my life according to the
> Way, praying that through my example people will see that Truth
> and come to know Him as I do.
And, as long as you continue to be a good example but not beat
people about the head, those of us who spent too much time as
beat-ees will be fine. (I learned to run like a kitten
confronting a vacuum cleaner, which stopped most of the
browbeating. Or stopped me from hearing it, anyway.)
I worry about people who treat their religion like a soda pop
brand that needs selling. Billboards and postcards and tables in
malls... seems faintly disrespectful to me. But I see a lot of
folks think differently.
(Billboards with grammatical errors seem especially rude. Argh.)
--
Megan
Journeyperson Dancing Barbarian
Keeper o' the FAQ: http://home.earthlink.net/~m_thomas3/abml/ >> Stay informed about: School's out for the summer! |
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Since: Apr 18, 2008
Posts: 71
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(Msg. 49) Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:46 pm
Post subject: Re: School's out for the summer! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Tristaan" <tristaanus.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9ufq44het53mjbh1a0ep7ocssr7p46c5ih@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 11:19:53 -1000, "Anne Elizabeth Baldwin"
> <anneb @ aloha . net> stomped through my brain with:
>
>>> I would think that, considering the original authors, your friend
>>> would not go see LotR but would see Narnia.
>>
>> That sounds suspiciously likely. However, it would depend in part on if
>>he found theologians talking about either, and what he thought of those
>>people and what they said. {small smile}
>
> Interestingly enough, there's a lot of theological discussion
> going on about both the two series and the movies. Christianity
> Today has a number of specific resources on those two films as
> well as links to different theological discussions on the films
> and the literature.
That does sound interesting. {Smile}
>> I do think he'd need the talk to realize either _might_ qualify. I
>>didn't spot
>>anything in the advertising of any of the films that would clue someone
>>in to the Christian influences in either. {smile}
>
> Hollywood has to maintain a religiously neutral stance for a
> variety of reasons. Some of it may simply be an enmity towards
> Christianity because, historically, Christianity and Hollywood
> have been at odds on a number of things. However, it may also be
> simply that they are trying to be universally accepted. If they
> advertise too strongly the Christian themes of the films, they'll
> lose a lot of audience (and box office receipts) from those
> people who will avoid those films just for that reason.
Oh, I understand that. I'm just not sure how clear folks like this fellow
would be on this. {Smile}
>> True, but again it depends on who you encounter talking about it. I've
>>encountered
>>a few pans of Narnia as "Christianity Lite." If that's his first
>>encounter with the series, I'd rate his chances of being interested as
>>much
>>lower. {lop-sided smile}
>
> One thing to keep in mind is that Narnia is written as children's
> books. You can't expect heavily in depth Christian theming in
> books for kids... they wouldn't get it.
Kids like Megan and me miss what's there the first few times as it is.
{Smile}
Besides, it's meant to be entertaining enough to keep the kids reading,
as well as educational. It's hard to preach much and keep things
entertaining. {Smile}
> So, it deals more with
> basics and simple concepts while hinting at some of the deeper
> things (consider the "good" Tash worshiper in the book "The Last
> Battle").
I need to re-read that one. It's been a couple of decades. {SMILE}
>> Now that's a film I wouldn't have expected to fit into your class.
>>{SMILE} Sounds like your instructor was broad minded about the ways
>>Christianity and film connect. {BIG SMILE}
>
> Again, it's not as much a matter of connecting Christianity to
> film all the time. Sometimes, you can find Christian truth in
> non-Christian films (theologians recognize that just because the
> person stating the truth is not Christian does not make the truth
> any less true).
True. I wouldn't call "E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial" a Christian film,
despite it's tendency to show up in sermons occasionally. {BIG SMILE,
chuckle}
> But sometimes you watch the films, not to find
> Christian truth, but to understand better how the rest of society
> views truth, the world, and life. Such understanding is
> necessary to know how to communicate. If I only know
> Christianity and the way Christians think, when I go and speak to
> a non-believer, I'll be speaking one language and they'll be
> listening in another and no communication of ideas will ever
> happen. It's not that I agree necessarily with the films that
> are non-Christian, but that I am attempting to understand those
> viewpoints.
That is a very good point. {Smile}
> Tristaan
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin >> Stay informed about: School's out for the summer! |
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Posts: 71
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(Msg. 50) Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:52 pm
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"victoreia" <inkypaws RemoveThis @hawaii.nospam.rr.com> wrote in message
news:484df5cd$0$7696$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> On 6/8/2008 11:09 PM, Anne Elizabeth Baldwin wrote:
> [snip]
>> Professors try to keep costs down, but the administration isn't always
>> that
>> helpful. However, with the internet, it's getting easier for profs and
>> students to get around silly rules like that. {BIG SMILE}
>>
>
> Sometimes, it's not even the administration! Remember, base pricing for
> textbooks starts with the publishers! And then the school bookstores have
> to make at least a _little_ profit!
