Welcome to BookBoardz.com!
FAQFAQ      ProfileProfile    Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in

Slaver stasis fields

 
Goto page 1, 2
   Book Forums (Home) -> Larry Niven RSS
Next:  KillFiles  
Author Message
tanada

External


Since: Feb 29, 2004
Posts: 25



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 1:09 pm
Post subject: Slaver stasis fields
Archived from groups: alt>books>larry-niven (more info?)

This is one of my favorite games, explore a strange ramification of a
technology described in a story.

In this case I have been daydreaming about stasis fields again. Take an
empty aluminum soda can, which is a conductor. Form a slaver stasis field
over the metal surface of the open can, both the inside and outside surfaces
are now inside the stasis field. The field is a perfect reflector for all
forms of mass and energy for everything but the opening at the side of the
top of the can.

Drop a one gram mass of Uranium 235 into the can and point the opening at
someone you don't like. The U-235 always has a few spontaneous fission
reactions going on, but because the surface area of a 1 gram mass is large
compared to the volume they almost always escape without causing additional
fission reactions. Inside the stasis can however the neutrons which do not
go directly through the opening are reflected back in the direction they
came from over and over again until they go through one of three reactions.
They might escape through the opening at some random bounce from the stasis
can bottom, but this is a reduced chance because the bottom is curved and
tends to bounce the neutrons toward the can walls instead of up towards the
surface. You do want to keep the opening pointed away from yourself because
those neutrons that do escape release enough ionizing radiation to kill you
dead. The second option is that the neutron might decay into a proton and
electron pair, with a neutrino also emitted. The third option is the
neutron keeps passing through the U-235 gram until it collides with and
fissions an atom of Uranium. When this happens the fission products
separate at high kinetic speed and an average of 2.5 more neutrons are
released to bounce around inside the can. Because the neutrons move so fast
and the volume of the can is so small this release quickly, as in within a
few milliseconds, cascades in a chain reaction.

Congratulations you just set off a miniature nuclear explosion in your own
hand. Have no fear, as long as you had the opening pointed away from
yourself you might still live to tell about it, and produce children.
Fissioning one gram of U-235 completely would give you 22,800 Kw-h of
energy, which would power an average American home for 2 years, but how much
actually will fission before escaping through the hole in the top as a
superheated beam of plasma?

To make the problem more interesting you could coat the gram of Uranium in a
non-conductor, say wax paper for simplicity, and drop it in the aluminum can
while it is still regular aluminum. Then you use a thin object like a tooth
pick to pull the metal flap at the top most of the way back to the closed
position, leaving just about a 1 mm gap at the edge and no gap at the middle
of the top. This way when you put the stasis field on the Aluminum of the
can it will still wrap around all the conductive metal but not the wax paper
encased U-235 gram inside the can. Now the gap the plasma and neutrons can
escape through is trivial compared to the size of the can and the fission
can take place much more thoroughly before the plasmasized U-235 and fission
products escape.

Of course if you really want a good bang for your buck just add as many wax
paper coated U-235 grams as you can fit and still close the mouth of the
can, at 22,800 Kwh of energy for every gram it doesn't take many to make a
real BOOM, and even with the small gap the plasma will be 200,000,000
degrees or so in temperature and will express its potential as an explosive
heating of the volume of air, water, or soil around it. It won't be hot
enough to pierce the stasis field, but all that energy will be released in a
second or less of time. 1 Kiloton of explosive energy is defined as the
release of 1 Trillion calories of energy. That is equivalent to 3.9 Billion
BTU's of energy or 1,163,000 Kwh so for every 51 grams of U-235 you get 1 Kt
of energy released. My aluminum soda pop can will hold at least 355 grams
of liquid or about 3000 grams of U-235, about 59 kt of energy released 1
second after the stasis field activates. I don't recommend you try holding
the can while this release is occurring, that is about three times the yield
of the Nagasaki bomb and four times the yield of the Hiroshima bomb.

No wonder the ARM suppressed the Stasis field!

Allen W.

 >> Stay informed about: Slaver stasis fields 
Back to top
Login to vote
anim8rfsk

External


Since: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 121



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:50 am
Post subject: Re: Slaver stasis fields [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Assuming it's cheap enough, you can do anything with a stasis field. Take a
sheet of cardboard. Punch holes in all 4 corners (now, 'cause you won't be able
to later). Spray it with handy Acme conducting spray. Lay it REAL flat and
send the charge through it. Bingo, a standard construction sheet that's paper
thin, incredibly light, infinitely strong, and a perfect insulator. Mass
produce a few standard modules and build EVERYTHING with them.

