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Why didn't the Valar eliminate Sauron?

 
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Mr. Finsky

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Since: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 1



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:06 pm
Post subject: Why didn't the Valar eliminate Sauron?
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books>tolkien (more info?)

The First Age primarily consisted of the "War" between the Valar and
Elves versus Morgoth (or Melkor). This was a classic good vs. evil
tale like many great mythologies. The Age ended when Good defeated
Evil and Morgoth was banished.

However, the Valar left behind an incredibly powerful source of Evil
in Morgoth's main lieutenant Sauron. Most Elves went to the Undying
Lands and the greatest class of Men were given Numenor. That left the
dregs of Men and some scattered Elves (although some of great stature
like Cirdan and Galadriel) to defend Middle-Earth from one of the most
powerful Maia in Sauron. Even Gandalf and Saruman (when good) were no
match for Sauron. The other wizards were even less effective as direct
counterbalances to the evil in Middle-Earth. This seems quite
neglectful of the Valar.

I realize that Sauron was needed to be an enemy of Numenor and the
source for their fall. I also realize that Sauron was needed to create
the background that lead to LOTR.

I just don't get how you can leave behind Sauron as a threat to
Numenor and the Elves, and let Sauron dominate the Third Age. Did any
Vala even visit Middle-Earth during the 2nd and 3rd Ages? The Vala
seem like they care only about Elves and not the rest of Middle-Earth.
My conclusion is that the Vala were hardly "Guardians of the West".

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the_stan_brown

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Since: Jan 01, 2004
Posts: 752



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Why didn't the Valar eliminate Sauron? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:57:40 +0200 from Troels Forchhammer
<Troels.DeleteThis@ThisIsFake.invalid>:
> Sauron was merely a servant to Melkor, and after the War of Wrath he
> was truly repenting

Maybe. In "Of the Rings of Power" Tolkien precedes the statement
about Sauron's repentance with "Some have said".

> just as Frodo does for Saruman, the Valar would have left Sauron
> free to find his own healing

I don't think that follows at all. Frodo was not Saruman's superior,
much less the guardian of the World, but the Valar were both. Where
Frodo did not have the responsibility for Saruman's healing nor the
authority to constrain him, the Valar indubitably had the authority
to order Sauron to submit and arguably had the responsibility to heal
him if he would allow it.

And anyway, the reasons for letting Sauron go free were exactly the
same as those for letting Morgoth go free. No one, I think, has
argued that Morgoth should have been left free to seek his own
healing; why, then, should Sauron?

Eönwë "had no authority to pardon those of his own order", but since
he did have the authority to drag Morgoth back to Valinor in chains
he certainly had the authority to command Sauron to return to Valinor
for the judgment and pardon of the Valar. There should have been no
need for compulsion, since if Sauron objected to going he would be
showing that his repentance was not sincere -- in which case Eönwë
could and should have dragged Sauron back to Valinor with his
erstwhile master.

I think the explanation is simpler: Eönwë goofed. He told Sauron to
return to Valinor and assumed that Sauron would do so.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen's site)
Tolkien letters FAQ:
http://mysite.verizon.net/aznirb/mtr/lettersfaq.html
FAQ of the Rings: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm
Encyclopedia of Arda: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm
more FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm

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Öjevind_Lång

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Since: Jul 18, 2008
Posts: 20



(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Why didn't the Valar eliminate Sauron? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books>tolkien, others (more info?)

"Troels Forchhammer" <Troels.TakeThisOut@ThisIsFake.invalid> skrev i meddelandet
news:Xns9AE9F3BEF1C71T.Forch@130.133.1.4...
> In message <news:6208872.LVueznkDK2@cedar.serverforest.com>
> Derek Broughton <news.TakeThisOut@pointerstop.ca> spoke these staves:

[snip]

>> I think the Age actually ended with the breaking of Arda, and the
>> removal of the Valar from active intervention in the world. They
>> realized that no matter how evil Morgoth was, it was up to the
>> Children of Eru to make of the world what they would, and that
>> enacting the Valar's wars across the world was hardly less evil
>> than allowing Morgoth to continue.
>
> That is certainly part of the picture, and the reason why there was
> no second War of Wrath where the armies of the West came to vanquish
> Sauron. I am, however, not sure that this actually answers Mr
> Finsky's question with regards to Sauron -- as I understand it, the
> question is really why Sauron was not brought back to Valinor in
> chains after the War of Wrath, presumably to be expelled into the
> Void along with his old master, but at the very least to ensure that
> he could not work any more evil.

I suppose Sauron managed to sneak out of the back door in time. Not for
nothing did he have some feline features, such as "eyes slitted like those
of a cat". And of course, originally Tolkien perceived him as a demon in cat
shape called Tevildo. Tolkien really had it in for cats, didn't he?

Öjevind
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