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External
Since: Dec 12, 2003
Posts: 210
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(Msg. 181) Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 8:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Don't Get Sore ... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>books>larry-niven (more info?)
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In article <406DF230.9CC3BE91 DeleteThis @alcyone.com>,
Erik Max Francis <max DeleteThis @alcyone.com> writes:
>Richard Ballard wrote:
>
>>Moving radially inward is called 'falling into the Sun' --
>>my original premise. And because orbital velocity is
>>not cancelled _instantaneously_, we will need some
>>remote steering capability as I stated originally.
>
>You need to provide that deltavee yourself, whether you do it
>immediately or over a (relatively short) period of time.
Space capsules such as Apollo had limited force mechanisms
both to alter velocity and direction. Immediate (delta-t equals
zero) cessation of velocity requires infinite force -- unlikely,
and infinite force if applied would physically destroy the capsule
unless you can simultaneously eliminate the capsule's inertial
mass. I know no mechanism to eliminate inertial mass, and
I do _not_ want to discuss unreal theoretical cases further.
Let's look at reality, not a special clever case.
You are in orbit and your capsule has momentum. Momentum
equates to instantaneous velocity in some direction. Assuming
no burn, the only other factor is gravitational acceleration.
Now, you burn to reduce your momentum. You infinitisimally
drop out of orbit and begin spiraling in towards the sun. Your
capsule tends to fall into a new, cometlike orbit circling the Sun.
But you continue burning and steering (deliberately decreasing
velocity and modifying direction, further decaying the spiral
trajectory) to head into the Sun. You deliberately fall into the
Sun and the nuclear waste is incinerated by the Sun's heat.
IMO much of the delta-v issue deals with getting from
one planet to the other (planetary orbit angular phase
difference considerations -- for example Earth at
1:00 o'clock and Mars at 7:00 o'clock with the Sun at
the center) and whether you launch _in_ the orbit
direction or _against_ the orbit direction (determined
by launch location, launch direction and launch time of
day). The Sun is at the _center_. Create an inward
spiral and you WILL find the Sun without encountering
any _planetary orbit_ angular phase difference
considerations.
You can junk science up with numbers and jargon, or
you can explain concepts simply and intuitively. Planets
(and stars like the Sun) often are termed 'gravity wells'.
It takes less energy to drop something down a well
than to stand at the well bottom and toss something out
of the well.
"All Rights Reserved"?
If I 'right' must I reserve?
I got no problems.
Other people got problems.
00: 21 _8 02 03/35 06 09
Richard Ballard MSEE CNA4 KD0AZ
--
Consultant specializing in computer networks, imaging & security
Listed as rjballard in "Friends & Favorites" at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.amazon.com" target="_blank">www.amazon.com</a>
Last book review: "Guerrilla Television" by Michael Shamberg<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
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External
Since: Jul 09, 2003
Posts: 169
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(Msg. 182) Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 8:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Don't Get Sore ... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Richard Ballard wrote:
> You can junk science up with numbers and jargon, or
> you can explain concepts simply and intuitively. Planets
> (and stars like the Sun) often are termed 'gravity wells'.
> It takes less energy to drop something down a well
> than to stand at the well bottom and toss something out
> of the well.
.... and incorrectly. The problem here is you haven't the slightest idea
how orbital mechanics works, yet are trying to lecture other people on
the subject. This is ridiculous, verginging on hilarious.
--
__ Erik Max Francis && max RemoveThis @alcyone.com && <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.alcyone.com/max/" target="_blank">http://www.alcyone.com/max/</a>
/ \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
\__/ Too much agreement kills a chat.
-- Eldridge Cleaver<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
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External
Since: Dec 12, 2003
Posts: 210
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(Msg. 183) Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 8:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Don't Get Sore ... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <406DF28B.4A7D95CB.TakeThisOut@alcyone.com>,
Erik Max Francis <max.TakeThisOut@alcyone.com> writes:
>Richard Ballard wrote:
>
>>"Ignoring gravity assists"?
>
>Apparently you do not know what a gravity assist is.
>
>>A probe from Earth to Mars fights the Sun's gravity.
