Speaking of Orwell fans of the subtler kind

georgeorwell.RemoveThis@email.com wrote:
> ...I wonder if anyone can beat this: I just bought a 1944 edition of
> *Burma Surgeon* by Gordon Seagrave. Lots of pictures, a big map of
> Burma, a hilarious chapter called 'The Plague' in which the good Dr.
> Seagrave contracts the bubonic plague, and even some musical notation
> for an old Karen song. Is it good? Nga m'thi, nga m'thi...
>
> Here's a sample:
>
> "The Nagas travel in groups from the same village, keeping step as
> they walk in single file. At every step one or another lets out a
> grunt, each grunt in a different key, up and down the line until each
> has had his grunt, and the leader begins again. It makes a weird tune
> something like this:
> Leader Unnhh
> No. 7 Hump
> No. 3 Ugh
> No. 8 Heep
> No. 2 Hic
> No. 5 Hah
> No. 6 Ho
> Nos. 4 & 9 Hay"
>

Probably sounds less funny in Karen.

>
> I'd take it over *Kiss My Fist* any day.

Indeed. Feh.

>
> Heep,
> B.
>

OK, then, what are *The House of Elrig* and *Ogilvy on Advertising*
doing on my Orwelliana shelf? (No Googling.)

Huius huius huius,
/M
 >> Stay informed about: Speaking of Orwell fans of the subtler kind 

<georgeorwell DeleteThis @email.com> wrote in message
news:1181454759.330564.236440@r19g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> ...I wonder if anyone can beat this: I just bought a 1944 edition of
> *Burma Surgeon* by Gordon Seagrave. Lots of pictures, a big map of
> Burma, a hilarious chapter called 'The Plague' in which the good Dr.
> Seagrave contracts the bubonic plague, and even some musical notation
> for an old Karen song. Is it good? Nga m'thi, nga m'thi...
>
> Here's a sample:
>
> "The Nagas travel in groups from the same village, keeping step as
> they walk in single file. At every step one or another lets out a
> grunt, each grunt in a different key, up and down the line until each
> has had his grunt, and the leader begins again. It makes a weird tune
> something like this:
> Leader Unnhh
> No. 7 Hump
> No. 3 Ugh
> No. 8 Heep
> No. 2 Hic
> No. 5 Hah
> No. 6 Ho
> Nos. 4 & 9 Hay"
>

RACIST!

ROBBIE
 >> Stay informed about: Speaking of Orwell fans of the subtler kind 

On 10 juin, 04:59, Nigee <aspidistra... RemoveThis @yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 10 Jun, 06:52, georgeorw... RemoveThis @email.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > ...I wonder if anyone can beat this: I just bought a 1944 edition of
> > *Burma Surgeon* by Gordon Seagrave. Lots of pictures, a big map of
> > Burma, a hilarious chapter called 'The Plague' in which the good Dr.
> > Seagrave contracts the bubonic plague, and even some musical notation
> > for an old Karen song. Is it good? Nga m'thi, nga m'thi...
>
> > Here's a sample:
>
> > "The Nagas travel in groups from the same village, keeping step as
> > they walk in single file. At every step one or another lets out a
> > grunt, each grunt in a different key, up and down the line until each
> > has had his grunt, and the leader begins again. It makes a weird tune
> > something like this:
> > Leader Unnhh
> > No. 7 Hump
> > No. 3 Ugh
> > No. 8 Heep
> > No. 2 Hic
> > No. 5 Hah
> > No. 6 Ho
> > Nos. 4 & 9 Hay"
>
> > I'd take it over *Kiss My Fist* any day.
>
> > Heep,
> > B.
>
> There are a number of references to Seagrave in 'Burma: The Forgotten
> War' by Jon Latimer.
>
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Burma-Forgotten-War-Jon-Latimer/dp/0719565766
>
> pp 79-80
> "For the retreating Chinese there was little chance of the wounded
> receiving the care and attention that Allied troops expected. 'There
> were no stretcher parties or ambulances to take them back to the
> dressing station. They had to drag themselves along the road and they
> passed us without a whimper or a plea for help', recalled George
> Rodger. They were 'wandering wrecks of humanity battered and torn by
> a war that few of them knew why they were fighting. Only their stoic
> endurance drove them on, for with such loss of blood the strength of
> their bodies had already gone.' Fortunately there was Dr Gordon
> Seagrave, a fourth-generation American medical missionary, and his
> twelve Shan nurses. His dressing-station at Pyinmana was set in an
> attratcive stucco house surrounded by purple bougainvillea, but inside
> was a charnal house: the floor and unroofed porch were littered with
> Chinese wounded, men who died when the nurses's backs were turned, men
> who wanted to die. Dominating everything was Seagrave himself,
> constantly working through a week of sleepless nights , learning how
> to operate on two patients at once, administering chloroform at the
> same time as amputating a gangrenous limb. Paul Geren, another
> American missionary from Judson College in Rangoon, who drove an
> ambulance and assisted Seagrave, recorded that:
>
> The Chinese are callous to their own suffering. Their expectation is
> to suffer, and no evil thing comes as a surprise... This splendid
> courage shows short, on the other end in the same callousness to the
> sufferings of others. The Chinese soldiers do not jump to help a
> wounded man out of the ambulance, but wait to see what he can
> accomplish for himself."
>
> Hump,
> N- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -
>
> - Afficher le texte des messages précédents -

