Uncanny #444 preview comments

mayd01 wrote:
 >
 > "Brian Doyle" <No_spam.TakeThisOut@freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<c6vvo0$eed$2@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>...
  > > "Patrick McClue" <mcclue.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
  > > news:c6uusm$giu4g$1@ID-183337.news.uni-berlin.de...
   > > > You can see first looks at
<font color=brown>   > > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0404/29/marvelfirsts.htm.</font" target="_blank">http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0404/29/marvelfirsts.htm.</font</a>>
   > > >
   > > > Three things that made me say "huh?":
  > >
   > > > 2) Emma playing baseball?!?
  > >
  > > She's trying very hard to fit into her new approach to the role of
  > > Headmistress.
 >
 > I was hoping that Marvel would put Rachel on Cykes and the White
 > Queens team. Talk about tension!

Given her father is widely speculated to be Wolvy instead of Scott?
--
Jon
-----
Cats are the embodiment of angels here on Earth.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Patrick McClue wrote:
 >
 > "Dan McEwen" <dannyboymcny.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
 > news:c71lqf$folcj$10@ID-177615.news.uni-berlin.de...
  > > "Patrick McClue" <mcclue.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in
  > > news:c6uusm$giu4g$1@ID-183337.news.uni-berlin.de:
  > >
   > > > You can see first looks at
<font color=brown>   > > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0404/29/marvelfirsts.htm.</font" target="_blank">http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0404/29/marvelfirsts.htm.</font</a>>
   > > >
   > > > Three things that made me say "huh?":
   > > >
   > > > 1) That's Bishop?
  > >
  > > Apparently.
  > >
   > > > 2) Emma playing baseball?!?
  > >
  > > I had a similar reaction.
  > >
   > > > 3) Rachel Grey?
  > >
  > > Grey? No, Summers.
 >
 > Not sure if you are agreeing or correcting, but on page 3 it says "...Rachel
 > Grey, the newly-minted Marvel Girl."

She may be accepting that Cyke isn't her father


--
Jon
-----
Cats are the embodiment of angels here on Earth.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Janus" <janusredway.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94DD66A14B5D8janusredwayyahoocom@216.77.188.18...
 > "Brian Doyle" <No_spam.RemoveThis@freeserve.co.uk> wrote in news:c72bn8$9vo$3
 > @news8.svr.pol.co.uk:
 >
  > > The New Mutants v1 never had one.
  > >
 >
 > Karma and Mirage both have certain telepathic abbilities.

Ummm, no, they were psionic, but neither were telepathic. Telepathy is
"defined" as being the ability to communicate mind to mind, to transmit
language and receive the same in return. Neither qualify.

Karma could neither read minds nor use her powers to communicate with
others. She took over peoples bodies, shutting down the existing
consicousness, and that was it. Any additional powers she developed (much,
much later) were solely a result of what seems to be the same sort of sloppy
writing that made Tessa a psi (Heck, made Tessa a mutant at all), when in
the "New Mutants: Truth or Death" miniseries, she started editing memories
of dozens of people and the like, without anyone (including her) noticing
that she had just pulled a completely new set of powers out of the air

Mirage was not telepathic either, she could pull out illusions of specific
emotions (but even then never knew what that image would be until it
appeared) and had a low key empathic link to certain animals, but nothing
complex, and not with humans.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Janus" <janusredway RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94DD896AA9283janusredwayyahoocom@216.77.188.18...
 > clJUNKv1 RemoveThis @balcab.ch (CleV) wrote in news:40951de7.14747697@news.hispeed.ch:
 >
  > > On Sun, 02 May 2004 14:03:01 GMT, Janus <janusredway RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
  > >
   > >>"Brian Doyle" <No_spam RemoveThis @freeserve.co.uk> wrote in news:c72bn8$9vo$3
   > >>@news8.svr.pol.co.uk:
  > >
   > >>> The New Mutants v1 never had one.
  > >
   > >>Karma and Mirage both have certain telepathic abbilities.
  > >
  > > They were both psis, but neither were telepathic. IIRC, the psychic
  > > bond between Mirage and Wolfsbane never extended into actual
  > > telepathic speech, although I could be wrong.
  > >
 >
 > I didn't say they communicated telepathically.

