Species

"OOC" <havana3am.RemoveThis@cox.net> schreef in bericht
news:orRRc.9335$V%.550@okepread03...
 > I was just wondering, reading the foundation, what was Asimov's position
 > on the galazy sustaining life other than human. I have read from one arm
 > of the galaxy to the other, and all there is is humans? I found that
 > hard to believe and disheartening. Nothing better than coming to a new
 > planet and finding little green men?
 >
In the Foundation series, it is explained that Earth indeed is the one and
only cradle for higher lifeforms. Sometimes however, on rare other planets
lower lifeforms were found, like greenery and plankton. These forms were
often soon overshadowed by the earthfication proces that followed discovery.
In one early story (in The Rest of the Robots) I came across a story called
Victory Unintentional, in which robots have to deal with original
inhabitants of Jupiter. That's the only story so far I came across that
featured higher intelligent lifeforms other than humans.

Manicus<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Species 

Lest we forget 'The Last Question", or is it 'The First Question'? In which
the higher lifeforms eventually bring about the big crunch/bang.

BFD!


"Manicus" <manicus.RemoveThis@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:cfcb8s$7e9$1@reader11.wxs.nl...
 >
 > "OOC" <havana3am.RemoveThis@cox.net> schreef in bericht
 > news:orRRc.9335$V%.550@okepread03...
  >> I was just wondering, reading the foundation, what was Asimov's position
  >> on the galazy sustaining life other than human. I have read from one arm
  >> of the galaxy to the other, and all there is is humans? I found that
  >> hard to believe and disheartening. Nothing better than coming to a new
  >> planet and finding little green men?
  >>
 > In the Foundation series, it is explained that Earth indeed is the one and
 > only cradle for higher lifeforms. Sometimes however, on rare other planets
 > lower lifeforms were found, like greenery and plankton. These forms were
 > often soon overshadowed by the earthfication proces that followed
 > discovery.
 > In one early story (in The Rest of the Robots) I came across a story
 > called
 > Victory Unintentional, in which robots have to deal with original
 > inhabitants of Jupiter. That's the only story so far I came across that
 > featured higher intelligent lifeforms other than humans.
 >
 > Manicus
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Species 

"Manicus" <manicus.RemoveThis@chello.nl> wrote in message news:<cfcb8s$7e9$1@reader11.wxs.nl>...

 > In the Foundation series, it is explained that Earth indeed is the one and
 > only cradle for higher lifeforms. Sometimes however, on rare other planets
 > lower lifeforms were found, like greenery and plankton. These forms were
 > often soon overshadowed by the earthfication proces that followed discovery.
 > In one early story (in The Rest of the Robots) I came across a story called
 > Victory Unintentional, in which robots have to deal with original
 > inhabitants of Jupiter. That's the only story so far I came across that
 > featured higher intelligent lifeforms other than humans.
 >
 > Manicus

There are lots of others. "The Gods Themselves" is a whole novel
where aliens (although from another Universe) are important
protagonists. "Blind Alley" actually has aliens in the Foundation
universe. Other stories include "Green Patches", "What is This Thing
Called Love?", "Buy Jupiter", "Half-Breed" and i think the Lucky Starr
novels have intelligent aliens too.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Species 

"Manicus" <manicus.TakeThisOut@chello.nl> writes:


 >"OOC" <havana3am.TakeThisOut@cox.net> schreef in bericht
 >news:orRRc.9335$V%.550@okepread03...
  >> I was just wondering, reading the foundation, what was Asimov's position
  >> on the galazy sustaining life other than human. I have read from one arm
  >> of the galaxy to the other, and all there is is humans?
  [ ... ]

 >In one early story (in The Rest of the Robots) I came across a story called
 >Victory Unintentional, in which robots have to deal with original
 >inhabitants of Jupiter. That's the only story so far I came across that
 >featured higher intelligent lifeforms other than humans.

  There's also one early short story, ``Blind Alley'' -- still
under-reprinted -- set pretty solidly in the Galactic Empire (Trantor
rules with a more-or-less benevolent and effective hand) featuring the
discovery of one little backwater planet with a few aliens, and the
work one skilled bureaucrat goes through to save them.

  It's a nice story, partly for explaining as Asimov does well how
it is the deathly prose of bureaucracy that keeps society together, and
is almost an archetypical John W. Campbell ``save the day by cleverly
gaming the system'' tale. The downsides are the (necessary) inclusions
of interludes written in Middle Mind-Numbing Bureaucratic halt the action
yet can't be removed, and a major character is named Zammo, so every time
he's on stage one thinks of the lesser Marx brothers. If you get past
that it's worth it.