Thanks for the excerpt and link, very interesting. Burma: The
Forgotten War is a more scholarly work than Burma Sturgeon, which is
sort of a memoir, full of curious and interesting little anecdotes.
Orwell gave it a good review (June 11, 1944) and he begans by saying
that the Burma campaign of 1942 had not been well documented. Even
today it seems like there isn't a whole lot of books written about the
Burma War. Well I see it's not from lack of resources - the review on
Amazon mentions the Burma Campaign Memorial Library in London.

Btw, the World at War episode on Burma is very good, and can be seen
here:
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=F5A427AD78B64582

It was your turn to say 'Hah' and now we're all out of step.

B.
 >> Stay informed about: Speaking of Orwell fans of the subtler kind 

On 10 juin, 00:14, Martha Bridegam <bride....RemoveThis@pacbell.net> wrote:
> georgeorw....RemoveThis@email.com wrote:
> > ...I wonder if anyone can beat this: I just bought a 1944 edition of
> > *Burma Surgeon* by Gordon Seagrave. Lots of pictures, a big map of
> > Burma, a hilarious chapter called 'The Plague' in which the good Dr.
> > Seagrave contracts the bubonic plague, and even some musical notation
> > for an old Karen song. Is it good? Nga m'thi, nga m'thi...
>
> > Here's a sample:
>
> > "The Nagas travel in groups from the same village, keeping step as
> > they walk in single file. At every step one or another lets out a
> > grunt, each grunt in a different key, up and down the line until each
> > has had his grunt, and the leader begins again. It makes a weird tune
> > something like this:
> > Leader Unnhh
> > No. 7 Hump
> > No. 3 Ugh
> > No. 8 Heep
> > No. 2 Hic
> > No. 5 Hah
> > No. 6 Ho
> > Nos. 4 & 9 Hay"
>
> Probably sounds less funny in Karen.
>
>
>
> > I'd take it over *Kiss My Fist* any day.
>
> Indeed. Feh.
>
>
>
> > Heep,
> > B.
>
> OK, then, what are *The House of Elrig* and *Ogilvy on Advertising*
> doing on my Orwelliana shelf? (No Googling.)
>
> Huius huius huius,
> /M- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -
>
> - Afficher le texte des messages précédents -

hmmm, I would need to look these up. Ogilvy was a name in 1984...?
Before you take the prize though, I'd better warn you that I have a
lovely little old book by Frederic W. Farrar.

B.
 >> Stay informed about: Speaking of Orwell fans of the subtler kind 

On 10 Jun, 20:11, georgeorw....DeleteThis@email.com wrote:
> On 10 juin, 04:59, Nigee <aspidistra....DeleteThis@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 10 Jun, 06:52, georgeorw....DeleteThis@email.com wrote:
>
> > > ...I wonder if anyone can beat this: I just bought a 1944 edition of
> > > *Burma Surgeon* by Gordon Seagrave. Lots of pictures, a big map of
> > > Burma, a hilarious chapter called 'The Plague' in which the good Dr.
> > > Seagrave contracts the bubonic plague, and even some musical notation
> > > for an old Karen song. Is it good? Nga m'thi, nga m'thi...
>
> > > Here's a sample:
>
> > > "The Nagas travel in groups from the same village, keeping step as
> > > they walk in single file. At every step one or another lets out a
> > > grunt, each grunt in a different key, up and down the line until each
> > > has had his grunt, and the leader begins again. It makes a weird tune
> > > something like this:
> > > Leader Unnhh
> > > No. 7 Hump
> > > No. 3 Ugh
> > > No. 8 Heep
> > > No. 2 Hic
> > > No. 5 Hah
> > > No. 6 Ho
> > > Nos. 4 & 9 Hay"
>
> > > I'd take it over *Kiss My Fist* any day.
>
> > > Heep,
> > > B.
>
> > There are a number of references to Seagrave in 'Burma: The Forgotten
> > War' by Jon Latimer.
>
> >http://www.amazon.co.uk/Burma-Forgotten-War-Jon-Latimer/dp/0719565766
>
> > pp 79-80
> > "For the retreating Chinese there was little chance of the wounded
> > receiving the care and attention that Allied troops expected. 'There
> > were no stretcher parties or ambulances to take them back to the
> > dressing station. They had to drag themselves along the road and they
> > passed us without a whimper or a plea for help', recalled George
> > Rodger. They were 'wandering wrecks of humanity battered and torn by
> > a war that few of them knew why they were fighting. Only their stoic
> > endurance drove them on, for with such loss of blood the strength of
> > their bodies had already gone.' Fortunately there was Dr Gordon
> > Seagrave, a fourth-generation American medical missionary, and his
> > twelve Shan nurses. His dressing-station at Pyinmana was set in an
> > attratcive stucco house surrounded by purple bougainvillea, but inside
> > was a charnal house: the floor and unroofed porch were littered with
> > Chinese wounded, men who died when the nurses's backs were turned, men
> > who wanted to die. Dominating everything was Seagrave himself,
> > constantly working through a week of sleepless nights , learning how
> > to operate on two patients at once, administering chloroform at the
> > same time as amputating a gangrenous limb. Paul Geren, another
> > American missionary from Judson College in Rangoon, who drove an
> > ambulance and assisted Seagrave, recorded that:
>
> > The Chinese are callous to their own suffering. Their expectation is
> > to suffer, and no evil thing comes as a surprise... This splendid
> > courage shows short, on the other end in the same callousness to the
> > sufferings of others. The Chinese soldiers do not jump to help a
> > wounded man out of the ambulance, but wait to see what he can
> > accomplish for himself."
>
> > Hump,
> > N- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -
>
> > - Afficher le texte des messages précédents -
>
> Thanks for the excerpt and link, very interesting. Burma: The
> Forgotten War is a more scholarly work than Burma Sturgeon, which is
> sort of a memoir, full of curious and interesting little anecdotes.
> Orwell gave it a good review (June 11, 1944) and he begans by saying
> that the Burma campaign of 1942 had not been well documented. Even
> today it seems like there isn't a whole lot of books written about the
> Burma War. Well I see it's not from lack of resources - the review on
> Amazon mentions the Burma Campaign Memorial Library in London.
>
> Btw, the World at War episode on Burma is very good, and can be seen
> here:http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=F5A427AD78B64582
>
> It was your turn to say 'Hah' and now we're all out of step.
>
> B.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

