What Went Wrong In Iraq -- And How To Make It Right -- Joh..

"D. Patterson" <nye DeleteThis @fidalgo.net> wrote in message
news:44EEC56E.6020501@fidalgo.net...
>
>
> a.spencer3 wrote:
>
> > "Mark Test" <MARKT38 DeleteThis @peoplepc.com> wrote in message
> > news:44ee2f94$0$8848$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
> >
> >>"a.spencer3" <a.spencer3 DeleteThis @ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> >>news:HikHg.3192$s4.3093@newsfe3-win.ntli.net...
> >>
> >>>"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:m7aHg.226$15.2499@eagle.america.net...
> >>>
> >>>>Bingo!
> >>>>
> >>>>DSH
> >>>>
> >>>>"Mark Test" <MARKT38 DeleteThis @peoplepc.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:44ed207f$0$8850$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>"David Raleigh Arnold" <darnold4 DeleteThis @cox.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:pan.2006.08.23.16.33.53.609123@cox.net...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:41:35 +0100, D. Spencer Hines wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>"Why Victory Still Proves Elusive"
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>"What went wrong in Iraq -- and how to make it right."
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>Nothing can be done to make it right. The US invaded the wrong
> >>>>>>
> >>>country.
> >>>
> >>>>>You're an idiot. What country is the world's number one supporter
> >>>>>
> > of
> >
> >>>>>groups like Hezzbollah? This same country is located right between
> >>>>>Iraq and Afghanistan.....We are in place to put such a hurt on said
> >>>>>country....IF diplomacy fails, and it will....
> >>>>>
> >>>>>IF you are afraid to combat evil....just say so....and then get
> >>>>>
> > outta
> >
> >>>>>the way of us who aren't afraid to stop evil.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Mark
> >>>>>--
> >>>>>"I believe that Islamic terrorists will stop at nothing in their mad
> >>>>>
> >>>quest
> >>>
> >>>>>to rule the globe. As a result, World War III has started, whether
> >>>>>
> > we
> >
> >>>like
> >>>
> >>>>>it or not. It will continue, whether we fight back or not. But if we
> >>>>>
> >>>think
> >>>
> >>>>>we can win by not fighting, then we're not just wrong. We're nuts."
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>Conventional fighting (especially against the wrong people) didn't stop
> >>>
> >>the
> >>
> >>>plot to down numerous aircraft recently.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>So Iran doesn't support terrorists? Iran doesn't supply Hezbo? Why are
> >>they the wrong country to hit in this war on terror?
> >>
> >>BTW, Pakistan, Jordan, Saudi, all actively pursue and do not fund
> >>terrorists, Iran and Syria continue to support them.
> >>
> >>
> >>>Think again.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>No need to.
> >>
> >>
> >>>Twit.
> >>>
> >>Idiot.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > We're not fighting Iran or Syria yet.
> >
> > Twit.
> >
> > Surreyman
>
>
> What a stupid remark! Iran has been engaged in a state of war with the
> United States and without diplomatic relations by its own insistence and
> persistence ever since they seized the U.S. Embassy and U.S. citizens.
> Iran has been using proxies to covertly fight and wage war upon U.S.
> armed forces and citizens for years. Syria has alternately and/or
> concurrently played both sides of the fence to overtly cooperate with
> the United States and covertly fight and wage war upon the United States
> at various points in time.
>

Largely agreed, and they might well have made more worthwhile targets than
Iraq.
But we're not fighting 'em yet.
Fact.

Surreyman
 >> Stay informed about: What Went Wrong In Iraq -- And How To Make It Right -- Joh.. 

In article <44ee2ea0$0$8872$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>,
"Mark Test" <MARKT38.TakeThisOut@peoplepc.com> wrote:

>
> When did the world decide to talk to facists? We fought a world war
> with facists, now a facist movement is growing in strength and in power,
> and everyone refuses to stop them. Now I know what it must've been
> like in 1936 when the Nazi's were on the march.....
>
> History does repeat itself.....

which brings up a personal curiosity question. Has there ever been
a recorded time where a country that actually wanted atomic bomb was
stopped from getting it? I can't recall any.
Talk about history repeating...
 >> Stay informed about: What Went Wrong In Iraq -- And How To Make It Right -- Joh.. 

On 8/25/06 8:10 AM, in article
kurtullman-9A003D.09101425082006.TakeThisOut@customer-201-125-217-207.uninet.net.mx,
"Kurt Ullman" <kurtullman.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In article <44ee2ea0$0$8872$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>,
> "Mark Test" <MARKT38.TakeThisOut@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> When did the world decide to talk to facists? We fought a world war
>> with facists, now a facist movement is growing in strength and in power,
>> and everyone refuses to stop them. Now I know what it must've been
>> like in 1936 when the Nazi's were on the march.....
>>
>> History does repeat itself.....
>
> which brings up a personal curiosity question. Has there ever been
> a recorded time where a country that actually wanted atomic bomb was
> stopped from getting it? I can't recall any.
> Talk about history repeating...

The Israelis took out the Osirak nuclear facility near Baghdad in 1981.

