Unspeakably Awful 'Foundation' Movie To Be Made

On Jul 30, 12:19 pm, nebu... RemoveThis @-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) wrote:
> Granted, the intention is probably not to make an unspeakably
> awful movie based on Asimov's _Foundation_ series, but I think you and
> I both know that's going to happen, don't we?

I think it may be premature to condemn the "Foundation" movie project
to unspeakable awfulness.

As the report mentioned, the producers' last movie was "The Last
Mimzy" - and while it was financially unsuccessful and poorly
reviewed, it was in no way a typical mindless Hollywood blockbuster-
wannabe. Shaye and Lynne seem to be committed to making serious and
thoughtful SF films based on genre classics (although their competence
at same has yet to be proven).

(Disclaimer: I liked the "I, Robot" movie.)
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On 30 Jul, 05:19, nebu... RemoveThis @-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) wrote:
> Granted, the intention is probably not to make an unspeakably
> awful movie based on Asimov's _Foundation_ series, but I think you and
> I both know that's going to happen, don't we?

I don't know if it's going to be unspeakably awful but I
certainly expect it to be highly inadequate, at best a timid
taster of the real thing. The only way to do justice to the
Foundation series would be through a multi-episode
animated series. I'm saying animated so that one can
present on the screen anything they like without worrying
about budget.
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On Jul 29, 10:19 pm, nebu... RemoveThis @-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) wrote:
> Granted, the intention is probably not to make an unspeakably
> awful movie based on Asimov's _Foundation_ series, but I think you and
> I both know that's going to happen, don't we?

There was a low-budget movie made based on Nightfall by a filmmaker
who was best known formerly for horror flicks that was... passable if
not great. So anything is possible, although I share your fears.

John Savard
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On Jul 30, 5:45 pm, thro... RemoveThis @sheol.org (Wayne Throop) wrote:
>
> That's what I would have thought too (though tending towards
> "maybe not unspeakable, but still pretty awful, and definitely
> inadequate")... but, I note I expected that for "I, Robot" also, yet
> they managed to make a reasonably good movie. So, if they were to do
> something similar, they could make an action-adventure movie about one of
> the formative incidents pre-Mule, or possibly during the Mule incident;
> not adapt one of the existing stories, but tell an action-adventure
> story in the same setting and making some of the same abstract points.

The people behind "I, Robot" are not the same people trying to make a
"Foundation" movie.

I doubt their intent is to make an action-adventure. I suspect (okay,
hope) they'll go more in the direction of socio-political thriller. I
also doubt they'd resist the temptation to have at least one gigantic
CGI space battle scene.
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On 30 Jul, 10:01, Quadibloc <jsav....DeleteThis@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Jul 29, 10:19 pm, nebu....DeleteThis@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) wrote:
>
> > Granted, the intention is probably not to make an unspeakably
> > awful movie based on Asimov's _Foundation_ series, but I think you and
> > I both know that's going to happen, don't we?
>
> There was a low-budget movie made based on Nightfall by a filmmaker
> who was best known formerly for horror flicks that was... passable if
> not great. So anything is possible, although I share your fears.

I've never watched Nightfall nor I ever will. The story* is as
abstract as a story can get and any attempt to make it into
a movie will just add heaps of unnecessary and distracting
details to the awe inspiring ideas and atmosphere of the story.
Nevertheless prompted by your comment that the movie is
passable I checked the first 2 pages of IMDB comments and
it doesn't look as if anyone agrees with you. The following
comment from page 2 is quite amusing:

When I saw this movie in the theater the ticket seller
actually warned me that a lot of people didn't like it
and that I could have my money back if I left in the
first 15 minutes.


* I have only read the short story and I intend to keep it like
this.
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Spiros Bousbouras wrote:

>I don't know if it's going to be unspeakably awful but I
>certainly expect it to be highly inadequate, at best a timid
>taster of the real thing. The only way to do justice to the
>Foundation series would be through a multi-episode
>animated series. I'm saying animated so that one can
>present on the screen anything they like without worrying
>about budget.

