Writers who jumped the shark

"MaryWM" <weishan RemoveThis @wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1965393fa439862b9896f8@news-server.wi.rr.com...
> > Robert Heinlein would top my list of Shark-jumping authors. He's one
> > of my fave SF writers (Puppet Masters, TMIAHM, SIASL), but towards the
> > latter half of career most of what he was turning out was unreadable,
> > sexist garbage.
>
> Yes! I thought I was the only one who noticed.
> I read and loved all his early stuff, but told my
> friends that his later stuff was all an old
> man's wet dream.

You're hardly the only one. On r.a.s.f.w this is close to conventional
wisdom, though on alt.fan.heinlein you will hear different opinions. (One
different opinion, actually.)
 >> Stay informed about: Writers who jumped the shark 

"K Barrett" <mormodes DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in
news:4kMKa.27677$3d.16466@sccrnsc02:

>
> "Don D'Ammassa" <dammassa DeleteThis @ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns93A6B80348AEFdammassaixnetcomcom@198.99.146.18...
>> "K Barrett" <mormodes DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:gEEKa.25638$e26.16971 @rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > PD James - 'Devices and Desires'
>> >
>>
>>
>> Hey! I really enjoyed Death in Holy Orders!!!
>
> Were you by chance reading it while waiting to be called for jury
> duty? (the most bone crushingly boring thing I have ever done in my
> life - second to slogging thru DIHO)
>
> K Barrett
>
>
>

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
 >> Stay informed about: Writers who jumped the shark 

In article <Q7LKa.177437$h42.126419@twister.nyc.rr.com>,
nomadicworld.RemoveThis@removethistomailmehotmail.com says...
> "MaryWM" <weishan.RemoveThis@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1965393fa439862b9896f8@news-server.wi.rr.com...
> > In article <93502af7.0306260500.220d432a.RemoveThis@posting.google.com>, alm-
> > dbm.RemoveThis@esair.dlo.mod.uk says...
> > > "David Matthews" <dmatthews03.RemoveThis@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:<FkwKa.4545$Fe3.748029@news20.bellglobal.com>...
> > > Robert Heinlein would top my list of Shark-jumping authors. He's one
> > > of my fave SF writers (Puppet Masters, TMIAHM, SIASL), but towards the
> > > latter half of career most of what he was turning out was unreadable,
> > > sexist garbage.
> >
> > Yes! I thought I was the only one who noticed.
> > I read and loved all his early stuff, but told my
> > friends that his later stuff was all an old
> > man's wet dream.
> > MaryWM
> > (including Stranger in a Strange Land)
>
> Obviously you're from not from the rec.arts.sf.written side of the thread...
>
No, but s.f. was a hobby for many, many years. One fine summer
I read one book each day, (actually between midnight and about 4 am).
"Stranger in a Strange Land" replaced Kerouac's road book
as some kind of "bible." Appealed much more to a certain type
of young man than to many young women, (kinda obvious I would
have thought).
Now "left Hand of Darkness" by LeGuin...
MaryWM
 >> Stay informed about: Writers who jumped the shark 

Don Tuite wrote:
>
>finger-strain. But Terry (and JKR) have enormous casts of >characters just waiting for the *Realist* treatment, (That's where

<munch>

>Terry's got to worry about the Pictsies turning train-watcher thanks
>to some ham-handed fan.

<g> Actually, there doesn't seem to be much point writing Terry
fanfic in general. Whenever he leaves a loose end, he tends to
pick it up again within a year or so. Also, he's very prolific,
which feeds the hungry fan, and he's always been prolific, so
there's plenty to reread.

However, his distinctive style does make him very susceptible to
being pastiched in other fandoms, and crossovers are extremely
likely. (The Librarian pops up a lot.)

Maureen
 >> Stay informed about: Writers who jumped the shark 

In article <MPG.19654ab75cdaccb5989cf6.TakeThisOut@news.cis.dfn.de>, Sean O'Hara
<darkerthenightthebrighterthestar.TakeThisOut@myrealbox.com> writes
>In the Year of the Goat, the Great and Powerful
>tomcatpolka@yaNOSPAMhoo.com declared...
>> Has Terry Pratchett jumped the shark? I haven't read any of his stuff,
>> but I see he puts out a lot.
>
>Apart from an occassional stinker (Jingo) Pratchett's been getting
>better for the last decade.

