The West

Graham Lockwood <GondhirAtC*H*O*K*L*I*TDotOrg@IgnoreThis.AndThis> wrote in message news:<BB958D2D.DC69%GondhirAtC*H*O*K*L*I*TDotOrg@IgnoreThis.AndThis>...
> Aris Katsaris said:
> {snip}
> > Even Mortal Men may have reached Aman:
> >
> > "And tales and rumours arose along the shores of the sea concerning
> > mariners and men forlorn upon the water who, by some fate or grace
> > or favour of the Valar, had entered in upon the Straight Way and seen
> > the face of the world sink below them, and so had come to the lamplit
> > quays of Avallone, or verily to the last beaches on the margin of Aman,
> > and there had looked upon the White Mountain, dreadful and beautiful,
> > before they died."
>
> Of course a problem with such tales is that there's absolutely no way that
> the humans of ME who told the tales could have heard of such events.

They could have heard of them from entities which returned to
Middle-Earth from the West ... such as the Istari.

Didn't Aelfwyne reach Tol Eressa, as part of the framing story for all
the Untold Tales?

Sincerely Yours,
Jordan
 >> Stay informed about: The West 

Pradera wrote:
> On 23 wrz 2003, Alison <news.poster.RemoveThis@ntlworld.com> scribbled loosely:
>
>>No, hull-down as in disappearing over the edge of the horizon of a
>>curved world. This was the first major clue to the ancients that the
>>earth is a globe, not a plane. On a curved world, the hull of a ship
>>disappears while its superstructure or masts are still visible. On a
>>flat world, the whole of the ship would be visible on the horizon
>>until it simply became too small to see.
>
> That is of course assuming that the ship in the movie will not float
> above the ocean leaving a trail of pixie-dust behind it...
>
Urgh. You do realise I'm going to have nightmares about that for the
next three months now? Some people should keep their sick thoughts to
themselves...

Jamie

--
"The more I see of the world, the more am I dissatisfied with it; and
every day confirms my belief of the inconsistency of all human
characters, and of the little dependence that can be placed on the
appearance of either merit or sense."

Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice
 >> Stay informed about: The West 

Jamie Armstrong wrote:

> Urgh. You do realise I'm going to have nightmares about that for the
> next three months now? Some people should keep their sick thoughts to
> themselves...

Rejoice. If Gene Rodenberry had made a movie LOTR elves would be beamed
up to the West.

Bob Kolker
 >> Stay informed about: The West 

Robert J. Kolker wrote:
>
>
> Jamie Armstrong wrote:
>
>> Urgh. You do realise I'm going to have nightmares about that for the
>> next three months now? Some people should keep their sick thoughts to
>> themselves...
>
> Rejoice. If Gene Rodenberry had made a movie LOTR elves would be beamed
> up to the West.
>
Ack! Stop it, now - all of you! I think I'm going to throw up...

Jamie

--
"The more I see of the world, the more am I dissatisfied with it; and
every day confirms my belief of the inconsistency of all human
characters, and of the little dependence that can be placed on the
appearance of either merit or sense."

Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice
 >> Stay informed about: The West 

Jamie Armstrong <j.d.armstrong DeleteThis @durham.ac.uk> writes:

> Robert J. Kolker wrote:

> > Rejoice. If Gene Rodenberry had made a movie LOTR elves would be beamed
> > up to the West.
> >
> Ack! Stop it, now - all of you! I think I'm going to throw up...


"Beam us up, Ossë!"
-- Gandalf, Captain of the West



-SK-
--
perl -e 'print "Just another Perl ${\(trickster and hacker)},";'

The Sidhekin *proves* Sidhe did it!
 >> Stay informed about: The West 

coyotes morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges kirjoitti viestissä ...
>> I agree. It seems to be the consensus here, but I have yet to see
>> anything in Tolkien's writings that support Tsar's notion. Even
>> Galadriel's song speaks of returning to specifically, Valinor.
>
>somehwere jrrt suggested that exiles like galadriel could return to tol
eressa
>but they might not be permitted into valinor itself
>perhaps calcirya would be closed to them

The Tale of Beren and Luthien mentions that Finrod walks
with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar. And
he was an exile too, even though he returned through
Mandos. My guess would be that those exiles who had
participated in kinslayings and such would stay voluntarily
in Tol Eressea, to avoid embarassment of running to
someone they had killed earlier.

Morgil
 >> Stay informed about: The West 

Robert J. Kolker kirjoitti viestissä ...
>
>
>Graham Lockwood wrote:
>>
>> Of course a problem with such tales is that there's absolutely no way
that
>> the humans of ME who told the tales could have heard of such events.
>
>Elves could have spread the story.

At least Glorfindel could have had that info.

Morgil
 >> Stay informed about: The West 

Robert J. Kolker kirjoitti viestissä ...

>Rejoice. If Gene Rodenberry had made a movie LOTR elves would be beamed
>up to the West.

