Question about Ultimate Jean Grey

On Aug 16, 12:18 am, "Kenneth M. Lin" <kenneth_m_... DeleteThis @sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> "JLB" <barn... DeleteThis @shentel.net> wrote in message
>
> news:1187232055.658122.154700@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...> Is the revelation of the fact her parents were members of the Shi'ar
> > church new, or was it previously revealed?
>
> > JLB
>
> It was revealed just that once. The term Shi'ar didn't even appear in
> Ultimate Universe until then.
>
> In all honesty, the Ultimate Shi'ar sounds a whole lot like Scientology.
> And Ultimate Phoenix will look like a turkey.

They've mentioned the Shi'ar several times. We've even met Lilandra
and they have a member of the church working at the school, since they
invested some money in the place.

JLB
 >> Stay informed about: Question about Ultimate Jean Grey 

On Aug 16, 12:37 pm, "Kenneth M. Lin" <kenneth_m_....RemoveThis@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> "JLB" <barn....RemoveThis@shentel.net> wrote in message
>
> news:1187263683.561986.155320@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Aug 16, 12:18 am, "Kenneth M. Lin" <kenneth_m_....RemoveThis@sbcglobal.net>
> > wrote:
> >> "JLB" <barn....RemoveThis@shentel.net> wrote in message
>
> >>news:1187232055.658122.154700@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...> Is the
> >> revelation of the fact her parents were members of the Shi'ar
> >> > church new, or was it previously revealed?
>
> >> > JLB
>
> >> It was revealed just that once. The term Shi'ar didn't even appear in
> >> Ultimate Universe until then.
>
> >> In all honesty, the Ultimate Shi'ar sounds a whole lot like Scientology.
> >> And Ultimate Phoenix will look like a turkey.
>
> > They've mentioned the Shi'ar several times. We've even met Lilandra
> > and they have a member of the church working at the school, since they
> > invested some money in the place.
>
> > JLB
>
> Yes, Shi'ar was brought up in many issues. However, your original question
> was if Jean's parents belonging to Shi'ar has been revealed before. I
> answered no and cannot understand why you responded with something
> completely different.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

"The term Shi'ar didn't even appear in Ultimate Universe until then."

This suggested that no one had ever even mentioned the Shi'ar up till
Jean stating her parents were members of that church. I knew that so
since you suggested this was the first time the church had been
mentioned I wasn't sure if it was accurate.

JLB
 >> Stay informed about: Question about Ultimate Jean Grey 

"JLB" <barnett RemoveThis @shentel.net> wrote in message
news:1187263683.561986.155320@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 16, 12:18 am, "Kenneth M. Lin" <kenneth_m_... RemoveThis @sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>> "JLB" <barn... RemoveThis @shentel.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1187232055.658122.154700@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...> Is the
>> revelation of the fact her parents were members of the Shi'ar
>> > church new, or was it previously revealed?
>>
>> > JLB
>>
>> It was revealed just that once. The term Shi'ar didn't even appear in
>> Ultimate Universe until then.
>>
>> In all honesty, the Ultimate Shi'ar sounds a whole lot like Scientology.
>> And Ultimate Phoenix will look like a turkey.
>
> They've mentioned the Shi'ar several times. We've even met Lilandra
> and they have a member of the church working at the school, since they
> invested some money in the place.
>
> JLB
>
Yes, Shi'ar was brought up in many issues. However, your original question
was if Jean's parents belonging to Shi'ar has been revealed before. I
answered no and cannot understand why you responded with something
completely different.
 >> Stay informed about: Question about Ultimate Jean Grey 

