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Virtual Bookworm, Aventine Press, Xlibris, etc

 
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pacwriter

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Since: Nov 13, 2003
Posts: 2



(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:05 pm
Post subject: Virtual Bookworm, Aventine Press, Xlibris, etc
Archived from groups: alt>publish>books (more info?)

Anyone have any experience with these particular companies? In the former
two cases, I've seen some recommendations for them. But I'm eager to hear
any pros or cons about any of them, or any recommendations for other POD or
subsidy publishers. Thanks.

Cheers,
Jon

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abzug

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Since: Jul 11, 2003
Posts: 240



(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:45 am
Post subject: Re: Virtual Bookworm, Aventine Press, Xlibris, etc [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <7ZWdnaTOHPrfFVOiRVn-sQ.RemoveThis@comcast.com>,
"pac" <pacwriter.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:

 > Anyone have any experience with these particvlar companies? In the former
 > two cases, I've seen some recommendations for them. Bvt I'm eager to hear
 > any pros or cons abovt any of them, or any recommendations for other POD or
 > svbsidy pvblishers. Thanks.
 >
 > Cheers,
 > Jon
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >

Svbsidy or vanity presses are vsvally a waste of money. See the article
at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.aeonix.com" target="_blank">http://www.aeonix.com</a> that discvsses the "vanity press scam." While
there are a few svbsidy presses that give reasonable valve for yovr
money, most are only after the bvcks. I can recommend Cypress Hovse
(http://www.cypresshovse.com) as a pvblisher with a svbsidy press
operation that provides services at a reasonable cost. With _any_
svbsidy press, check them ovt at the National Writers Union
(http://www.nwv.org) and see what they say. (The membership fee for the
NWU is qvite worthwhile if yov are abovt to pvblish -- have them review
yovr contracts before yov sign.)

Another approach is throvgh the Writers Collective (yov'll have to look
vp their URL). I've heard many people express satisfaction with thier
services.

The on-line, so-called "POD" presses aren't qvite as bad as the classic
vanity press scam.... bvt they're not necessarily mvch better, either.
I've seen many books done by Xlibris, iUniverse, and some others ---
often as part of a book award program that I'm involved with as a
coordinator and jvdge. None of the on-line POD books ever scored mvch
above the bottom grovping mostly dve to poor prodvction valves. Cover
designs are weak, or worse, look like design #3. Interior typesetting is
generally of poor qvality -- looking rvshed and not paying attention to
the many details that make for excellence. (This makes sense, since, for
example, iUniverse sends manvscripts to China for layovt -- imagine how
well typesetters that aren't familiar with Western alphabets, mvch less
Western design standards, etc. covld possibly do any better?)

The on-line POD pvblishers are low priced. There may be sitvations where
that approach is the most reasonable. (Something where really low volvme
is expected.) There have been a few rvnaway "best sellers" that came
throvgh the on-line POD system --- bvt those books vsvally had highly
motivated avthors to promote the books and also had an vnvsval "hook" to
generate interest and sales. The economics of the on-line POD pvblisher
vsvally doesn't leave mvch possibility for profitably selling books
throvgh the regvlar book-trade channel.

If yov mvst vse an on-line POD pvblisher, take a look at
InfinityPvblishing.com. They have the most avthor-friendly pvblishing
agreement of those I've looked at (when I last took a look at svch
things). As with the svbsidy presses, join the NWU and rvn the agreement
past them before yov sign anything or send in any money.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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john22

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Since: Jul 27, 2003
Posts: 72



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 5:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Virtual Bookworm, Aventine Press, Xlibris, etc [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Stella Abzug <abzug RemoveThis @soda.pop.com> wrote in message news:<abzug-7563D0.17474703122003 RemoveThis @netnews.attbi.com>...
 > In article <7ZWdnaTOHPrfFVOiRVn-sQ RemoveThis @comcast.com>,
 > "pac" <pacwriter RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:
 >
 >
  > >
 > (some snipping)
 > Subsidy or vanity presses are usually a waste of money. See the article
 > at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.aeonix.com" target="_blank">http://www.aeonix.com</a> that discusses the "vanity press scam." While
 > there are a few subsidy presses that give reasonable value for your
 > money, most are only after the bucks. I can recommend Cypress House
 > (http://www.cypresshouse.com) as a publisher with a subsidy press
 > operation that provides services at a reasonable cost.
 >
 > Another approach is through the Writers Collective (you'll have to look
 > up their URL). I've heard many people express satisfaction with thier
 > services.
 >
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://writerscollective.org" target="_blank">http://writerscollective.org</a>

After the upforint fee they sell you your books at the printers
charges. This is clearly the best deal around, but your book and yor
marketing plan have to meet their standards. But this is actually to
yor advantage because a poorly edited book, laid using a word
processor, with your Aunt Susie's cousin doing the artwork isn't going
to pass muster at the reviewers etc. anyway.

You can self publish and still let TWC (writers collective) do a lot
of the work. Just sign on as an associate and buy your own ISBN block.
You get the benefits of membership (there are many) but you have your
own imprint.

You can also print POD withou using a subsidy house by using Lightning
source or Fidlar-Doubleday. Both will do fulifllment for a fee.

