Secondary Mutations

In article <860dd285.0403030822.79f0e08e DeleteThis @posting.google.com>, tuna22 DeleteThis @aol.com (Bryan Mack) wrote:
 >I've always thought the "secondary mutations" idea weas kind of dumb,
 >but was wondering who all has been revealed to have these so far. This
 >is about as many as I can remember. Anyone else recall any more?

I'll agree with you in that I think it's a stupid idea. Developing existing
powers is one thing, but handwaving that creates totally new unrelated powers
is dumb IMHO.

Of course, I haven't really liked the X-men in a long time. I was a pretty
solid reader up until uncanny issue number 210 or so, then stopped shortly
after with a brief spurt back when they had the blue/gold teams but that only
lasted a year or two tops, then after that, I only picked up the odd issue
every couple years. Of course, in those days I think the biggest problem was
that they kept changing writers ever two issues and every writer wanted to
undo what the previous writer did, which made things a mess. I blame a
complete lack of editorial control.

Of course, along came morrison and austen, which is even worse. I'm not a fan
of either and I haven't bought even a single issue since the reboot or
whatever it was called. My only enjoyment these days for x-men is in the
ultimate universe.

 >White Queen - Diamond form
 >Beast - Cat-like appearence
 >Iceman - The ability to be decapitated and still live (at least
 >according to Austen)
 >Angel - Healing blood
 >
 >Any others?

Like I said, I haven't bought any and can hardly stand to occasionally leaf
through them, but I can't think of any. But what about beast? Would that be
a secondary or tertiary (spelling) mutation? After all, he was originally
fairly human looking with large feet and hands and sometimes a little apelike,
but then he mutated into the blue furry Hank I grew to know and love in the
avengers. This would be the third mutation for hank. I wonder if it would
have occured if he hadn't drank the mutation potion back in the day? If so,
and his secondary mutation would have made him catlike, what would he have
looked like if he hadn't been blue and furry?

-John Bilow
my email address is fake. Instead, you can contact me by replacing the word "boy" with my last name.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Bryan Mack" <tuna22.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote:
 > Any others?

Yes. But they came way before New X-Men.
Danielle Moonstar's powers changed during the 80's. At first her powers were
to create holograms-like manifestations of her opponent's worst fears. After
the Evolutionary War, her powers mutated and she was able to create material
manifestations.
And I suppose that's Nightcrawler's shadow related powers are a secondary
mutation. I don't see how a guy could reach an adult age without noticing
that he "disappear" when he's in shadows.
Aurora's powers mutated during Byrne's alpha flight run, too...
Karma's kid brother and sister displayed different sets of powers (see New
Mutants Annual 2 and the Beast mini).

Reivax<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Reivax" <reivaxNOSPAM RemoveThis @online.fr> wrote in message
news:40461774$0$2631$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr...
 > "Bryan Mack" <tuna22 RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote:
  > > Any others?
 >
 > Yes. But they came way before New X-Men.

Hate to burst your bubble on these but;

 > Danielle Moonstar's powers changed during the 80's. At first her powers
were
 > to create holograms-like manifestations of her opponent's worst fears.
After
 > the Evolutionary War, her powers mutated and she was able to create
material
 > manifestations.

That wasn't a mutation of her power, that was her existing powers natural
progression. She was able to create solid images during the Brood story in
the very first episodes of New Mutants, and Xavier told her it was what her
power would eventually become. I wasn't keen on the way it developed in the
Evolutionary annual (Too convenient and annoying) but it wasn't new.

 > And I suppose that's Nightcrawler's shadow related powers are a secondary
 > mutation. I don't see how a guy could reach an adult age without noticing
 > that he "disappear" when he's in shadows.

His awareness of that power comes and goes regularly, depending on the
writer. He knew he was hard to see in shadow, but the power intensified
shortly after joining the X-Men, then faded, depending on the creative team.
It was Alan Davis in Excalibur who first defined it as a natural part of his
existing teleportation, his body is constantly interfaced with the dimension
he travels through, so light falling on him doesn't always react the way it
would under normal conditions.

 > Aurora's powers mutated during Byrne's alpha flight run, too...

Her genetic structure was deliberately altered by Walter Langowski in a way
_he_ controlled, I'm not sure that quite counts as a secondary mutation as
it was never a natural progression of her genetic structure, which secondary
mutations are said to be.

 > Karma's kid brother and sister displayed different sets of powers (see New
 > Mutants Annual 2 and the Beast mini).