These Burma Sturgeon thrive in the muddy waters of the Irrawadday
then?

(Hah!)

I didn't know too much about the Burma Campaign other than World at
War. And even that seems to tail off after Imphal and Kohima. The
Latimer book is good (maps apart). It was in many ways a sideshow and
very low on the scale of Allied priorities for resources and so the
achivement of Slim's 14th Army in beating the Japanese and
reconquering the country deserves more recognition that it has had.

p.378. "Slim noted in a Press Club lecture in 1946 that Fourteenth
Army now had a ration strength of 750,000 - the population of a great
city - scattered over an area as large as Poland and with the poorest
communications. 'Before we could get on with our real business -
fighting - we had to feed, clothe, house, and all the time we were
doing it, equip, doctor, police, pay and transport by road, ship, rail
and air all of those men. All that and jungle too!' It would mean
improvisation. 'No boats? We'll build 'em! No vegetables, we'll
grow 'em! No eggs? Duck farms!... Malaria, we'll stop it! Medium
guns bursting? Saw three feet off the barrel and go on shooting!
Their motto, "God helps those who help themselves."'

It is interesting too on the role that the Burma campaign played in
India's emerging sense of nationhood.

p.409 " As their cars burst down the road towards Rangoon past
bloated Japanese corpses, Fourteenth Army represented an India that
was takign possession of her own future. 'The feats of valour,
privation, endurance and the capacity to fight even for their foreign
master', wrote Anil Chandra, 'was the inheritance of the Indian Army
flowing down decade after decade.' It had grown to stand now on the
verge of independence, 'proud, and incredibly generous to us, on these
final battlefields of the Burmese plain', thought John Masters. It
was all summed up in the voice of an Indian colonel of artillery who,
'bending close to an English colonel over a map, straightened and said
with a smile, "Ok, George. Thanks. I've got it. We'll take over all
tasks at 1800. What about a beer?""
 >> Stay informed about: Speaking of Orwell fans of the subtler kind 

georgeorwell.TakeThisOut@email.com wrote:
> On 10 juin, 00:14, Martha Bridegam <bride....TakeThisOut@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> georgeorw....TakeThisOut@email.com wrote:
>>> ...I wonder if anyone can beat this: I just bought a 1944 edition of
>>> *Burma Surgeon* by Gordon Seagrave. Lots of pictures, a big map of
>>> Burma, a hilarious chapter called 'The Plague' in which the good Dr.
>>> Seagrave contracts the bubonic plague, and even some musical notation
>>> for an old Karen song. Is it good? Nga m'thi, nga m'thi...
>>> Here's a sample:
>>> "The Nagas travel in groups from the same village, keeping step as
>>> they walk in single file. At every step one or another lets out a
>>> grunt, each grunt in a different key, up and down the line until each
>>> has had his grunt, and the leader begins again. It makes a weird tune
>>> something like this:
>>> Leader Unnhh
>>> No. 7 Hump
>>> No. 3 Ugh
>>> No. 8 Heep
>>> No. 2 Hic
>>> No. 5 Hah
>>> No. 6 Ho
>>> Nos. 4 & 9 Hay"
>> Probably sounds less funny in Karen.
>>
>>
>>
>>> I'd take it over *Kiss My Fist* any day.
>> Indeed. Feh.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Heep,
>>> B.
>> OK, then, what are *The House of Elrig* and *Ogilvy on Advertising*
>> doing on my Orwelliana shelf? (No Googling.)
>>
>> Huius huius huius,
>> /M- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -
>>
>> - Afficher le texte des messages précédents -
>
> hmmm, I would need to look these up. Ogilvy was a name in 1984...?
> Before you take the prize though, I'd better warn you that I have a
> lovely little old book by Frederic W. Farrar.
>
> B.
>
>

