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External
Since: Feb 05, 2004
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 12:35 pm
Post subject: Smaug
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books>tolkien (more info?)
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External
Since: Feb 25, 2004
Posts: 14
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 3:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Smaug [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On 13 Mar 2004 09:35:15 -0800, colinaparker DeleteThis @hotmail.com (Colin) wrote:
>What is the correct pronunciation? "Smorg" or "Smowg" (as in loud)?
My preference, and one I *know* is wrong, is to refer to the rich,
slumbering dragon as "smug."
He got his treasure the old-fashioned, dragon way: he stole it.
(although he probably doesn't see it that way - it's his *job*.)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
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External
Since: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 323
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Smaug [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Colin wrote:
> What is the correct pronunciation? "Smorg" or "Smowg" (as in loud)?
The 'au' in Smaug (and Sauron) is pronounced like 'sour'.
--
Bill
"Wise fool"
Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
-- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not--<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Smaug |
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External
Since: Mar 13, 2004
Posts: 9
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Smaug [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> What is the correct pronunciation? "Smorg" or "Smowg" (as in loud)?
Where did you take an "r" from ???
AFAIK - "Smaug" rhymes with "dog" (in American English).
Latet<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Smaug |
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External
Since: Mar 13, 2004
Posts: 9
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Smaug [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> AFAIK - "Smaug" rhymes with "dog" (in American English).
Well, at least in this animated movie:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077687/" target="_blank">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077687/</a>
latet<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Smaug |
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Since: Feb 01, 2004
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 12:33 am
Post subject: Re: Smaug [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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latet wrote:
>> What is the correct pronunciation? "Smorg" or "Smowg" (as in loud)?
>
> Where did you take an "r" from ???
I was wondering the same thing too. 
> AFAIK - "Smaug" rhymes with "dog" (in American English).
See RotK, Appendix E: "Thus /ai/, /ei/, /oi/, /ui/ are intended to be
pronounced respectively as the vowels in English /rye/ (not /ray/),
/grey/, /boy/, /ruin/; and /au/ (/aw/) as in /loud/, /how/ and not as in
/laud/, /haw/."[1]
[1] or /dog/.
--
Bill
"Wise fool"
Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
-- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not--<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Smaug |
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Since: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 323
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 12:34 am
Post subject: Re: Smaug [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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latet wrote:
>> AFAIK - "Smaug" rhymes with "dog" (in American English).
>
> Well, at least in this animated movie:
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077687/</font" target="_blank">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077687/</font</a>>
I don't think that's considered canon.
--
Bill
"Wise fool"
Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
-- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not--<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Smaug |
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Since: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 38
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 4:05 am
Post subject: Re: Smaug [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Bill O'Meally" <OMeallyMD.TakeThisOut@wise.rr.com> writes:
> latet wrote:
> > AFAIK - "Smaug" rhymes with "dog" (in American English).
>
> See RotK, Appendix E: "Thus /ai/, /ei/, /oi/, /ui/ are intended to be
> pronounced respectively as the vowels in English /rye/ (not /ray/),
> /grey/, /boy/, /ruin/; and /au/ (/aw/) as in /loud/, /how/ and not as in
> /laud/, /haw/."[1]
>
> [1] or /dog/.
That is in reference to the diphthongs of the _Elven_ languages.
"Smaug" is not an Elven word -- it has its roots in Old English.
(And is quite recognizable to modern Weejuns, BTW.)
"Smawg" ought to do it. Or perhaps (in American English) "Smog".
-SK-
--
perl -e 'print "Just another Perl ${\(trickster and hacker)},";'
The Sidhekin *proves* Sidhe did it!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Smaug |
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Since: Mar 13, 2004
Posts: 9
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 4:15 am
Post subject: Re: Smaug [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> >> What is the correct pronunciation? "Smorg" or "Smowg" (as in loud)?
> > Where did you take an "r" from ???
> I was wondering the same thing too.
Perhaps Colin will explain and feed our linguistic appetite.
> > AFAIK - "Smaug" rhymes with "dog" (in American English).
> See RotK, Appendix E: "Thus /ai/, /ei/, /oi/, /ui/ are intended to be
> pronounced respectively as the vowels in English /rye/ (not /ray/),
> /grey/, /boy/, /ruin/; and /au/ (/aw/) as in /loud/, /how/ and not as in
> /laud/, /haw/."[1]
> [1] or /dog/.
Well, according to the App.E., you may be right about Smaug.
But I'd rather like it rhyming with "dog", and I'll tell you why:
I'm Polish and the Polish noun for "dragon" is "smok",
which is pronounced almost the same as the name Smaug -
- if it would rhyme with "dog" 
I just liked the idea that Tolkien might have known the Polish
word "smok" and it could have inspired him to come up with
Smaug's name
It is even quite surprizing for a Pole to read a Polish version of
The Hobbit, where the original phrase "...the dragon Smaugh..."
is translated to: "... smok Smaug....", and if you're Polish
you will probablt read both words exactly the same (in Polish, "g"
becomes "k" at the end of a word).
Anyway,
If you like dragons and want to see a full-scale dragon's statue,
belching with real fire, you should visit Cracow, Poland
and see this:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://wizard.ae.krakow.pl/~domaga2i/smok.jpg" target="_blank">http://wizard.ae.krakow.pl/~domaga2i/smok.jpg</a>
Sorry for "OT".