With all thes choices it seems unnecessary to even consider a subsidy
publisher.
Their prices are so high that you can never afford to sell to
bookstores.
But if you must, then Booklocker.com, Aventis, and Trafford have good
reps. Just don't spend bucks on their add-on marketing packages. They
are useless. You have to plan and execute your own marketing.

John Culleton<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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fernreiss

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Since: Jul 13, 2003
Posts: 18



(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:50 pm
Post subject: Re: PODs [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

 > Their prices are so high that you can never afford to sell to
 > bookstores.

This seems to me to be the bottom line. PODs can be good for
certain situations. If you just need a few books for a corporate
show-and-tell, if you're planning to sell books back-of-the-room at
talks and don't want the hassles of self-publishing, if you're putting
together a church cookbook or family genealogy and have 100 buyers
and no more. Or if you're trying to decide between two cover designs,
two back cover texts, even two different book titles, and just want to use
POD to test out your options.

But know this: Most POD books (not all, but most) are ineligible for
purchase by bookstores and libraries. They won't be reviewed in
Publishers Weekly and Library Journal, cutting off all those potential
sales. And though they might be *available* via Ingram, etc, they
won't be purchased.

Don't expect to do a book POD and still sell it in quantity to bookstores
and libraries.

/Fern

"The Publishing Game: Find an Agent in 30 Days" (literary agents)
"The Publishing Game: Publish a Book in 30 Days" (self publishing)
"The Publishing Game: Bestseller in 30 Days" (book promotion)
Buy all three books for $49, or try the all-day workshop:
Philadelphia (Jan 12), DC (Jan 14), Boca (Feb Cool, NYC (March 29),
Chicago (June Cool, DC (June 23) & more! Workshops limited to 18 attendees.
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.PublishingGame.com" target="_blank">http://www.PublishingGame.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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atakeoutcanton2

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Since: Dec 03, 2003
Posts: 20



(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:29 pm
Post subject: Re: PODs [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Fern Reiss wrote:

 >
 > Don't expect to do a book POD and still sell it in quantity to bookstores
 > and libraries.
 >

As usual Fern is "right on" (It must be that Harvard degree!) It's damn hard
to create trade books in POD... the unit cost is usually just too high to
make any money from.

You need to do what we do. We publish a few POD (actually very short-run)
books that we sell for $89 to $99 to government and industry. Our best
selling tome is about moving a corporate data center. While it does not
sell as much as it used to, it does OK... about 500 a year. At at $10 cost
each, plus 15% royalty plus whatever advertising costs we have, we still
can walk away with a good margin. We avoid selling to the trade channel as
much as possible. So if we can clear $65 per item times 500 ... well we
don't get rich... but if you have 10 or 15 of these... you can do OK (no,
we don't..... yet.... mainly because we've spent more time on our software
biz.)

We print these books in qty of around 100 (our current vendor is Alexander's
Digital in Utah) and store them in a closet!! They are 8.5/11, spiral
bound, printed simplex, with a 4 color laminated cover (designed by
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.bookwrights.com" target="_blank">www.bookwrights.com</a> ).

The key, the key, the key is to sell a book where people are NOT using their
own money to buy it. You can laugh... but think about it. If you can
publish something in the "training" area, or "security" area, and you can
get that message to someone in the right level of a corporation or
government agency, they will put in a request to the bean-counter. The
bean-counter sees the word "training" or "security" in the title and says
to herself "Hey, we gotta have training... our competition has training" or
"We can't skimp on security"... and she stamps it approved and you get the
PO.

In this market, content is king. It has to be something unique and "must
have" info. For example, if I could find a book titled something like
"Quality Control in the Semiconductor Manufacturing Environment" I could
sell a 1000 copies before dinner this evening!! There is nothing as
important as QC in chip making..... and whatever it costs, the chip
foundrys will pay it. See what I mean by content, content, content?

POD has it's uses, but you need to change your publishing paradigm. One
thing I learned. You work just as hard to sell a $15.99 book as you do a
$99.00 book. Do the math and figure it out.

Al Canton, President
Adams-Blake Company, Inc., Fair Oaks, CA
***
JAYA123 - the new web-based total-office system for the
small biz. Order entry, billing, bookkeeping, etc. for $14.95
a month. Everyone says "It's cool as a moose!!"
See why at:http://www.jaya123.com
***<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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mfw

External


Since: Oct 27, 2003
Posts: 3



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 1:52 am
Post subject: Re: Virtual Bookworm, Aventine Press, Xlibris, etc [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:05:52 -0800, pac wrote
(in message <7ZWdnaTOHPrfFVOiRVn-sQ.DeleteThis@comcast.com>):

 > Anyone have any experience with these particular companies? In the former
 > two cases, I've seen some recommendations for them.
 >--------------------------------snip----------------------------------<

There's a very good comparison of over a dozen P.O.D. companies here:

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.booksandtales.com/pod/" target="_blank">http://www.booksandtales.com/pod/</a>

--MFW<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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email5

External


Since: Dec 13, 2003
Posts: 2



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:19 pm
Post subject: Re: PODs [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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What's the exact definition of POD then?
What'd be the best idea if I wanted to sell very unique books?

--
¿ Trigger ?
http://www.magic2k.com/
http://www.oddmap.co.uk
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