Surprise for an Imperial Police Officer?

ROBBIE wrote:

 > "Tom Deveson" <all.DeleteThis@devesons.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
 > news:61c4dd77.0307261245.70a1d5dc@posting.google.com...
  > > I wonder what George would have said;
  > >
  > > "Harumph" or "I say" or "Carry on" or -- who knows?
  > >
<font color=green>  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3095671.stm</font" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3095671.stm</font</a>>
  > >
  > > Tom
 >
 > A number of things always go through my mind when this event comes up.
 > First, Pride was a sin when I went to school;

Yes, that's why "freedom" is better. Someone lent me a book of postmodernist
essays a couple years ago with a cover photo of a garage door painted with
food-for-thought comments and questions. The best one was at the very end:
"Look for the moment when pride becomes contempt."

 > second, why do they bother
 > when they make themselves look like such cunts?

Don't you care for the cut of HM's bobby uniforms?

 > Third, Why can't they just
 > get on with it?

Because the rest of the world won't let them. Consider, for example, the
continued fact of gaybashing crimes, and the awful paperwork hassle surrounding
hospital visiting or inheritance rights with respect to a life partner whose
formal legal status is only "roommate."

 > Fourth, is homosexuality still a 'cause' that needs marches?

Yes.

 >
 > Fifth: why is it that the biggest, ugliest, hairiest men want to dress up as
 > women?

Isn't always. They're just the ones you notice.

Anyway when we went to the London Pride march in 1996 we thought it was far too
solemn and there ought to have been more drag nuns on rollerskates. I hope
they've livened it up since then?

/M<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"ROBBIE" <littleboyschutz.TakeThisOut@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bfust3$j7q8v$1@ID-200782.news.uni-berlin.de...
 >

 >
 > A number of things always go through my mind when this event comes up.
 > First, Pride was a sin when I went to school;

It's better off being called Mardi Gras - as it is in Manchester or Sydney.
Gay Pride, Black Pride, Mother's Pride - it's all potentially bread for a
rising ego - but there's certainly nothing wrong with a carnival.

second, why do they bother
 > when they make themselves look like such cunts?

Surely that's what seperates us from the Moslems - that people have the time
and space to act as cuntish in as many diverse ways as they wish. And I
think there is some truth in the adage that both the black and gay
communities have got men, in general, dressing a lot better than they did a
few years ago. I'm all for both men and women looking sexy, slim and cool.

Third, Why can't they just
 > get on with it?

Surely they are doing - that's the point of having a big party - "we're
here, we're not going away and we're gonna be cornholing and cocksucking
whether you like it or not!" The thing about Pride or Mardi Gras or whatever
you call it - it is NOT publicly subsidised, people pay to go in and
business sponsors it. Which makes it very different to something like
Respect, which you and I are paying for in our rates.

 >Fourth, is homosexuality still a 'cause' that needs marches?

I think that the march is more like a new orleans, big entertainment thing
than a political statement - or could it be argued that in a world in which
sexual Puritanism still has a place, overt statements of "deviant" sexuality
are welcome. It also does give young gay people - who still spend the first
16 or so years of their lives in lonely & secret fear - a highly visible and
positive focus.

 > Fifth: why is it that the biggest, ugliest, hairiest men want to dress up
as
 > women?

So we can all have a good laugh - there's nothing funnier in Carry On Don't
Lose Your Head than Sid James in drag!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Martha Bridegam" <bridegam.TakeThisOut@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:3F231146.B9C9ED7E@pacbell.net...
 >
 >
 > ROBBIE wrote:
 >

  > > when they make themselves look like such cunts?
 >
 > Don't you care for the cut of HM's bobby uniforms?

I think the pith helments are cool, though I call again for them to be white
and the jackets red.

 >
  > > Third, Why can't they just
  > > get on with it?
 >
 > Because the rest of the world won't let them. Consider, for example, the
 > continued fact of gaybashing crimes, and the awful paperwork hassle
surrounding
 > hospital visiting or inheritance rights with respect to a life partner
whose
 > formal legal status is only "roommate."

