Talking Tosh?

> But why Christian belief? More abstractly why the belief in the God of
> Abraham, which I think covers Christianity, Judaism and Islam? Why not
> any of the other quite different views on how everything fits together?
>
> - Richard
>

Different reasons, I think it all comes down to what makes sense to you
and what you experience. In the West, however, the main conflict is
with secular atheism or at least a perception that religion is somehow
relegated to blind, unthinking acceptance and that rational people,
really rational people don't go there.

Daryl
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Surmised by Roy writes:

> I can think of religious people who don't accept blindly or unthinkingly,
> and "anti"-religious people who do.

Naturally, and the Biblical use of the word "faith" implies knowledge,
but in many circles with wide audiences, people who believe in God are
patronized at best, until something happens, then it's "our prayers are
with the families"


>
> > and that rational people,
> > really rational people don't go there.
>
> The more rational, the less rational in some cases. R. Dawkins springs to
> mind.

And there is a pronounced tendency to forget all the logic they learned
in school, particularly in regard to ad hominum arguments.

Daryl
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Richard Corfield wrote:

> On 2006-11-26, Surmised by Roy <nunquam.TakeThisOut@nunca.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > SCIENTIFIC DESIGN: It is unreasonable to suggest that consciousness,
human
> > will and responsibility are simply products of materialistic science.
> > Dawkins's thesis undermines the very platform he so boldly states -
reason,
> > since materialistic determinism undermines all basis for rationality
itself
> > as C S Lewis and many other brilliant minds have shown.
>
> But why Christian belief? More abstractly why the belief in the God of
> Abraham, which I think covers Christianity, Judaism and Islam? Why not
> any of the other quite different views on how everything fits together?

I'm not sure that is the argument. I think it's "without supernatural
reason, no reason at all." Does it go back to Aristotle?

> - Richard
>
> --
> _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard Corfield
<Richard.Corfield.TakeThisOut@gmail.com>
> _/ _/ _/ _/
> _/_/ _/ _/ Time is a one way street, .
> _/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/ except in the Twilight Zone
3^
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<darylgene.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote:

> > But why Christian belief? More abstractly why the belief in the God of
> > Abraham, which I think covers Christianity, Judaism and Islam? Why not
> > any of the other quite different views on how everything fits together?
> >
> > - Richard
> >
>
> Different reasons, I think it all comes down to what makes sense to you
> and what you experience. In the West, however, the main conflict is
> with secular atheism or at least a perception that religion is somehow
> relegated to blind, unthinking acceptance

I can think of religious people who don't accept blindly or unthinkingly,
and "anti"-religious people who do.

> and that rational people,
> really rational people don't go there.

The more rational, the less rational in some cases. R. Dawkins springs to
mind.

> Daryl
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On 2006-11-27, Surmised by Roy <nunquam.DeleteThis@nunca.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure that is the argument. I think it's "without supernatural
> reason, no reason at all." Does it go back to Aristotle?

The argument seems to be "it was designed" versus "it was not designed".
It seems an argument that we keep having in the west with what looks
like the Christians arguing one way, and the atheists shooting that down
and the whole of religion with it, even if aspects of religion can offer
good things.

Maybe comparing Christian and non-Christian isn't so useful. I've seen
some not nice beliefs outside Christianity. I wonder if the religious
world, with all this communication, with all the religions being thrown
together, and with all the questioning, is tidying itself up a bit, at
least in places.

- Richard

--
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard Corfield <Richard.Corfield.DeleteThis@gmail.com>
_/ _/ _/ _/
_/_/ _/ _/ Time is a one way street, .
_/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/ except in the Twilight Zone 3^
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<darylgene.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote:

> Surmised by Roy writes:
>
> > I can think of religious people who don't accept blindly or
unthinkingly,
> > and "anti"-religious people who do.
>
> Naturally, and the Biblical use of the word "faith" implies knowledge,
> but in many circles with wide audiences, people who believe in God are
> patronized at best,

Yes, by people who are often guilty of (crypto)-religious errors themselves.

> until something happens, then it's "our prayers are
> with the families"

> > > and that rational people,
> > > really rational people don't go there.
> >
> > The more rational, the less rational in some cases. R. Dawkins springs
to
> > mind.
>
> And there is a pronounced tendency to forget all the logic they learned
> in school, particularly in regard to ad hominum arguments.

Dawkins, with his humourlessness and fanaticism, looks a lot more
'religious' (in his sense) than the Church of England.
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Richard Corfield wrote:

> On 2006-11-27, Surmised by Roy <nunquam DeleteThis @nunca.com> wrote:
> > I'm not sure that is the argument. I think it's "without supernatural
> > reason, no reason at all." Does it go back to Aristotle?
>
> The argument seems to be "it was designed" versus "it was not designed".
> It seems an argument that we keep having in the west with what looks
> like the Christians arguing one way, and the atheists shooting that down
> and the whole of religion with it, even if aspects of religion can offer
> good things.
>
> Maybe comparing Christian and non-Christian isn't so useful. I've seen
> some not nice beliefs outside Christianity.

I've seen some everywhere!

> I wonder if the religious
> world, with all this communication, with all the religions being thrown
> together, and with all the questioning, is tidying itself up a bit, at
> least in places.
>
> - Richard
>
> --
> _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard Corfield
<Richard.Corfield DeleteThis @gmail.com>
> _/ _/ _/ _/
> _/_/ _/ _/ Time is a one way street, .
> _/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/ except in the Twilight Zone
3^
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