The White People

zalyeski wrote:

> I fear that there may be some confusion over the chronology of Machen's
> story "The White People". According to the Sweetser & Goldstone
> bibliography of Machen, this story was "first published in Horlick's
> Magazine, Volume 1, January 1904, pp 57-78". Machen himself says, in
> his notes to the earlier (1923) Henry Danielson bibliography of his
> work: "It was first printed in a magazine called "Horlick's"...run by
> my old friend A.E. Waite" (p 36).
>
> However, Machen also says on the same page the story was "planned just
> after I had left "Literature" ". He seems to have left working for the
> magazine "Literature" by the end of 1898. This has lead some
> commentators to assume that Machen planned, and possibly wrote, the
> story in 1899. I may be wrong, but I suspect it was S.T. Joshi, in his
> book The Weird Tale, who first tried to establish a chronology for
> Machen's major writing, and who attributed "The White People" to 1899.
> Unfortunately I don't have it to hand to check.
>
>
>
> Mark

Thanks for clearing this matter up. I knew there had to be a reason why
so many expert commentators had dated THE WHITE PEOPLE as 1899. And
upon reading your post, it re-awakened a dim memory. I can't recall if
it was authored by Joshi, but I do recall once reading an article about
this precise issue.

Clearly John Pelan was not aware of any of this or else he would have
said so at an earlier stage. It just goes to show that if you want a
qualified answer, you should ask someone who is qualified to answer.

CB
 >> Stay informed about: The White People 

On 17 Feb 2006 16:21:07 -0800, "Carnacki The Ghost Finder"
<hauntedriver DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

>zalyeski wrote:
>
>> I fear that there may be some confusion over the chronology of Machen's
>> story "The White People". According to the Sweetser & Goldstone
>> bibliography of Machen, this story was "first published in Horlick's
>> Magazine, Volume 1, January 1904, pp 57-78". Machen himself says, in
>> his notes to the earlier (1923) Henry Danielson bibliography of his
>> work: "It was first printed in a magazine called "Horlick's"...run by
>> my old friend A.E. Waite" (p 36).
>>
>> However, Machen also says on the same page the story was "planned just
>> after I had left "Literature" ". He seems to have left working for the
>> magazine "Literature" by the end of 1898. This has lead some
>> commentators to assume that Machen planned, and possibly wrote, the
>> story in 1899. I may be wrong, but I suspect it was S.T. Joshi, in his
>> book The Weird Tale, who first tried to establish a chronology for
>> Machen's major writing, and who attributed "The White People" to 1899.
>> Unfortunately I don't have it to hand to check.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark
>
>Thanks for clearing this matter up. I knew there had to be a reason why
>so many expert commentators had dated THE WHITE PEOPLE as 1899. And
>upon reading your post, it re-awakened a dim memory. I can't recall if
>it was authored by Joshi, but I do recall once reading an article about
>this precise issue.
>
>Clearly John Pelan was not aware of any of this or else he would have
>said so at an earlier stage. It just goes to show that if you want a
>qualified answer, you should ask someone who is qualified to answer.
>
>CB

If you'll check earlier posts on the matter, you'll see that I
referenced these facts (particularly the original publication in
Horlick's) several times when the matter was first discussed.
You now say that you "dimly recall" reading something about this,
whereas earlier you were citing Bleiler, Klein, and others as
definitive on this issue? Which is it, Mr. Barker? Are you certain of
your facts or dimly recalling something? Perhaps just randomly
assuming that one of your reference books was correct?

At no time did you request a qualified answer, you banged on and on
about your reference books in spite of the fact that I obviously had
proven this material to be wrong.

My advice to you, Mr. Barker is "lurk and learn!" After all, it's the
mark of a tyro to leap to all sorts of erroneous conclusions regarding
publication dates, authorship, personal habits of authors and so on...
You wouldn't want to be guilty of any of that sort of foolishness, now
would you?

Cheers,

John
 >> Stay informed about: The White People 

The Penguin Encyclopedia edited by Jack Sullivan has an otherwise
excellent article on Machen by T. E. D. Klein that claims the tale was
published in 1899 (cf column 2, page 277). Considering the transposed
paragraphs and orthographical oddities that pop up from time to time in
this book, this may have been a copyeditor's error rather than Klein's.
Although I too have seen references to the story having been written in
1898-1899, no other source I have seen gives a publication date earlier
than 1904.

