Secondary Mutations

tuna22.RemoveThis@aol.com (Bryan Mack) wrote in
news:860dd285.0403050620.a5d45b5@posting.google.com:

 > The only problem I see with this is when he changes to human form
 > again. His entire body is eradicated. This includes all internal
 > organs. Heart, lungs, kidneys, liver, etc. So he can form a new body
 > out of water? Can he form all of his internal organs out of water? And
 > place them in the exact locations they need to be? And they function
 > correctly? I know it is a comic book and you have to bend a bit....
 > but this seems a bit too unbelieveable to me.

It's not exactly new. Take, for example, Charcoal from the
Thunderbolts. His body gets blasted to bits and reforms, completely
intact. Same thing with Wonder Man - he's been completely reduced to
ionic energy that was spread at least throughout Los Angeles. Yet, he's
configured properly at the moment.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations 

gls3609479 DeleteThis @yahoo.com (Glenn Simpson) wrote in
news:1287ea8f.0403051222.414b55bd@posting.google.com:

 > My pseudo-scientific B.S. explanation:
 >
 > Upon activating his powers, Iceman's body is shunted into that
 > dimention where the Wasp's mass goes when she shrinks.

It might be a similar place, but not the same place. That dimension is
directly related to the Pym Particles, which has nothing to do with
Iceman's powers.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Dan McEwen" <dannyboymcny DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c2bkr5$1qoqp4$5@ID-177615.news.uni-berlin.de...
 > gls3609479 DeleteThis @yahoo.com (Glenn Simpson) wrote in
 > news:1287ea8f.0403051222.414b55bd@posting.google.com:
 >
  > > My pseudo-scientific B.S. explanation:
  > >
  > > Upon activating his powers, Iceman's body is shunted into that
  > > dimention where the Wasp's mass goes when she shrinks.
 >
 > It might be a similar place, but not the same place. That dimension is
 > directly related to the Pym Particles, which has nothing to do with
 > Iceman's powers.

Anyway, it doesn't work. Can't he partially ice up? Like having an ice hand,
but not the rest of his body? That would mean he'd be partially in and
partially out of another dimensino.

D.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Lia Brown" <rook1.TakeThisOut@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:40496705.1032724@news1.on.sympatico.ca...
> On 6 Mar 2004 04:36:45 GMT, Dan McEwen <dannyboymcny.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >rook1@sympatico.ca (Lia Brown) wrote in
> >news:40484190.13096852@news1.on.sympatico.ca:
> >
> >> On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:28:34 +0900, "Patrick McClue"
> >> <mcclue.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Yeah, I know, I was just responding to the part about the experiments.
> But haven't some of the secondary mutations been artificial? Didn't
> Beast's come from Sage jump-starting him?

Beast is a weird case, since him having a furry form in the first place is
the result of biochemical experiements he performed on himself.

Mutationally speaking Hank's a MESS! Natural mutation, chemical
augmentation, Sage jumpstarting him... all we need now is to find out he's a
cyborg shaman too and the whole thing is covered!
 >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations 

Sorted magAZine wrote:
   >>> My pseudo-scientific B.S. explanation:
   >>>
   >>> Upon activating his powers, Iceman's body is shunted into that
   >>> dimention where the Wasp's mass goes when she shrinks.
  >>
  >> It might be a similar place, but not the same place. That dimension is
  >> directly related to the Pym Particles, which has nothing to do with
  >> Iceman's powers.

There's really no reason why Bobby's powers can't have something to do
with Pym Particles.

 > Anyway, it doesn't work. Can't he partially ice up? Like having an ice hand,
 > but not the rest of his body? That would mean he'd be partially in and
 > partially out of another dimensino.

The theory that I think works best is that Bobby is, in fact, an energy being
that can transmute matter on an atomic scale. He doesn't really need a
human body at all.

There really isn't a real-life scientific way to explain any of the superheroes
that transmute their bodies into another substance, obviously. So it's
probably best not to give him (or Colossus, Sandman, Nitro, and a slew of
other characters) a scientific explanation. In truth, just about any theory
can work in a superhero universe.

