Question about Known Space

FireBox wrote:
 > Hello. I listened to an audio book of 'Ringworld' and then I bought the book
 > Playgrounds of the Mind where I read 'The Borderland of Sol'
 > And I was under the impression that Louis Wu was the first person to make
 > contact with aliens, yet in Borderland Niven talks about Carlos Wu and his
 > son Louis (who i assume is Louis from Ringworld) but they already talking
 > about Puppeteers and stuff. But I thought Louis was the first to make alien
 > contact? Can anyone set me straight about this? Thanks
 >
 >

Louis Wu was the first human to make contact with the Trinocs. I don't
remember where that is - it might well be a recollection in Ringworld.

First Contact [*] was in 'The Warriors' when a Kzin craft attacked a
laser driven slowboat. The Warriors is in The Shape of Space and Tales
of Known Space.

Next contact would be with the Oustsiders who sold a Q1 hyperdrive to
one of the human colonies (Wunderland IIRC).

Both of those were *well* before the time of Beowulf Shaeffer / Carlos Wu.

* If you want to be picky I suppose you could say that as the
Bandersnatchi are intelligent then when First Contact was when men
entered the high pressure areas on jinx.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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FireBox wrote:
 > Hello. I listened to an audio book of 'Ringworld' and then I bought the book
 > Playgrounds of the Mind where I read 'The Borderland of Sol'
 > And I was under the impression that Louis Wu was the first person to make
 > contact with aliens, yet in Borderland Niven talks about Carlos Wu and his
 > son Louis (who i assume is Louis from Ringworld) but they already talking
 > about Puppeteers and stuff. But I thought Louis was the first to make alien
 > contact? Can anyone set me straight about this? Thanks

I had posted this before my reply to Darren but I don't think it
actually went anywhere.

-----------------------------------

Louis Wu was the first human to make contact with the Trinocs. I don't
remember where that is - it might well be a recollection in Ringworld.

First Contact [*] was in 'The Warriors' when a Kzin craft attacked a
laser driven slowboat. The Warriors is in The Shape of Space and Tales
of Known Space.

Next contact would be with the Oustsiders who sold a Q1 hyperdrive to
one of the human colonies (Wunderland IIRC).

Both of those were *well* before the time of Beowulf Shaeffer / Carlos Wu.

* If you want to be picky I suppose you could say that as the
Bandersnatchi are intelligent then when First Contact was when men
entered the high pressure areas on jinx.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Darren J Longhorn wrote:
 > On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:26:08 GMT, "FireBox" <none DeleteThis @none.com> wrote:
 >
 >
  >>Hello. I listened to an audio book of 'Ringworld' and then I bought the book
  >>Playgrounds of the Mind where I read 'The Borderland of Sol'
  >>And I was under the impression that Louis Wu was the first person to make
  >>contact with aliens, yet in Borderland Niven talks about Carlos Wu and his
  >>son Louis (who i assume is Louis from Ringworld) but they already talking
  >>about Puppeteers and stuff. But I thought Louis was the first to make alien
  >>contact? Can anyone set me straight about this? Thanks
 >
 >
 > Louis Wu wasn't the first person to make contact with aliens. Though
 > he was the first person to make contact with a particular alien race
 > in "There is a tide". I think they might have been the Trinocs, but I
 > can't remember.

It is the Trinocs and it is in 'There is a Tide'. There is a Tide is in
A Hole in Space.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 10:35:28 +0000 (UTC), Stephen Osborn
<stephen.osborn.DeleteThis@btinternet.com> wrote:

 >* If you want to be picky I suppose you could say that as the
 >Bandersnatchi are intelligent then when First Contact was when men
 >entered the high pressure areas on jinx.

