Wessex

Iain wrote:

 > Simple question: Why did Thomas Hardy invent a fictional county for his
 > novels?

He didn't. Or at least, Wessex historically is a real place:

Wessex , one of the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms in England. It may have been
settled as early as 495 by Saxons under Cerdic, who is reputed to have
landed in Hampshire. Cerdic's grandson, Ceawlin (560–93), annexed
scattered Saxon settlements in the Chiltern Hills and drove the Celts
from the region between the upper Thames valley and the lower Severn.
But Ceawlin himself was finally expelled from Wessex, and until the end
of the 8th cent. the country was overshadowed successively by Kent,
Northumbria, and Mercia. King Cædwalla (reigned 685–8 conducted
several successful campaigns; and his successor Ine consolidated the
western expansion through Somerset and exacted tribute from Kent. After
Ine's death, however, the kingdom relapsed into anarchy. Egbert (802–39)
became overlord of all England, but his successors were forced to
relinquish many of his gains and to concentrate on defending their lands
against the invading Danes. With the reign of Alfred (871–99) and the
halting of the Danes, the history of Wessex becomes that of England. In
the 10th cent., Edward the Elder, Athelstan, Edmund, and Edred gradually
acquired firm control over all England, including the Danelaw. This
unity ended, however, after the quiet reign of Edgar (959–75), for
Æthelred (978–1016) could offer no effective resistance to the invading
Vikings. Canute established Danish rule in 1016. The end of his line
caused the recall of Edward the Confessor (1042–66), last of the Wessex
line of Alfred. In the novels of Thomas Hardy, Wessex is used to mean
the SW counties of England, mainly Dorsetshire.

(http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0851877.html)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Wessex 

Paul Ilechko wrote:

 > Iain wrote:

  >> Simple question: Why did Thomas Hardy invent a fictional county for his
  >> novels?

 > In the novels of Thomas Hardy, Wessex is used to mean
 > the SW counties of England, mainly Dorsetshire.
 >
 > (http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0851877.html)

info? no thanks. First off, its Dorset, Second,
"the SW counties" is far too broad. It would
have to include Cornwall, Devon &c., &c. An
enlarged Dorset fits the bill. Covers much the
territory as Trollope's Barset.

  just ffoulkes<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Wessex 

"Iain" <iain_inkster DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110532334.267029.97070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

 > Simple question: Why did Thomas Hardy invent a fictional county for his
 > novels?

You may have been misinformed. Wessex appears to
have been the kingdom of Alfred the Great (king of the
West Saxons) and remained a geographical expression
in Hardy's day.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Wessex 

Friends, Iain, countrymen, lend me your newsreaders:
 >
 > Simple question: Why did Thomas Hardy invent a fictional county for
 > his novels?

I can only think of fictional towns and cities, not counties, but they
referred to actual places. Casterbridge = Dorchester, Mellstock =
Brockhampton, etc. And didn't Tess er end up at Winchester prison?

 > Other simple question: Why all the cross-posting here to alt.atheism?

Becausey philosophy and religion are mixed up with literature? If you
use a newsreader instead of Google, you don't even have to see them. I
block anything crossposted to four or more groups (which those posts
generally are) with a simple rule:

[rec.arts.books]
Score: =-9999;
Xref: :.*:.*:.*:

--
Lee J. Moore
"Life is short, art is long."<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Wessex 

"LJM" <subtextwhore.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd33hjj.lc.subtextwhore@gmail.com...
 > Friends, Iain, countrymen, lend me your newsreaders:
  > >
  > > Simple question: Why did Thomas Hardy invent a fictional county for
  > > his novels?
 >
 > I can only think of fictional towns and cities, not counties, but they
 > referred to actual places. Casterbridge = Dorchester, Mellstock =
 > Brockhampton, etc. And didn't Tess er end up at Winchester prison?
 >
 >
 >
 >
yeah...and Tess was said to be escaping to the east, culminating at
Stonehenge. Isn't that referred to as the Salisbury plane? Wiltshire? And
they were on foot. Kind of gives you a sense of where they were. Egdon Heath
is a real place I believe (from ROTN)