-=[ The BlakGard ]=-
"Somewhere there's danger;
somewhere there's injustice,
and somewhere else the tea is getting cold!"<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations 

blakgard RemoveThis @aol.comix.net (BlakGard) wrote in
news:20040306160854.24987.00001000@mb-m26.aol.com:

 > Sorted magAZine wrote:
   >>>> My pseudo-scientific B.S. explanation:
   >>>>
   >>>> Upon activating his powers, Iceman's body is shunted into that
   >>>> dimention where the Wasp's mass goes when she shrinks.
   >>>
   >>> It might be a similar place, but not the same place. That dimension
   >>> is directly related to the Pym Particles, which has nothing to do
   >>> with Iceman's powers.
 >
 > There's really no reason why Bobby's powers can't have something to do
 > with Pym Particles.

I guess, but isn't that needlessly tacking on something additional?
Once we go that route, you know someone's going to have him shrinking
and going giant.

  >> Anyway, it doesn't work. Can't he partially ice up? Like having an
  >> ice hand, but not the rest of his body? That would mean he'd be
  >> partially in and partially out of another dimensino.
 >
 > The theory that I think works best is that Bobby is, in fact, an
 > energy being that can transmute matter on an atomic scale. He doesn't
 > really need a human body at all.

I agree. Something like this works better than many other ideas when
you use it in conjunction with him being an "Omega level" mutant.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations 

Dan McEwen wrote:
   >>>>> My pseudo-scientific B.S. explanation:
   >>>>>
   >>>>> Upon activating his powers, Iceman's body is shunted into that
   >>>>> dimention where the Wasp's mass goes when she shrinks.
   >>>>
   >>>> It might be a similar place, but not the same place. That dimension
   >>>> is directly related to the Pym Particles, which has nothing to do
   >>>> with Iceman's powers.
  >>
  >> There's really no reason why Bobby's powers can't have something to do
  >> with Pym Particles.
 >
 > I guess, but isn't that needlessly tacking on something additional?
 > Once we go that route, you know someone's going to have him shrinking
 > and going giant.

Agreed, but then the question arises: What's the difference between Ant-Man
or Wasp adding mass to become giant and the Hulk, Colossus, etc. adding
mass to become larger? It seems to me that the difference is only in the use
of the power.

-=[ The BlakGard ]=-
"Somewhere there's danger;
somewhere there's injustice,
and somewhere else the tea is getting cold!"<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations 

Other secondary mutations include warpath: He's had two actually, supersenses
and flight.
Sunspot, depending on how unrelated you require a secondary condition to be:
He's learned how to fly and project energy blasts after all.
Changeling, developed telekinesis when Prof X loaned him telepathy.
Prof X himself seems to have latent telekinesis, since his genetically
identical "twin sister" has telekinesis as well.
Bishop has learned how to channel energy into physical strength, again might
not count depending on where one draws the line.
Scarlet Witch's powers have changed from mere probability manipulation to
magic channeling, but may be seen as a maturation of her powers instead of a
secondary mutation.
And Mirage's powers have changed three times, albeit initiated by outside
forces each time, she certainly has a tendency in that direction.
While activated first by a telepathic skrull, and then by Sage, Rogue has
demonstrated shapeshifting to channel the superpowers of those she's absorbed
in the past.
Gambit's ultimate potential is worth mentioning, but doesn't count since his
powers were artificially reduced to the usual levels.
 >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations 

"BlakGard" <blakgard DeleteThis @aol.comix.net> wrote in message
news:20040307055240.28329.00001018@mb-m29.aol.com...
 > Dan McEwen wrote:
   > >>>>> My pseudo-scientific B.S. explanation:
   > >>>>>
   > >>>>> Upon activating his powers, Iceman's body is shunted into that
   > >>>>> dimention where the Wasp's mass goes when she shrinks.
   > >>>>
   > >>>> It might be a similar place, but not the same place. That dimension
   > >>>> is directly related to the Pym Particles, which has nothing to do
   > >>>> with Iceman's powers.
   > >>
   > >> There's really no reason why Bobby's powers can't have something to do
   > >> with Pym Particles.
  > >
  > > I guess, but isn't that needlessly tacking on something additional?
  > > Once we go that route, you know someone's going to have him shrinking
  > > and going giant.
 >
 > Agreed, but then the question arises: What's the difference between Ant-Man
 > or Wasp adding mass to become giant and the Hulk, Colossus, etc. adding
 > mass to become larger? It seems to me that the difference is only in the use
 > of the power.
 >
In the case of the Hulk, it seems more like a temporary cancerous growth than
added bulk in the orderly way of Giant Man. Colossus was presumably more like
Iceman - the extra mass is simply the change in material.