Well, a bunch of them *were* beamed down to
Helm's Deep

Morgil
 >> Stay informed about: The West 

The American kirjoitti viestissä ...
>
>"Robert J. Kolker" <bobkolker DeleteThis @attbi.com> wrote in message
>news:bkpltk$4c5tg$1@ID-76471.news.uni-berlin.de...
>>
>>
>> Pradera wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > That is of course assuming that the ship in the movie will not float
>> > above the ocean leaving a trail of pixie-dust behind it...
>> >
>>
>> That is exactly what would happen if Spielberg would make the move. In
>> addition to the pixie-dust, there would be the tune "when you wish upon
>> a star" played on the soundtrack. Thank Iluvatar that S.S. did not make
>> the movie.
>>
>
>I don't think that S.S. ever made a movie that had pixie-dust.

Umm, does "The Hook" ring a (Tinker)bell?

>But I'd hate to see Eärendil portrayed as E.T. flying on a glowing bike
with
>a Silmaril held in a basket at the front.

Here we go again!

Ridley Scott: Frodo and Sam at the Cracks of Doom.
"Let's just keep on running!"
Hovering Nazgul appears in front of them.
(Hmm, actually that *was* in TTT...)

>I mean that would be just silly.
>(Although more entertaining than tTT, imho).

Amen.

Morgil
 >> Stay informed about: The West 

"Morgil" <morestelx.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bkpur3$4ebj8$1@ID-81911.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> >
> >I don't think that S.S. ever made a movie that had pixie-dust.
>
> Umm, does "The Hook" ring a (Tinker)bell?
>

Ooops!
I'm more of a Disney fan when it comes to PP, I guess.
Although how *did* he survive that bomb explosion?
Return to Neverland was very good too, btw.

T.A.
 >> Stay informed about: The West 

in <Xns93FFCD5B9D3FApraderapraderaprvpl.RemoveThis@130.133.1.4>,
Pradera <pradera.RemoveThis@pradera.prv.pl> enriched us with:
>
> Umm, you realize how many Peter Pan book purists would hang Spielberg
> if he _didn't_ have pixie-dust?

ROTFL!

Dust to dust

and an Eye for an Eye



--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail address is t.forch(a)mail.dk
 >> Stay informed about: The West 

Graham Lockwood wrote:
>
> Aris Katsaris said:
> {snip}
> > Even Mortal Men may have reached Aman:
> >
> > "And tales and rumours arose along the shores of the sea concerning
> > mariners and men forlorn upon the water who, by some fate or grace
> > or favour of the Valar, had entered in upon the Straight Way and seen
> > the face of the world sink below them, and so had come to the lamplit
> > quays of Avallone, or verily to the last beaches on the margin of Aman,
> > and there had looked upon the White Mountain, dreadful and beautiful,
> > before they died."
>
> Of course a problem with such tales is that there's absolutely no way that
> the humans of ME who told the tales could have heard of such events.

I used to think that, then I remembered Gandalf's comment in "The
Palantír":

"And how it draws one to itself! Have I not felt it? Even now my heart
desires to test my will upon it, to see if I could not wrench it from
him and turn it where I would-to look across the wide seas of water and
of time to Tirion the Fair, and perceive the unimaginable hand and mind
of Fëanor at their work, while both the White Tree and the Golden were
in flower!' He sighed and fell silent."

While I found it odd that Gandal should wish this, since he had been in
Aman whike Feanor was alive, nonetheless it shows the Stones had the
power to perceive events remote in both time and space. Perhaps this was
a hint of using crystal balls to scry the future.

Its seems probable that such devices could be used by a lawful user of
the Stone to reveal much about the world of Middle Earth and parts of it
which we no longer there.

Nice ot see you back posting BTW, Graham.



None.
 >> Stay informed about: The West 

"None" <none.TakeThisOut@none.com> wrote in message news:3F715270.F3777A8D@none.com...
..
>
> I used to think that, then I remembered Gandalf's comment in "The
> Palantír":
>
> "And how it draws one to itself! Have I not felt it? Even now my heart
> desires to test my will upon it, to see if I could not wrench it from
> him and turn it where I would-to look across the wide seas of water and
> of time to Tirion the Fair, and perceive the unimaginable hand and mind
> of Fëanor at their work, while both the White Tree and the Golden were
> in flower!' He sighed and fell silent."
>
> While I found it odd that Gandal should wish this, since he had been in
> Aman whike Feanor was alive,

Aman is a pretty big place.
Gandalf might have been focused on other things and never had had more than
a passing interest in Feanor at the time.
Later, using hindsight, learning of the enormity of what Feanor had done it
might have been very intersting to see what he did.
IMO.

> nonetheless it shows the Stones had the
> power to perceive events remote in both time and space.

No, I don't think they could.
They only held images from past use.
The stones were guessed to have been made by Feanor himself.
The Stones might have had recorded his image at what he used them for and
maybe even as he created them.
Certainly they held images from the times of the Trees or at least Gandalf
seems to hope so.

> Perhaps this was
> a hint of using crystal balls to scry the future.

I always think of a Palantír when I see a "crystal ball".
In the US people buy these single colored glass globes (basketball sized)
that sit on stone pedestals.
They put them in their yards or gardens as decoration.
I always think of the Palantír and wonder if that is what it was modeled
after.

T.A.
 >> Stay informed about: The West