Well, there's the problem. The Foundation Trilogy doesn't really
call for anything that would break a special effects budget. I
believe the only space battle described is just that... described
at a meeting, and then passed over with, "...and now to important
matters." Spending time showing the battle, or other big-screen
visuals just takes away from the more important matters.

(Disclaimer: I thought the last line of the "Nightfall" movie
went a long way to redeeming that dud.)

--
-Jack
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"Spiros Bousbouras" <spibou.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a683d58f-3da2-412b-b073-529543226ede@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On 30 Jul, 10:01, Quadibloc <jsav....DeleteThis@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> On Jul 29, 10:19 pm, nebu....DeleteThis@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) wrote:
>>
>> > Granted, the intention is probably not to make an unspeakably
>> > awful movie based on Asimov's _Foundation_ series, but I think you and
>> > I both know that's going to happen, don't we?
>>
>> There was a low-budget movie made based on Nightfall by a filmmaker
>> who was best known formerly for horror flicks that was... passable if
>> not great. So anything is possible, although I share your fears.
>
> I've never watched Nightfall nor I ever will. The story* is as
> abstract as a story can get and any attempt to make it into
> a movie will just add heaps of unnecessary and distracting
> details to the awe inspiring ideas and atmosphere of the story.
[....]
> * I have only read the short story and I intend to keep it like
> this.

I think Nightfall [the short] could be made into a superior movie.

It wouldn't suffer from the pitfall of most novel-to-movie adaptations of
length.

It would have to be mostly dialogue driven and so would need superior
screenwriters and actors to carry that dialogue.

Even allowing for that it's ending could include a dramatic action-ish
climax with a CGI final eclipse and ensuing collapse of civilization.

I think it *could* work well. Whether or not any combination of movie types
would manage to get it all right _and_ be a commercial success... I wouldn't
be optimistic,

I also think most of the above would apply to the Foundation series
excepting that it would tilt a little more towards action and might have
some minor length issues unless done as a 2 or 3 movie series of the
original trilogy.

Things I would like to see brought life in CGI:

-The aforementioned eclipse sequence and end-of-world riot from Nightfall.

-Views of Trantor from orbit and ground from Foundation.
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On Jul 30, 1:23�am, traws....RemoveThis@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 30, 12:19 pm, nebu....RemoveThis@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) wrote:
>
> > � � � � Granted, the intention is probably not to make an unspeakably
> > awful movie based on Asimov's _Foundation_ series, but I think you and
> > I both know that's going to happen, don't we?
>
> I think it may be premature to condemn the "Foundation" movie project
> to unspeakable awfulness.
>
> As the report mentioned, the producers' last movie was "The Last
> Mimzy" - and while it was financially unsuccessful and poorly
> reviewed, it was in no way a typical mindless Hollywood blockbuster-
> wannabe. Shaye and Lynne seem to be committed to making serious and
> thoughtful SF films based on genre classics (although their competence
> at same has yet to be proven).
>
> (Disclaimer: I liked the "I, Robot" movie.)

"Serious: and :"thoughtful" for some values of those words, perhaps.
As storytelling, The Last Mimzy was incompetent even by Hollywood
standards, the bones of the story floating grotesquely in a soup of
cliche
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On Jul 30, 4:17�am, Jack Bohn <jackb... DeleteThis @bright.net> wrote:
> Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
> >I don't know if it's going to be unspeakably awful but I
> >certainly expect it to be highly inadequate, at best a timid
> >taster of the real thing. The only way to do justice to the
> >Foundation series would be through a multi-episode
> >animated series. I'm saying animated so that one can
> >present on the screen anything they like without worrying
> >about budget.
>
> Well, there's the problem. �The Foundation Trilogy doesn't really
> call for anything that would break a special effects budget. �I
> believe the only space battle described is just that... described
> at a meeting, and then passed over with, "...and now to important
> matters." �Spending time showing the battle, or other big-screen
> visuals just takes away from the more important matters.
>
> (Disclaimer: I thought the last line of the "Nightfall" movie
> went a long way to redeeming that dud.)
>
> --
> -Jack