>>A probe from Earth to the Sun is accelerated by the Sun's gravity.
>>There might be with-orbit direction versus against-orbit direction
>>considerations here, but you have not convinced me.
>
>What is the point of trying to convince you of anything? You're
>unwilling to even look at raw data which counters your preconceived
>notions; I shudder to think of the difficulty of trying to get you to
>actually understand orbital mechanics.
>
>>And I doubt you can convince me that throwing something
>>_out_ of a gravity well requires less energy than throwing
>>something _down_ a gravity well. That is the issue.
>>
>>I am _not_ interested in fabricated special cases
>>such as ignoring gravity assists.
>
>You do not know what a gravity assist is (getting from Earth to Mars
>doesn't involve any), so what is this statement supposed to mean?
>
>--
> __ Erik Max Francis && max.TakeThisOut@alcyone.com
<font color=purple> > && <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.alcyone.com/max/</font" target="_blank">http://www.alcyone.com/max/</font</a>>
>/ \ San Jose, CA, USA
I know about a maneuver where a probe makes a close approach
to a planetoid, whips around the planetoid accelerated by the
planetoid's gravity, and continues onward with increased velocity
as a result of the maneuver. This maneuver was used by the
probes that visited first Jupiter and then Saturn. If that is your
definition of a 'gravity assist', then your definition is not relevant
to the problem under discussion.
BTW, I also know that Larry Niven discussed this maneuver
in his volume "Neutron Star", and apparently LN did not
account for the angular momentum imparted to the capsule
as it whipped around a neutronium plantoid.
NOW, saying that the Sun's gravity assists you as you
deliberately attempt to plummet Sunward is IMO another
'gravity assist'. Killfile me if you don't like it. You are
needlessly argumentative and I am not worried about
impressing you.
"All Rights Reserved"?
If I 'right' must I reserve?
I got no problems.
Other people got problems.
00: 21 _8 02 03/35 06 09
Richard Ballard MSEE CNA4 KD0AZ
--
Consultant specializing in computer networks, imaging & security
Listed as rjballard in "Friends & Favorites" at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.amazon.com" target="_blank">www.amazon.com</a>
Last book review: "Guerrilla Television" by Michael Shamberg<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Don't Get Sore ... |
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External
Since: Mar 28, 2004
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 184) Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 8:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Don't Get Sore ... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"gravity assist" is a technical term denoting the use of a planet's
momentum to reduce or increase the momentum of an object. It functions by
a close fly-by on one side or the other of the planet. The planet's
gravity then changes the path of the object to either follow or counter
the planet's. The movement of the planet causes a change in the net speed
of the capsule before and after the planet's gravity became significant,
transfering some of the momentum of the planet to the object. This can be
a rather significant gain, and was used in the orbit of the Voyager space
probes, among others.
-Jonathan
---Original Message---
In article <406DF28B.4A7D95CB.RemoveThis@alcyone.com>,
Erik Max Francis <max.RemoveThis@alcyone.com> writes:
>Richard Ballard wrote:
>
>>"Ignoring gravity assists"?
>
>Apparently you do not know what a gravity assist is.
>
>>A probe from Earth to Mars fights the Sun's gravity.
>>A probe from Earth to the Sun is accelerated by the Sun's gravity.
>>There might be with-orbit direction versus against-orbit direction
>>considerations here, but you have not convinced me.
>
>What is the point of trying to convince you of anything? You're
>unwilling to even look at raw data which counters your preconceived
>notions; I shudder to think of the difficulty of trying to get you to
>actually understand orbital mechanics.
>
>>And I doubt you can convince me that throwing something
>>_out_ of a gravity well requires less energy than throwing
>>something _down_ a gravity well. That is the issue.
>>
>>I am _not_ interested in fabricated special cases
>>such as ignoring gravity assists.
>
>You do not know what a gravity assist is (getting from Earth to Mars
>doesn't involve any), so what is this statement supposed to mean?
