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Sirens of Titan question: Kazak/Rumfoord split temp or per..

 
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ChrTh

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Since: Nov 29, 2005
Posts: 2



(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:28 am
Post subject: Sirens of Titan question: Kazak/Rumfoord split temp or perm? *spoilers*
Archived from groups: alt>books>kurt-vonnegut (more info?)

I'm confused by KV's comments about Kazak shifting before Rumfoord. The
exact quote is:
"The chain was empty.
An explosion on the Sun had separated man and dog. A Universe schemed in
mercy would have kept man and dog together.
The Universe inhabited by Winston Niles Rumfoord and his dog was not
schemed in mercy. Kazak had been sent ahead of his master on the great
mission to nowhere and nothing."

In a way, it makes it sound like Kazak and Winston are separated forever
(er, we'll ignore the whole "Everything that ever was always will be, and
everything that ever will be always was" and think of time as a linear
sequence where to an outside observer, one can discern a separation in
time between dog and master) ... however, the earlier comment is:

"Before my dog and I go crackling off through space like buggywhips in the
hands of a lunatic"

...which makes it sound like they're going together...it just turns out
that Kazak is getting a head start.

So what do we make of this? Should I be optimistic and take comfort in
the second quote, or pessimistic and take the first quote literally
(especially the last part)?

PS: I haven't read much Vonnegut yet, so this may be answered elsewhere in
a way (Kazak shows up in Galapagos from what I understand).

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imightbemark

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Since: Nov 29, 2005
Posts: 2



(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:35 am
Post subject: Re: Sirens of Titan question: Kazak/Rumfoord split temp or perm? *spoilers* [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

He reuses the name Kazak (in breakfast of champions, too), but I don't
think they should be seen as the same dog.

I haven't read Sirens of Titan in a little while, but from what I
remember, Rumfoord can't see the future beyond the point where he
fizzles. I think you can assume that he interprits this lack of ability
as meaning he will eventually fizzle out (fizzle isn't the best word,
but I'll keep using it!). Perhaps he just assumes as well that he and
the dog will be together. This winds up not being true.

I don't know, that's how I read it.

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ChrTh

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Since: Nov 29, 2005
Posts: 2



(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Sirens of Titan question: Kazak/Rumfoord split temp or perm? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Rumfoord knows, though, that he's going to leave the Solar System and go
elsewhere--he tells Beatrice this (paraphrase: I don't know what's going
to happen to humanity because I won't be in the Solar System in the
future). If he knows he's going to jump, he has to know that Kazak is
going to jump ahead of him.

To be honest, the whole thing feels like a literary device to me to get a
point across (the Universe without mercy comment) ... I know the science
is fiction, but I would think that Kazak and Rumfoord should have jumped
at the same time based on the mechanics of their state.
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mleeds88

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Since: May 20, 2005
Posts: 4



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:27 am
Post subject: Re: Sirens of Titan question: Kazak/Rumfoord split temp or perm? *spoilers* [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

My take on this always has been that man and dog are forever separated
-- that is the particular cruelty to which Vonnegut is referring. If
you thought the laws of the cosmos would possibly care about the small
comforts of man or beast, here is proof that there is no such
sentimentality.

Marc Leeds
author, The Vonnegut Encyclopedia

By the way, there is both a Kazak and a Kazakh.

ChrTh wrote:
> I'm confused by KV's comments about Kazak shifting before Rumfoord. The
> exact quote is:
> "The chain was empty.
> An explosion on the Sun had separated man and dog. A Universe schemed in
> mercy would have kept man and dog together.
> The Universe inhabited by Winston Niles Rumfoord and his dog was not
> schemed in mercy. Kazak had been sent ahead of his master on the great
> mission to nowhere and nothing."
>
> In a way, it makes it sound like Kazak and Winston are separated forever
> (er, we'll ignore the whole "Everything that ever was always will be, and
> everything that ever will be always was" and think of time as a linear
> sequence where to an outside observer, one can discern a separation in
> time between dog and master) ... however, the earlier comment is:
>
> "Before my dog and I go crackling off through space like buggywhips in the
> hands of a lunatic"
>
> ..which makes it sound like they're going together...it just turns out
> that Kazak is getting a head start.
>
> So what do we make of this? Should I be optimistic and take comfort in
> the second quote, or pessimistic and take the first quote literally
> (especially the last part)?
>
> PS: I haven't read much Vonnegut yet, so this may be answered elsewhere in
> a way (Kazak shows up in Galapagos from what I understand).
 >> Stay informed about: Sirens of Titan question: Kazak/Rumfoord split temp or per.. 
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