But that's what the discusssion was about, havine a team telepath to
communicate between the group.

 > Being able to influence minds is a telepathic ability,

Not in Marvelspeak, it's a psionic ability. Telepathy is a defined subgroup
of that.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Brian Doyle" <No_spam.TakeThisOut@freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
news:c73kf4$uh0$3@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk:

 >
 > "Janus" <janusredway.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
 > news:Xns94DD66A14B5D8janusredwayyahoocom@216.77.188.18...
  >> "Brian Doyle" <No_spam.TakeThisOut@freeserve.co.uk> wrote in news:c72bn8$9vo$3
  >> @news8.svr.pol.co.uk:
  >>
   >> > The New Mutants v1 never had one.
   >> >
  >>
  >> Karma and Mirage both have certain telepathic abbilities.
 >
 > Ummm, no, they were psionic, but neither were telepathic. Telepathy is
 > "defined" as being the ability to communicate mind to mind, to
 > transmit language and receive the same in return. Neither qualify.
 >

telepathy

\Te*lep"a*thy\, n. [Gr. ? far off + ?, ?, to suffer.] The sympathetic
affection of one mind by the thoughts, feelings, or emotions of another
at a distance, without communication through the ordinary channels of
sensation. -- Tel`e*path\"ic, a. -- Te*lep\"a*thist, n.


Mirage pulls images out of people's minds (def. thoughts/feelings
emotions).

Karma puts controls minds (def. thoughts/feelings emotions).

Both qualify. Telepathic communcation is NOT the only basis of telepathy.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Brian Doyle" <No_spam.TakeThisOut@freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
news:c73kf5$uh0$4@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk:
 >
 > "Janus" <janusredway.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
 > news:Xns94DD896AA9283janusredwayyahoocom@216.77.188.18...
  >> clJUNKv1.TakeThisOut@balcab.ch (CleV) wrote in
  >> news:40951de7.14747697@news.hispeed.ch:
  >>
  >> I didn't say they communicated telepathically.
 >
 > But that's what the discusssion was about, havine a team telepath to
 > communicate between the group.
 >

There was no mention of communication in the post I replied to, only
telepathy.

  >> Being able to influence minds is a telepathic ability,
 >
 > Not in Marvelspeak, it's a psionic ability. Telepathy is a defined
 > subgroup of that.
 >

Well the Marvel definition is : "the psi ability to send or recieve
thoughts directly into or from other minds."-- OHotMU #4 Deluxe Edition
In my opinion Karma's thoughts are sent into her victims mind. -- I may
be wrong on this, because I first saw her in Wolverine's first series.
This is supported by Marvel's classification of Moondragon's powers. Her
ability to influence and control minds, erasing memories at times, is a
telepathic power. The handbook called Marvel Girl's psi-bolts telepathic
bolts. Neither of which involve communication.
Mirage definately pulls thoughts out of minds, whether those thoughts
are limited or not. Mirage can also communicate telepathically with
animals.
The handbook even hypothesized that Cypher's power was telepathically
based.



--<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Brian Doyle" <No_spam.RemoveThis@freeserve.co.uk> wrote in news:c73u5u$rk2$1
@news5.svr.pol.co.uk:

 > It is in my dictionary, but YMMV (and clearly does) and let's be honest
 > here, it's not a big deal.
 >
 >

True. However debates like this always enlighten me. Most times the debate
and historical research are more entertaining than current stories.

--<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Janus <janusredway.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:Xns94DDBB17990B0janusredwayyahoocom@216.77.188.18:
 > "Brian Doyle" <No_spam.TakeThisOut@freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
 > news:c73kf5$uh0$4@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk:
  >>
  >> "Janus" <janusredway.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
  >> news:Xns94DD896AA9283janusredwayyahoocom@216.77.188.18...
   >>> clJUNKv1.TakeThisOut@balcab.ch (CleV) wrote in
   >>> news:40951de7.14747697@news.hispeed.ch:
   >>>
   >>> I didn't say they communicated telepathically.
  >>
  >> But that's what the discusssion was about, havine a team telepath to
  >> communicate between the group.
  >>
 >
 > There was no mention of communication in the post I replied to, only
 > telepathy.