I think they should just shut up and get on with it; you know full well that
it'll be like the women's lib thing and the black thing: it'll never be
enough because it will become a profession: more more more more more more-
discrimation! Even when they have a gay black president they'll still be
shouting discrimination.

 >
  > > Fourth, is homosexuality still a 'cause' that needs marches?
 >
 > Yes.

Why?

 >
  > >
  > > Fifth: why is it that the biggest, ugliest, hairiest men want to dress
up as
  > > women?
 >
 > Isn't always. They're just the ones you notice.

Well a larger freakshow I have never seen, beauty was a distinct rarity. Old
poofs on crutches seemed to be the order of the day.

 >
 > Anyway when we went to the London Pride march in 1996 we thought it was
far too
 > solemn and there ought to have been more drag nuns on rollerskates. I hope
 > they've livened it up since then?

No its still a load of teenagers-at-heart thinking that they've got
something to celebrate.. A big fucking yawn it is for the straight society
it is supposed to appeal to/provoke/lobby. And before you start, i've been
through my bi curious stage so there, and if I was the biggest poof in the
world I wouldn't go on that march


 >
 > /M
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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ROBBIE wrote:

 > ...And before you start, i've been
 > through my bi curious stage so there, and if I was the biggest poof in the
 > world I wouldn't go on that march...

;--) and gotten over it entirely, I gather?

/M<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"jmc" <jamesmartincharlton.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bg04p1$nsj$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
 >
 > "ROBBIE" <littleboyschutz.DeleteThis@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
 > news:bfust3$j7q8v$1@ID-200782.news.uni-berlin.de...
  > >
 >
  > >
  > > A number of things always go through my mind when this event comes up.
  > > First, Pride was a sin when I went to school;
 >
 > It's better off being called Mardi Gras - as it is in Manchester or
Sydney.
 > Gay Pride, Black Pride, Mother's Pride - it's all potentially bread for a
 > rising ego - but there's certainly nothing wrong with a carnival.

The Carnival of Sodomy. Wow! We're gonna stay up late and provoke boring old
straights- 'cept no one gives a shit. Must be better things to celebrate
than plain old arsefucking ain't there? Very sixth form...

 >
 > second, why do they bother
  > > when they make themselves look like such cunts?
 >
 > Surely that's what seperates us from the Moslems - that people have the
time
 > and space to act as cuntish in as many diverse ways as they wish.

Yes and cuntish is cuntish is cuntish.

And I
 > think there is some truth in the adage that both the black and gay
 > communities have got men, in general, dressing a lot better than they did
a
 > few years ago. I'm all for both men and women looking sexy, slim and cool.

Yes, the use of certain perjoratives would no doubt offend you, but 'fat'
wouldn't be one of them. Fat Black Poof would only be offensive to two types
of people in your book no doubt....LOL deary me... baseball cap has been the
crowning achievment of the black community- Jimmy Saville and Bob Marley
pioneered the sportswear phenomenom. I guess a homosexual designed Calvin
Klein underwear for which I'm thankful though I don't understand why sexual
orientation has to be brought into cultural matters constantly.

 >
 > Third, Why can't they just
  > > get on with it?
 >
 > Surely they are doing - that's the point of having a big party - "we're
 > here, we're not going away and we're gonna be cornholing and cocksucking
 > whether you like it or not!"

Well, I think at this remove straight society knows that, don't you, to a
yawn provoking level. the patron saint of Modern England is Graham Norton
you know. The march strikes me, to use one of your favourite perjoratives,
as infantilism or at least teenagerism writ large. Like the blacks and the
Irish, they've pretty much got what they've been moaning for but now the
addiction to protesting/exhibitionism can not be shaken off. They should get
over themselves.

The thing about Pride or Mardi Gras or whatever
 > you call it - it is NOT publicly subsidised, people pay to go in and
 > business sponsors it. Which makes it very different to something like
 > Respect, which you and I are paying for in our rates.
 >
  > >Fourth, is homosexuality still a 'cause' that needs marches?
 >
 > I think that the march is more like a new orleans, big entertainment thing
 > than a political statement - or could it be argued that in a world in
which
 > sexual Puritanism still has a place

Does it? News to me.