Greetings,
latet<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Smaug |
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Posts: 4
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 10:03 am
Post subject: Re: Smaug [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Bill O'Meally" <OMeallyMD.TakeThisOut@wise.rr.com> wrote in message news:<s6L4c.51998$QP.48427@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>...
> latet wrote:
> >> What is the correct pronunciation? "Smorg" or "Smowg" (as in loud)?
> >
> > Where did you take an "r" from ???
>
> I was wondering the same thing too.
>
Being a British English speaker I could have said "Smawg" rather than
Smorg to get over the distinction between that pronunciation and
Smowg. The "r" wouldn't be pronounced anyway in British English
(except in some dialects)as both are pronounced in the same way. I
have always thought it should be pronounced as if it were Old English
but I don't know how Old English should be pronounced! Tolkien also
says that the name is a "low philological jest" but I don't know why.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Smaug |
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Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 31
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 10:21 am
Post subject: Re: Smaug [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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The Sidhekin wrote:
> "Smawg" ought to do it. Or perhaps (in American English) "Smog".
"Smog" and "Smawg" in American English are quite distinct. "Smog" has a
more open sound.
The original poster was writing in British English, IMO, and by "Smorg"
he meant "Smawg". Although I generally have little trouble with B.E.
myself, I did get tripped up once in a Terry Pratchett book I'd ordered
from amazon.co.uk. (They generally come out in the UK a year or so
before they're available in the US.) His "Igor" character kept calling
people "Marthter" and I was halfway through the book before I realized
Pratchett was spelling phonetically exactly the old-fashioned mad
scientist hunchback lab assistant pronunciation, if you spoke English
with a Midlands accent.
-- Chris Csernica<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Smaug |
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Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 225
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 10:21 am
Post subject: Re: Smaug [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Chris Csernica" <csernica.TakeThisOut@ihwy.com> wrote in message
news:89060e5426ae0afdb3bef36282e22480@news.teranews.com...
> The Sidhekin wrote:
>
> > "Smawg" ought to do it. Or perhaps (in American English) "Smog".
>
> "Smog" and "Smawg" in American English are quite distinct. "Smog" has a
> more open sound.
It all depends on *which* version of American English you are talking about.
In *my* neck of the woods, "Smog" and "Smawg" would sound as alike as "dog"
and "dawg".  ( Anybody remember "Deputy Dawg"?)
Barbara
>
> The original poster was writing in British English, IMO, and by "Smorg"
> he meant "Smawg". Although I generally have little trouble with B.E.
> myself, I did get tripped up once in a Terry Pratchett book I'd ordered
> from amazon.co.uk. (They generally come out in the UK a year or so
> before they're available in the US.) His "Igor" character kept calling
> people "Marthter" and I was halfway through the book before I realized
> Pratchett was spelling phonetically exactly the old-fashioned mad
> scientist hunchback lab assistant pronunciation, if you spoke English
> with a Midlands accent.
>
> -- Chris Csernica<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Smaug |
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Since: Jan 01, 2004
Posts: 748
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Smaug [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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It seems "Colin" wrote in rec.arts.books.tolkien:
>What is the correct pronunciation? "Smorg" or "Smowg" (as in loud)?
The latter.
Some accents (an Oxford one among them) may make it sound like the
former. But Tolkien's "au" is always the vowel in "loud".
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://OakRoadSystems.com" target="_blank">http://OakRoadSystems.com</a>
Tolkien FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://Tolkien.slimy.com" target="_blank">http://Tolkien.slimy.com</a> (Steuard Jensen's site)
Tolkien letters FAQ:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html" target="_blank">http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html</a>
FAQ of the Rings: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm" target="_blank">http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm</a>
Encyclopedia of Arda: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm" target="_blank">http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm</a>
more FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm" target="_blank">http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Smaug |
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Since: Jan 01, 2004
Posts: 748
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Smaug [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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It seems "latet" wrote in rec.arts.books.tolkien:
>AFAIK - "Smaug" rhymes with "dog" (in American English).
"Smaug" is not an American English word, but a foreign one. Even
many Americans make some attempt at pronouncing foreign proper names
correctly.
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://OakRoadSystems.com" target="_blank">http://OakRoadSystems.com</a>
Tolkien FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://Tolkien.slimy.com" target="_blank">http://Tolkien.slimy.com</a> (Steuard Jensen's site)
Tolkien letters FAQ:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html" target="_blank">http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html</a>
FAQ of the Rings: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm" target="_blank">http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm</a>
Encyclopedia of Arda: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm" target="_blank">http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm</a>
more FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm" target="_blank">http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Smaug |
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External
Since: Mar 13, 2004
Posts: 9
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Smaug [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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> "Smog" and "Smawg" in American English are quite distinct. "Smog" has a
> more open sound.
It seems like there are 2 possible pronunciation variants
of the word "smog" in AmE. At least, that's what my Longman
Dictionary says. Some people wil rhyme it with "dog",
some other with "grog".
If someone could tell us which version is used in which
parts of the US, I'd be very happy,
though it's getting quite OT
Thanks,
latet<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Smaug |
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