 |
|
 |
|
Next: Singer on Ultimate X-Men
|
| Author |
Message |
External

Since: Jul 02, 2004 Posts: 330
|
(Msg. 46) Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 7:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Secondary Mutations [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: rec>arts>comics>marvel>xbooks (more info?)
|
|
|
Nathan P. Mahney wrote:
> Dan McEwen <dannyboymcny.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>I guess, but isn't that needlessly tacking on something additional?
>>Once we go that route, you know someone's going to have him shrinking
>>and going giant.
> Of course there's no reason that he can't already do this with his powers as
> they're already portrayed.
He's bulked up to go icy-Hulk on enemies, but he's never gone smaller. Has he ever sent
out an 'eye' like Reed Richards does, or has all his manipulaitons along the line of handjobs?
--
There is a significant difference between 'dignified and understanding' and 'suffering the
inane fools patiently' concerning the dregs of society.
-till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>>
consul.RemoveThis@INVALIDdolphins-cove.com ((remove the INVALID to email))<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Mar 04, 2004 Posts: 207
|
(Msg. 47) Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:24 am
Post subject: Re: Secondary Mutations [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"AJSolis" <ajsolis DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040307055459.29724.00001091@mb-m21.aol.com...
> Other secondary mutations include warpath: He's had two actually,
supersenses
> and flight.
Weren't the supersenses part of the original Thunderbird's powers? They
were not as strong as
Wolverines, but still above human. Flight? Wasn't that a writer's mistake
in the same way that one writer didn't know that M could fly? If not, then
I guess we can add him to the list of people with secondary mutations.
> Sunspot, depending on how unrelated you require a secondary condition to
be:
> He's learned how to fly and project energy blasts after all.
I'm still curious to know where those powers came from. I wasn't reading
X-Force at the time. Were those changes natural or artificial? Could they
be considered a natural evolution of his powers rather than a 'secondary'
one? Does he need the sun to power-up as before?
> Changeling, developed telekinesis when Prof X loaned him telepathy.
Curious: Has the Prof. ever lent anyone else telepathy? Was Changling a
"latent psi" in order to do that?
> Prof X himself seems to have latent telekinesis, since his genetically
> identical "twin sister" has telekinesis as well.
He has used telekinesis in an early issue of X-Men, but that was later said
to have been an isolated case.
> Bishop has learned how to channel energy into physical strength, again
might
> not count depending on where one draws the line.
> Scarlet Witch's powers have changed from mere probability manipulation
to
> magic channeling, but may be seen as a maturation of her powers instead of
a
> secondary mutation.
I think with the Scarlet Witch, the idea is that she has always been
channeling magic in order to affect probability. The chaotic magic bit is
more of an explanation of her power source, rather than a new power in
itself.
> And Mirage's powers have changed three times, albeit initiated by
outside
> forces each time, she certainly has a tendency in that direction.
As said before, the first few issues of the New Mutants showed that her
ultimate potential is to make her holograms solid. The only new power added
on was her Valkerie-given powers.
> While activated first by a telepathic skrull, and then by Sage, Rogue
has
> demonstrated shapeshifting to channel the superpowers of those she's
absorbed
> in the past.
That could be the full expression of her power if she ever learned to
control it properly. It seems that the Skrull and Sage gave her some
control.
> Gambit's ultimate potential is worth mentioning, but doesn't count
since his
> powers were artificially reduced to the usual levels.
What was Gambit's ultimate potential?
It seems that we have to make a difference between what is a secondary
mutation and a growth of the original mutation/ultimate potential. It seems
that with the confirmed secondary mutations, the new power wasn't related to
the original power (Emma, Black Tom, Angel), but I guess that doesn't always
have to be the case (Beast going from ape-like to cat-like).
Characters who are making steps to their full potential and show new tricks
with the same powers (Iceman, Mirage, Cannonball, and Rogue, for example)
may not necessarily be affected by secondary mutations.
Patrick<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Feb 28, 2004 Posts: 11
|
(Msg. 48) Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:24 am
Post subject: Re: Secondary Mutations [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Patrick McClue" <mcclue DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c2f7q0$1s2n8d$1@ID-183337.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> What was Gambit's ultimate potential?
>
To become the New Sun, literally!
D.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Mar 01, 2004 Posts: 733
|
(Msg. 49) Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:24 am
Post subject: Re: Secondary Mutations [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Patrick McClue" <mcclue.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c2f7q0$1s2n8d$1@ID-183337.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> > Sunspot, depending on how unrelated you require a secondary condition
to be:
> > He's learned how to fly and project energy blasts after all.
>
> I'm still curious to know where those powers came from. I wasn't reading
> X-Force at the time. Were those changes natural or artificial? Could
they
> be considered a natural evolution of his powers rather than a 'secondary'
> one?
Gideon thought that Sunpost was an External, so attempted to activate his
powers by basically superloading his powers with solar energy to the point
it would kill him, then his External gene would kick in and he'd be alive
again with even more powers. As it turns out Sunspot was NOT an External,
and Gideonw as ahppy to leave him to die, but Bobby managed to metabolise
the solar energy anyway gaining his new powers.
>Does he need the sun to power-up as before?
I dunno, his powers got weird back then, actually before then, when his
"turn to silhouette" visual was changed to "Skin turns to silhouette but
costme is visible"... GACK! the Brett Blevins era... "those hideous
costumes", those "everyone male is descended from rodents" Brrrrrr!
> Characters who are making steps to their full potential and show new
tricks
> with the same powers (Iceman, Mirage, Cannonball, and Rogue, for example)
> may not necessarily be affected by secondary mutations.
Nicely put<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Feb 28, 2004 Posts: 54
|
(Msg. 50) Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:56 am
Post subject: Re: Secondary Mutations [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Sorted magAZine wrote:
>>>>>>> My pseudo-scientific B.S. explanation:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Upon activating his powers, Iceman's body is shunted into that
>>>>>>> dimention where the Wasp's mass goes when she shrinks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It might be a similar place, but not the same place. That dimension
>>>>>> is directly related to the Pym Particles, which has nothing to do
>>>>>> with Iceman's powers.
>>>>
>>>> There's really no reason why Bobby's powers can't have something to do
>>>> with Pym Particles.
>>>
>>> I guess, but isn't that needlessly tacking on something additional?
>>> Once we go that route, you know someone's going to have him shrinking
>>> and going giant.
>>
>> Agreed, but then the question arises: What's the difference between Ant-Man
>> or Wasp adding mass to become giant and the Hulk, Colossus, etc. adding
>> mass to become larger? It seems to me that the difference is only in the
>> use of the power.
>
> In the case of the Hulk, it seems more like a temporary cancerous growth than
> added bulk in the orderly way of Giant Man.
Cancerous? Temporary? Regardless of how you justify it, you still have to
account
for the extra mass. Cancerous growths don't just appear out of nowhere. The
mass
already exists; it's just added to the body. This is not what happens with the
Hulk
anyway.
> Colossus was presumably more like Iceman - the extra mass is simply the
> change in material.
Change in material cannot change mass, unless more material is added.
Colossus added a good foot of height and doubled his mass when he
powered up.
-=[ The BlakGard ]=-
"Somewhere there's danger;
somewhere there's injustice,
and somewhere else the tea is getting cold!"<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Feb 28, 2004 Posts: 54
|
(Msg. 51) Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 3:01 am
Post subject: Re: Secondary Mutations [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
~consul wrote:
>>> I guess, but isn't that needlessly tacking on something additional?
>>> Once we go that route, you know someone's going to have him shrinking
>>> and going giant.
>>
>> Of course there's no reason that he can't already do this with his powers
>> as they're already portrayed.
>
> He's bulked up to go icy-Hulk on enemies, but he's never gone smaller. Has he
> ever sent out an 'eye' like Reed Richards does, or has all his manipulaitons
> along the line of handjobs?
Well, recent issues have him shown as a disembodied head... *that's* smaller.
I kind of like the idea of "sending out an eye." Ever seen the movie Abyss? The
aliens/Atlanteans used tendrils of water as a probe. Might work with ice.
-=[ The BlakGard ]=-
"Somewhere there's danger;
somewhere there's injustice,
and somewhere else the tea is getting cold!"<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Feb 28, 2004 Posts: 912
|
(Msg. 52) Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:57 am
Post subject: Re: Secondary Mutations [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
ajsolis.DeleteThis@aol.com (AJSolis) wrote in
news:20040307055459.29724.00001091@mb-m21.aol.com:
> Other secondary mutations include warpath: He's had two actually,
> supersenses
> and flight.
At a guess, this second one won't be referenced again. It was a really
stupid idea. How would Pete Wisdom possibly guess that Warpath could
fly? What would make the connection? As portrayed in X-Force, Warpath
always had his flight powers but didn't know it until Wisdom came along
and told him. The senses are definitely an upgrade, though.
> Sunspot, depending on how unrelated you require a secondary
> condition to be:
> He's learned how to fly and project energy blasts after all.
Seems right to me.
> Changeling, developed telekinesis when Prof X loaned him telepathy.
Did he? I had no idea.
> Prof X himself seems to have latent telekinesis, since his
> genetically
> identical "twin sister" has telekinesis as well.
Not to mention that he's used tekekinesis himself.
> Bishop has learned how to channel energy into physical strength,
> again might
> not count depending on where one draws the line.
Sounds like a change to me.
> Scarlet Witch's powers have changed from mere probability
> manipulation to
> magic channeling, but may be seen as a maturation of her powers
> instead of a secondary mutation.
This was always her power, I think (as least retcon-wise). Her powers
were altered by Chthon.
> And Mirage's powers have changed three times, albeit initiated by
> outside
> forces each time, she certainly has a tendency in that direction.
Outside influences seem to be different.
> While activated first by a telepathic skrull, and then by Sage,
> Rogue has
> demonstrated shapeshifting to channel the superpowers of those she's
> absorbed in the past.
This is merely an aspect of her power, not a mutation.
> Gambit's ultimate potential is worth mentioning, but doesn't count
> since his
> powers were artificially reduced to the usual levels.
What's the potential?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Feb 28, 2004 Posts: 912
|
(Msg. 53) Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:01 am
Post subject: Re: Secondary Mutations [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Patrick McClue" <mcclue DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in
news:c2f7q0$1s2n8d$1@ID-183337.news.uni-berlin.de:
>
> "AJSolis" <ajsolis DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040307055459.29724.00001091@mb-m21.aol.com...
>> Other secondary mutations include warpath: He's had two actually,
> supersenses
>> and flight.
>
> Weren't the supersenses part of the original Thunderbird's powers?
Yes, but never part of James's abilities. I don't think you could fail
to notice having super-senses. It was definitely a change.
> They were not as strong as
> Wolverines, but still above human. Flight? Wasn't that a writer's
> mistake in the same way that one writer didn't know that M could fly?
> If not, then I guess we can add him to the list of people with
> secondary mutations.
It wasn't a mistake in the sense of the writer not knowing he couldn't
fly; It was a mistake to make him have that power. The story outright
said that it was a new ability.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Feb 28, 2004 Posts: 912
|
(Msg. 54) Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:02 am
Post subject: Re: Secondary Mutations [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Sorted magAZine" <editor DeleteThis @NOSPAMsortedmagazine.com> wrote in
news:7FF2c.1826$re1.536@newsfe1-win:
>
> "Patrick McClue" <mcclue DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c2f7q0$1s2n8d$1@ID-183337.news.uni-berlin.de...
>>
>> What was Gambit's ultimate potential?
>>
> To become the New Sun, literally!
I wish he'd go and do that already. He and Living Monolith could make a
great pair on that one.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Mar 07, 2004 Posts: 65
|
(Msg. 55) Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:32 am
Post subject: Re: Secondary Mutations [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
>
>I'm still curious to know where those powers came from.
I think they came from his possession by Reignfire, but the thing that makes
secondary mutations tricky as a classification is all those grey areas like the
fine line between natural and artificial, and how one can be sure if its a
mutation or a latent power.
>Curious: Has the Prof. ever lent anyone else telepathy? Was Changling a
>"latent psi" in order to do that?
I believe he just lent it to Changeling, and since Changeling also got
telekinesis from the deal, it would seem he had some potential in the psychic
arena to begin with. And as far as I know, he's only done that trick once,
either Xavier doesn't feel like giving his power away, or it's an unpleasant
experience or both I guess.
>I think with the Scarlet Witch, the idea is that she has always been
>channeling magic in order to affect probability. The chaotic magic bit is
>more of an explanation of her power source, rather than a new power in
>itself.
Well, at the least, it's an expansion of her powers. She used to have some
limits anyway.
>As said before, the first few issues of the New Mutants showed that her
>ultimate potential is to make her holograms solid. The only new power added
>on was her Valkerie-given powers.
Are you counting her psychic arrows as valkyrie given (probably are, but I'm
not sure)? Then her most recent upgrade was to quantum energy/reality
alteration powers, but that was (I believe) the result of someone with quantum
energy/reality alteration deciding to share. They even had the four versions
of Mirage meeting in that storyline.
>That could be the full expression of her power if she ever learned to
>control it properly. It seems that the Skrull and Sage gave her some
>control.
Yes, Rogue's powers seem to be a weird combination of shapeshifting and
telepathy.
>What was Gambit's ultimate potential?
Well, if Gambit is the missing summers brother as Mutant X suggested, than
Cyclops is the wuss of the family. At his full potential, Gambit can fly,
disentegrate objects at a glance, manipulate time (time travel, dimensional
travel, and just freezing ala charmed), channel kinetic energy to enhance his
strength and speed and give immunity to rogue's touch via an invisible aura of
power and some protection from injury.
Basically he can do anything any use of kinetic energy could accomplish in a
world with comic book physics.
Oh yeah, and there are two examples from X-Men 2099. Skullfire went from
energy blasts to becoming an entity of pure energy (so if iceman's
transformation counts, so would his), and their founder whatever his name is
started off with a hand with destructive energy, he later gained a healing hand
on the other as it were.  <!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Jul 02, 2004 Posts: 330
|
(Msg. 56) Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:52 am
Post subject: Re: Secondary Mutations [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
BlakGard wrote:
> Sorted magAZine wrote:
>>Colossus was presumably more like Iceman - the extra mass is simply the
>>change in material.
> Change in material cannot change mass, unless more material is added.
> Colossus added a good foot of height and doubled his mass when he
> powered up.
Ice Density.  And for Colossus, maybe he goes from solid inside to metal lattice inside?
--
There is a significant difference between 'dignified and understanding' and 'suffering the
inane fools patiently' concerning the dregs of society.
-till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>>
consul.RemoveThis@INVALIDdolphins-cove.com ((remove the INVALID to email))<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Mar 04, 2004 Posts: 207
|
(Msg. 57) Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Secondary Mutations [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Dan McEwen" <dannyboymcny.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c2gnn8$1t7hat$4@ID-177615.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "Sorted magAZine" <editor.DeleteThis@NOSPAMsortedmagazine.com> wrote in
> news:7FF2c.1826$re1.536@newsfe1-win:
>
> >
> > "Patrick McClue" <mcclue.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:c2f7q0$1s2n8d$1@ID-183337.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >>
> >> What was Gambit's ultimate potential?
> >>
> > To become the New Sun, literally!
>
> I wish he'd go and do that already. He and Living Monolith could make a
> great pair on that one.
And then Galactus and Phoenix go out on a date....
Patrick<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Feb 28, 2004 Posts: 912
|
(Msg. 58) Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Secondary Mutations [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Patrick McClue" <mcclue DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in news:c2h9pu$1r9shf$1@ID-
183337.news.uni-berlin.de:
>
> "Dan McEwen" <dannyboymcny DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c2gnn8$1t7hat$4@ID-177615.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> "Sorted magAZine" <editor DeleteThis @NOSPAMsortedmagazine.com> wrote in
>> news:7FF2c.1826$re1.536@newsfe1-win:
>>
>> >
>> > "Patrick McClue" <mcclue DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> > news:c2f7q0$1s2n8d$1@ID-183337.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> >>
>> >> What was Gambit's ultimate potential?
>> >>
>> > To become the New Sun, literally!
>>
>> I wish he'd go and do that already. He and Living Monolith could make a
>> great pair on that one.
>
> And then Galactus and Phoenix go out on a date....
Heh, yeah would be pretty funny. >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Mar 04, 2004 Posts: 207
|
(Msg. 59) Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Secondary Mutations [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Dan McEwen" <dannyboymcny DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c2gnmd$1t7hat$3@ID-177615.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "Patrick McClue" <mcclue DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:c2f7q0$1s2n8d$1@ID-183337.news.uni-berlin.de:
>
> >
> > "AJSolis" <ajsolis DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20040307055459.29724.00001091@mb-m21.aol.com...
> >> Other secondary mutations include warpath: He's had two actually,
> > supersenses
> >> and flight.
> >
> > Weren't the supersenses part of the original Thunderbird's powers?
>
> Yes, but never part of James's abilities. I don't think you could fail
> to notice having super-senses. It was definitely a change.
I see. I thought they always had the same powers.
>
> > They were not as strong as
> > Wolverines, but still above human. Flight? Wasn't that a writer's
> > mistake in the same way that one writer didn't know that M could fly?
> > If not, then I guess we can add him to the list of people with
> > secondary mutations.
>
> It wasn't a mistake in the sense of the writer not knowing he couldn't
> fly; It was a mistake to make him have that power. The story outright
> said that it was a new ability.
Understood
Patrick<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Feb 28, 2004 Posts: 54
|
(Msg. 60) Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:01 am
Post subject: Re: Secondary Mutations [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
~consul wrote:
>>> Colossus was presumably more like Iceman - the extra mass is simply the
>>> change in material.
>>
>> Change in material cannot change mass, unless more material is added.
>> Colossus added a good foot of height and doubled his mass when he
>> powered up.
>
> Ice Density.
10 lbs of water weighs differently when it becomes frozen?
> And for Colossus, maybe he goes from solid inside to metal lattice inside?
That still doesn't account for the doubled mass.
-=[ The BlakGard ]=-
"Somewhere there's danger;
somewhere there's injustice,
and somewhere else the tea is getting cold!"<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Secondary Mutations |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
| Related Topics: | Mutations and Magic - Why not have some of the Mutants get mutated by science, then later get their powers permently magically enhanced, like say Beast was summoned by Dr. Strange, and Dr. Strange used his magic to boost Beast's powers beyond what he can thru regular..
ShadowCat and Mystech and Magic and Mutations - Why not have ShadowCat inherit the Mystech corporation from a relative that she did not know about, who just died, when she goes to the corp she controls Msytech an starts studying Mutations and Magic and such, also this can include the secret government...
New Secondary Mutation Suggestion - Iceman: Lactation Didn't you ever wish for a nice, cold glass of milk on a hot summer day? Well, Bobby Drake is your man. His new codename could be Milkman.
WW Hulk: Gamma Corps 1?? - Is there any reason that the World War Hulk: Gamma Corps #1 came out today instead of next week as was posted on marvel.com?
Excalibur SPOILER - Spoiler space From X-Fan: http://www.x-mencomics.com/xfan/ CXF: Excalibur is revealed as being set in Genosha rather than England as the original series was. Xavier and Archangel are going to be part of the cast, as is.. |
|
You can post new topics in this forum You can reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|