, overt statements of "deviant" sexuality
 > are welcome.

What do statements of sexuality achieve? I'm curious to know. The march is a
big cruise and indulgence dressed up with some flimsy old protest bollocks
and 'helping 16 year olds'. Pfui!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Martha Bridegam wrote

 >Anyway when we went to the London Pride march in 1996 we thought it was far
 >too
 >solemn and there ought to have been more drag nuns on rollerskates. I hope
 >they've livened it up since then?

Isn't there some tension between the political message of the gay community to
the straight world-- i.e., we're really not so different from you-- and the
cultural message of these parades-- i.e., we're extremely different from you
and proud of it?

Is there any discussion of this in the gay community?

Gene<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Gene Zitver wrote:

 > Martha Bridegam wrote
 >
  > >Anyway when we went to the London Pride march in 1996 we thought it was far
  > >too
  > >solemn and there ought to have been more drag nuns on rollerskates. I hope
  > >they've livened it up since then?
 >
 > Isn't there some tension between the political message of the gay community to
 > the straight world-- i.e., we're really not so different from you-- and the
 > cultural message of these parades-- i.e., we're extremely different from you
 > and proud of it?
 >
 > Is there any discussion of this in the gay community?
 >
 > Gene

Lots and lots and lots. Actually what has happened in SF is that the annual
parade has gotten increasingly respectable, with family contingents, floats
sponsored by drink manufacturers and radio stations, and strong discouragement of
edgier float themes.

For one of the more extreme critiques -- presented only as an example *without*
my personal endorsement -- see <http://www.gayshamesf.org/>.

/M<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 16:39:51 -0700, Martha Bridegam
<bridegam RemoveThis @pacbell.net> wrote:

 >Anyway when we went to the London Pride march in 1996 we thought it was far too
 >solemn and there ought to have been more drag nuns on rollerskates. I hope
 >they've livened it up since then?
 >
Things have loosened up since then, I think, but the bit in the park
afterwards is more fun than the actual march. England now has its own
chapter of the wonderful Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, who feature
quite prominently at that point. See
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.thesisters.demon.co.uk." target="_blank">http://www.thesisters.demon.co.uk.</a> That site also features the entire
bible in Polari at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.thesisters.demon.co.uk/bible/" target="_blank">http://www.thesisters.demon.co.uk/bible/</a> .

--
Don Aitken<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Don Aitken wrote:

 > .... the wonderful Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, who feature
 > quite prominently at that point. See
 > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.thesisters.demon.co.uk." target="_blank">http://www.thesisters.demon.co.uk.</a> That site also features the entire
 > bible in Polari at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.thesisters.demon.co.uk/bible/" target="_blank">http://www.thesisters.demon.co.uk/bible/</a> .
 >

OK, much confusion on this end. Does Polari exist or are the Sisters yankin' our
chains?

/M<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"ROBBIE" <littleboyschutz.TakeThisOut@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bg0afd$j3mu9$1@ID-200782.news.uni-berlin.de...
 >
 >
 > The Carnival of Sodomy. Wow! We're gonna stay up late and provoke boring
old
 > straights- 'cept no one gives a shit.

But, you see, YOU DO.

Must be better things to celebrate
 > than plain old arsefucking ain't there? Very sixth form...
 >

What makes you certain that they do it to "provoke straights"? I thought
they did it 'cos they enjoyed it! And seeing that in a number of countries
to this day homosexuality is punishable by death, surely the freedom to
practise as one's heart and soul desires is to be celebrated. I had thought
that you were a great supporter of the West's freedoms and would have
thought that you would approve of the celebration of them... As to sixth
form, the thing I remember most about the sixth form at my school was the
incapability of boys to accept homosexuality - always making a big deal out
of it and giggling/ranting when the subject came up.