D.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"AJSolis" <ajsolis DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040307055459.29724.00001091@mb-m21.aol.com...
 > Sunspot, depending on how unrelated you require a secondary condition to
be:
 > He's learned how to fly and project energy blasts after all.

He got that after having his powers supercharged by Gideon didn't he? It
took a homicidal maniac to actually risk doing it to him, but I think that
was part of his existing solar energy metabolising power.

 > Changeling, developed telekinesis when Prof X loaned him telepathy.

His profile in OHOTMU says he had latent telekinetic powers.

 > Prof X himself seems to have latent telekinesis, since his genetically
 > identical "twin sister" has telekinesis as well.

She seems to have all sorts of powers he never did, like walking through
walls healing etc. Xavier was her basic template but she coule reprogram
herself with others (Like taking on Trasks genetic ID)

 > Scarlet Witch's powers have changed from mere probability manipulation
to
 > magic channeling, but may be seen as a maturation of her powers instead of
a
 > secondary mutation.

Precisely. Her natural mutant power would have been energy manipualtion like
her father, but because of the circumstances of her birth, her power was
always manipulation of magical chaos energy. In the simplest form this was
her hex sphere or "Chaos hand grenades", barely controlled bursts of
unlikely events. She's now learning to do far more with her powers, but it's
not a secondary mutation.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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blakgard.TakeThisOut@aol.comix.net (BlakGard) wrote in message news:<20040307055240.28329.00001018.TakeThisOut@mb-m29.aol.com>...
 > Dan McEwen wrote:
   > >>>>> My pseudo-scientific B.S. explanation:
   > >>>>>
   > >>>>> Upon activating his powers, Iceman's body is shunted into that
   > >>>>> dimention where the Wasp's mass goes when she shrinks.
   > >>>>
   > >>>> It might be a similar place, but not the same place. That dimension
   > >>>> is directly related to the Pym Particles, which has nothing to do
   > >>>> with Iceman's powers.
   > >>
   > >> There's really no reason why Bobby's powers can't have something to do
   > >> with Pym Particles.
  > >
  > > I guess, but isn't that needlessly tacking on something additional?
  > > Once we go that route, you know someone's going to have him shrinking
  > > and going giant.
 >
 > Agreed, but then the question arises: What's the difference between Ant-Man
 > or Wasp adding mass to become giant and the Hulk, Colossus, etc. adding
 > mass to become larger? It seems to me that the difference is only in the use
 > of the power.

That is the only difference. No reason why there should be more of a difference.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations 

"Sorted magAZine" <editor.RemoveThis@NOSPAMsortedmagazine.com> writes:

 > In the case of the Hulk, it seems more like a temporary cancerous
 > growth than added bulk in the orderly way of Giant Man.

But Hulk adds mass and looses it when turning into Banner. Perhaps
his cells just increase in size and pull enegery or matter out of the
thin air and increase in mass and durabilty, too.

Hmmm... Let's just say that Marvel matter has properties extending in
dimension unknown to man and that these super-people just access these
properties in the real world. i.e. becoming harder, colder or burning
would just be extension of the same physical effect.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Dan McEwen <dannyboymcny RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c2e0v3$1reqqo$8@ID-177615.news.uni-berlin.de...
 > blakgard RemoveThis @aol.comix.net (BlakGard) wrote in
 > news:20040306160854.24987.00001000@mb-m26.aol.com:
 >
  > > Sorted magAZine wrote:
   > >>>> My pseudo-scientific B.S. explanation:
   > >>>>
   > >>>> Upon activating his powers, Iceman's body is shunted into that
   > >>>> dimention where the Wasp's mass goes when she shrinks.
   > >>>
   > >>> It might be a similar place, but not the same place. That dimension
   > >>> is directly related to the Pym Particles, which has nothing to do
   > >>> with Iceman's powers.
  > >
  > > There's really no reason why Bobby's powers can't have something to do
  > > with Pym Particles.
 >
 > I guess, but isn't that needlessly tacking on something additional?
 > Once we go that route, you know someone's going to have him shrinking
 > and going giant.
 >
Of course there's no reason that he can't already do this with his powers as
they're already portrayed.

- Nathan P. Mahney -<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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