True. I was just thinking of the times when the administration is
involved. Sometimes there are rules about not purchasing off-campus and
similar such nonsense. {Smile}
> victoreia ("$100 dollars for this skinny thing? What'd they print it on,
> handmade papyrus?")
Prices that high are usually a sign of a small print run. When they only
print a few books, each book has to cover more of the production costs. When
that's the case, the publishers can be stuck, too. {small smile}
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin >> Stay informed about: School's out for the summer! |
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Since: Apr 18, 2008
Posts: 71
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(Msg. 51) Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:57 pm
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"Aaron" <kemtek.1.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:DVl3k.276$ul.263@trndny08...
>>> That is on my 'to see' list. We do not go to the movies often, we tend
>>> to watch them on the boobtube or buy them as DVD. A lot of movies are
>>> released for private viewing so much sooner these days, often within
>>> months, if not sooner.
>>
>> You and me both.
>>
>> In addition, movie theaters seem to be a lot more irritating these days.
>> Playing ads in all corners (on TVs up on the wall), and on the screen
>> before the film, and serving lousy candy... I can enjoy a movie in
>> peace, quiet, and with the Good Candy, at home.
>
> The closest big multiplex does not allow you to bring in your own
> munchies, they make more on munchies that tickets,
I'm afraid that's normal, these days. Most movie theaters make more off
concessions than tickets, even when the tickets are high enough that folks
complain. {half-smile}
> which sucks since they have ZERO sugar free munchies; the little single
> screen movie house (which is 3 blocks away) I'm not sure about. They are
> both owned by the same family, who also own the concession company for the
> general area, but the little theater in town shows one movie per week at
> 7PM nightly, charges 3 dollars admission, and has cheap, fresh and tasty
> popcorn. The shows are usually the same ones they showed at the multiplex,
> only after they have made their run in the big house. Now playing I
> believe is "Baby Momma", "Iron Man" was last week.
That sounds like a more pleasant place if it isn't hard to get in.
Unfortunately, the bargain cinema here is on the third floor. My balance
doesn't like the elevator, and thinks the spiral staircase is even worse.
{half-smile}
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin >> Stay informed about: School's out for the summer! |
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Since: Apr 18, 2008
Posts: 71
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(Msg. 52) Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:07 pm
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"Tristaan" <tristaanus.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7kqs449oiusrv859kq37uvaq86ka1r0d2t@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:46:56 -0700,
> m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage] stomped through my brain with:
>
>> "They will know we are Christians by our love" Is it
>>> loving to try and force feed something that they don't want? Or
>>> is it better to show by example and by action that I DO believe
>>> what I say I believe and, by doing so, open the door for people
>>> to ask "What makes you different?"
>>
>>That's also simply a more practical way to do it. Knocking on
>>someone's door (how do they *know* when I'm in the bathroom?) is
>>just not going to get many converts. And will tick off about a
>>billion people for every one convert.
>
> Heh... if you read the book of Acts and the epistles of Paul,
> you'll find that most of the opportunities for the apostles to
> evangelize were not due to specific efforts to spread the gospel,
> but by working directly with people, meeting their needs, showing
> the love of God through the Spirit, and answering their questions
> truthfully and honestly to the best of their ability.
>
> There were occasions for "preaching" but those were in specific
> environments. These Jewish fishermen would travel to a city in
> Asia Minor and visit their local synagogue. While there, they
> would engage in scholarly discussion and conversation concerning
> the Messiah.
>
> Honestly, who's going to listen to me telling them how to live
> their life when they don't know me from Adam? Who am I to tell
> them what they are doing wrong (or right) when I don't even know
> WHO they are and what their life situation is? It's better to
> involve myself in their lives in some way, build the relationship
> and then, through that relationship show the love of God.
>
> Does this mean that I think there is more than one way to live?
> No. I firmly believe (and I know y'all don't agree with me) that
> The Way is the ONLY way.
I can't agree with you fully on this. However, I respect the way you feel
about this. I also feel greatly relieved to know you respect the way I feel,
too. That makes a world of difference. {WARM SMILE}
> BUT...I'm not going to stop relating to
> people just because they disagree with me. Instead, I'm going to
> do my best, with God's help, to live my life according to the
> Way, praying that through my example people will see that Truth
> and come to know Him as I do.
>
> Flame me, burn me at the stake, whatever... it's what I believe.
>
I won't. I don't do that even with the acquaintance who all too often
lectures at length on exactly what everyone else is doing wrong.