>
>--
> __ Erik Max Francis && max.RemoveThis@alcyone.com
<font color=purple> > && <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.alcyone.com/max/</font" target="_blank">http://www.alcyone.com/max/</font</a>>
>/ \ San Jose, CA, USA
I know about a maneuver where a probe makes a close approach
to a planetoid, whips around the planetoid accelerated by the
planetoid's gravity, and continues onward with increased velocity
as a result of the maneuver. This maneuver was used by the
probes that visited first Jupiter and then Saturn. If that is your
definition of a 'gravity assist', then your definition is not relevant
to the problem under discussion.
BTW, I also know that Larry Niven discussed this maneuver
in his volume "Neutron Star", and apparently LN did not
account for the angular momentum imparted to the capsule
as it whipped around a neutronium plantoid.
NOW, saying that the Sun's gravity assists you as you
deliberately attempt to plummet Sunward is IMO another
'gravity assist'. Killfile me if you don't like it. You are
needlessly argumentative and I am not worried about
impressing you.
"All Rights Reserved"?
If I 'right' must I reserve?
I got no problems.
Other people got problems.
00: 21 _8 02 03/35 06 09
Richard Ballard MSEE CNA4 KD0AZ
--
Consultant specializing in computer networks, imaging & security
Listed as rjballard in "Friends & Favorites" at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.amazon.com" target="_blank">www.amazon.com</a>
Last book review: "Guerrilla Television" by Michael Shamberg<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Don't Get Sore ... |
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External
Since: Dec 12, 2003
Posts: 210
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(Msg. 185) Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 8:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Don't Get Sore ... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <c4ks31$1arf$1@bigboote.WPI.EDU>,
Stacy <haponik+pleasenospam@wpi.edu> writes:
>Also, please respond to his claim that the trouble of unreliable
>electronics is currently being worked upon, i.e.,
>
> "As an example of the sorts of things that people are doing about
> this sort of susceptibility of electronics, a project at this
> university to build a nano-satellite is using a system of three
> processors doing identical instructions, and having all three
> reset if any two return a different result."
There are fairly standard design rules for designing digital
integrated circuitry that is hardened against electromagnetic
field damage, but the design rules typically run counter to
'high speed low power consumption' digital design rules.
Analog RF input circuitry is different. It is designed for
low noise reception of very weak electromagnetic fields (EMFs).
Low noise reception is the overriding consideration, and
RF design is as much art as science. Big EMF spikes tend to
burn out sensitive RF receiver front ends. Furthermore,
analog circuitry design is a declining art -- everybody teaches
digital, while few teach analog. Fewer practitioners makes
for slower evolution.
You continually (and annoyingly) ask for URL references.
I am _not_ going to provide a URL reference, but if you look
at my sig you will see KD0AZ. I am an old amateur radio
operator and KD0AZ was _not_ my first amateur radio callsign.
I used to build this stuff in my bedroom.
"All Rights Reserved"?
If I 'right' must I reserve?
I got no problems.
Other people got problems.
00: 21 _8 02 03/35 06 09
Richard Ballard MSEE CNA4 KD0AZ
--
Consultant specializing in computer networks, imaging & security
Listed as rjballard in "Friends & Favorites" at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.amazon.com" target="_blank">www.amazon.com</a>
Last book review: "Guerrilla Television" by Michael Shamberg<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Don't Get Sore ... |
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External
Since: Feb 08, 2004
Posts: 64
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(Msg. 186) Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 9:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Don't Get Sore ... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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>From: rball84213
>You can junk science up with numbers and jargon, or
>you can explain concepts simply and intuitively. Planets
>(and stars like the Sun) often are termed 'gravity wells'.
>It takes less energy to drop something down a well
>than to stand at the well bottom and toss something out
>of the well.
All I can say is you are wrong. You might want to check
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://aerospacescholars.jsc.nasa.gov/HAS/cirr/ss/2/4.cfm" target="_blank">http://aerospacescholars.jsc.nasa.gov/HAS/cirr/ss/2/4.cfm</a> for a better
understanding of how orbits work.
Science is sometimes counterintuitive, and this is one of those times. It
seems like it should be easier to move down a gravity well than up, but it is
not.