David Ogilvy and Gavin Maxwell were fellow survivors of St. Cyprian's
who wrote about it later. Maxwell's school memoir is part of the book I
mentioned. I don't know where Ogilvy wrote about St. C's but he's quoted
on it in some of the GO biographies. I have *Ogilvy on Advertising* on
the shelf because it's entertaining to consider that one of the founders
of modern advertising had early influences in common with the author of
*1984*.

I admit having had to look up Rev. Farrar. Turns out the work in
question is online at
http://www.athelstane.co.uk/fwfarrar/ericlitl/index.htm . But an
original? That's nice. Puts my poor little edition of Stalky & Co. to shame.

/M
 >> Stay informed about: Speaking of Orwell fans of the subtler kind 

On 10 juin, 13:46, Nigee <aspidistra... DeleteThis @yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 10 Jun, 20:11, georgeorw... DeleteThis @email.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 10 juin, 04:59, Nigee <aspidistra... DeleteThis @yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > On 10 Jun, 06:52, georgeorw... DeleteThis @email.com wrote:
>
> > > > ...I wonder if anyone can beat this: I just bought a 1944 edition of
> > > > *Burma Surgeon* by Gordon Seagrave. Lots of pictures, a big map of
> > > > Burma, a hilarious chapter called 'The Plague' in which the good Dr.
> > > > Seagrave contracts the bubonic plague, and even some musical notation
> > > > for an old Karen song. Is it good? Nga m'thi, nga m'thi...
>
> > > > Here's a sample:
>
> > > > "The Nagas travel in groups from the same village, keeping step as
> > > > they walk in single file. At every step one or another lets out a
> > > > grunt, each grunt in a different key, up and down the line until each
> > > > has had his grunt, and the leader begins again. It makes a weird tune
> > > > something like this:
> > > > Leader Unnhh
> > > > No. 7 Hump
> > > > No. 3 Ugh
> > > > No. 8 Heep
> > > > No. 2 Hic
> > > > No. 5 Hah
> > > > No. 6 Ho
> > > > Nos. 4 & 9 Hay"
>
> > > > I'd take it over *Kiss My Fist* any day.
>
> > > > Heep,
> > > > B.
>
> > > There are a number of references to Seagrave in 'Burma: The Forgotten
> > > War' by Jon Latimer.
>
> > >http://www.amazon.co.uk/Burma-Forgotten-War-Jon-Latimer/dp/0719565766
>
> > > pp 79-80
> > > "For the retreating Chinese there was little chance of the wounded
> > > receiving the care and attention that Allied troops expected. 'There
> > > were no stretcher parties or ambulances to take them back to the
> > > dressing station. They had to drag themselves along the road and they
> > > passed us without a whimper or a plea for help', recalled George
> > > Rodger. They were 'wandering wrecks of humanity battered and torn by
> > > a war that few of them knew why they were fighting. Only their stoic
> > > endurance drove them on, for with such loss of blood the strength of
> > > their bodies had already gone.' Fortunately there was Dr Gordon
> > > Seagrave, a fourth-generation American medical missionary, and his
> > > twelve Shan nurses. His dressing-station at Pyinmana was set in an
> > > attratcive stucco house surrounded by purple bougainvillea, but inside
> > > was a charnal house: the floor and unroofed porch were littered with
> > > Chinese wounded, men who died when the nurses's backs were turned, men
> > > who wanted to die. Dominating everything was Seagrave himself,
> > > constantly working through a week of sleepless nights , learning how
> > > to operate on two patients at once, administering chloroform at the
> > > same time as amputating a gangrenous limb. Paul Geren, another
> > > American missionary from Judson College in Rangoon, who drove an
> > > ambulance and assisted Seagrave, recorded that:
>
> > > The Chinese are callous to their own suffering. Their expectation is
> > > to suffer, and no evil thing comes as a surprise... This splendid
> > > courage shows short, on the other end in the same callousness to the
> > > sufferings of others. The Chinese soldiers do not jump to help a
> > > wounded man out of the ambulance, but wait to see what he can
> > > accomplish for himself."
>
> > > Hump,
> > > N- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -
>
> > > - Afficher le texte des messages précédents -
>
> > Thanks for the excerpt and link, very interesting. Burma: The
> > Forgotten War is a more scholarly work than Burma Sturgeon, which is
> > sort of a memoir, full of curious and interesting little anecdotes.
> > Orwell gave it a good review (June 11, 1944) and he begans by saying
> > that the Burma campaign of 1942 had not been well documented. Even
> > today it seems like there isn't a whole lot of books written about the
> > Burma War. Well I see it's not from lack of resources - the review on
> > Amazon mentions the Burma Campaign Memorial Library in London.
>
> > Btw, the World at War episode on Burma is very good, and can be seen
> > here:http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=F5A427AD78B64582
>
> > It was your turn to say 'Hah' and now we're all out of step.
>
> > B.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> These Burma Sturgeon thrive in the muddy waters of the Irrawadday
> then?
>
> (Hah!)
>
> I didn't know too much about the Burma Campaign other than World at
> War. And even that seems to tail off after Imphal and Kohima. The
> Latimer book is good (maps apart). It was in many ways a sideshow and
> very low on the scale of Allied priorities for resources and so the
> achivement of Slim's 14th Army in beating the Japanese and
> reconquering the country deserves more recognition that it has had.
>
> p.378. "Slim noted in a Press Club lecture in 1946 that Fourteenth
> Army now had a ration strength of 750,000 - the population of a great
> city - scattered over an area as large as Poland and with the poorest
> communications. 'Before we could get on with our real business -
> fighting - we had to feed, clothe, house, and all the time we were
> doing it, equip, doctor, police, pay and transport by road, ship, rail
> and air all of those men. All that and jungle too!' It would mean
> improvisation. 'No boats? We'll build 'em! No vegetables, we'll
> grow 'em! No eggs? Duck farms!... Malaria, we'll stop it! Medium
> guns bursting? Saw three feet off the barrel and go on shooting!
> Their motto, "God helps those who help themselves."'
>
> It is interesting too on the role that the Burma campaign played in
> India's emerging sense of nationhood.
>
> p.409 " As their cars burst down the road towards Rangoon past
> bloated Japanese corpses, Fourteenth Army represented an India that
> was takign possession of her own future. 'The feats of valour,
> privation, endurance and the capacity to fight even for their foreign
> master', wrote Anil Chandra, 'was the inheritance of the Indian Army
> flowing down decade after decade.' It had grown to stand now on the
> verge of independence, 'proud, and incredibly generous to us, on these
> final battlefields of the Burmese plain', thought John Masters. It
> was all summed up in the voice of an Indian colonel of artillery who,
> 'bending close to an English colonel over a map, straightened and said
> with a smile, "Ok, George. Thanks. I've got it. We'll take over all
> tasks at 1800. What about a beer?""- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -
>
> - Afficher le texte des messages précédents -