-JT

Est'd 1969

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.jamestipper.com" target="_blank">www.jamestipper.com</a>
* may contain peanuts<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Wessex 

Paul Ilechko <noSPaM_pilechko_DeLETe.DeleteThis@patmedia.net>:

 > Wessex , one of the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms in England. It may have been
 > settled as early as 495 by Saxons under Cerdic, who is reputed to have
 > landed in Hampshire. Cerdic's grandson, Ceawlin (560­93), annexed
 > scattered Saxon settlements in the Chiltern Hills and drove the Celts
 > from the region between the upper Thames valley and the lower Severn.
 > But Ceawlin himself was finally expelled from Wessex, and until the end
 > of the 8th cent. the country was overshadowed successively by Kent,
 > Northumbria, and Mercia. King Cædwalla (reigned 685­8 conducted
 > several successful campaigns; and his successor Ine consolidated the
 > western expansion through Somerset and exacted tribute from Kent. After
 > Ine's death, however, the kingdom relapsed into anarchy.
 > (http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0851877.html)

Lapsed into anarchy! Oh, no. Awful shame after all those
wonderful annexings, expellings, campaignings, tribute
exactings and driving-outs. Good thing the archs got back into
the saddle.

ObBand: The Gothic Archies.

-- Moggin<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Wessex 

Don Phillipson wrote:
 > "Iain" <iain_inkster.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
 > news:1110532334.267029.97070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
 >
  > > Simple question: Why did Thomas Hardy invent a fictional county for
his
  > > novels?
 >
 > You may have been misinformed. Wessex appears to
 > have been the kingdom of Alfred the Great (king of the
 > West Saxons) and remained a geographical expression
 > in Hardy's day.

I was informed long ago by an English teacher that he invented the
political county of Wessex, despite the name originally referring to an
old kingdom, and that this overlapped with genuine locations such as
Stonehenge.

I live in the U.K., but ken nothing of 1880s S.E.Eng.

~Iain<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Wessex 

Don Phillipson wrote:
 > "Iain" <iain_inkster DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
 > news:1110532334.267029.97070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
 >
  > > Simple question: Why did Thomas Hardy invent a fictional county for
his
  > > novels?
 >
 > You may have been misinformed. Wessex appears to
 > have been the kingdom of Alfred the Great (king of the
 > West Saxons) and remained a geographical expression
 > in Hardy's day.

I was informed long ago by an English teacher that he invented the
political county of Wessex, despite the name originally referring to an
old kingdom, and that this overlapped with genuine locations such as
Stonehenge.

I live in the U.K., but ken nothing of 1880s S.E.Eng.

~Iain<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Wessex 

LJM wrote:
 > Friends, Iain, countrymen, lend me your newsreaders:
  > >
  > > Simple question: Why did Thomas Hardy invent a fictional county for
  > > his novels?
 >
 > I can only think of fictional towns and cities, not counties, but
they
 > referred to actual places. Casterbridge = Dorchester, Mellstock =
 > Brockhampton, etc. And didn't Tess er end up at Winchester prison?

I thought she might have been hung? If she did get jailed for decades,
maybe she is the great-grandmother of Vicky Pollard, Britain's *other*
iconic Wessex girl.

~Iain<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Wessex 

Friends, JT, countrymen, lend me your newsreaders:
 > "LJM" <subtextwhore.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
 > news:slrnd33hjj.lc.subtextwhore@gmail.com...
  >> Friends, Iain, countrymen, lend me your newsreaders:
   >> >
   >> > Simple question: Why did Thomas Hardy invent a fictional county for
   >> > his novels?
  >>
  >> I can only think of fictional towns and cities, not counties, but they
  >> referred to actual places. Casterbridge = Dorchester, Mellstock =
  >> Brockhampton, etc. And didn't Tess er end up at Winchester prison?
  >>
 > yeah...and Tess was said to be escaping to the east, culminating at
 > Stonehenge. Isn't that referred to as the Salisbury plane? Wiltshire?