--
Ferengi rule of acquisition #192: Never cheat a Klingon...unless you're sure
you can get away with it.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Don't Get Sore ... |
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External
Since: Feb 08, 2004
Posts: 64
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(Msg. 187) Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 9:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Don't Get Sore ... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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>I know about a maneuver where a probe makes a close approach
>to a planetoid, whips around the planetoid accelerated by the
>planetoid's gravity, and continues onward with increased velocity
>as a result of the maneuver. This maneuver was used by the
>probes that visited first Jupiter and then Saturn. If that is your
>definition of a 'gravity assist', then your definition is not relevant
>to the problem under discussion.
We need to kill off a lot of velocity to get into the sun. Just how much is
the topic of a rather heated discussion that has moved over to sci.physics, but
it is a lot in any case. Venus and Mercury would both be available in killing
off this velocity. We time our trip to fall just in front of them, and their
gravity pulls us backward in orbit, exactly the way we want to go.
You are still going to need a godawful huge amount of propellant though, even
if you use both of these planets to slow down and even if Eric is right about
the velocity change needed. 50 km/s is not a trivial delta v, not by a long
shot It is almost five times what is needed to get away from Earth, and that
is not easy to do. Several hundred km/s (and I still maintain that is the
correct value) is even worse.
--
Ferengi rule of acquisition #192: Never cheat a Klingon...unless you're sure
you can get away with it.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Don't Get Sore ... |
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External
Since: Mar 09, 2004
Posts: 21
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(Msg. 188) Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 10:10 am
Post subject: Re: Don't Get Sore ... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>books>larry-niven, others (more info?)
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GIS Manager wrote:
> Wow!!!
>
> We have some Physicists here that NASA or ESA could use.....
> Where have you guys been hiding lately???!
> If you have shared your talents earlier...maybe we should have reached
> and populated even Pluto by now!!!
>
> We would have fulfilled Asimov's timeline for mankind's conquest of
> the Universe....
>
> And to think Einstein is considered as the NAME in Physics.
> It should be Ballard, Johnson....wow...
>
> I am glad that I was born in your time...
You think there's something wrong with my physics?
Well, maybe I did make a mistake somewhere... I can't see it though. But,
I'm always happy to be corrected. 
Care to point out any of my mistakes?
--
-blj- >> Stay informed about: Don't Get Sore ... |
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External
Since: Dec 12, 2003
Posts: 210
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(Msg. 189) Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Don't Get Sore ... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>books>larry-niven (more info?)
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[RB comment: Response provided both to ABIA and ABLN ]
In article <c4mvrv$86q$2@blue.rahul.net>,
arromdee RemoveThis @violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>And your idea of spiraling in towards the sun is nonsense.
>Spiraling in
>only happens when there is friction. If you're in orbit
>around the sun
>and your ship gets a push towards the sun, the ship gets
>closer--and then
>gets farther away again. It doesn't spiral in.
A continuous retroburn insufficient to cancel forward
momentum simulates your 'only happens when there is friction'.
This is obvious and you are needlessly argumentative.
"All Rights Reserved"?
If I 'right' must I reserve?
I got no problems.
Other people got problems.
00: 21 _8 02 03/35 06 09
Richard Ballard MSEE CNA4 KD0AZ
--
Consultant specializing in computer networks, imaging & security
Listed as rjballard in "Friends & Favorites" at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.amazon.com" target="_blank">www.amazon.com</a>
Last book review: "Guerrilla Television" by Michael Shamberg<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Don't Get Sore ... |
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External
Since: Dec 12, 2003
Posts: 210
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(Msg. 190) Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 2:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Don't Get Sore ... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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[RB comment: Response provided both to ABIA and ABLN ]
In article <20040403131407.22368.00000468 DeleteThis @mb-m14.aol.com>,
lvpokerplayer DeleteThis @aol.com (LV Poker Player) writes:
[RB comment: Richard Ballard wrote:]
>>I know about a maneuver where a probe makes a close approach
>>to a planetoid, whips around the planetoid accelerated by the
>>planetoid's gravity, and continues onward with increased velocity
>>as a result of the maneuver. This maneuver was used by the
>>probes that visited first Jupiter and then Saturn. If that is your
>>definition of a 'gravity assist', then your definition is not
>>relevant to the problem under discussion.
>
>We need to kill off a lot of velocity to get into the sun.