yes the Burma Sturgeon thrive in the muddy waters of the Irrawadday.
Ho. Ho. Ho.
I hope you were laughing *with* me.

General William Slim and the 14th army were amazing. Thanks for more
from the book!

B.
 >> Stay informed about: Speaking of Orwell fans of the subtler kind 

On 10 juin, 15:42, Martha Bridegam <bride....RemoveThis@pacbell.net> wrote:
> georgeorw....RemoveThis@email.com wrote:
> > On 10 juin, 00:14, Martha Bridegam <bride....RemoveThis@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >> georgeorw....RemoveThis@email.com wrote:
> >>> ...I wonder if anyone can beat this: I just bought a 1944 edition of
> >>> *Burma Surgeon* by Gordon Seagrave. Lots of pictures, a big map of
> >>> Burma, a hilarious chapter called 'The Plague' in which the good Dr.
> >>> Seagrave contracts the bubonic plague, and even some musical notation
> >>> for an old Karen song. Is it good? Nga m'thi, nga m'thi...
> >>> Here's a sample:
> >>> "The Nagas travel in groups from the same village, keeping step as
> >>> they walk in single file. At every step one or another lets out a
> >>> grunt, each grunt in a different key, up and down the line until each
> >>> has had his grunt, and the leader begins again. It makes a weird tune
> >>> something like this:
> >>> Leader Unnhh
> >>> No. 7 Hump
> >>> No. 3 Ugh
> >>> No. 8 Heep
> >>> No. 2 Hic
> >>> No. 5 Hah
> >>> No. 6 Ho
> >>> Nos. 4 & 9 Hay"
> >> Probably sounds less funny in Karen.
>
> >>> I'd take it over *Kiss My Fist* any day.
> >> Indeed. Feh.
>
> >>> Heep,
> >>> B.
> >> OK, then, what are *The House of Elrig* and *Ogilvy on Advertising*
> >> doing on my Orwelliana shelf? (No Googling.)
>
> >> Huius huius huius,
> >> /M- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -
>
> >> - Afficher le texte des messages précédents -
>
> > hmmm, I would need to look these up. Ogilvy was a name in 1984...?
> > Before you take the prize though, I'd better warn you that I have a
> > lovely little old book by Frederic W. Farrar.
>
> > B.
>
> David Ogilvy and Gavin Maxwell were fellow survivors of St. Cyprian's
> who wrote about it later. Maxwell's school memoir is part of the book I
> mentioned. I don't know where Ogilvy wrote about St. C's but he's quoted
> on it in some of the GO biographies. I have *Ogilvy on Advertising* on
> the shelf because it's entertaining to consider that one of the founders
> of modern advertising had early influences in common with the author of
> *1984*.
>
> I admit having had to look up Rev. Farrar. Turns out the work in
> question is online athttp://www.athelstane.co.uk/fwfarrar/ericlitl/index.htm. But an
> original? That's nice. Puts my poor little edition of Stalky & Co. to shame.
>
> /M- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -
>
> - Afficher le texte des messages précédents -

*Ogilvy on Advertising* starts with instructions about rattling a
stick in a swill bucket?