Grey Satterfield
 >> Stay informed about: What Went Wrong In Iraq -- And How To Make It Right -- Joh.. 

Grey Satterfield wrote:
> On 8/25/06 8:10 AM, in article
> kurtullman-9A003D.09101425082006.DeleteThis@customer-201-125-217-207.uninet.net.mx,
> "Kurt Ullman" <kurtullman.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>In article <44ee2ea0$0$8872$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>,
>>"Mark Test" <MARKT38.DeleteThis@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>When did the world decide to talk to facists? We fought a world war
>>>with facists, now a facist movement is growing in strength and in power,
>>>and everyone refuses to stop them. Now I know what it must've been
>>>like in 1936 when the Nazi's were on the march.....
>>>
>>>History does repeat itself.....
>>
>> which brings up a personal curiosity question. Has there ever been
>>a recorded time where a country that actually wanted atomic bomb was
>>stopped from getting it? I can't recall any.
>> Talk about history repeating...
>
>
> The Israelis took out the Osirak nuclear facility near Baghdad in 1981.
>
> Grey Satterfield
>

Yes, but this would be a totally different operation with regards to
scope and possible consequences. US intelligence is still very unsure of
what and where possible nuclear weapons development may be taking place.
And the fact of the matter is that we have a very large contingent of
vunerable Americans that could be put into a very precarious situation
in Iraq if we were to engage Iran. Many of the tough guy Hawks in the
administration and the screeching war eagles in the media/blogosphere
don't seem to take that into account.
And for all their talk, we're hardly in a crisis where our very
existence was threatened such as during the Cold War.
 >> Stay informed about: What Went Wrong In Iraq -- And How To Make It Right -- Joh.. 

On 8/25/06 9:41 AM, in article ecn1vv$u30$1@news1.usf.edu, "Drew Remsen"
<remsen59.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Grey Satterfield wrote:
>> On 8/25/06 8:10 AM, in article
>> kurtullman-9A003D.09101425082006.DeleteThis@customer-201-125-217-207.uninet.net.mx,
>> "Kurt Ullman" <kurtullman.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> In article <44ee2ea0$0$8872$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>,
>>> "Mark Test" <MARKT38.DeleteThis@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> When did the world decide to talk to facists? We fought a world war
>>>> with facists, now a facist movement is growing in strength and in power,
>>>> and everyone refuses to stop them. Now I know what it must've been
>>>> like in 1936 when the Nazi's were on the march.....
>>>>
>>>> History does repeat itself.....
>>>
>>> which brings up a personal curiosity question. Has there ever been
>>> a recorded time where a country that actually wanted atomic bomb was
>>> stopped from getting it? I can't recall any.
>>> Talk about history repeating...
>>
>> The Israelis took out the Osirak nuclear facility near Baghdad in 1981.
>>
> Yes, but this would be a totally different operation with regards to
> scope and possible consequences. US intelligence is still very unsure of
> what and where possible nuclear weapons development may be taking place.
> And the fact of the matter is that we have a very large contingent of
> vunerable Americans that could be put into a very precarious situation
> in Iraq if we were to engage Iran. Many of the tough guy Hawks in the
> administration and the screeching war eagles in the media/blogosphere
> don't seem to take that into account.
> And for all their talk, we're hardly in a crisis where our very
> existence was threatened such as during the Cold War.

There was no implied editorial endorsement of an Israeli air attack against
Iran's nuclear facilities. It's pretty clear that airpower alone could not
accomplish the mission.

Drew needs to relax.

Grey Satterfield
 >> Stay informed about: What Went Wrong In Iraq -- And How To Make It Right -- Joh.. 

In article <VsuHg.168237$9d4.60259@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
"Eric Hartup" <ehartup.RemoveThis@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:


> The whole root of the problem is America's continual support of Israel. We
> never see any references to the fact that Isreal has nuclear weapons and the
> fact that they have usurped land belonging to the Palestinians.
You misspelled "won land that was in the hands in the governments
that attacked them as opposed to the Palestinians who are being whipped
up as pawns by the idiots that lost the land in the first place." You
want your lands back, declare peace and acknowledge Israel's right to
exist. WOrked marvelously all these years for Egypt for example.
Heck if the Palestinians had just shut up and avoided attacking
Israel, much of the disputed land was in the process of being "returned"
to them anyway.
 >> Stay informed about: What Went Wrong In Iraq -- And How To Make It Right -- Joh.. 

Drew Remsen <remsen59 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

:Yes, but this would be a totally different operation with regards to
:scope and possible consequences. US intelligence is still very unsure of
:what and where possible nuclear weapons development may be taking place.

That's not the problem. The problem is that the number of sites is
very large (at least in the 70's).

: And the fact of the matter is that we have a very large contingent of
:vunerable Americans that could be put into a very precarious situation
:in Iraq if we were to engage Iran. Many of the tough guy Hawks in the
:administration and the screeching war eagles in the media/blogosphere
:don't seem to take that into account.

Why do you think that? Simply because they don't fold the way you
want to?

:And for all their talk, we're hardly in a crisis where our very
:existence was threatened such as during the Cold War.