Just keep retroburning and steering. You are not attempting
to land on the Sun -- hit it hard. And if you enter the Sun
off-center you will incinerate -- the whole point of the exercise.
You are needlessly argumentative.
"All Rights Reserved"?
If I 'right' must I reserve?
I got no problems.
Other people got problems.
00: 21 _8 02 03/35 06 09
Richard Ballard MSEE CNA4 KD0AZ
--
Consultant specializing in computer networks, imaging & security
Listed as rjballard in "Friends & Favorites" at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.amazon.com" target="_blank">www.amazon.com</a>
Last book review: "Guerrilla Television" by Michael Shamberg<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Don't Get Sore ... |
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External
Since: Feb 08, 2004
Posts: 64
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(Msg. 191) Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:32 am
Post subject: Re: Don't Get Sore ... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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>From: rball84213
>>We need to kill off a lot of velocity to get into the sun.
>
>Just keep retroburning and steering.
Keep retroburning until you have killed off about 50 km/s. Instead, spend your
money on several launches into Earth orbit. It will be a lot more productive.
Oh, I know, you think it is easier to move inward toward the sun, and no one is
about to confuse you with any inconvenient facts, right?
Don't like being patronized? Then do a little research before making your
idiotic pronouncements.
--
Ferengi rule of acquisition #192: Never cheat a Klingon...unless you're sure
you can get away with it.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Don't Get Sore ... |
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External
Since: Mar 28, 2004
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 192) Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Don't Get Sore ... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Actually, the argument was not to launch capsules of nuclear waste at all,
but to spend the money from the crazed attempt to get nuclear waste into
the sun on something more productive.
It also really doesn't matter all that much if it's in a cometlike orbit,
so long as it does not have enough energy to get back to earth. Everything
else is already hideously irradiated, which our atmosphere protects us
from, so a little of our nuclear waste isn't going to matter much. We're
orbiting a thermonuclear explosion so huge its gravity holds its matter
together. _nuclear waste in space does not matter_.
-Jonathan
---Original Message---
[RB comment: Response provided both to ABIA and ABLN ]
In article <20040405003246.16062.00000679.DeleteThis@mb-m23.aol.com>,
lvpokerplayer.DeleteThis@aol.com (LV Poker Player) writes:
>>>We need to kill off a lot of velocity to get into the sun.
>>
[RB comment: Richard Ballard wrote:]
>>Just keep retroburning and steering.
>
>Keep retroburning until you have killed off about 50 km/s.
>Instead, spend your
>money on several launches into Earth orbit.
Are you con fused, or has this thread turned into a game of
'Pin the tail on the Richard'?
The _original issue_ (one of several) was launching capsules
filled with nuclear waste that had been generated on the lunar
(and terrestrial) surface for the purpose of incinerating the
waste in the Sun. A 'near miss' approach to the Sun's center
should be adequate. You obviously want remote control
capability, and you want to avoid nuclear waste capsules
circling the Sun in cometlike orbits.
Other than deliberately creating spacejunk, I know no reason
to launch capsules of nuclear waste into terrestrial orbit.
"All Rights Reserved"?
If I 'right' must I reserve?
I got no problems.
Other people got problems.
00: 21 _8 02 03/35 06 09
Richard Ballard MSEE CNA4 KD0AZ
--
Consultant specializing in computer networks, imaging & security
Listed as rjballard in "Friends & Favorites" at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.amazon.com" target="_blank">www.amazon.com</a>
Last book review: "Guerrilla Television" by Michael Shamberg<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Don't Get Sore ... |
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External
Since: Dec 12, 2003
Posts: 210
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(Msg. 193) Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Don't Get Sore ... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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[RB comment: Response provided both to ABIA and ABLN ]
In article <20040405003246.16062.00000679.DeleteThis@mb-m23.aol.com>,
lvpokerplayer.DeleteThis@aol.com (LV Poker Player) writes:
>>>We need to kill off a lot of velocity to get into the sun.
>>
[RB comment: Richard Ballard wrote:]
>>Just keep retroburning and steering.
>
>Keep retroburning until you have killed off about 50 km/s.
>Instead, spend your
>money on several launches into Earth orbit.