*Eric* has a nice art nouveau cover, which I scanned a few years ago:
http://groups.msn.com/EricArthurBlair/cici.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=453

Orwell hated the name Eric and this book: yeah I'm the true cause of
that grave rolling he apparently is always doing.

B.
 >> Stay informed about: Speaking of Orwell fans of the subtler kind 

georgeorwell.TakeThisOut@email.com wrote:
> On 10 juin, 15:42, Martha Bridegam <bride....TakeThisOut@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> georgeorw....TakeThisOut@email.com wrote:
>>> On 10 juin, 00:14, Martha Bridegam <bride....TakeThisOut@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>>> georgeorw....TakeThisOut@email.com wrote:
>>>>> ...I wonder if anyone can beat this: I just bought a 1944 edition of
>>>>> *Burma Surgeon* by Gordon Seagrave. Lots of pictures, a big map of
>>>>> Burma, a hilarious chapter called 'The Plague' in which the good Dr.
>>>>> Seagrave contracts the bubonic plague, and even some musical notation
>>>>> for an old Karen song. Is it good? Nga m'thi, nga m'thi...
>>>>> Here's a sample:
>>>>> "The Nagas travel in groups from the same village, keeping step as
>>>>> they walk in single file. At every step one or another lets out a
>>>>> grunt, each grunt in a different key, up and down the line until each
>>>>> has had his grunt, and the leader begins again. It makes a weird tune
>>>>> something like this:
>>>>> Leader Unnhh
>>>>> No. 7 Hump
>>>>> No. 3 Ugh
>>>>> No. 8 Heep
>>>>> No. 2 Hic
>>>>> No. 5 Hah
>>>>> No. 6 Ho
>>>>> Nos. 4 & 9 Hay"
>>>> Probably sounds less funny in Karen.
>>>>> I'd take it over *Kiss My Fist* any day.
>>>> Indeed. Feh.
>>>>> Heep,
>>>>> B.
>>>> OK, then, what are *The House of Elrig* and *Ogilvy on Advertising*
>>>> doing on my Orwelliana shelf? (No Googling.)
>>>> Huius huius huius,
>>>> /M- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -
>>>> - Afficher le texte des messages précédents -
>>> hmmm, I would need to look these up. Ogilvy was a name in 1984...?
>>> Before you take the prize though, I'd better warn you that I have a
>>> lovely little old book by Frederic W. Farrar.
>>> B.
>> David Ogilvy and Gavin Maxwell were fellow survivors of St. Cyprian's
>> who wrote about it later. Maxwell's school memoir is part of the book I
>> mentioned. I don't know where Ogilvy wrote about St. C's but he's quoted
>> on it in some of the GO biographies. I have *Ogilvy on Advertising* on
>> the shelf because it's entertaining to consider that one of the founders
>> of modern advertising had early influences in common with the author of
>> *1984*.
>>
>> I admit having had to look up Rev. Farrar. Turns out the work in
>> question is online athttp://www.athelstane.co.uk/fwfarrar/ericlitl/index.htm. But an
>> original? That's nice. Puts my poor little edition of Stalky & Co. to shame.
>>
>> /M- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -
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>> - Afficher le texte des messages précédents -
>
> *Ogilvy on Advertising* starts with instructions about rattling a
> stick in a swill bucket?
>
> *Eric* has a nice art nouveau cover, which I scanned a few years ago:
> http://groups.msn.com/EricArthurBlair/cici.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=453
>
> Orwell hated the name Eric and this book: yeah I'm the true cause of
> that grave rolling he apparently is always doing.
>
> B.
>

It starts like this:

"I do not regard advertising as entertainment or an art form, but as a
medium of information. When I write an advertisement, I don't want you
to tell me that you find it 'creative.' I want you to find it so
interesting that you *buy the product*. When Aeschines spoke, they said,
'How well he speaks.' But when Demothenes spoke, they said, 'Let us
march against Philip.'

In my *Confessions of an Advertising Man*, published in 1963, I told the
story of how Ogilvy & Mather came into existence, and set forth the
principles on which our early success had been based. What was then
little more than a creative boutique in New York has since become one of
the four biggest advertising agencies in the world, with 140 offices in
40 countries. Our principles seem to work.