Both times they got powers it was because of Spiral's magic, so neither
might be their real power, if they actually have any. Certainly they are
back to being kids again, mercifully.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations 

"Bryan Mack" <tuna22.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:860dd285.0403030822.79f0e08e@posting.google.com...
 > I've always thought the "secondary mutations" idea weas kind of dumb,
 > but was wondering who all has been revealed to have these so far. This
 > is about as many as I can remember. Anyone else recall any more?
 >
 > Iceman - The ability to be decapitated and still live (at least
 > according to Austen)

Actually, i think that was just him achieving his potential. if you remember
in age of apocolipse, he would be shattered and could reform, at the cost of
his mental health.... I think his secondary mutation was him permenatly
turning into ice...... any one else remember this?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations 

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:40:21 -0000,"Brian Doyle"
<No_spam.DeleteThis@freeserve.co.uk> wrote

  >> Karma's kid brother and sister displayed different sets of powers (see New
  >> Mutants Annual 2 and the Beast mini).
 >
 >Both times they got powers it was because of Spiral's magic, so neither
 >might be their real power, if they actually have any. Certainly they are
 >back to being kids again, mercifully.

We know what the kids powers are
To turn invisible.
Honestly- have they even been seen or mentioned in NM since Shan
joined the staff?

Christian
--
"The Dark Phoenix may have been a threat to all life in the universe...
But she had great taste in costumes." (Rachel Summers Excalibur #65)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Christian Smith wrote:
   >>> Karma's kid brother and sister displayed different sets of powers (see New
   >>> Mutants Annual 2 and the Beast mini).
  >>
  >> Both times they got powers it was because of Spiral's magic, so neither
  >> might be their real power, if they actually have any. Certainly they are
  >> back to being kids again, mercifully.
 >
 > We know what the kids powers are
 > To turn invisible.
 > Honestly- have they even been seen or mentioned in NM since Shan
 > joined the staff?

Considering the book isn't about them or anyone in Mirage's family, why is it
an issue?

-=[ The BlakGard ]=-
"Somewhere there's danger;
somewhere there's injustice,
and somewhere else the tea is getting cold!"<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations 

"BlakGard" <blakgard DeleteThis @aol.comix.net> wrote in message
news:20040303185905.08803.00000914@mb-m13.aol.com...
 > Christian Smith wrote:
   > >>> Karma's kid brother and sister displayed different sets of powers (see
New
   > >>> Mutants Annual 2 and the Beast mini).
   > >>
   > >> Both times they got powers it was because of Spiral's magic, so neither
   > >> might be their real power, if they actually have any. Certainly they
are
   > >> back to being kids again, mercifully.
  > >
  > > We know what the kids powers are
  > > To turn invisible.
  > > Honestly- have they even been seen or mentioned in NM since Shan
  > > joined the staff?
 >
 > Considering the book isn't about them or anyone in Mirage's family, why is
it
 > an issue?

Because they are a major part (or should be) of Shan's life. She is their de
facto parent, who is repsonsible for their upbringing, making her pretty
much unique in the X-verse. It seems silly to ignore them completely.

I agree they don't NEED to be there but, using the Buffy comaprison again,
we managed well without _seeing_ most of the Scoobies parents regularly, but
they were referenced all the time, so we'd remember they were there and were
influencing them.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations 

"Reivax" <reivaxNOSPAM DeleteThis @online.fr> wrote in message
news:40461774$0$2631$afc38c87@news.easynet.fr...
 > "Bryan Mack" <tuna22 DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote:
  > > Any others?
 >
 > Yes. But they came way before New X-Men.
 > Danielle Moonstar's powers changed during the 80's. At first her powers
were
 > to create holograms-like manifestations of her opponent's worst fears.
After
 > the Evolutionary War, her powers mutated and she was able to create
material
 > manifestations.
 > And I suppose that's Nightcrawler's shadow related powers are a secondary
 > mutation. I don't see how a guy could reach an adult age without noticing
 > that he "disappear" when he's in shadows.
 > Aurora's powers mutated during Byrne's alpha flight run, too...
 > Karma's kid brother and sister displayed different sets of powers (see New
 > Mutants Annual 2 and the Beast mini).
 >
 > Reivax
 >
 >

Mirage and Aurora's change came from machines that resulted in their powers
mutating, so I'm not sure if they count as "secondary mutations" in the way
that Angel and Emma's second mutation. Also, Mirage's "ultimate level" was
to make her holograms solid...as shown in one of the early New Mutants
books. Karma's siblings have been powered and depowered by both scientific
and magical means...and the current NM book has put the question if they are
mutants at all. Nightcrawler had the "blending in shadows" power early on
and it was dropped, then brought back again, but that was before secondary
mutations appeared. Mystique's change in power can be explained by X-Men
Forever, if we really want to rationalize why she can do things now that she
couldn't do before.

Patrick<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations 

"Bryan Mack" <tuna22.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:860dd285.0403030822.79f0e08e@posting.google.com
 > I've always thought the "secondary mutations" idea weas kind of dumb,
 > but was wondering who all has been revealed to have these so far. This
 > is about as many as I can remember. Anyone else recall any more?
 >
 > White Queen - Diamond form
 > Beast - Cat-like appearence
 > Iceman - The ability to be decapitated and still live (at least
 > according to Austen)

As far as Iceman goes, his powers have been evolving since his first
appearance. IIRC, first he could only cover himself in ice, then he gained
the ability to change completely in to ice etc. So I suppose his ability to
reform himself using any available water makes a reasonable amount of
sense.