I think the Martians feature in known space before that? And the "Sea
Statue" that turned out to be a Slaver. You might also consider
Dolphins to be aliens, though not of the extra-terrestrial variety <!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:26:08 +0000, FireBox wrote:

 > Hello. I listened to an audio book of 'Ringworld' and then I bought the book
 > Playgrounds of the Mind where I read 'The Borderland of Sol'
 > And I was under the impression that Louis Wu was the first person to make
 > contact with aliens, yet in Borderland Niven talks about Carlos Wu and his
 > son Louis (who i assume is Louis from Ringworld) but they already talking
 > about Puppeteers and stuff. But I thought Louis was the first to make alien
 > contact? Can anyone set me straight about this? Thanks

Nope, Louis Wu was not the first. Who was the first?
Within the Know Space cannon, it probably was Larry Greenberg in
"The World of Ptavvs" (after all Kzanol was an alien).<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Darren J Longhorn wrote:
 > On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 10:35:28 +0000 (UTC), Stephen Osborn
 > <stephen.osborn RemoveThis @btinternet.com> wrote:
 >
 >
  >>* If you want to be picky I suppose you could say that as the
  >>Bandersnatchi are intelligent then when First Contact was when men
  >>entered the high pressure areas on jinx.
 >
 >
 > I think the Martians feature in known space before that? And the "Sea
 > Statue" that turned out to be a Slaver. You might also consider
 > Dolphins to be aliens, though not of the extra-terrestrial variety

You are right (sorry, am I allowed to say that on Usenet?).

In my copy of 'Tales of Known Space' there is a time line

The Martians appear in 'How the Heroes Die' - Known Space date 2040.
The slowboats are launched in the second half of the 21st century, so
contact with the Bandersnatchi after then.
The Sea Statue is 'revived' in 'The World of Ptavvs' - KSd 2106.
The Warriors is KSd 2360.
We Made It (not Wunderland) buys Q1 hyperdrive from the Outsiders in the
latter part of 25th century.
"Contact with Pierson's Puppeteers and other aliens, some as part of
Kzinti empire" is in 26th century.
'Neutron Star' is in 2640 so 'The Borderland of Sol' is after then.
'There is a Tide' is in 2830.
'Ringworld' is in 2850.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question about Known Space 

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:06:03 +0000 (UTC), Stephen Osborn
<stephen.osborn RemoveThis @btinternet.com> wrote:

 >Darren J Longhorn wrote:
  >> I think the Martians feature in known space before that? And the "Sea
  >> Statue" that turned out to be a Slaver. You might also consider
  >> Dolphins to be aliens, though not of the extra-terrestrial variety
 >
 >You are right (sorry, am I allowed to say that on Usenet?).

Shhhh. Let's not tell anyone.

 >In my copy of 'Tales of Known Space' there is a time line

Yeah, that's where I looked it up to check before I posted <!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question about Known Space 

In article <kUGKd.10728$2e7.8452@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>,
FireBox <none.TakeThisOut@none.com> wrote:
 >Hello. I listened to an audio book of 'Ringworld' and then I bought the book
 >Playgrounds of the Mind where I read 'The Borderland of Sol'
 >And I was under the impression that Louis Wu was the first person to make
 >contact with aliens, yet in Borderland Niven talks about Carlos Wu and his
 >son Louis (who i assume is Louis from Ringworld) but they already talking
 >about Puppeteers and stuff. But I thought Louis was the first to make alien
 >contact? Can anyone set me straight about this? Thanks
 >
  First contact was between humans and Martians in the late
20th/early 21st century. It went very badly. The two sides ignored
each other until a Pak committed genocide on the Martians in the
22nd Century.

  Next, humans encounter Bandersnatch, multi-tonne snot globs
whose idea of fun is being hunted. This would have been in the 2090s.

  Sometime in the 22nd, humans met Slavers. Well, one Slaver.
This too went very badly but technically they didn't kill the Slaver,
just used him as a museum display.

  A long period of peace followed.

  Humans then encountered Kzin. This went badly as the Kzin were
more advanced and warlike.

  Humans then encountered Outsiders. You'd think by this point
the humans, having been attacked by 3 out of 4 aliens, would have
reacted violently but that didn't happen. The Outsiders sold us
hyperdrive and humans wupped the Kzin. Not sure when this happens.
24th century?

  We then meet in rapid order Puppeteers and Kdalyno [sp]. The
Grogs turn up as well.

  Some centuries pass and Louis meets the Trinocs.

 

--
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/" target="_blank">http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.marryanamerican.ca" target="_blank">http://www.marryanamerican.ca</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll" target="_blank">http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 16:02:25 +0000 (UTC), jdnicoll.RemoveThis@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:

  > First contact was between humans and Martians in the late
 >20th/early 21st century. It went very badly. The two sides ignored
 >each other until a Pak committed genocide on the Martians in the
 >22nd Century.