  > >
  > > second, why do they bother
   > > > when they make themselves look like such cunts?
  > >
  > > Surely that's what seperates us from the Moslems - that people have the
 > time
  > > and space to act as cuntish in as many diverse ways as they wish.
 >
 > Yes and cuntish is cuntish is cuntish.
 >

Plenty of things could be described as cuntish - your over-the-top obsession
with local irritations like Pride for example. Chill out - it's not doing
you any harm, is it?

 > And I
  > > think there is some truth in the adage that both the black and gay
  > > communities have got men, in general, dressing a lot better than they
did
 > a
  > > few years ago. I'm all for both men and women looking sexy, slim and
cool.
 >
 > Yes, the use of certain perjoratives would no doubt offend you, but 'fat'
 > wouldn't be one of them. Fat Black Poof would only be offensive to two
types
 > of people in your book no doubt....LOL deary me... baseball cap has been
the
 > crowning achievment of the black community- Jimmy Saville and Bob Marley
 > pioneered the sportswear phenomenom. I guess a homosexual designed Calvin
 > Klein underwear for which I'm thankful though I don't understand why
sexual
 > orientation has to be brought into cultural matters constantly.
 >
  > >

For fuck's sake, who do you think you are talking to?! When have I ever
objected to any perjoratives?!!! It's me should be saying deary me - think
about who you are communicating with and treat each individual as such!
Instead of as one mass of "political correctness". Otherwise you're nothing
more than "angry of Sutton" and extremely sixth form to boot!

  > > Third, Why can't they just
   > > > get on with it?
  > >
  > > Surely they are doing - that's the point of having a big party - "we're
  > > here, we're not going away and we're gonna be cornholing and cocksucking
  > > whether you like it or not!"
 >
 > Well, I think at this remove straight society knows that, don't you, to a
 > yawn provoking level. the patron saint of Modern England is Graham Norton
 > you know. The march strikes me, to use one of your favourite perjoratives,
 > as infantilism or at least teenagerism writ large. Like the blacks and the
 > Irish, they've pretty much got what they've been moaning for but now the
 > addiction to protesting/exhibitionism can not be shaken off. They should
get
 > over themselves.
 >

1. It is only in Urban areas that homosexuality is accepted. 2. There are
plenty of homosexuals who do not fit the Graham Norton stereotype. 3. As I
said, yesterday's festival has nothing to do with protesting but everything
to do with having a good time. Why would you object to that - a festival
which is without public subsidy - but not to the Lord Mayor's show or the
Jubilee celebration? Or a Stones concert, for that matter. It is no
different. It's merely a matter of taste.

 > The thing about Pride or Mardi Gras or whatever
  > > you call it - it is NOT publicly subsidised, people pay to go in and
  > > business sponsors it. Which makes it very different to something like
  > > Respect, which you and I are paying for in our rates.
  > >
   > > >Fourth, is homosexuality still a 'cause' that needs marches?
  > >
  > > I think that the march is more like a new orleans, big entertainment
thing
  > > than a political statement - or could it be argued that in a world in
 > which
  > > sexual Puritanism still has a place
 >
 > Does it? News to me.
 >
 > , overt statements of "deviant" sexuality
  > > are welcome.
 >
 > What do statements of sexuality achieve? I'm curious to know. The march is
a
 > big cruise and indulgence dressed up with some flimsy old protest bollocks
 > and 'helping 16 year olds'. Pfui!
 >

It seems that you don't know your history. Homosexuality has been accepted
sometimes but often punishable by extreme measures. Even today, young people
are rejected by their families and friends merely for being gay. This, I
might add, is something that would never happen to a black or Irish person,
whose blackness or Irishness is the same as their families. The
high-profile, media, urban, moneyed side of the gay community is a very
small part of the whole story. There are people who cannot buy themselves a
nice flat in a liberal area and who have to live daily having to hide their
relationships. Things have changed for the better however and, as I said, I
was not aware that yesterday was a protest but a self-financed party. If you
had any imagination at all, you would see that a highly visible event like
yesterday's would be a beacon of light to a lonely child living in an
emotionally repressed family on a sink estate. It would offer a vision of a
life in which his/her inner self might one day be able to be expressed.
Which I think is wonderful.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:17:12 -0700, Martha Bridegam
<mabjo.DeleteThis@pacbell.net> wrote:

 >
 >
 >Don Aitken wrote:
 >
  >> .... the wonderful Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, who feature
  >> quite prominently at that point. See
  >> <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.thesisters.demon.co.uk." target="_blank">http://www.thesisters.demon.co.uk.</a> That site also features the entire
  >> bible in Polari at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.thesisters.demon.co.uk/bible/" target="_blank">http://www.thesisters.demon.co.uk/bible/</a> .
  >>
 >
 >OK, much confusion on this end. Does Polari exist or are the Sisters yankin' our
 >chains?
 >
It certainly exists, and serious textbooks of linguistics deal with
it. Google will find a fair amount. Confusion is caused by the fact
that its best-known modern exponents were the late Kenneth Williams
and Hugh Paddick as "Julian and Sandy" on the 60s BBC radio programme
"Round the Horne", and lots of people assume that they just made it
up. It descends from the medieval "lingua franca", which was mainly
Italian, and somehow spread from sailors to London theatre people in
the 18th century, acquiring layers of thieves' cant, backslang and
Romany along the way. The association with the gay community goes back
a long way - you can't be properly camp in England without a bit of
Polari. Technically it is a pidgin, not a proper language, because it
has only vocabulary; the grammar, syntax and linking words come from
English. The bible "translation" doesn't give the full flavor, because
it was done by software.

--
Don Aitken<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Don Aitken wrote:

 > On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 10:17:12 -0700, Martha Bridegam
 > <mabjo RemoveThis @pacbell.net> wrote:
 >
  > >
  > >
  > >Don Aitken wrote:
  > >
   > >> .... the wonderful Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, who feature
   > >> quite prominently at that point. See
   > >> <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.thesisters.demon.co.uk." target="_blank">http://www.thesisters.demon.co.uk.</a> That site also features the entire
   > >> bible in Polari at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.thesisters.demon.co.uk/bible/" target="_blank">http://www.thesisters.demon.co.uk/bible/</a> .
   > >>
  > >
  > >OK, much confusion on this end. Does Polari exist or are the Sisters yankin' our
  > >chains?
  > >
 > It certainly exists, and serious textbooks of linguistics deal with
 > it. Google will find a fair amount. Confusion is caused by the fact
 > that its best-known modern exponents were the late Kenneth Williams
 > and Hugh Paddick as "Julian and Sandy" on the 60s BBC radio programme
 > "Round the Horne", and lots of people assume that they just made it
 > up. It descends from the medieval "lingua franca", which was mainly
 > Italian, and somehow spread from sailors to London theatre people in
 > the 18th century, acquiring layers of thieves' cant, backslang and
 > Romany along the way. The association with the gay community goes back
 > a long way - you can't be properly camp in England without a bit of
 > Polari. Technically it is a pidgin, not a proper language, because it
 > has only vocabulary; the grammar, syntax and linking words come from
 > English. The bible "translation" doesn't give the full flavor, because
 > it was done by software.
 >
 > --
 > Don Aitken

Thanks. Yes, I thought there was a little Romany in there. With lots of other rich
Indo-European echoes.

The glossary itself is also a little bit arch/veiled, isn't it? I mean, "dish the
dirt" for "commune" -- ??

Does Firbank owe something to Polari? What about the Python "poof" skits? There's a
similar two-step rhythm to phrases: "bijou nochy," "dewey dacha," etc. (maybe some
Russian in those?).

Interesting that "munge" and "troll" found their way into Net slang but with
different meanings.

And how long has "homies" been part of Polari?

/M<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Martha Bridegam <mabjo RemoveThis @pacbell.net> wrote:

 > OK, much confusion on this end. Does Polari exist or are the Sisters yankin'
 > our chains?

There was just a story about it in the Grauniad a couple of weeks ago:

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,997545,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,997545,00.html</a>

cheers,

Henry<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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