Alex<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations 

"Christian Smith" <christian.DeleteThis@jasdigital.com> wrote in message
news:99lc40t6r1ch9somucanqggvf5rbagosgu@4ax.com...
 > On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:40:21 -0000,"Brian Doyle"
 > <No_spam.DeleteThis@freeserve.co.uk> wrote
 >
   > >> Karma's kid brother and sister displayed different sets of powers (see
New
   > >> Mutants Annual 2 and the Beast mini).
  > >
  > >Both times they got powers it was because of Spiral's magic, so neither
  > >might be their real power, if they actually have any. Certainly they are
  > >back to being kids again, mercifully.
 >
 > We know what the kids powers are
 > To turn invisible.

But somehow still get kidnapped.

 > Honestly- have they even been seen or mentioned in NM since Shan
 > joined the staff?
 >
 > Christian

I don't think that's really a problem if you consider the pace of the book
and the intent of focusing on the mutant kids. Just knowing that the twins
are around and safe is a lot better than not knowing where they are and why
Shan never seems take care of them. I'm sure they will show up again
whenever there is a Shan-centered story. Kitty moving back to the mansion
should generate a story or two with them.

Patrick<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Patrick McClue" <mcclue RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c25uq9$1pk6gb$1@ID-183337.news.uni-berlin.de...

  > > We know what the kids powers are
  > > To turn invisible.
 >
 > But somehow still get kidnapped.

A power they share with the old "Robin the Boy Hostage"

 > I don't think that's really a problem if you consider the pace of the book
 > and the intent of focusing on the mutant kids. Just knowing that the
twins
 > are around and safe is a lot better than not knowing where they are and
why
 > Shan never seems take care of them.

Have to agree there.

 > I'm sure they will show up again
 > whenever there is a Shan-centered story. Kitty moving back to the mansion
 > should generate a story or two with them.

It'd be interesting to see the Leong and Nga interact with the mutant kids.

Would they be accepting because it's nothing new, jealous because they don't
have active powers (or maybe latent powers) , or even fearful, since being
related to a mutant has caused them more trouble than anything else in their
lives (Even their uncle being a crimelord) and aren't mature enough to
differentiate between the crap that's gone down for one reason and another..
Just ask Auntie Ilyanna, or Uncle Doug about how safe it is hanging around
Xaviers... <!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Alex Peckover" <alex.RemoveThis@SPAMOFF.uklinux.net> schreef in bericht
news:c26nop$1oc13k$1@ID-32143.news.uni-berlin.de...
 > "Bryan Mack" <tuna22.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
 > news:860dd285.0403030822.79f0e08e@posting.google.com
  > > I've always thought the "secondary mutations" idea weas kind of dumb,
  > > but was wondering who all has been revealed to have these so far. This
  > > is about as many as I can remember. Anyone else recall any more?
  > >
  > > White Queen - Diamond form
  > > Beast - Cat-like appearence
  > > Iceman - The ability to be decapitated and still live (at least
  > > according to Austen)
 >
And what about Toad? With his stretching tongue, green skin, etc. I know a
part of these mutations is explained in X-Men Forever, but I think they're
some sort of secondary mutation.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations 

Brian Doyle wrote:
   >>>>> Karma's kid brother and sister displayed different sets of powers (see
   >>>>> New Mutants Annual 2 and the Beast mini).
   >>>>
   >>>> Both times they got powers it was because of Spiral's magic, so neither
   >>>> might be their real power, if they actually have any. Certainly they
   >>>> are back to being kids again, mercifully.
   >>>
   >>> We know what the kids powers are
   >>> To turn invisible.
   >>> Honestly- have they even been seen or mentioned in NM since Shan
   >>> joined the staff?
  >>
  >> Considering the book isn't about them or anyone in [Xi'an's] family, why is
  >> it an issue?
 >
 > Because they are a major part (or should be) of Shan's life. She is their de
 > facto parent, who is repsonsible for their upbringing, making her pretty
 > much unique in the X-verse. It seems silly to ignore them completely.
 >
 > I agree they don't NEED to be there but, using the Buffy comaprison again,
 > we managed well without _seeing_ most of the Scoobies parents regularly, but
 > they were referenced all the time, so we'd remember they were there and were
 > influencing them.

If by "regularly" you mean once or twice a season, then I see your point. By
comparison, we should see a mention of Xi'an's brother and sister once or twice
every 20-odd issues, and we've already seen more than that so far. Works for
me.

-=[ The BlakGard ]=-
"Somewhere there's danger;
somewhere there's injustice,
and somewhere else the tea is getting cold!"<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations