Significance of the solar wind

Paul Vader wrote:

 > jesus X <jesus_x.TakeThisOut@mozillanews.org> writes:
 >
  >>The solar wind is comprised of about 907,184,740 kilograms of mass ejected from
  >>the entire surface of the sun per second. The sun has a surface area of about
  >>6.09 × 10^18 square meters, or 6,090,000,000,000,000,000. That means there's
  >>about one kilogram of matter ejected per 6.71307588 × 10^9 square meters
  >>(6,713,075,880 square meters).
 >
 >
 > Every once in a while, something smacks me hard in the face to remind me
 > that the universe is a DAMN big place. The sun is losing a billion
 > kilograms of mass to the solar wind per second, but it can keep doing that
 > for another 5-10 billion years. I think I need to sit in a corner and rock for
 > a while. *


Try laying on your back under the open sky at night. Best if it's way
away from city lights like out in the desert.

Your task is to extend your awareness out, out into the void while still
staying connected to the world underneath you. Feel the planet under
you, turning, moving through space.

Who needs drugs when we have this? 8])


TBerk
Anza Borego is a really good place for this, try winter time.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Significance of the solar wind 

"T" <tberk RemoveThis @sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:XP4%c.16911$S27.12701@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
 >
 > Try laying on your back under the open sky at night. Best if it's way
 > away from city lights like out in the desert.
 >
 > Your task is to extend your awareness out, out into the void while
still
 > staying connected to the world underneath you. Feel the planet under
 > you, turning, moving through space.

Yeah, and after a while, despite all you know, you will find yourself
clinging to the ground so you don't go flying up, up and away . . . .

Have a great day!

Ami
"Nothing is so bad that with a little thought, you couldn't make worse."<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Significance of the solar wind 

On 9/6/2004 3:51 PM Stephen Forbes cranked up the brainbox and said:
 > This time I took time to be sure I was right, my figures are truly
 > accurate this time.

You're always sure of this. And always wrong.

 > They will stand up to scrutiny which you have admitted
 > to not trying.

Because while I find this little debate fun at times, I'm not going to waste
hours of my life proving wrong every one of your flights of fantasy.

 > However, Louis claims that the Ringworld is at least 100,000 years old. By
 > that time the entire atmosphere will be moving antispinward by 17mph on
 > average.

If you ingore many laws of physics, sure.

 > ...and you're still ignoring the effect that moving the upper atmosphere
 > will have on air pressure.

And you're still ignoring the fact that gases are not frictionless fluids. There
is still energy transfer when molecules collide, and there will still be an
equilibrium reached between the motion of the Ringworld and the atmosphere. Sure
differing layers will be moving with different speeds and directions, just like
on Earth, Jupiter, the Sun, etc. But, it is a stable system.

--
jesus X [ Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism. ]
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insult [ As usual, you've been a real pantload. ]
warning [ Don't touch that! You might mutate your fingers. ]<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Erik Max Francis wrote:

 > James Kuyper wrote:
 >
 >
  >>I don't think you have an accurate method for estimating the sizes of
  >>those waves. I sure don't know how, and you haven't indicated where
  >>your numbers come from.
 >
 >
 > Couldn't be anything like his estimate of 100 yr for the Ringworld to
 > completely lose its atmosphere, could it? Na-ah.
 >


Well, it's OBVIOUS: the inhabitants will have breathed it all up by
then, leaving the surface of the Ring in vacuum.

TBerk<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Significance of the solar wind 

On 9/6/2004 8:15 PM Erik Max Francis cranked up the brainbox and said:
  > P = m g/A
  > m = P A/g

Thanks!

--
jesus X [ Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism. ]
email [ jesus_x @ mozillanews.org ]
web [ <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.mozillanews.org" target="_blank">http://www.mozillanews.org</a> ]
insult [ As usual, you've been a real pantload. ]
warning [ Don't touch that! You might mutate your fingers. ]<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Significance of the solar wind 

On 9/6/2004 3:32 PM Stephen Forbes cranked up the brainbox and said:
 > Actually at 5 miles, air density drops to under 50% of sea level, so my
 > calculation is accurate. I have a table showing standard air pressure,
 > density and temperature with altitude and that it what it tells me.

As usual, your calculations are horribly, horribly wrong.

--
jesus X [ Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism. ]
email [ jesus_x @ mozillanews.org ]
web [ <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.mozillanews.org" target="_blank">http://www.mozillanews.org</a> ]
insult [ As usual, you've been a real pantload. ]
warning [ Don't touch that! You might mutate your fingers. ]<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Significance of the solar wind 

kuyper RemoveThis @wizard.net (James Kuyper) wrote in message news:<8b42afac.0409061709.108a7909 RemoveThis @posting.google.com>...
....
 > The weight of the atmosphere due to centrifugal forces is equal to the
 > acceleration due to centrifugal forces * the mass of the atmosphere.
 > That is the force that the atmosphere is exerting downward on the
 > Ringworld due to atmospheric pressure. That's approximately one Eath
 > atmosphere of pressure times the surface area of the Ringworld.
 >
 > m*g = P*A => m = P*A/g =
 > (10000 Pascals * 6E14 mi^2 * (1609 m/mi)^2)/(0.992 * 9.82m/s^2)
 > = 1.6e24 kg
 >
 > Mass of the Earth: 5.98e24kg
 >
 > Mass of Ringworld atmosphere: 0.27 Earth masses.
 >
 > I may be missing something, but that's the answer I got.