The idea I got from the discussion at that point was that it was
about the general "easy out" of having Marvel telepaths, and their
impact on writing convincing threats in stories. Thus the comparison
to the Avengers, and the later comments about Scarlet Witch being their
own personal deus ex machina, at least when Thor and others aren't
taking that role.

Being able to communicate telepathically isn't really that big a
deal when you compare it to the other things that Marvel telepaths
generally can do. (Heck, give everyone mechanical equivalents for
communication (like X-Treme X-Men's shades) and you've got at least
the team communication option.)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"lord zog" <evil_lord_zog.TakeThisOut@spin.net.au> wrote in message
news:4094BD48.D99371CC@spin.net.au...
 > mayd01 wrote:
  > >
  > > "Brian Doyle" <No_spam.TakeThisOut@freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<c6vvo0$eed$2@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>...
   > > > "Patrick McClue" <mcclue.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
   > > > news:c6uusm$giu4g$1@ID-183337.news.uni-berlin.de...
   > > > > You can see first looks at
<font color=brown>   > > > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0404/29/marvelfirsts.htm.</font" target="_blank">http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0404/29/marvelfirsts.htm.</font</a>>
   > > > >
   > > > > Three things that made me say "huh?":
   > > >
   > > > > 2) Emma playing baseball?!?
   > > >
   > > > She's trying very hard to fit into her new approach to the role of
   > > > Headmistress.
  > >
  > > I was hoping that Marvel would put Rachel on Cykes and the White
  > > Queens team. Talk about tension!
 >
 > Given her father is widely speculated to be Wolvy instead of Scott?
 > --

Here we go again!

Patrick<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Uncanny #444 preview comments 

"lord zog" <evil_lord_zog.RemoveThis@spin.net.au> wrote in message
news:4094BDB6.5E51B6C6@spin.net.au...
 > Patrick McClue wrote:
  > >
  > > "Dan McEwen" <dannyboymcny.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
  > > news:c71lqf$folcj$10@ID-177615.news.uni-berlin.de...
   > > > "Patrick McClue" <mcclue.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in
   > > > news:c6uusm$giu4g$1@ID-183337.news.uni-berlin.de:
   > > >
   > > > > You can see first looks at
<font color=brown>   > > > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0404/29/marvelfirsts.htm.</font" target="_blank">http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0404/29/marvelfirsts.htm.</font</a>>
   > > > >
   > > > > Three things that made me say "huh?":
   > > > >
   > > > > 1) That's Bishop?
   > > >
   > > > Apparently.
   > > >
   > > > > 2) Emma playing baseball?!?
   > > >
   > > > I had a similar reaction.
   > > >
   > > > > 3) Rachel Grey?
   > > >
   > > > Grey? No, Summers.
  > >
  > > Not sure if you are agreeing or correcting, but on page 3 it says
"...Rachel
  > > Grey, the newly-minted Marvel Girl."
 >
 > She may be accepting that Cyke isn't her father
 >
Second mention of this...where in-story do people get this from?

Patrick<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Patrick McClue" <mcclue.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c731e2$hki8q$1@ID-183337.news.uni-berlin.de...
 >
 > "lord zog" <evil_lord_zog.TakeThisOut@spin.net.au> wrote in message
 > news:4094BDB6.5E51B6C6@spin.net.au...
  > > Patrick McClue wrote:
   > > >
   > > > "Dan McEwen" <dannyboymcny.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
   > > > news:c71lqf$folcj$10@ID-177615.news.uni-berlin.de...
   > > > > "Patrick McClue" <mcclue.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in
   > > > > news:c6uusm$giu4g$1@ID-183337.news.uni-berlin.de:
   > > > >
   > > > > > You can see first looks at
<font color=brown>   > > > > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0404/29/marvelfirsts.htm.</font" target="_blank">http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0404/29/marvelfirsts.htm.</font</a>>
   > > > > >
   > > > > > Three things that made me say "huh?":
   > > > > >
   > > > > > 1) That's Bishop?
   > > > >
   > > > > Apparently.
   > > > >
   > > > > > 2) Emma playing baseball?!?
   > > > >
   > > > > I had a similar reaction.
   > > > >
   > > > > > 3) Rachel Grey?
   > > > >
   > > > > Grey? No, Summers.
   > > >
   > > > Not sure if you are agreeing or correcting, but on page 3 it says
 > "...Rachel
   > > > Grey, the newly-minted Marvel Girl."
  > >
  > > She may be accepting that Cyke isn't her father
  > >
 > Second mention of this...where in-story do people get this from?