But what about the "super fluid blob" in "Wait it out"? Alien, though
perhaps not sentient.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question about Known Space 

In article <pan.2005.01.29.10.21.39.241253 RemoveThis @wellsted.org.uk>, Ron Wellsted
wrote:
  > > about Puppeteers and stuff. But I thought Louis was the first to make alien
  > > contact? Can anyone set me straight about this? Thanks
 >
 > Nope, Louis Wu was not the first. Who was the first?
 > Within the Know Space cannon, it probably was Larry Greenberg in
 > "The World of Ptavvs" (after all Kzanol was an alien).
 >
Nope.
At around the same time that Larry was being introduced to the (frozen)
Sea Statue, the pictures of the Frumious Bandersnatch were coming in from
Sirius colony. So the Jinxians had met the Bandersnatchii some time before,
even though it took Larry(-post Kzanol) to recognise the Bandersnatchii tracks
as writing.
But the Martian encounters trump this by a century or so, and perhaps
the events of Protector too. And 'The Colonel's Tiger' is interesting too.

--
Aidan Karley,
Aberdeen, Scotland,
Location: 57°10'11" N, 02°08'43" W (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question about Known Space 

In article <kUGKd.10728$2e7.8452@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>, FireBox
wrote:
 > But I thought Louis was the first to make alien
 > contact? Can anyone set me straight about this? Thanks
 >
I think the comment was that "Louis was the only person *alive*
who had made First Contact with an alien species". That makes the
previous first contact more than a generation previously.
(I don't have my Niven collection to hand. E&OE.)

--
Aidan Karley,
Aberdeen, Scotland,
Location: 57°10'11" N, 02°08'43" W (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question about Known Space 

Oh ok, well now I'm reading Becalmed in Hell. Larry Niven is pretty fun to
read and I wanna get Lucifers Hammer after reading the excerpt in
Playgrounds of the Mind. Thanks for the replies

"Aidan Karley" <aidan.TakeThisOut@mynameplus1.demon.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
news:VA.00000518.49a0417a@mynameplus1.demon.co.uk.invalid...
 > In article <kUGKd.10728$2e7.8452@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>, FireBox
 > wrote:
  > > But I thought Louis was the first to make alien
  > > contact? Can anyone set me straight about this? Thanks
  > >
 > I think the comment was that "Louis was the only person *alive*
 > who had made First Contact with an alien species". That makes the
 > previous first contact more than a generation previously.
 > (I don't have my Niven collection to hand. E&OE.)
 >
 > --
 > Aidan Karley,
 > Aberdeen, Scotland,
 > Location: 57°10'11" N, 02°08'43" W (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Question about Known Space 

Aidan Karley wrote:
 > In article <pan.2005.01.29.10.21.39.241253.RemoveThis@wellsted.org.uk>, Ron Wellsted
 > wrote:
 >
   >>>about Puppeteers and stuff. But I thought Louis was the first to make alien
   >>>contact? Can anyone set me straight about this? Thanks
  >>
  >>Nope, Louis Wu was not the first. Who was the first?
  >>Within the Know Space cannon, it probably was Larry Greenberg in
  >>"The World of Ptavvs" (after all Kzanol was an alien).
  >>
 >
 > Nope.
 > At around the same time that Larry was being introduced to the (frozen)
 > Sea Statue, the pictures of the Frumious Bandersnatch were coming in from
 > Sirius colony. So the Jinxians had met the Bandersnatchii some time before,
 > even though it took Larry(-post Kzanol) to recognise the Bandersnatchii tracks
 > as writing.
 > But the Martian encounters trump this by a century or so, and perhaps
 > the events of Protector too. And 'The Colonel's Tiger' is interesting too.

The Pak are related to humans so I don't think you can count them as aliens.

I recall a conversation (but have no idea what story it is in) where
there is a discussion about the first aliens that humans met [*] and one
of the characters dismisses the Thrint as the Sea Statue was dug up on
Earth and the Pak as they are related to humans. IIRC the Martians are
not mentioned.

* or maybe whether humans have yet met aliens.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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