The problem seems to be that the "Hollywood" repertoire of motivations
and allowable dramatic situations seems stuck on a comic book level.
There is plenty of drama in the Foundation trilogy -- but it tends to
center on dilemmas rather than fistfights. I am not sanguin that the
team that made The Last Mimzy has any likelihood of seeing what's
actually there, let alone crafting a credible adaptation.
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On 2008-07-30 00:23:43 -0700, trawsars.RemoveThis@hotmail.com said:

> On Jul 30, 12:19 pm, nebu....RemoveThis@-rpi-.edu (Joseph Nebus) wrote:
>> Granted, the intention is probably not to make an unspeakably
>> awful movie based on Asimov's _Foundation_ series, but I think you and
>> I both know that's going to happen, don't we?
>
> I think it may be premature to condemn the "Foundation" movie project
> to unspeakable awfulness.
>
> As the report mentioned, the producers' last movie was "The Last
> Mimzy" - and while it was financially unsuccessful and poorly
> reviewed, it was in no way a typical mindless Hollywood blockbuster-
> wannabe. Shaye and Lynne seem to be committed to making serious and
> thoughtful SF films based on genre classics (although their competence
> at same has yet to be proven).
>
> (Disclaimer: I liked the "I, Robot" movie.)

I may have already cast out my memories of THE LAST MIMZY, but I seem
to recall that they were definitely trying for standardized Hollywood
success, forcing the story into the mold of E.T.

Cool thing from elsewhere arrives on scene, found by two kids who are
enchanted by it and hide it, one kid worrisome, one enraptured. Cool
thing shows kids wonders, attracting attention of Repressive Gummint.
Repressive Gummint tries to assert control, but kids and cool thing
escape, with kids ultimately allowing cool thing to go home.

I wouldn't assume they'll do it again, but I'm not encouraged by their
thought processes. On the one hand, THE LAST MIMZY looks like an
attempt to replicate a previous blockbuster's success, regardless ofthe
source material, and on the other, the idea of doing FOUNDATION can
boil down to "We made major bank with a famous trilogy, let's replicate
that past success!"

Treating a project as unique and deserving of being taken on its own
terms doesn't seem to be anywhere near as important as Doing What
Worked Before.

So I'd guess that It's A Famous Trilogy appeals to the fundraising side
of things, while We Can Make It Into Something Familiar my inform the
creative side.

Could be I'm wrong, but I don't see the hope in THE LAST MIMZY that you do.

kdb
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: Spiros Bousbouras <spibou.TakeThisOut@gmail.com>
: I don't know if it's going to be unspeakably awful but I
: certainly expect it to be highly inadequate, at best a timid
: taster of the real thing.

That's what I would have thought too (though tending towards
"maybe not unspeakable, but still pretty awful, and definitely
inadequate")... but, I note I expected that for "I, Robot" also, yet
they managed to make a reasonably good movie. So, if they were to do
something similar, they could make an action-adventure movie about one of
the formative incidents pre-Mule, or possibly during the Mule incident;
not adapt one of the existing stories, but tell an action-adventure
story in the same setting and making some of the same abstract points.

Mileage varies, and some folks think "I, Robot" *is* a horrid botch.
But I was pleasantly surprised by it, so there may be some small chance
of getting something interesting.


Wayne Throop throopw.TakeThisOut@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
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On 30 Jul, 18:01, mimus <tinmimu....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:53:51 -0700, Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
> > The only way to do justice to the Foundation series would be through a
> > multi-episode animated series.
>
> If you like cartoons, maybe.

If you like movies. Animated or with humans is just a
technicality.
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"Bill Patterson" <WHPatterson.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c74edb69-02f2-45f2-90a1-236acfb07f34@a3g2000prm.googlegroups.com...

>The problem seems to be that the "Hollywood" repertoire of motivations
>and allowable dramatic situations seems stuck on a comic book level.
>There is plenty of drama in the Foundation trilogy -- but it tends to
>center on dilemmas rather than fistfights.

I think the vignette with the courtroom scene where... was it Mallow?... is
on trial for abandoning the supposed Foundation missionary is within
Hollywood's abilities. They could treat it like an archetypal court case
movie.
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