I thought that "Jingo" was a bit sub-par, but I also found that it
improved enormously on re-reading. It's certainly much darker than most
of Pterry's stuff, which may put people off. You could argue that it's an
earlier, less successful run at "Night Watch", which I thought excellent,
and am intending to see if a re-read will have the same effect.
--
David Allsopp Houston, this is Tranquillity Base.
Remove SPAM to email me The Eagle has landed.
 >> Stay informed about: Writers who jumped the shark 

In the Year of the Goat, the Great and Powerful Don D'Ammassa
declared...
>
> Sean O'Hara <darkerthenightthebrighterthestar RemoveThis @myrealbox.com> wrote in
> news:MPG.1965484fa4f721ce989cf5@news.cis.dfn.de:
>
> >> King badly needed editing on books
> >> during his middle period.
> >>
> > No, he just needed to cut back on the booze and dope. I think
> > Tommyknockers is the one where he says he doesn't even remember
> > writing it, and it really shows.
> >
> >
> No, he needed editing. Large chunks of the novels could have/should have
> been left out completely. The pacing got out of whack and the side trips,
> while sometimes interesting in themselves, were out of place in the book.
>
You miss the point -- the only thing that could've saved
Tommyknockers is if King hadn't written it while coked up
and drunk. There's nothing an editor could've done to save
it besides chucking the MS in the garbage and telling him
to start over.

--
Sean O'Hara
"Harry goes through absolute hell every time he returns to school.
So I think that a bit of snogging would alleviate matters."
--J.K. Rowling
 >> Stay informed about: Writers who jumped the shark 

MaryWM <weishan DeleteThis @wi.rr.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.196553b5e52e7db1989700 DeleteThis @news-server.wi.rr.com>...
> In article <Q7LKa.177437$h42.126419@twister.nyc.rr.com>,
> nomadicworld DeleteThis @removethistomailmehotmail.com says...
> > "MaryWM" <weishan DeleteThis @wi.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:MPG.1965393fa439862b9896f8@news-server.wi.rr.com...
> > > In article <93502af7.0306260500.220d432a DeleteThis @posting.google.com>, alm-
> > > dbm DeleteThis @esair.dlo.mod.uk says...
> > > > "David Matthews" <dmatthews03 DeleteThis @sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:<FkwKa.4545$Fe3.748029@news20.bellglobal.com>...
> > > > Robert Heinlein would top my list of Shark-jumping authors. He's one
> > > > of my fave SF writers (Puppet Masters, TMIAHM, SIASL), but towards the
> > > > latter half of career most of what he was turning out was unreadable,
> > > > sexist garbage.
> > > Yes! I thought I was the only one who noticed.
> > > I read and loved all his early stuff, but told my
> > > friends that his later stuff was all an old
> > > man's wet dream.
> > > MaryWM
> > > (including Stranger in a Strange Land)
> >
> > Obviously you're from not from the rec.arts.sf.written side of the thread...
> >
> No, but s.f. was a hobby for many, many years. One fine summer
> I read one book each day, (actually between midnight and about 4 am).
> "Stranger in a Strange Land" replaced Kerouac's road book
> as some kind of "bible." Appealed much more to a certain type
> of young man than to many young women, (kinda obvious I would
> have thought).
> Now "left Hand of Darkness" by LeGuin...

My point was that anyone who read rec.arts.sf.written casually would
never say "I thought I was the only one who noticed." There are many,
many people (myself included) who have a low opinion of his later
work. Hell, I have a low opinion of his early work too, but that's a
minority opinion.
 >> Stay informed about: Writers who jumped the shark 

In rec.arts.books aalucard RemoveThis @webtv.net wrote:

> What writers do you think have jumped the shark.

How about Dickens, Balzac, Jane Austen? Prolific writers, but I've
only read bits and pieces of their output so I don't have a sense
of an overall decline.
 >> Stay informed about: Writers who jumped the shark 

On 6/27/03 7:03 AM, in article bdhird$kub$1@news1.radix.net,
"tomcatpolka@yaNOSPAMhoo.com" <tomcatpolka.DeleteThis@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote:

> In rec.arts.books aalucard.DeleteThis@webtv.net wrote:
>
>> What writers do you think have jumped the shark.
>
> How about Dickens, Balzac, Jane Austen? Prolific writers, but I've
> only read bits and pieces of their output so I don't have a sense
> of an overall decline.

Our Jane prolific? You're joking, right? Not difficult to read all her stuff
in a week. Personally I am particularly fond of her juvenilia and her first
written novel, *Lady Susan*. They have a lot of bite to them, but others
would argue that her last, unfinished novel, *Sanditon* is about as good as
anything she wrote. Hey, one of the ladies therein, a rich 'un, is "half
mulatto". Alas, we never got to find out what happened to her. What with her
(JA's) brothers being in the Navy, she would have been quite knowledable
about things Windian, to the point that she knew that bermuda was not in the
West Indies . .
 >> Stay informed about: Writers who jumped the shark 