Coat your girders in your skyscraper when the building's still a framework.
Presto, one handy office structure that's as earthquake proof as you're gonna
get, unless it falls over completely.

There are some serious questions about what kind of information passes through
a stasis field. For instance, if I run a charge through one of those mylar
helium balloons, will it still float? If that works, long distance lighter
than air craft become a snap. Fill it with hydrogen with no danger of
explosion. Heck, fill it with vacuum . . .

If I coat and stasis a bowling ball, will it sink in the pool?

IIRC, some bonehead mentioned to Niven that you could take a 4 light year long
dowel, put it in stasis, put one end here and the other at the nearest handy
star, and move it back and forth, with the results appearing 4 light years away
instantaneously, and BINGO you've blown holes in relativity. And Niven started
backing away from known space . .

 >> Stay informed about: Slaver stasis fields 
Back to top
Login to vote
ernestf

External


Since: Nov 14, 2003
Posts: 929



(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:50 am
Post subject: Re: Slaver stasis fields [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"ANIM8Rfsk" <anim8rfsk.TakeThisOut@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20040411175000.13973.00000189@mb-m05.aol.com...
 >
 > IIRC, some bonehead mentioned to Niven that you could take a 4 light
year long
 > dowel, put it in stasis, put one end here and the other at the nearest
handy
 > star, and move it back and forth, with the results appearing 4 light
years away
 > instantaneously, and BINGO you've blown holes in relativity. And
Niven started
 > backing away from known space . .

Which assumes Niven didn't know much about science. And I think he did.

The propogation rate of the "jiggling" of the rod would proceed only at
the speed of light. The fact that it's solid doesn't matter. The jiggle
only moves from atom to atom at the maximum of the speed of light.

Have a great day!

Ernest
_____________________
"In the begining there was nothing, then God said, "Let there be
light"... and there was still nothing, but you could see it."<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Slaver stasis fields 
Back to top
Login to vote
anim8rfsk

External


Since: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 121



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:26 am
Post subject: Re: Slaver stasis fields [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

<< From: "Ernest Fairchild" ernestf DeleteThis @delphidude.com >>


<< The propogation rate of the "jiggling" of the rod would proceed only at
the speed of light. The fact that it's solid doesn't matter. The jiggle
only moves from atom to atom at the maximum of the speed of light. >>

Apparently not, which is why Niven decided there was a problem.
 >> Stay informed about: Slaver stasis fields 
Back to top
Login to vote
ernestf

External


Since: Nov 14, 2003
Posts: 929



(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:26 am
Post subject: Re: Slaver stasis fields [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"ANIM8Rfsk" <anim8rfsk RemoveThis @aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20040411202640.16354.00000195@mb-m03.aol.com...
 > << From: "Ernest Fairchild" ernestf RemoveThis @delphidude.com >>
 >
 >
 > << The propogation rate of the "jiggling" of the rod would proceed
only at
 > the speed of light. The fact that it's solid doesn't matter. The
jiggle
 > only moves from atom to atom at the maximum of the speed of light. >>
 >
 > Apparently not, which is why Niven decided there was a problem.

God, don't you people read "real" science, also? The propogation rate
CANNOT exceed the speed of light. I can't believe Larry Niven is stupid
enough to think it would.

Have a great day!

Ernest
_____________________
"In the begining there was nothing, then God said, "Let there be
light"... and there was still nothing, but you could see it."<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Slaver stasis fields 
Back to top
Login to vote
tberk

External


Since: Mar 11, 2004
Posts: 87



(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:05 am
Post subject: Re: Slaver stasis fields [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Allen W. McDonnell wrote:

 > This is one of my favorite games, explore a strange ramification of a
 > technology described in a story.
 >
 > In this case I have been daydreaming about stasis fields again. Take an
 > empty aluminum soda can, which is a conductor. Form a slaver stasis field
 > over the metal surface of the open can, both the inside and outside surfaces
 > are now inside the stasis field. The field is a perfect reflector for all
 > forms of mass and energy for everything but the opening at the side of the
 > top of the can.
 >
 > Drop a one gram mass of Uranium 235 into the can ....
<snip>

 > No wonder the ARM suppressed the Stasis field!
 >
 > Allen W.
 >


It didn't take long at all to get me cackling maniacally.

Just wondering how one would hold onto just such a can during some of
these very short time duration reactions.