Something involving hounds.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Janus" <janusredway.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94DDBB17990B0janusredwayyahoocom@216.77.188.18...

 > There was no mention of communication in the post I replied to, only
 > telepathy.

When discussing a team telepath as we were, it's usual to mean the one with
the actual ability to form a telepathic communication link between members,
but....

 > Well the Marvel definition is : "the psi ability to send or recieve
 > thoughts directly into or from other minds."-- OHotMU #4 Deluxe Edition
 > In my opinion Karma's thoughts are sent into her victims mind. -- I may
 > be wrong on this, because I first saw her in Wolverine's first series.

Karma's entire persona _replaces_ her victims persona (not just thoughts,
the whole shebang). She has no means of ciimmunicating with the host, or
readin their mind or anyhting. The target mind is shut down, and basically
in fuge state for the time she is "in" there.

 > This is supported by Marvel's classification of Moondragon's powers. Her
 > ability to influence and control minds, erasing memories at times, is a
 > telepathic power. The handbook called Marvel Girl's psi-bolts telepathic
 > bolts. Neither of which involve communication.

Fair enough, but I'd say much of that was down to the fact that the term
"psionic" wasn't in much use back when both of those characters were
created, but that's a guess.

 > Mirage definately pulls thoughts out of minds, whether those thoughts
 > are limited or not.

Semantics here, but she pulls images, not thoughts. She has no idea WHY an
image is scary to a person, just that that is an image which scares them.
She can't access memories directly or in context.

 >Mirage can also communicate telepathically with animals.

Fair enough on that one too.

 > The handbook even hypothesized that Cypher's power was telepathically
based.

Yes, but freely admitted that that didn't come close to explaining some of
his powers, such as the ability to translate the written language of an
alien species who have been extinct for thousands of years (The ones who
built the Dyson Sphere that Lila Cheney uses). Lanugage-specific psychometry
might feature in it too, but this was never expanded on.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Janus" <janusredway.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94DDB45DACB13janusredwayyahoocom@216.77.188.18...
 > "Brian Doyle" <No_spam.TakeThisOut@freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
 > news:c73kf4$uh0$3@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk:
 >
  > >
  > > "Janus" <janusredway.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
  > > news:Xns94DD66A14B5D8janusredwayyahoocom@216.77.188.18...
   > >> "Brian Doyle" <No_spam.TakeThisOut@freeserve.co.uk> wrote in news:c72bn8$9vo$3
   > >> @news8.svr.pol.co.uk:
   > >>
   > >> > The New Mutants v1 never had one.
   > >> >
   > >>
   > >> Karma and Mirage both have certain telepathic abbilities.
  > >
  > > Ummm, no, they were psionic, but neither were telepathic. Telepathy is
  > > "defined" as being the ability to communicate mind to mind, to
  > > transmit language and receive the same in return. Neither qualify.
 >
 > telepathy
 >
 > \Te*lep"a*thy\, n. [Gr. ? far off + ?, ?, to suffer.]
 > The sympathetic affection of one mind by the thoughts, feelings, or
emotions of another
 > at a distance, without communication through the ordinary channels of
 > sensation. -- Tel`e*path\"ic, a. -- Te*lep\"a*thist, n.

From Greek tele Far
Greek pathaeia Feeling/perception

"Communication between people of thoughts, feelings, desires etc. involving
mechanisms that cannot be be unsderstood in terms of known scientific laws"

 > Mirage pulls images out of people's minds (def. thoughts/feelings
emotions).

Again, no, images only. She has no sense of context, just an image, which
she isn't even aware of when she uses her power. She can direct her power to
a specific emotion but again, has no idea what the result means.

 > Karma puts controls minds (def. thoughts/feelings emotions).
 > Both qualify. Telepathic communcation is NOT the only basis of telepathy.

It is in my dictionary, but YMMV (and clearly does) and let's be honest
here, it's not a big deal. <!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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