Jim
 >> Stay informed about: The White People 

Thanks for posting that information, Mark. I guess it means that John
will now be getting an apology for the following:

From: hauntedri... RemoveThis @hotmail.com - view profile
Date: Thurs, Feb 10 2005 2:26 am
Email: hauntedri... RemoveThis @hotmail.com
Groups: alt.books.ghost-fiction

Let's just recap, then (I want to get my facts right for the website):

JOHN PELAN

3) A discredited 'authority' on the supernatural genre who actually
lies about established facts.

Actually, I can see why you would argue that I don't 'merit any
serious
reply'. It's because you lied and you don't want to be caught out yet
again.

But anytime you want to tell us why Ev Bleiler, Julia Briggs, Ted
Klein
and a host of other genuine scholars got it wrong but that you, a
double-glazing salesman and former nightclub bouncer, know better,
we'll all be here waiting for you.




On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:08:28 -0800, John Pelan <jpelan RemoveThis @qwest.net>
wrote:

>On 17 Feb 2006 14:33:46 -0800, "zalyeski" <lostclub RemoveThis @btopenworld.com>
>wrote:
>
>>I fear that there may be some confusion over the chronology of Machen's
>>story "The White People". According to the Sweetser & Goldstone
>>bibliography of Machen, this story was "first published in Horlick's
>>Magazine, Volume 1, January 1904, pp 57-78". Machen himself says, in
>>his notes to the earlier (1923) Henry Danielson bibliography of his
>>work: "It was first printed in a magazine called "Horlick's"...run by
>>my old friend A.E. Waite" (p 36).
>>
>>However, Machen also says on the same page the story was "planned just
>>after I had left "Literature" ". He seems to have left working for the
>>magazine "Literature" by the end of 1898. This has lead some
>>commentators to assume that Machen planned, and possibly wrote, the
>>story in 1899. I may be wrong, but I suspect it was S.T. Joshi, in his
>>book The Weird Tale, who first tried to establish a chronology for
>>Machen's major writing, and who attributed "The White People" to 1899.
>>Unfortunately I don't have it to hand to check.
>>
>>
>>
>>Mark
>
>Mark:
>
>That's precisely right. There's little doubt that Machen wrote the
>tale in 1898-1899, and then set it aside just as the above describes.
>
>I doubt that my friend S.T. would have actually said that the story
>was "published" in the nineteenth century, but as we all know, Mr.
>Barker sometimes experiences difficulties with reading comprehension.
>
>Thanks for your clarification, I just hope this doesn't lead to
>Barkian bombast in your direction.
>
>Cheers,
>
>John
 >> Stay informed about: The White People 

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 16:48:23 -0800, John Pelan <jpelan.RemoveThis@qwest.net>
wrote:

>If you'll check earlier posts on the matter, you'll see that I
>referenced these facts (particularly the original publication in
>Horlick's) several times when the matter was first discussed.

Indeed you did, John. Just over a year ago, in fact:

>From: John Pelan - view profile
>Date: Thurs, Feb 10 2005 11:19 am
>Email: "John Pelan" <jpe....RemoveThis@qwest.net>
>Groups: alt.books.ghost-fiction

>
> There is no documentable "earlier
>publication". While there are conjectures that there may have been,
>neither I (or anyone else) has ever been able to prove it. First
>periodical publication is Horlick's, first BOOK publication is 1906.
>Machen wrote the story (pretty obviously to me as a part of a projected
>longer work) and it went unpublished until 1904.
 >> Stay informed about: The White People 

Did I mention we briefly met Jack Sullivan while we were in New York
in January? He's looking well, but not doing much in the fantasy line
at present. Just chance for a brief chat about Elegant Nightmares and
Lost Souls before he and Michael Dirda slipped away for coffee, and we
mooched around Books of Wonder, looking for John Bellairs' novels (I'd
just read THE HOUSE WITH A CLOCK IN ITS WALLS, and wanted to lay in a
few for Tim's reading - thanks, Brian Showers, for the introduction to
this fine author).

For those who only get to New York occasionally, we also had a chance
to look around the Gotham Book Store, now in fine new premises. Gosh,
has their stock expanded. And what a place to find those authors that
you never see in Barnes & Noble.