Perhaps with a small microcomputer and battery (formed to hide in the
bottom's external convex area) handling the field you could add a 'seam'
that would enable one to pop the top thereby exposing the interior
payload to the normal space/time rules.


TBerk
Hmmm, mental gymnastics. Fun, fun.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Slaver stasis fields 
Back to top
Login to vote
anim8rfsk

External


Since: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 121



(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:05 am
Post subject: Re: Slaver stasis fields [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

<< From: "Ernest Fairchild" ernestf DeleteThis @delphidude.com >>


<< > << The propogation rate of the "jiggling" of the rod would proceed
only at
 > the speed of light. The fact that it's solid doesn't matter. The
jiggle
 > only moves from atom to atom at the maximum of the speed of light. >>
 >
 > Apparently not, which is why Niven decided there was a problem.

God, don't you people read "real" science, also? The propogation rate
CANNOT exceed the speed of light. I can't believe Larry Niven is stupid
enough to think it would. >>

LOL, explain to me exactly how a slaver stasis field works in 'real' science.
The fact that it violates 'real' science rules is exactly the problem.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Slaver stasis fields 
Back to top
Login to vote
ernestf

External


Since: Nov 14, 2003
Posts: 929



(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:05 am
Post subject: Re: Slaver stasis fields [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"ANIM8Rfsk" <anim8rfsk DeleteThis @aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20040411210554.16354.00000203@mb-m03.aol.com...
 >
 > LOL, explain to me exactly how a slaver stasis field works in 'real'
science.
 > The fact that it violates 'real' science rules is exactly the problem.

Yeah, and I guess in that universe you can exceed the speed of light,
since their SHIPS do it, so I concede the point.

Have a great day!

Ernest
_____________________
"In the begining there was nothing, then God said, "Let there be
light"... and there was still nothing, but you could see it."<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Slaver stasis fields 
Back to top
Login to vote
tberk

External


Since: Mar 11, 2004
Posts: 87



(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 4:35 am
Post subject: A Four Light Year Long Dowel gets pushed one millimeter and... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

ANIM8Rfsk wrote:

 >
 > IIRC, some bonehead mentioned to Niven that you could
 > take a 4 light year long dowel, put it in stasis, put
 > one end here and the other at the nearest handy
 > star, and move it back and forth, with the results
 > appearing 4 light years away instantaneously, and BINGO
 > you've blown holes in relativity.
 >
 > And Niven started backing away from known space . .


Well, lets say you took said 4LY long rod, covered in Stasis Field and
poked it one full millimeter down it's long axis. The other end was
conveniently located right next to an observation point that was in
close enough sync with the motion of the Earth and the Solar System it
resides in to ignore those effects (at least for the moment).

What happens next?

I say the Slaver Stasis Field isn't 100% effective. Cannon mentions time
flowing inside the field, but very very slowly compared to the 'outside'.

In 'World of P'Taavs' there is mention made of Quantum levels of
efficiency, that us lowly backward humans were not as good at making
fields as the Sea Statue's technology was.

I take it to mean that Einstein's way of thinking still applies, but how
are things 'relative' across the field layer?

I'm supposing you push on one end of the rod and there is some mass
associated with it. So it takes awhile to affect the other end. I see a
lesser than the speed of light propagation of the push down the rod.

The reason it takes awhile is the field isn't absolutely unbendable,
just, very, very stiff. I'd say the efficiency of the field would imply
a certain amount of deflection could be observed over it's length if you
had a way to grasp both ends and bend it a bit.

Given 'infinite' amounts of energy at our disposal I could imagine
bending the field to failure, whereupon all the energy contained in it's
interior would be released, possibly akin to a nuclear explosion of
stellar proportions. My terminology fails me at the moment but lets
consider a mini big bang type event.

Of course it would only be releasing the same amount poured into it as
potential, but it would be released very, very quickly. I propose a
suitable field would be able to have a very high failure threshold to
over come.

In fact, hows this for a neat toy; encase a just exploded nuclear bomb
and have it delivered to the target site. No turning back and no
escaping radiation to be detected. (Well, you could screen for fields
with radar/sonar but still.)

What say you group?


TBerk
Niven? C'mon back to Known Space. It's safe.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Slaver stasis fields 
Back to top
Login to vote
tberk

External


Since: Mar 11, 2004
Posts: 87



(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 5:46 am
Post subject: A Four Light Year Long Dowel gets pushed one millimeter and... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

ANIM8Rfsk wrote:

 >
 > IIRC, some bonehead mentioned to Niven that you could
 > take a 4 light year long dowel, put it in stasis, put
 > one end here and the other at the nearest handy
 > star, and move it back and forth, with the results
 > appearing 4 light years away instantaneously, and BINGO
 > you've blown holes in relativity.
 >
 > And Niven started backing away from known space . .