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 16:37:54 GMT, "Kenneth M. Lin"
<kenneth_m_lin RemoveThis @sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>
>"JLB" <barnett RemoveThis @shentel.net> wrote in message
>news:1187263683.561986.155320@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>> On Aug 16, 12:18 am, "Kenneth M. Lin" <kenneth_m_... RemoveThis @sbcglobal.net>
>> wrote:
>>> "JLB" <barn... RemoveThis @shentel.net> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:1187232055.658122.154700@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...> Is the
>>> revelation of the fact her parents were members of the Shi'ar
>>> > church new, or was it previously revealed?
>>>
>>> > JLB
>>>
>>> It was revealed just that once. The term Shi'ar didn't even appear in
>>> Ultimate Universe until then.
>>>
>>> In all honesty, the Ultimate Shi'ar sounds a whole lot like Scientology.
>>> And Ultimate Phoenix will look like a turkey.
>>
>> They've mentioned the Shi'ar several times. We've even met Lilandra
>> and they have a member of the church working at the school, since they
>> invested some money in the place.
>>
>> JLB
>>
>Yes, Shi'ar was brought up in many issues. However, your original question
>was if Jean's parents belonging to Shi'ar has been revealed before. I
>answered no and cannot understand why you responded with something
>completely different.
>

Am I the only one who's sick of them drawing out the Phoenix story
line? It started in Millar's run and it just keeps going on and
on...they should either do something with it or drop it.
 >> Stay informed about: Question about Ultimate Jean Grey 

"JLB" <barnett RemoveThis @shentel.net> wrote in message
news:1187300909.437662.60190@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 16, 12:37 pm, "Kenneth M. Lin" <kenneth_m_... RemoveThis @sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>> "JLB" <barn... RemoveThis @shentel.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1187263683.561986.155320@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Aug 16, 12:18 am, "Kenneth M. Lin" <kenneth_m_... RemoveThis @sbcglobal.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >> "JLB" <barn... RemoveThis @shentel.net> wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:1187232055.658122.154700@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...> Is the
>> >> revelation of the fact her parents were members of the Shi'ar
>> >> > church new, or was it previously revealed?
>>
>> >> > JLB
>>
>> >> It was revealed just that once. The term Shi'ar didn't even appear in
>> >> Ultimate Universe until then.
>>
>> >> In all honesty, the Ultimate Shi'ar sounds a whole lot like
>> >> Scientology.
>> >> And Ultimate Phoenix will look like a turkey.
>>
>> > They've mentioned the Shi'ar several times. We've even met Lilandra
>> > and they have a member of the church working at the school, since they
>> > invested some money in the place.
>>
>> > JLB
>>
>> Yes, Shi'ar was brought up in many issues. However, your original
>> question
>> was if Jean's parents belonging to Shi'ar has been revealed before. I
>> answered no and cannot understand why you responded with something
>> completely different.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> "The term Shi'ar didn't even appear in Ultimate Universe until then."
>
> This suggested that no one had ever even mentioned the Shi'ar up till
> Jean stating her parents were members of that church. I knew that so
> since you suggested this was the first time the church had been
> mentioned I wasn't sure if it was accurate.
>
> JLB
>
This is very perturbing. Your question was about Jean's parents' religious
affiliation. Why does it matter if the said religion itself was referred to
before or since then?

For example, I could tell you that Mr. so-and-so is Christian on August
16th. Does you and I holding bible study for the past year affect when Mr.
so-and-so was revealed to be a Christian?
 >> Stay informed about: Question about Ultimate Jean Grey 