Strangely, Salisbury Plain is on TV as I write this. Soldiers are
practicing their manoeuvres there. I don't see any milk maidens running
hysterically across the no man's land though.

 > And they were on foot. Kind of gives you a sense of where they were.

Anyway yes, it's possible to pinpoint Tess right down to the exact OS
grid reference in more than one scene from that book. Stonehenge being
the most obvious. There are some fictionally named locations in TOTD
though, albeit they are based on genuine places. Sandbourne is quite
obviously Bournemouth IMO and IIRC, the boarding house where Tess stayed
with Alec was based on an existing one. Hardy's contrived Wessex
placenames slowly faded as Tess travelled didn't they? And genuine
placenames were increasingly introduced. It was almost like he was
moving from a mythical (but ugly) fairytale to a dirty reality.
(Although Tess was f***ed however mythical or modern her surroundings
IIRC.)

 > Egdon Heath is a real place I believe (from ROTN)

Really? I thought it was fictional. Shows how much I know about the
south of England.

--
Lee J. Moore
"Life is short, art is long."<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Wessex 

Friends, Iain, countrymen, lend me your newsreaders:
 >
 > LJM wrote:
  >> Friends, Iain, countrymen, lend me your newsreaders:
   >> >
   >> > Simple question: Why did Thomas Hardy invent a fictional county for
   >> > his novels?
  >>
  >> I can only think of fictional towns and cities, not counties, but
 > they
  >> referred to actual places. Casterbridge = Dorchester, Mellstock =
  >> Brockhampton, etc. And didn't Tess er end up at Winchester prison?
 >
 > I thought she might have been hung?

My 'er' was to prevent spoilage. If she was hung (and I'm not for a
minute suggesting she was <g>), I'll let you draw your own conclusions
about where that event took place.

 > If she did get jailed for decades, maybe she is the great-grandmother
 > of Vicky Pollard, Britain's *other* iconic Wessex girl.

Yeah but no but yeah but (rolls eyes) no but what do you expect when
Angel Clare emptied a whole urn of milk down Retty's cleavage but
anyway, Alec D'urberville reckons he fingered Tess on The Chase so stop
giving me evils, betch.
--
Lee J. Moore
"Life is short, art is long."<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Wessex 

Friends, Iain, countrymen, lend me your newsreaders:
 >
 > Don Phillipson wrote:
[..]
  >> You may have been misinformed. Wessex appears to
  >> have been the kingdom of Alfred the Great (king of the
  >> West Saxons) and remained a geographical expression
  >> in Hardy's day.
 >
 > I was informed long ago by an English teacher that he invented the
 > political county of Wessex, despite the name originally referring to
 > an old kingdom, and that this overlapped with genuine locations such
 > as Stonehenge.

That's about right. Hardy resurrected Wessex (with approx. the same
boundaries of the Wessex of old), but he created his own placenames -
many of which corresponded exactly (not only in detail but also
location) with 19th century villages, towns and cities.
--
Lee J. Moore
"Life is short, art is long."<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Wessex 

LJM wrote:
 > Friends, Iain, countrymen, lend me your newsreaders:
  > >
  > > Don Phillipson wrote:
 > [..]
   > >> You may have been misinformed. Wessex appears to
   > >> have been the kingdom of Alfred the Great (king of the
   > >> West Saxons) and remained a geographical expression
   > >> in Hardy's day.
  > >
  > > I was informed long ago by an English teacher that he invented the
  > > political county of Wessex, despite the name originally referring
to
  > > an old kingdom, and that this overlapped with genuine locations
such
  > > as Stonehenge.
 >
 > That's about right. Hardy resurrected Wessex (with approx. the same
 > boundaries of the Wessex of old), but he created his own placenames -
 > many of which corresponded exactly (not only in detail but also
 > location) with 19th century villages, towns and cities.

I wonder why, if his invention approximates reality?

~Iain<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Wessex