Christopher

On 17 Feb 2006 17:14:00 -0800, jrock DeleteThis @locallink.net wrote:

>The Penguin Encyclopedia edited by Jack Sullivan has an otherwise
>excellent article on Machen by T. E. D. Klein that claims the tale was
>published in 1899 (cf column 2, page 277). Considering the transposed
>paragraphs and orthographical oddities that pop up from time to time in
>this book, this may have been a copyeditor's error rather than Klein's.
>Although I too have seen references to the story having been written in
>1898-1899, no other source I have seen gives a publication date earlier
>than 1904.
>
>Jim
 >> Stay informed about: The White People 

I have and I checked:

The White People
Date written: 1899
First published: 1904
First collected: 1906
S.T. Joshi, The Weird Tale, University of Texas Press, first edirtion
1990, page 40.


zalyeski wrote:
> I fear that there may be some confusion over the chronology of Machen's
> story "The White People". According to the Sweetser & Goldstone
> bibliography of Machen, this story was "first published in Horlick's
> Magazine, Volume 1, January 1904, pp 57-78". Machen himself says, in
> his notes to the earlier (1923) Henry Danielson bibliography of his
> work: "It was first printed in a magazine called "Horlick's"...run by
> my old friend A.E. Waite" (p 36).
>
> However, Machen also says on the same page the story was "planned just
> after I had left "Literature" ". He seems to have left working for the
> magazine "Literature" by the end of 1898. This has lead some
> commentators to assume that Machen planned, and possibly wrote, the
> story in 1899. I may be wrong, but I suspect it was S.T. Joshi, in his
> book The Weird Tale, who first tried to establish a chronology for
> Machen's major writing, and who attributed "The White People" to 1899.
> Unfortunately I don't have it to hand to check.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
 >> Stay informed about: The White People 

The White People
Date written: 1899
First published: 1904
First collected: 1906
S.T. Joshi, The Weird Tale, University of Texas Press, first edition
1990, page 40.

Christopher Roden wrote:

> On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 16:48:23 -0800, John Pelan <jpelan RemoveThis @qwest.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>If you'll check earlier posts on the matter, you'll see that I
>>referenced these facts (particularly the original publication in
>>Horlick's) several times when the matter was first discussed.
>
>
> Indeed you did, John. Just over a year ago, in fact:
>
>
>>From: John Pelan - view profile
>>Date: Thurs, Feb 10 2005 11:19 am
>>Email: "John Pelan" <jpe... RemoveThis @qwest.net>
>>Groups: alt.books.ghost-fiction
>
>
>>There is no documentable "earlier
>>publication". While there are conjectures that there may have been,
>>neither I (or anyone else) has ever been able to prove it. First
>>periodical publication is Horlick's, first BOOK publication is 1906.
>>Machen wrote the story (pretty obviously to me as a part of a projected
>>longer work) and it went unpublished until 1904.
>
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: The White People 

R.A. Gilbert's A.E. Waite, a bibliography, the Aquarian Press, 1st
edition 1983, lists Horlick's Magazine and Home Journal for Australia,
India and the Colonies on page 165 and describes it inter alia as: "..
not a house journal and during its eighteen months of existence Waite
published stories by Evelyn Underhill and novels by Edgar Jepson and by
Arthur Machen."

Theo

jrock RemoveThis @locallink.net wrote:

> The Penguin Encyclopedia edited by Jack Sullivan has an otherwise
> excellent article on Machen by T. E. D. Klein that claims the tale was
> published in 1899 (cf column 2, page 277). Considering the transposed
> paragraphs and orthographical oddities that pop up from time to time in
> this book, this may have been a copyeditor's error rather than Klein's.
> Although I too have seen references to the story having been written in
> 1898-1899, no other source I have seen gives a publication date earlier
> than 1904.
>
> Jim
>
 >> Stay informed about: The White People 

Christopher Roden wrote:

> Did I mention we briefly met Jack Sullivan while we were in New York
> in January? He's looking well, but not doing much in the fantasy line
> at present. Just chance for a brief chat about Elegant Nightmares and
> Lost Souls before he and Michael Dirda slipped away for coffee, and we
> mooched around Books of Wonder, looking for John Bellairs' novels (I'd
> just read THE HOUSE WITH A CLOCK IN ITS WALLS, and wanted to lay in a
> few for Tim's reading - thanks, Brian Showers, for the introduction to
> this fine author).
>
> For those who only get to New York occasionally, we also had a chance
> to look around the Gotham Book Store, now in fine new premises. Gosh,
> has their stock expanded. And what a place to find those authors that
> you never see in Barnes & Noble.
>
> Christopher
>

You are Lord Melbury and I claim my five pounds!
 >> Stay informed about: The White People