On Aug 17, 1:38 am, "Kenneth M. Lin" <kenneth_m_... RemoveThis @sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> "JLB" <barn... RemoveThis @shentel.net> wrote in message
>
> news:1187300909.437662.60190@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Aug 16, 12:37 pm, "Kenneth M. Lin" <kenneth_m_... RemoveThis @sbcglobal.net>
> > wrote:
> >> "JLB" <barn... RemoveThis @shentel.net> wrote in message
>
> >>news:1187263683.561986.155320@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > On Aug 16, 12:18 am, "Kenneth M. Lin" <kenneth_m_... RemoveThis @sbcglobal.net>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> "JLB" <barn... RemoveThis @shentel.net> wrote in message
>
> >> >>news:1187232055.658122.154700@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...> Is the
> >> >> revelation of the fact her parents were members of the Shi'ar
> >> >> > church new, or was it previously revealed?
>
> >> >> > JLB
>
> >> >> It was revealed just that once. The term Shi'ar didn't even appear in
> >> >> Ultimate Universe until then.
>
> >> >> In all honesty, the Ultimate Shi'ar sounds a whole lot like
> >> >> Scientology.
> >> >> And Ultimate Phoenix will look like a turkey.
>
> >> > They've mentioned the Shi'ar several times. We've even met Lilandra
> >> > and they have a member of the church working at the school, since they
> >> > invested some money in the place.
>
> >> > JLB
>
> >> Yes, Shi'ar was brought up in many issues. However, your original
> >> question
> >> was if Jean's parents belonging to Shi'ar has been revealed before. I
> >> answered no and cannot understand why you responded with something
> >> completely different.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > "The term Shi'ar didn't even appear in Ultimate Universe until then."
>
> > This suggested that no one had ever even mentioned the Shi'ar up till
> > Jean stating her parents were members of that church. I knew that so
> > since you suggested this was the first time the church had been
> > mentioned I wasn't sure if it was accurate.
>
> > JLB
>
> This is very perturbing. Your question was about Jean's parents' religious
> affiliation. Why does it matter if the said religion itself was referred to
> before or since then?
>
> For example, I could tell you that Mr. so-and-so is Christian on August
> 16th. Does you and I holding bible study for the past year affect when Mr.
> so-and-so was revealed to be a Christian?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You can not reveal someone to be a member of something that does not
exist yet. Your post suggested this was the first we'd heard of the
Shi'ar church and in fictions things don't exist till they're revealed
because they could be removed before then by an editor or author
change. If you hadn't seen the issues with the Shi'ar church than the
previous mentions of her parents religious affiliations might have
been missed.

JLB
 >> Stay informed about: Question about Ultimate Jean Grey 

"JLB" <barnett DeleteThis @shentel.net> wrote in message
news:1187351764.676096.275100@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 17, 1:38 am, "Kenneth M. Lin" <kenneth_m_... DeleteThis @sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>> "JLB" <barn... DeleteThis @shentel.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1187300909.437662.60190@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Aug 16, 12:37 pm, "Kenneth M. Lin" <kenneth_m_... DeleteThis @sbcglobal.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >> "JLB" <barn... DeleteThis @shentel.net> wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:1187263683.561986.155320@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> > On Aug 16, 12:18 am, "Kenneth M. Lin" <kenneth_m_... DeleteThis @sbcglobal.net>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> "JLB" <barn... DeleteThis @shentel.net> wrote in message
>>
>> >> >>news:1187232055.658122.154700@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...> Is
>> >> >>the
>> >> >> revelation of the fact her parents were members of the Shi'ar
>> >> >> > church new, or was it previously revealed?
>>
>> >> >> > JLB
>>
>> >> >> It was revealed just that once. The term Shi'ar didn't even appear
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> Ultimate Universe until then.
>>
>> >> >> In all honesty, the Ultimate Shi'ar sounds a whole lot like
>> >> >> Scientology.
>> >> >> And Ultimate Phoenix will look like a turkey.
>>
>> >> > They've mentioned the Shi'ar several times. We've even met Lilandra
>> >> > and they have a member of the church working at the school, since
>> >> > they
>> >> > invested some money in the place.
>>
>> >> > JLB
>>
>> >> Yes, Shi'ar was brought up in many issues. However, your original
>> >> question
>> >> was if Jean's parents belonging to Shi'ar has been revealed before. I
>> >> answered no and cannot understand why you responded with something
>> >> completely different.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > "The term Shi'ar didn't even appear in Ultimate Universe until then."
>>
>> > This suggested that no one had ever even mentioned the Shi'ar up till
>> > Jean stating her parents were members of that church. I knew that so
>> > since you suggested this was the first time the church had been
>> > mentioned I wasn't sure if it was accurate.
>>
>> > JLB
>>
>> This is very perturbing. Your question was about Jean's parents'
>> religious
>> affiliation. Why does it matter if the said religion itself was referred
>> to
>> before or since then?
>>
>> For example, I could tell you that Mr. so-and-so is Christian on August
>> 16th. Does you and I holding bible study for the past year affect when
>> Mr.
>> so-and-so was revealed to be a Christian?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> You can not reveal someone to be a member of something that does not
> exist yet. Your post suggested this was the first we'd heard of the
> Shi'ar church and in fictions things don't exist till they're revealed
> because they could be removed before then by an editor or author
> change. If you hadn't seen the issues with the Shi'ar church than the
> previous mentions of her parents religious affiliations might have
> been missed.
>
Sure you can. It's called "placeholder" and there's nothing wrong with
revealing som affiliation without explaining them first. Jean could easily
state that her parents are so-and-so denomination without explaining what
that stood for. Your original question, once again, was that whether her
parents' religious affiliation was revealed previously and the answer is
still no. I don't know why you keep arguing that the term "Shi'ar" has been
used before.
 >> Stay informed about: Question about Ultimate Jean Grey 