{half-smile}
> Tristaan
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin >> Stay informed about: School's out for the summer! |
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Since: Nov 29, 2005
Posts: 81
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(Msg. 53) Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:17 pm
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On 6/9/2008 6:05 PM, m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage] wrote:
> victoreia wrote:
>> On 6/9/2008 9:46 AM, m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage] wrote:
>>
>>> Tristaan wrote:
>>
>> [snip of religious discussion]
>>
>>> That's also simply a more practical way to do it. Knocking on
>>> someone's door (how do they *know* when I'm in the bathroom?) is just
>>> not going to get many converts. And will tick off about a billion
>>> people for every one convert.
>> Like the idio....um, gentleman who was "looking" for a sick kid who
>> supposedly used to live in my apartment, started to go on about how
>> Jesus loves me, and "is that a Star of David on your necklace?"
>>
>> (You would think any good Christian theologian would recognize the
>> difference between a six-point Star of David and a five-point pentagram!)
>
> Well, unless your necklace is very large, it might appear as just a
> shiny thing with more-than-a-triangle points. Especially to someone
> standing more than a couple feet away, trying to be polite by Not
> Staring at your chest.
Nice big medallion style-circle (maybe two inches across), pentagram
quite clearly visible from the foot and a half where he was standing.
And the chain isn't very long, so it wasn't, um, "emphasizing" my chest.
> (He wasn't trying to pester some sick kid, right? I mean, sick kids
> should be left to... get well, hopefully. Play video games and watch
> Disney movies for hours on end.)
I really don't think there actually _was_ a sick kid. I think he was
making an excuse to be knocking on the new folks' door. (In clear
violation of the "No Soliciting" sign prominently displayed in various
locations on the property, no less.)
--
victoreia (Okay, I'll get off my "Leave my soul alone!" soapbox now........)
Goddess of Dark Chocolate >> Stay informed about: School's out for the summer! |
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Since: Dec 05, 2006
Posts: 85
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(Msg. 54) Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:28 pm
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In article <t2ot44tfbjd5rfcd7gg5br8iam1lnrl03u.RemoveThis@4ax.com>,
Tristaan <tristaanus.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>
> hehe... I got under the skin of some JW's the other day... They
> came knocking on my door and started talking about Moses and
> quoting Deuteronomy at me... I said, "Hang on a sec" went in, got
> my bible, and checked their context. I then proceeded to show
> them how they were taking one verse out of context of the passage
> and described to them what the intention of the writer appeared
> to be and how it related to the rest of Scripture... after about
> 5 minutes, they kinda glazed over, said thank you, and quickly
> walked off... I saw, as they went, the "leader" pull out a
> little notebook and make a hurried notation...
>
> ...haven't had JW's knock on my door since...
LOL! Tristaan, I'll second what Purrt said about you. If everyone who
called themselves a Christian were as gentlemanly about it as you are,
the word "Christian" wouldn't have the negative connotation it's
acquired in many circles.
Edna
---|)--- Edna Huelsenbeck (huelsenbeck@gmailDOTcom) ------------
---|---- Goddess of the ABML Out-of-Practice-Musicians Band -----
--/|---- Member, Brute Squad, Mommy Division --------------------
-| |')-- Provisional Member of the Sisterhood of Mess -----------
--\|/----Official Bard of the Book and Bridle -------------------
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Since: Dec 05, 2006
Posts: 85
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(Msg. 55) Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:29 pm
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In article <0YydnaMg-b-HntLVnZ2dnUVZ_rzinZ2d.DeleteThis@earthlink.com>,
"m_thomas[numBksInLastHrldMage]"
<snip>
>
> If I read the Bible, I'll read the whole thing. Just don't hold
> your breath. I started, a decade ago, got about 80 pages in, and
> my enthusiasm petered out. (No, really, 2,000 years of editing
> and no one trimmed out those interminable 'begats'?)
>
> As soon as I've finished all the other good books on my "To Read"
> list. Haven't finished the complete works of Shakespeare yet.
> And I've been half-way through my book of Greatest World Poems
> for the past six months.
I think I got about as far as you did in the Bible. (Once upon a time,
when I actually had time to read.) Maybe when my kids leave for college
and I retire
Edna
---|)--- Edna Huelsenbeck (huelsenbeck@gmailDOTcom) ------------
---|---- Goddess of the ABML Out-of-Practice-Musicians Band -----
--/|---- Member, Brute Squad, Mommy Division --------------------
-| |')-- Provisional Member of the Sisterhood of Mess -----------
--\|/----Official Bard of the Book and Bridle -------------------
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Since: Nov 29, 2005
Posts: 81
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(Msg. 56) Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:59 pm
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On 6/10/2008 1:50 AM, Tristaan wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:29:18 -1000, victoreia stomped through my
> brain with:
>
>> On 6/9/2008 4:43 AM, Tristaan wrote:
>> [huge snip!]