--
    Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Species 

How I rejoyced in reading these messages. So much new Asimov ground to
cover!
I have a fear. One day I will wake up without a new Asimov story to read.
Although I must admitt, I find it more and more difficult when He leaves the
universe coherency of the Empire, Foundation and Robot stories.
Thats why The End of Eternity was such a pleasant surprise to me. I really
thought He was writing about a different reality, but when He mentioned the
Neuronic Whip, I thought: "Wait a minute! What is this? Is there a
connection after all?" Of course in the end it all came beautifully
together.
Does anyone know whether the Asimov family has commissioned a new crown
prince to continue the foundation series? Because after all, I think, in
Foundation and Earth, Asimov was just about to introduce aliens into the
series, in the shape of the child Fallom. Read the last page! I'm sure!


"Joseph Nebus" <nebusj RemoveThis @rpi.edu> schreef in bericht
news:cfda3m$gjm@viper.nic.rpi.edu...
 > "Manicus" <manicus RemoveThis @chello.nl> writes:
 >
 >
  > >"OOC" <havana3am RemoveThis @cox.net> schreef in bericht
  > >news:orRRc.9335$V%.550@okepread03...
   > >> I was just wondering, reading the foundation, what was Asimov's
position
   > >> on the galazy sustaining life other than human. I have read from one
arm
   > >> of the galaxy to the other, and all there is is humans?
 > [ ... ]
 >
  > >In one early story (in The Rest of the Robots) I came across a story
called
  > >Victory Unintentional, in which robots have to deal with original
  > >inhabitants of Jupiter. That's the only story so far I came across that
  > >featured higher intelligent lifeforms other than humans.
 >
 > There's also one early short story, ``Blind Alley'' -- still
 > under-reprinted -- set pretty solidly in the Galactic Empire (Trantor
 > rules with a more-or-less benevolent and effective hand) featuring the
 > discovery of one little backwater planet with a few aliens, and the
 > work one skilled bureaucrat goes through to save them.
 >
 > It's a nice story, partly for explaining as Asimov does well how
 > it is the deathly prose of bureaucracy that keeps society together, and
 > is almost an archetypical John W. Campbell ``save the day by cleverly
 > gaming the system'' tale. The downsides are the (necessary) inclusions
 > of interludes written in Middle Mind-Numbing Bureaucratic halt the action
 > yet can't be removed, and a major character is named Zammo, so every time
 > he's on stage one thinks of the lesser Marx brothers. If you get past
 > that it's worth it.
 >
 > --
 > Joseph Nebus
 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Species 

I was interested in the foundation series, on the second book, love it-
truly. The man was waaaaaay beyond his time. I also read about his
shocking death, rather hard. I found it disturbingly ironic that he
would die of a disease that is one of the banes of all mankind
 >> Stay informed about: Species 

BFD wrote:

 > Lest we forget 'The Last Question", or is it 'The First Question'? In which
 > the higher lifeforms eventually bring about the big crunch/bang.

The higher lifeforms in "The Last Question" weren't alien - they were
humans after millions of years of evolution, and merged with an
similarly advanced computer.

sherm--

--
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 >> Stay informed about: Species 

Manicus wrote:

 > In the Foundation series, it is explained that Earth indeed is the one and
 > only cradle for higher lifeforms. Sometimes however, on rare other planets
 > lower lifeforms were found, like greenery and plankton.

IIRC, some people in that series wondered why evolution, given the
necessary building blocks, had failed to produce intelligence all over
the place.

 > In one early story (in The Rest of the Robots) I came across a story called
 > Victory Unintentional, in which robots have to deal with original
 > inhabitants of Jupiter.

The post-Asimov Foundation books by Brin, Bear, and Benford expanded on
this idea. The robot expansion into space stayed a step ahead of humans,
wiping out any potential threat with robotic efficiency. The robots kept
this secret from humans, as knowledge of the multiple genocides done in
humanity's name would cause widespread emotional trauma among humans.

It's yet another loophole in the three laws - they're phrased to protect
*human* life. Other forms of life, including other sentient beings, are
fair game if they pose a threat to humans.

sherm--

--
Cocoa programming in Perl: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://camelbones.sourceforge.net" target="_blank">http://camelbones.sourceforge.net</a>
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 >> Stay informed about: Species 

I did read an Asimov story, set somewhere amidst the shared universe of the
Robot and Foundation books, about a really different (read- alien /
non-human) species, that escaped to the Lesser Magellanic Clouds.

Reference has been made to them, such as after the novel Foundation and
Earth, of the need for a united Galaxia (the galactic version of the perfect
ecosystem planet of Gaia), to fend off future threats to humanity, from
without and within. This alien species could be such a potential external
threat.
(Conversely, the internal threat might come from the evolved
hermaphroditic humans, such as the girl that the long-lived android R.
Daneel Olivaw transferred his mind to, as he started dying in the heart of
the Moon.)