On Aug 17, 10:24 am, Painter <aw.pSaTiOnP....TakeThisOut@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 04:56:04 -0700, JLB <barn....TakeThisOut@shentel.net> wrote:
> > Your post suggested this was the first we'd heard of the
> >Shi'ar church and in fictions things don't exist till they're revealed
> >because they could be removed before then by an editor or author
> >change.
>
> No, his post was "Is the revelation of the fact *her parents were
> members of the Shi'ar church* new, or was it previously revealed?" The
> part in between the asterisks, in its entirety, is the "fact" he
> wanted verified, not the church's existence. Maybe it's a bit
> cumbersomely worded, but still clear enough.
>
> If I were to rephrase it...
>
> "In the last issue, Jean mentioned that her parents were members of
> the Church of Shi'ar. Has this fact been mentioned before?"
>
> I don't know if that reads better or worse, frankly.
>
> The answer to the question is, in my recollection, no. Jean's comment
> jumped out at me when I read that.
>
> P.

Thanks for the extra confirmation.

Though there seems to be a bit of confusion in a simple question. You
corrected me on a post I wrote, and for the record, "It was revealed
just that once. The term Shi'ar didn't even appear in Ultimate
Universe until then," is why I thought he was saying the Shi'ar had
never been mentioned in the UU before.

JLB
 >> Stay informed about: Question about Ultimate Jean Grey 

"JLB" <barnett DeleteThis @shentel.net> wrote in message
news:1187366440.673973.214550@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 17, 10:24 am, Painter <aw.pSaTiOnP... DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 04:56:04 -0700, JLB <barn... DeleteThis @shentel.net> wrote:
>> > Your post suggested this was the first we'd heard of the
>> >Shi'ar church and in fictions things don't exist till they're revealed
>> >because they could be removed before then by an editor or author
>> >change.
>>
>> No, his post was "Is the revelation of the fact *her parents were
>> members of the Shi'ar church* new, or was it previously revealed?" The
>> part in between the asterisks, in its entirety, is the "fact" he
>> wanted verified, not the church's existence. Maybe it's a bit
>> cumbersomely worded, but still clear enough.
>>
>> If I were to rephrase it...
>>
>> "In the last issue, Jean mentioned that her parents were members of
>> the Church of Shi'ar. Has this fact been mentioned before?"
>>
>> I don't know if that reads better or worse, frankly.
>>
>> The answer to the question is, in my recollection, no. Jean's comment
>> jumped out at me when I read that.
>>
>> P.
>
> Thanks for the extra confirmation.
>
> Though there seems to be a bit of confusion in a simple question. You
> corrected me on a post I wrote, and for the record, "It was revealed
> just that once. The term Shi'ar didn't even appear in Ultimate
> Universe until then," is why I thought he was saying the Shi'ar had
> never been mentioned in the UU before.
>
> JLB
>
As far as the Ultimate Universe timeline is concerned, Shi'ar was revealed
rather recently. I thought you meant it was revealed while Mark Millar was
still writing the book. Sorry about the confusion.

In any case, the current writer is just going through back issues of regular
X-titles and putting stuff in in random order so who cares?
 >> Stay informed about: Question about Ultimate Jean Grey 

> that stood for. Your original question, once again, was that whether her
> parents' religious affiliation was revealed previously and the answer is
> still no.