Well, lets say you took said 4LY long rod, covered in Stasis Field and
poked it one full millimeter down it's long axis. The other end was
conveniently located right next to an observation point that was in
close enough sync with the motion of the Earth and the Solar System it
resides in to ignore those effects (at least for the moment).

What happens next?

I say the Slaver Stasis Field isn't 100% effective. Cannon mentions time
flowing inside the field, but very very slowly compared to the 'outside'.

In 'World of P'Taavs' there is mention made of Quantum levels of
efficiency, that us lowly backward humans were not as good at making
fields as the Sea Statue's technology was.

I take it to mean that Einstein's way of thinking still applies, but how
are things 'relative' across the field layer?

I'm supposing you push on one end of the rod and there is some mass
associated with it. So it takes awhile to affect the other end. I see a
lesser than the speed of light propagation of the push down the rod.

The reason it takes awhile is the field isn't absolutely unbendable,
just, very, very stiff. I'd say the efficiency of the field would imply
a certain amount of deflection could be observed over it's length if you
had a way to grasp both ends and bend it a bit.

Given 'infinite' amounts of energy at our disposal I could imagine
bending the field to failure, whereupon all the energy contained in it's
interior would be released, possibly akin to a nuclear explosion of
stellar proportions. My terminology fails me at the moment but lets
consider a mini big bang type event.

Of course it would only be releasing the same amount poured into it as
potential, but it would be released very, very quickly. I propose a
suitable field would be able to have a very high failure threshold to
over come.

In fact, hows this for a neat toy; encase a just exploded nuclear bomb
and have it delivered to the target site. No turning back and no
escaping radiation to be detected. (Well, you could screen for fields
with radar/sonar but still.)

What say you group?


TBerk
Niven? C'mon back to Known Space. It's safe.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Slaver stasis fields 
Back to top
Login to vote
ernestf

External


Since: Nov 14, 2003
Posts: 929



(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 5:46 am
Post subject: Re: A Four Light Year Long Dowel gets pushed one millimeter and... was: Slave [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"T" <tberk DeleteThis @sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:yqnec.21615$Y52.20137@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
 >
 > In fact, hows this for a neat toy; encase a just exploded nuclear bomb
 > and have it delivered to the target site. No turning back and no
 > escaping radiation to be detected. (Well, you could screen for fields
 > with radar/sonar but still.)
 >
 > What say you group?

I'd say it's an intriguing idea, but simpler (and less expensive) to
just send the bomb unexploded, and exploded it in the target area.

Have a great day!

Ernest
_____________________
"In the begining there was nothing, then God said, "Let there be
light"... and there was still nothing, but you could see it."<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Slaver stasis fields 
Back to top
Login to vote
tanada

External


Since: Feb 29, 2004
Posts: 25



(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:54 am
Post subject: Re: Slaver stasis fields [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"ANIM8Rfsk" <anim8rfsk.DeleteThis@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20040411175000.13973.00000189@mb-m05.aol.com...
 > Assuming it's cheap enough, you can do anything with a stasis field. Take
a
 > sheet of cardboard. Punch holes in all 4 corners (now, 'cause you won't be
able
 > to later). Spray it with handy Acme conducting spray. Lay it REAL flat
and
 > send the charge through it. Bingo, a standard construction sheet that's
paper
 > thin, incredibly light, infinitely strong, and a perfect insulator. Mass
 > produce a few standard modules and build EVERYTHING with them.
 >
 > Coat your girders in your skyscraper when the building's still a
framework.
 > Presto, one handy office structure that's as earthquake proof as you're
gonna
 > get, unless it falls over completely.
 >

According to the Man-Kzin wars books this is a really bad idea, when two
slaver stasis feild impact each other they collapse each other and release
all their potential energy in nanoseconds. In your sky scraper model the
structure is rapidly vibrated all the time by wind, and in an earthquake it
would be shifted rapidly in such a way that it would cascade like the twin
towers when they pancaked down. No thanks.