Erik was kind enough to point out to me that I left out one zero. Sea
level air pressure is 10^5 Pa, not 10^4. So it does come out to 2.7
Earth masses, as he asserted.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Significance of the solar wind 

steve at sforbesa cix co uk writes:
 >Actually at 5 miles, air density drops to under 50% of sea level, so my
 >calculation is accurate. I have a table showing standard air pressure,

On Earth yes, on the ringworld, not necessarily. All we know is that the
atmosphere is considerably less than 1000 miles tall, because on the way
up the side of fist-of-god, Louis and the crew had to wear spacesuits.
But (and I checked), there's no reference to *when* they started to wear
them. The passage starts with Louis worrying about Prill not having one of
her own, and ends with the Improbable up at the top of the mountain, 1000
miles above the ringworld floor.

Since there's no dropoff in gravity to worry about, the ringworld's
atmosphere could very well have sea-level pressure many miles above the
surface. *

P.S. I was startled to find the full text of the novel online. Since I've
bought at least two copies of the book I don't consider it illegal for
ME to have a copy, but I think it's pretty damn uncool that it's out
there for free downloading. I'm not going to post a link to it - if
the publisher or Mr. Niven wants to know where it is, please email
me. For anyone else - if you email me asking where it is, I will laugh
at you really, really loudly.
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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steve at sforbesa cix co uk writes:
 >However, Louis claims that the Ringworld is at least 100,000 years old. By

I think that's probably too low by an order of magnitude. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Significance of the solar wind 

pv+usenet@pobox.com (Paul Vader) writes:
 >Since there's no dropoff in gravity to worry about, the ringworld's
 >atmosphere could very well have sea-level pressure many miles above the
 >surface.

Please forget I said that! *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Significance of the solar wind 

Paul Vader wrote:

 > pv+usenet@pobox.com (Paul Vader) writes:
 >
  > > Since there's no dropoff in gravity to worry about, the ringworld's
  > > atmosphere could very well have sea-level pressure many miles above
  > > the
  > > surface.
 >
 > Please forget I said that! *

Yes, the gradient of the Ringworld's atmosphere will be very, very
similar to that of Earth's. Since it's a centrifuge, the Ringworld's
"gravity" will drop off slightly less quickly than the Earth's from the
surface, but negligibly for the distances involved (even for Earth, the
gravity is very nearly constant through the height of the atmosphere).

--
__ Erik Max Francis && max DeleteThis @alcyone.com && <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.alcyone.com/max/" target="_blank">http://www.alcyone.com/max/</a>
/ \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ Smaller than the eye can see / Bigger than the mind can conceive
-- India Arie<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Significance of the solar wind 

<< From: pv+usenet@pobox.com (Paul Vader) >>


<< P.S. I was startled to find the full text of the novel online. Since I've
bought at least two copies of the book I don't consider it illegal for
ME to have a copy, but I think it's pretty damn uncool that it's out
there for free downloading. I'm not going to post a link to it - if
the publisher or Mr. Niven wants to know where it is, please email
me. >>

The link was mentioned and this was discussed on the Yahoo group a couple weeks
ago. Mr. Niven frequents there, and I believe somebody sent it to him directly
as well.
 >> Stay informed about: Significance of the solar wind 

In article <9Y9%c.3163$x12.1402@trnddc05>, jesus_x DeleteThis @mozillanews.org (jesus
X) wrote:

 > On 9/6/2004 3:32 PM Stephen Forbes cranked up the brainbox and said:
  > > Actually at 5 miles, air density drops to under 50% of sea level, so
  > > my calculation is accurate. I have a table showing standard air
  > > pressure, density and temperature with altitude and that it what it
  > > tells me.
 >
 > As usual, your calculations are horribly, horribly wrong.
 >

....and as usual your IQ is negative. It turns out I was about 1% out
according to Erik's equation. Somehow Erik was 1,000% out. Perhaps you
should try actually feeding numbers into his equation. I'll help as you
appear too stupid to do it yourself.

Sea level pressure = 101325 Pa
Area of Ringworld = 1.55 x 10^21 m^2
Gravity = 9.80665 m/s^2

mass = pressure x area / gravity
= 101325 x 1.55 x 10^21 / 9.80665
= 1.601502552 x 10^25 Kg

I said 1.62 x 10^25 Kg originally! The difference is hardly worth worrying
about. However the difference between that and Erik's answer is worth
worrying about.

Stephen

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.cix.co.uk/~sforbesa" target="_blank">http://www.cix.co.uk/~sforbesa</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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