Actually, the answer to the original question is yes. In fact, it was
a major plot during the "Phoenix?" arc. I don't have the issue in
front of me, but I found an online review here that describes the
relevant scene in Ultimate X-men #71:

[http://comicbookrevolution.blogspot.com/2006/06/comic-book-review-
ultimate-x-men-71.html]

"We cut back to Jean Grey waking up. Lilandra's assistant informs her
that Jean Grey cannot be the Phoenix since Jean's blood analysis
contains none of the Phoenix's' properties enumerated in the tomes.
Further, that Jean's parents were members of the Church of the Shi'ar
Enlightenment. That Jean must have heard stories of the Phoenix when
she was very young and that when her powers began to manifest, her
mind couldn't comprehend what was happening so her mind uses who she
remembered about the Phoenix so she could make her powers into
something she could understand. That Jean has constricted split
personalities to help her deal with having mutant powers. Jean than
rants that she is not crazy."
 >> Stay informed about: Question about Ultimate Jean Grey 

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 04:56:04 -0700, JLB <barnett.RemoveThis@shentel.net> wrote:


> Your post suggested this was the first we'd heard of the
>Shi'ar church and in fictions things don't exist till they're revealed
>because they could be removed before then by an editor or author
>change.

No, his post was "Is the revelation of the fact *her parents were
members of the Shi'ar church* new, or was it previously revealed?" The
part in between the asterisks, in its entirety, is the "fact" he
wanted verified, not the church's existence. Maybe it's a bit
cumbersomely worded, but still clear enough.

If I were to rephrase it...

"In the last issue, Jean mentioned that her parents were members of
the Church of Shi'ar. Has this fact been mentioned before?"

I don't know if that reads better or worse, frankly.

The answer to the question is, in my recollection, no. Jean's comment
jumped out at me when I read that.

P.
 >> Stay informed about: Question about Ultimate Jean Grey 

On Aug 16, 3:50 pm, grinningdemon <grinningde....TakeThisOut@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 16:37:54 GMT, "Kenneth M. Lin"
>
>
>
>
>
> <kenneth_m_....TakeThisOut@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> >"JLB" <barn....TakeThisOut@shentel.net> wrote in message
> >news:1187263683.561986.155320@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Aug 16, 12:18 am, "Kenneth M. Lin" <kenneth_m_....TakeThisOut@sbcglobal.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>> "JLB" <barn....TakeThisOut@shentel.net> wrote in message
>
> >>>news:1187232055.658122.154700@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...> Is the
> >>> revelation of the fact her parents were members of the Shi'ar
> >>> > church new, or was it previously revealed?
>
> >>> > JLB
>
> >>> It was revealed just that once. The term Shi'ar didn't even appear in
> >>> Ultimate Universe until then.
>
> >>> In all honesty, the Ultimate Shi'ar sounds a whole lot like Scientology.
> >>> And Ultimate Phoenix will look like a turkey.
>
> >> They've mentioned the Shi'ar several times. We've even met Lilandra
> >> and they have a member of the church working at the school, since they
> >> invested some money in the place.
>
> >> JLB
>
> >Yes, Shi'ar was brought up in many issues. However, your original question
> >was if Jean's parents belonging to Shi'ar has been revealed before. I
> >answered no and cannot understand why you responded with something
> >completely different.
>
> Am I the only one who's sick of them drawing out the Phoenix story
> line? It started in Millar's run and it just keeps going on and
> on...they should either do something with it or drop it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Personally, I like Pheonix. But I honestly don't see it as a story
line, more of a plot point.
 >> Stay informed about: Question about Ultimate Jean Grey 

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:00:40 -0700, JLB <barnett.RemoveThis@shentel.net> wrote:


>
>Thanks for the extra confirmation.
>
>Though there seems to be a bit of confusion in a simple question. You
>corrected me on a post I wrote, and for the record, "It was revealed
>just that once. The term Shi'ar didn't even appear in Ultimate
>Universe until then," is why I thought he was saying the Shi'ar had
>never been mentioned in the UU before.
>
>JLB

This whole thread has gotten confusing, but that's the purpose of the
internet, isn't it? Well, that and porn...

Actually, I think my reply was intended for the person you were
arguing with, not you, but I'm no longer sure of that.

P
 >> Stay informed about: Question about Ultimate Jean Grey