 > There are some serious questions about what kind of information passes
through
 > a stasis field. For instance, if I run a charge through one of those
mylar
 > helium balloons, will it still float? If that works, long distance
lighter
 > than air craft become a snap. Fill it with hydrogen with no danger of
 > explosion. Heck, fill it with vacuum . . .
 >

I would think the better alternative would be to inflate the balloon in a
vacuum chamber through the use of static feild charges, once the balloon is
charged it is full sized and in a vacuum, you seal the opening's and encase
it in a stasis feild. This gived you a very low mass vacuum baloon for your
airship to be constructed upon.

 > If I coat and stasis a bowling ball, will it sink in the pool?
 >

No, its density remains unchanged.

 > IIRC, some bonehead mentioned to Niven that you could take a 4 light year
long
 > dowel, put it in stasis, put one end here and the other at the nearest
handy
 > star, and move it back and forth, with the results appearing 4 light years
away
 > instantaneously, and BINGO you've blown holes in relativity. And Niven
started
 > backing away from known space . .

The slaver stasis feild itself propogates at lightspeed so it would take 4
years for the entire dowl to be encased. Hard to beleive that nothing will
impact that huge area ahead of the field and break the conductive surface.
Also the entire mass of the dowl is still there, how do you hit it hard
enough to make it vibrate? It likely weigh more than the Sun!

Allen W.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Slaver stasis fields 
Back to top
Login to vote
tberk

External


Since: Mar 11, 2004
Posts: 87



(Msg. 13) Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:24 am
Post subject: Re: A Four Light Year Long Dowel gets pushed one millimeter and... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Ernest Fairchild wrote:

 > "T" <tberk.RemoveThis@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
 > news:yqnec.21615$Y52.20137@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
 >
<snip>
  >>What say you group?
 >
 >
 > I'd say it's an intriguing idea, but simpler (and less expensive) to
 > just send the bomb unexploded, and exploded it in the target area.
 >
 > Have a great day!
 > Ernest
 > ____

Yeah, thx for playing along BUT the real story is the 4 Light Year* long
Slaver Stasis Field enclosed (oh lets make it Lucite) rod.

Lets see, light travels 5,865,696,000,000 miles in a terrestrial year,
So (4 x 5,865,696,000,000) =

23,462,784,000,000 Miles long. Yikes!

So, does motion on one end instantly translate at the other end? If not,
why not? If so, why so?


TBerk


*<http://www.howstuffworks.com/question94.htm> What's a Light Year?
"A light year is 5,865,696,000,000 miles (9,460,800,000,000 kilometers).
That's a long way!"<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Slaver stasis fields 
Back to top
Login to vote
anim8rfsk

External


Since: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 121



(Msg. 14) Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Slaver stasis fields [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

<< From: "Allen W. McDonnell" tanada.DeleteThis@provide.net >>


<< According to the Man-Kzin wars books this is a really bad idea, when two
slaver stasis feild impact each other they collapse each other >>

Hmm. I don't like that at all. The Slavers space suits were their own stasis
chambers. Picture a Slaver ship headed for a crash. Everybody activates their
stasis suit. BAM. The suits crash into each other, the fields go off,
everybody dies. No thanks.

Man-Kzin is obviously non-canon anyway.


<< nd in an earthquake it
would be shifted rapidly in such a way that it would cascade like the twin
towers when they pancaked down. >>

How would a skyscraper framework in one big stasis field possibly cascade?


<< > If I coat and stasis a bowling ball, will it sink in the pool?
 >

No, its density remains unchanged. >>

Um - then it SHOULD sink.


<< The slaver stasis feild itself propogates at lightspeed >>

According to what source? Apparently Niven doesn't think so.


<< Also the entire mass of the dowl is still there >>

Yeah, that's a problem, even if you use Sinclair molecule chain. But the
problem is apparently stasis fields violate relativity all the time.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Slaver stasis fields 
Back to top
Login to vote
tanada

External


Since: Feb 29, 2004
Posts: 25



(Msg. 15) Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Slaver stasis fields [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

 > << nd in an earthquake it
 > would be shifted rapidly in such a way that it would cascade like the twin
 > towers when they pancaked down. >>
 >
 > How would a skyscraper framework in one big stasis field possibly cascade?
 >
 >

I thought you were using your cardboard office moduales inside the framework
of the stasis piping, then when the earthquake happens your stasis office
modules bump hard on the stasis building frame and whoops, there goes
another building!

Allen W.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Slaver stasis fields 
Back to top
Login to vote
Display posts from previous:   
   Book Forums (Home) -> Larry Niven All times are: Pacific Time (US & Canada) (change)
Goto page 1, 2
Page 1 of 2

 
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



[ Contact us | Terms of Service/Privacy Policy ]