>>
>>> One thing to keep in mind is that Narnia is written as children's
>>> books. You can't expect heavily in depth Christian theming in
>>> books for kids... they wouldn't get it. So, it deals more with
>>> basics and simple concepts while hinting at some of the deeper
>>> things (consider the "good" Tash worshiper in the book "The Last
>>> Battle").
>> And won't _that_ one be interesting to watch!
>
> Actually, I'm looking forward to it. That's probably one of
> the most interesting books of the entire series, IMO.
>
I'll be interested in the whole "Tashlan" explanation that Shift gives
in front of the shed...... (Oh, my poor head!)
My oldest nephew got the whole set for his birthday and Christmas; he
keeps bugging my sister to talk about the books, but she wasn't the avid
fan I was! (Note to self: call Bryce to discuss "Caspian".......)
--
victoreia
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(Msg. 57) Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:45 pm
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> For the movies, that sense of pity and regret is there mixed with
> a sense of anger as we see Smeagol being mistreated by Faramir
> and his men. In the books, Gollum's sense of betrayal was
> understood... and given time, you almost think that Frodo and Sam
> could have over come it. Faramir's men, with their beating and
> kicking of Gollum in the movie, pretty much slammed the door at
> any continuing possibility of redemption for Gollum. Not only
> was Gollum betrayed, but he was betrayed into the hands of men
> who, for the most part, didn't treat him a whole lot better than
> the tormentors in Barad-dur.
>
> Tristaan
Don't get me started on what Jackson & Co. did to Faramir. They redeemed
themselves a teeny bit in the extended version, but still.
The Bookwurm (#1 Faramir Fan)
----
Goddess of Libraries
Pedant in Chief
Keeper of the BotRoM
Sister Hand Grenade of Sweet Reason
Believer, Church of the Cosmic Muffin
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(Msg. 58) Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:45 pm
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"Rhino7" <laney2 RemoveThis @comfishcast.net> wrote in message
news:q6SdnZx2bf3f19LVnZ2dnUVZ_rjinZ2d@comcast.com...
>> For the movies, that sense of pity and regret is there mixed with
>> a sense of anger as we see Smeagol being mistreated by Faramir
>> and his men. In the books, Gollum's sense of betrayal was
>> understood... and given time, you almost think that Frodo and Sam
>> could have over come it. Faramir's men, with their beating and
>> kicking of Gollum in the movie, pretty much slammed the door at
>> any continuing possibility of redemption for Gollum. Not only
>> was Gollum betrayed, but he was betrayed into the hands of men
>> who, for the most part, didn't treat him a whole lot better than
>> the tormentors in Barad-dur.
>>
>> Tristaan
>
> Don't get me started on what Jackson & Co. did to Faramir. They redeemed
> themselves a teeny bit in the extended version, but still.
>
> The Bookwurm (#1 Faramir Fan)
That annoyed Dad and me, too. We feel Tolkien had a good point to make by
doing what he did with Faramir in the book. {Smile, SMILE}
Anne Elizabeth Baldwin >> Stay informed about: School's out for the summer! |
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External
Since: Mar 16, 2008
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 59) Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:47 pm
Post subject: Re: School's out for the summer! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> Final film for the class? Field trip to a local theatre to see
> Harrison Ford crack his whip again as Indiana Jones..
>
> Tristaan
oh boy ... Indiana Jones and the Social Security Check of Doom
The Bookwurm
----
Goddess of Libraries
Pedant in Chief
Keeper of the BotRoM
Sister Hand Grenade of Sweet Reason
Believer, Church of the Cosmic Muffin
<spam trap: remove fish from address> >> Stay informed about: School's out for the summer! |
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External
Since: Mar 16, 2008
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 60) Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:00 pm
Post subject: Re: School's out for the summer! [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> I'm going to go around and hand out tracts and never come back to
> you ever again except to preach at you and give you another
> tract... Yeah.. that will go over REAL well, won't it.
> Tristaan
I think, off hand, that the chances of someone actually converting on the
spot after being accosted by these people is right up there with ... oh ...
maybe winning the Powerball lottery prize? Maybe if you are an undecided
teenager, but to expect an adult to toss out whatever their philosophy is
based on a tri-fold pamphlet handed out by a stranger? Somehow "boggle"
just doesn't capture it for me.
The Bookwurm
----
Goddess of Libraries
Pedant in Chief
Keeper of the BotRoM
Sister Hand Grenade of Sweet Reason
Believer, Church of the Cosmic Muffin
<spam trap: remove fish from address> >> Stay informed about: School's out for the summer! |
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