Are you con fused, or has this thread turned into a game of
'Pin the tail on the Richard'?
The _original issue_ (one of several) was launching capsules
filled with nuclear waste that had been generated on the lunar
(and terrestrial) surface for the purpose of incinerating the
waste in the Sun. A 'near miss' approach to the Sun's center
should be adequate. You obviously want remote control
capability, and you want to avoid nuclear waste capsules
circling the Sun in cometlike orbits.
Other than deliberately creating spacejunk, I know no reason
to launch capsules of nuclear waste into terrestrial orbit.
"All Rights Reserved"?
If I 'right' must I reserve?
I got no problems.
Other people got problems.
00: 21 _8 02 03/35 06 09
Richard Ballard MSEE CNA4 KD0AZ
--
Consultant specializing in computer networks, imaging & security
Listed as rjballard in "Friends & Favorites" at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.amazon.com" target="_blank">www.amazon.com</a>
Last book review: "Guerrilla Television" by Michael Shamberg<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Don't Get Sore ... |
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External
Since: Dec 12, 2003
Posts: 210
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(Msg. 194) Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Don't Get Sore ... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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[Comment: Response provided both to ABIA and ABLN ]
In article <c4s9jp$kqb$1@blue.rahul.net>,
arromdee RemoveThis @violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>If you do a continuous retroburn , you'll only "spiral" as
>long as you're
>burning, and even then you won't get a real spiral.
>If it's insufficient
>to cancel forward momentum, then once you stop the burn ...
Continue burning.
It would be nice if we could use the ever increasing
light density on a capsule aproaching the Sun to power
an ion propulsion system. That would solve the fuel
expenditure problem.
>..., you'll be in an orbit which will take you closer
>for a little while but will then take you
>farther away again. ...
I already said that a cometlike orbit around the Sun was
not the solution.
> ... You will not fall in.
Happily the Sun is a big target, does not require a soft
landing, and a close approach will accomplish incineration.
This might be _unaffordable_ today from a fuel expenditure
standpoint, but given an affordable ion drive I believe the
concept is practical. It also completely incinerates the
nuclear waste -- a nice feature.
"All Rights Reserved"?
If I 'right' must I reserve?
I got no problems.
Other people got problems.
00: 21 _8 02 03/35 06 09
Richard Ballard MSEE CNA4 KD0AZ
--
Consultant specializing in computer networks, imaging & security
Listed as rjballard in "Friends & Favorites" at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.amazon.com" target="_blank">www.amazon.com</a>
Last book review: "Guerrilla Television" by Michael Shamberg<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Don't Get Sore ... |
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External
Since: Dec 12, 2003
Posts: 210
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(Msg. 195) Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Don't Get Sore ... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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[RB comment: Response provided both to ABIA and ABLN ]
In article <c4s9lm$kqb$2@blue.rahul.net>,
arromdee.DeleteThis@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>In article <20040404075335.22963.00000115.DeleteThis@mb-m22.aol.com>,
>Richard Ballard <rball84213.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote:
>
[RB comment: arromdee.DeleteThis@violet.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote:]
>>>We need to kill off a lot of velocity to get into the sun.
[RB comment: Richard Ballard <rball84213.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote:]
>>Just keep retroburning and steering. You are not attempting
>>to land on the Sun -- hit it hard.
>
>That will not work, unless you cancel the orbital velocity.
>You won't
>hit the sun by doing this.
This might be _unaffordable_ today from a fuel expenditure
standpoint, but given an affordable ion drive powered by the
ever increasing light density as the capsule approaches the
sun, I believe the concept is practical. It also completely
incinerates the nuclear waste -- a nice feature.
"All Rights Reserved"?
If I 'right' must I reserve?
I got no problems.
Other people got problems.
00: 21 _8 02 03/35 06 09
Richard Ballard MSEE CNA4 KD0AZ
--
Consultant specializing in computer networks, imaging & security
Listed as rjballard in "Friends & Favorites" at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.amazon.com" target="_blank">www.amazon.com</a>
Last book review: "Guerrilla Television" by Michael Shamberg<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Don't Get Sore ... |
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