Could anyone with better records of the Good Doctor's works, enlighten us
with titles and references to said stories, books and essays, that mentioned
these fled aliens? Thanks!

Alan Heah. fynyx.TakeThisOut@singnet.com.sg
 >> Stay informed about: Species 

 > From: "Sherm Pendley" <spamtrap.RemoveThis@dot-app.org>
  > > The post-Asimov Foundation books by Brin, Bear, and Benford expanded on
  > > this idea. The robot expansion into space stayed a step ahead of humans,
  > > wiping out any potential threat with robotic efficiency. The robots kept
  > > this secret from humans, as knowledge of the multiple genocides done in
  > > humanity's name would cause widespread emotional trauma among humans.
What non-Asimovian CRAP!

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, Alan Kian-Chye Heah wrote:
 > Yuck! Now that you put it that way, I have to see the robots in a much more
 > evil, sinister light.
But of course, since it wasn't Asimov that wrote it, it didn't -really-
happen.

3ch<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Species 

If I remember correctly-

- Asimov lived on quite a while after the first bypass surgery. I think the
man was strong, and lived a full life.

- In his last message released following his death, he was far more
concerned over how his wife Janet would take his passing,
considering that he did not believe in God and afterlife.
--
Alan Heah. fynyx.RemoveThis@singnet.com.sg

"OOC" <havana3am.RemoveThis@cox.net> wrote in message
news:PlzSc.172$vj.168@okepread03...
 > I was interested in the foundation series, on the second book, love it-
 > truly. The man was waaaaaay beyond his time. I also read about his
 > shocking death, rather hard. I found it disturbingly ironic that he
 > would die of a disease that is one of the banes of all mankind<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Species 

Yuck! Now that you put it that way, I have to see the robots in a much more
evil, sinister light.
Then I would not be sure I can accept genocide by creations gone ahead
before us, just to protect our selfish hides.
My quiet respect for the sacrifices of R. Daneel Olivaw, would turn into
disgust for his over-extended history of ruthless manipulation.

Alan Heah. fynyx RemoveThis @singnet.com.sg


----- Original Message -----
From: "Sherm Pendley" <spamtrap RemoveThis @dot-app.org>
Newsgroups: alt.books.isaac-asimov
Sent: Thursday 12 August 2004 10:54
Subject: Re: Species
....
 > The post-Asimov Foundation books by Brin, Bear, and Benford expanded on
 > this idea. The robot expansion into space stayed a step ahead of humans,
 > wiping out any potential threat with robotic efficiency. The robots kept
 > this secret from humans, as knowledge of the multiple genocides done in
 > humanity's name would cause widespread emotional trauma among humans.
 >
 > It's yet another loophole in the three laws - they're phrased to protect
 > *human* life. Other forms of life, including other sentient beings, are
 > fair game if they pose a threat to humans.
 >
 > sherm--
....<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Species 

colonel_hack.DeleteThis@yahoo.com wrote:

  >>From: "Sherm Pendley" <spamtrap.DeleteThis@dot-app.org>
  >>
   >>>The post-Asimov Foundation books by Brin, Bear, and Benford expanded on
   >>>this idea. The robot expansion into space stayed a step ahead of humans,
   >>>wiping out any potential threat with robotic efficiency.
 >
 > What non-Asimovian CRAP!

Frankly, I don't think it's worth getting too worked up about what's
"canon" and what's not - obviously, ymmv.

But it's worth mentioning, I think, that these three authors aren't
exactly nobodies out to make a quick buck from the Asimov name. They
were reputedly close friends with Asmimov and his family, and had
regularly corresponded with him and discussed his ideas about robotics.

So while the books weren't written by the Good Doctor himself, I think
he would have approved. They definitely fit with his earlier works - he
often dealt with the unanticipated consequences of his Three Laws, and
mass genocide of aliens in order to protect humanity is certainly that.

Asimov even laid the groundwork for the idea himself. In "Foundation and
Earth", he established that the Three Laws only apply to humans - and
are limited by the robots own conception of what's human. In "Robots and
Empire", he described robots as being capable of killing billions of
humans to serve what they perceive as the greater interest of humanity
as a whole. It's a natural and logical progression then, that those same
robots would be quite capable of slaughtering huge numbers of aliens -
they're non-human, so the Three Laws don't apply.

 > But of course, since it wasn't Asimov that wrote it, it didn't -really-
 > happen.

I hate to break it to you, but we're discussing works of *fiction* here.
None of it *really* happened. Arguing about whose imagination is "right"
or "wrong" is a bit absurd.

sherm--

--
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Hire me! My resume: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.dot-app.org" target="_blank">http://www.dot-app.org</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Species