But I am now so old that a French magazine lists me as the only survivor
among a group of men who, they aver, contributed to the Industrial
Revolution -- alongside Adam Smith, Edison, Karl Marx, Rockefeller, Ford
and Keynes. Does old age disqualify me from writing about advertising in
today's world? Or could it be that perspective helps a man to separate
the eternal verities of advertising from its passing fads?..."


There are some lovely advertising examples, e.g. "What you should know
about KLM and the careful, *reliable* Dutch before your next flight to
Paris, Rome, Amsterdam or 34 other cities in Europe." (Emphasis in
original.)


Mr. Comstock could have learned from bits of the advice.

"Naming your product
Finding *any* name which has not already been registered by another
company is infernally difficult. There are three kinds of names:

- Names of men and women -- like FORD, CAMPBELL and VEUVE CLICQUOT. They
are memorable, they are difficult to copy and they suggest that our
product is the invention of a human being.

- Meaningless names like KODAK, KOTEX and CAMEL. It takes many years and
millions of dollars to endow them with any sales appeal.

- Descriptive names like 3-IN-ONE OIL, BAND-AID and JANITOR IN A DRUM.
Such names start with sales appeal. But they are too specific to be used
for subsequent line-extensions.

You can use consumer research to find out whether a name says what you
think it says, whether it is easily pronounceable, whether it is
confused with existing names, and whether it is memorable.

Once I told a computer that I wanted a name for a new brand of coffee,
specifying that it had to begin with the letter M and contain no more
than seven characters. The computer spewed out hundreds of permutations,
and I was back where I started.

If it is important that the name appear as big as possible on a package,
choose a short one like TIDE, and not a long one like SCREAMING YELLOW
ZONKERS.

If you want to use the same name in foreign markets, make sure that it
does not have an obscene meaning in Turkish or any other language. There
have been some nasty accidents.

I have suggested names for dozens of new products, but have not yet had
one accepted. Good luck to you."

Hay,

/M
 >> Stay informed about: Speaking of Orwell fans of the subtler kind 

Martha Bridegam wrote:
.....[quoting Comrade Ogilvy]
> It starts like this:
>
> "I do not regard advertising as entertainment or an art form, but as a
> medium of information. When I write an advertisement, I don't want you
> to tell me that you find it 'creative.' I want you to find it so
> interesting that you *buy the product*. When Aeschines spoke, they said,
> 'How well he speaks.' But when Demothenes spoke, they said, 'Let us
> march against Philip.'


Demosthenes, I meant. I can spell, really, I swear I can.