Dark Lensman wrote:
> Sean O'Hara <darkerthenightthebrighterthestar.DeleteThis@myrealbox.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.19654ab75cdaccb5989cf6.DeleteThis@news.cis.dfn.de>...
> > In the Year of the Goat, the Great and Powerful
> > tomcatpolka.DeleteThis@yaNOSPAMhoo.com declared...
> > > Has Terry Pratchett jumped the shark? I haven't read any of his stuff,
> > > but I see he puts out a lot.
> >
> > Apart from an occassional stinker (Jingo) Pratchett's been getting
> > better for the last decade.
>
> And i think Jingo is amongst his best, feet of clay on the other
> hand.. - it just goes to show that he hasnt jumped the shark
>

Jingo is one of my favourites too...but I also loved Feet
of Clay...which just goes to show that he's just
stretching a little further and a long way from the
endless downward slide

I suspect that if he ever thinks he can't excite himself
with a book he'll simply stop writing...he's not exactly
short of a quid or two so he's not been writing simply to
feed the bank for some while...and he's set himself a
setting and several regular characters that can be used
to tackle pretty much any standard plot and turn it on
its head...so I don't see him running out of jokes

prolific authors I'm more worried about are Ian Rankin
and Carl Hiaassen...both of whom seem to be painting
themselves into a corner...Rankin because he keeps
returning to a character (Rebus) who seems to be
"developing" by going in circles...and Hiassen because
there are only so many books you can write about hard
bitten, disillusioned local reporters before it starts
seeming cliched...I suspect both need to stretch
themselves a bit or they'll start getting very dull

--
eric
www.ericjarvis.co.uk
"Hey Lord don't ask me questions
There ain't no answer in me"
 >> Stay informed about: Writers who jumped the shark 

El Capitan <pirate.TakeThisOut@NOSPAMairmail.net> wrote in news:pirate-
1A549E.16354926062003.TakeThisOut@library.airnews.net:

> ObSF - For Skiffy/Fantsy authors, I agree wholeheartedly about Robert
> Jordan having jumped the shark. The only other author that comes close
> to Jordan's diarrhea of the keyboard was L. Ron Hubbard (or whatever
> Scientology committee wrote that 10 volume set.)

L. Ron did actually write the Mission Earth series. Pity the poor
Scientologist who had to edit the thing.

-Ben Adams
 >> Stay informed about: Writers who jumped the shark 

In article <a4bef640.0306271152.317f1387.RemoveThis@posting.google.com>,
nomadicworld.RemoveThis@hotmail.com says...
> MaryWM <weishan.RemoveThis@wi.rr.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.196553b5e52e7db1989700.RemoveThis@news-server.wi.rr.com>...
> > In article <Q7LKa.177437$h42.126419@twister.nyc.rr.com>,
> > nomadicworld.RemoveThis@removethistomailmehotmail.com says...
> > > "MaryWM" <weishan.RemoveThis@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > news:MPG.1965393fa439862b9896f8@news-server.wi.rr.com...
> > > > In article <93502af7.0306260500.220d432a.RemoveThis@posting.google.com>, alm-
> > > > dbm.RemoveThis@esair.dlo.mod.uk says...
> > > > > "David Matthews" <dmatthews03.RemoveThis@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:<FkwKa.4545$Fe3.748029@news20.bellglobal.com>...
> > > > > Robert Heinlein would top my list of Shark-jumping authors. He's one

>
> My point was that anyone who read rec.arts.sf.written casually would
> never say "I thought I was the only one who noticed." There are many,
> many people (myself included) who have a low opinion of his later
> work. Hell, I have a low opinion of his early work too, but that's a
> minority opinion.
>
Oh, sorry...now I see.
Well he was never up there with the biggies, to my mind,
but he was a fair storyteller...as s.f. goes, I guess you
could say he wrote "cozies." (ooo he'd hate that)
I can't hang around another ng...that whole eating, earning
thing intervenes. Plus, this is the most civil ng I ever encountered...
how are they over in rec.arts.sf, etc.?
MaryWM
 >> Stay informed about: Writers who jumped the shark 

In article <MPG.196597f7849fb4c098b12d.TakeThisOut@News.CIS.DFN.DE>, Eric Jarvis
<web.TakeThisOut@ericjarvis.co.uk> writes
>
>even the weaker ones (IMO The Fifth Elephant and The
>Thief of time) are still well worth a read...and it's
>tough to find a general agreement on which are the weak
>books...so it may just be that he's "pushing the envelope
>a little"...I suspect that he's not written his best book
>as yet

We shall see.

But authors in any genre face a problem here. You've got to test the
envelope or go mad. Yet you are made well aware that there's plenty of
fans out there who want more of the same -- they want to see the same
characters acting like they did in the last book.
--
Terry Pratchett
 >> Stay informed about: Writers who jumped the shark