Ugh,

/M
 >> Stay informed about: Speaking of Orwell fans of the subtler kind 

On 11 Jun, 05:13, georgeorw... RemoveThis @email.com wrote:
> On 10 juin, 13:46, Nigee <aspidistra... RemoveThis @yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 10 Jun, 20:11, georgeorw... RemoveThis @email.com wrote:
>
> > > On 10 juin, 04:59, Nigee <aspidistra... RemoveThis @yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > > On 10 Jun, 06:52, georgeorw... RemoveThis @email.com wrote:
>
> > > > > ...I wonder if anyone can beat this: I just bought a 1944 edition of
> > > > > *Burma Surgeon* by Gordon Seagrave. Lots of pictures, a big map of
> > > > > Burma, a hilarious chapter called 'The Plague' in which the good Dr.
> > > > > Seagrave contracts the bubonic plague, and even some musical notation
> > > > > for an old Karen song. Is it good? Nga m'thi, nga m'thi...
>
> > > > > Here's a sample:
>
> > > > > "The Nagas travel in groups from the same village, keeping step as
> > > > > they walk in single file. At every step one or another lets out a
> > > > > grunt, each grunt in a different key, up and down the line until each
> > > > > has had his grunt, and the leader begins again. It makes a weird tune
> > > > > something like this:
> > > > > Leader Unnhh
> > > > > No. 7 Hump
> > > > > No. 3 Ugh
> > > > > No. 8 Heep
> > > > > No. 2 Hic
> > > > > No. 5 Hah
> > > > > No. 6 Ho
> > > > > Nos. 4 & 9 Hay"
>
> > > > > I'd take it over *Kiss My Fist* any day.
>
> > > > > Heep,
> > > > > B.
>
> > > > There are a number of references to Seagrave in 'Burma: The Forgotten
> > > > War' by Jon Latimer.
>
> > > >http://www.amazon.co.uk/Burma-Forgotten-War-Jon-Latimer/dp/0719565766
>
> > > > pp 79-80
> > > > "For the retreating Chinese there was little chance of the wounded
> > > > receiving the care and attention that Allied troops expected. 'There
> > > > were no stretcher parties or ambulances to take them back to the
> > > > dressing station. They had to drag themselves along the road and they
> > > > passed us without a whimper or a plea for help', recalled George
> > > > Rodger. They were 'wandering wrecks of humanity battered and torn by
> > > > a war that few of them knew why they were fighting. Only their stoic
> > > > endurance drove them on, for with such loss of blood the strength of
> > > > their bodies had already gone.' Fortunately there was Dr Gordon
> > > > Seagrave, a fourth-generation American medical missionary, and his
> > > > twelve Shan nurses. His dressing-station at Pyinmana was set in an
> > > > attratcive stucco house surrounded by purple bougainvillea, but inside
> > > > was a charnal house: the floor and unroofed porch were littered with
> > > > Chinese wounded, men who died when the nurses's backs were turned, men
> > > > who wanted to die. Dominating everything was Seagrave himself,
> > > > constantly working through a week of sleepless nights , learning how
> > > > to operate on two patients at once, administering chloroform at the
> > > > same time as amputating a gangrenous limb. Paul Geren, another
> > > > American missionary from Judson College in Rangoon, who drove an
> > > > ambulance and assisted Seagrave, recorded that:
>
> > > > The Chinese are callous to their own suffering. Their expectation is
> > > > to suffer, and no evil thing comes as a surprise... This splendid
> > > > courage shows short, on the other end in the same callousness to the
> > > > sufferings of others. The Chinese soldiers do not jump to help a
> > > > wounded man out of the ambulance, but wait to see what he can
> > > > accomplish for himself."
>
> > > > Hump,
> > > > N- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -
>
> > > > - Afficher le texte des messages précédents -
>
> > > Thanks for the excerpt and link, very interesting. Burma: The
> > > Forgotten War is a more scholarly work than Burma Sturgeon, which is
> > > sort of a memoir, full of curious and interesting little anecdotes.
> > > Orwell gave it a good review (June 11, 1944) and he begans by saying
> > > that the Burma campaign of 1942 had not been well documented. Even
> > > today it seems like there isn't a whole lot of books written about the
> > > Burma War. Well I see it's not from lack of resources - the review on
> > > Amazon mentions the Burma Campaign Memorial Library in London.
>
> > > Btw, the World at War episode on Burma is very good, and can be seen
> > > here:http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=F5A427AD78B64582
>
> > > It was your turn to say 'Hah' and now we're all out of step.
>
> > > B.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > These Burma Sturgeon thrive in the muddy waters of the Irrawadday
> > then?
>
> > (Hah!)
>
> > I didn't know too much about the Burma Campaign other than World at
> > War. And even that seems to tail off after Imphal and Kohima. The
> > Latimer book is good (maps apart). It was in many ways a sideshow and
> > very low on the scale of Allied priorities for resources and so the
> > achivement of Slim's 14th Army in beating the Japanese and
> > reconquering the country deserves more recognition that it has had.
>
> > p.378. "Slim noted in a Press Club lecture in 1946 that Fourteenth
> > Army now had a ration strength of 750,000 - the population of a great
> > city - scattered over an area as large as Poland and with the poorest
> > communications. 'Before we could get on with our real business -
> > fighting - we had to feed, clothe, house, and all the time we were
> > doing it, equip, doctor, police, pay and transport by road, ship, rail
> > and air all of those men. All that and jungle too!' It would mean
> > improvisation. 'No boats? We'll build 'em! No vegetables, we'll
> > grow 'em! No eggs? Duck farms!... Malaria, we'll stop it! Medium
> > guns bursting? Saw three feet off the barrel and go on shooting!
> > Their motto, "God helps those who help themselves."'
>
> > It is interesting too on the role that the Burma campaign played in
> > India's emerging sense of nationhood.
>
> > p.409 " As their cars burst down the road towards Rangoon past
> > bloated Japanese corpses, Fourteenth Army represented an India that
> > was takign possession of her own future. 'The feats of valour,
> > privation, endurance and the capacity to fight even for their foreign
> > master', wrote Anil Chandra, 'was the inheritance of the Indian Army
> > flowing down decade after decade.' It had grown to stand now on the
> > verge of independence, 'proud, and incredibly generous to us, on these
> > final battlefields of the Burmese plain', thought John Masters. It
> > was all summed up in the voice of an Indian colonel of artillery who,
> > 'bending close to an English colonel over a map, straightened and said
> > with a smile, "Ok, George. Thanks. I've got it. We'll take over all
> > tasks at 1800. What about a beer?""- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -
>
> > - Afficher le texte des messages précédents -
>
> yes the Burma Sturgeon thrive in the muddy waters of the Irrawadday.
> Ho. Ho. Ho.
> I hope you were laughing *with* me.
>
> General William Slim and the 14th army were amazing. Thanks for more
> from the book!
>
> B.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Oh yes, laughing *with* you, of course. I did not mean to carp over
sturgeon.

N
 >> Stay informed about: Speaking of Orwell fans of the subtler kind 

"I do not regard advertising as entertainment or an art form" - nor do
I...

Apropos of the swill bucket, and in spite of the detestable word
'twee':
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2100056,00.html

I had to laugh at this comment:

"'freshness day and night,
FRESHNESS WITH A LIGHT!
Plug it in'

Genius. Because my house stinks and it's too dark. This is just the
perfect product for me and everyone else who lives in sewers. And the
tune, so catchy..."

B.

Screaming yellow zonkers could be fatal, unnhh!
 >> Stay informed about: Speaking of Orwell fans of the subtler kind