You don't think a nuclear-armed Iran would be a threat to the entire
industrial world? What planet do you live on?

--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson
 >> Stay informed about: What Went Wrong In Iraq -- And How To Make It Right -- Joh.. 

Kurt Ullman <kurtullman.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
> which brings up a personal curiosity question. Has there ever
>been a recorded time where a country that actually wanted atomic bomb
>was
>stopped from getting it? I can't recall any.

Yes, Iraq. Israel bombed and destroyed Iraq's nuclear reactor
at Osiriack on 7 June 1981 - and the US & UK put paid to Iraq's
nuclear hopes when they invaded in 2003. I suspect that Israel
will do the same to Iran's facilities as they did to Osiriack if
it looks likely that Iran will get nuclear weapons. Israel can't
afford to have a country which is dedicated to its destruction
in possession of such weapons.

--
Brian Pears
Gateshead, UK
 >> Stay informed about: What Went Wrong In Iraq -- And How To Make It Right -- Joh.. 

In article <N7hFuNGzlz7EFwhS.DeleteThis@tardis.main>,
Brian Pears <bpears.DeleteThis@freenet.co.uk> wrote:

> Kurt Ullman <kurtullman.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > which brings up a personal curiosity question. Has there ever
> >been a recorded time where a country that actually wanted atomic bomb
> >was
> >stopped from getting it? I can't recall any.
>
> Yes, Iraq. Israel bombed and destroyed Iraq's nuclear reactor
> at Osiriack on 7 June 1981 - and the US & UK put paid to Iraq's
> nuclear hopes when they invaded in 2003. I suspect that Israel
> will do the same to Iran's facilities as they did to Osiriack if
> it looks likely that Iran will get nuclear weapons. Israel can't
> afford to have a country which is dedicated to its destruction
> in possession of such weapons.

Okay, let me rephrase, any that was brought about by diplomatic means
since Iran seems to have learned from Iraq's mistake and made it hard
(if not impossible) to bring about an acceptable military solution.
 >> Stay informed about: What Went Wrong In Iraq -- And How To Make It Right -- Joh.. 

Perceptive, Apposite & Astute.

Vide infra pro sapientia.

DSH

<Akorps.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1156535238.305733.204690@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

> Somehow reminds me of the old saying "The British lose every battle
> except the last one." Or how to win the war by losing battles. Its a
> strange kind of Taoist paradox; in contrast total military victory
> often leads to political disaster, by creating a vacuum that is filled
> by an even worse enemy. Total military victory during WW2 made it
> possible for Communism to fill the vacuum in Eastern Europe and China,
> an even more dangerous enemy in some ways. The Chinese strategy, in
> contrast, is to keep the pot boiling in the Middle East, so that they
> can sell arms to the various players in order to finance their oil
> purchases, while feigning friendship with all sides. Meanwhile the USA,
> which tries to broker a peace and give the people freedom, prosperity,
> and democracy, is seen as the bad guys.
 >> Stay informed about: What Went Wrong In Iraq -- And How To Make It Right -- Joh.. 

David E. Powell wrote:
> a.spencer3 wrote:
>> <Akorps.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:1156438007.831510.295270@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>>> One thing we did was underestimate the cleverness and cunning of the
>>> enemy. We don't understand their culture (or literature) very well.
>>>
>>> Israel is going through recriminations about the campaign in Lebanon,
>>> but the main problem was the new tactics and strategy used by
>>> Hellzbullah, as such new methods often are very difficult to deal with
>>> at first.
>>>
>> It's called guerilla warfare.
>> It's been around a long time.
>>
>> Surreyman
>
> Rockets that can hit cities and ships, dispersed in civilian areas
> where they can be fired from in hopes of causing casualties tocivilians
> at both points of launch and of aim are new dimensions to guerrilla
> warfare.
>

The scale of the state support of the guerillas is also unprecedented.
10,000 of any sort of weapon is unusual, missiles even more so.

Iran has a very long history of craftsmanship but the mass
production required to make those missiles is new. I wonder
if they remembered to put the factories and manager's homes
underground?

Andrew Swallow
 >> Stay informed about: What Went Wrong In Iraq -- And How To Make It Right -- Joh.. 

Brian Pears <bpears.TakeThisOut@freenet.co.uk> wrote:

:Kurt Ullman <kurtullman.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
:> which brings up a personal curiosity question. Has there ever
:>been a recorded time where a country that actually wanted atomic bomb was
:>stopped from getting it? I can't recall any.
:
:Yes, Iraq. Israel bombed and destroyed Iraq's nuclear reactor
:at Osiriack on 7 June 1981 - and the US & UK put paid to Iraq's
:nuclear hopes when they invaded in 2003. I suspect that Israel
:will do the same to Iran's facilities as they did to Osiriack if
:it looks likely that Iran will get nuclear weapons. Israel can't
:afford to have a country which is dedicated to its destruction
:in possession of such weapons.

The problem with that is that Iran learned from Iraq's experience and
has dozens of nuclear facilities spread all over the place. Israel
doesn't have enough aircraft to hit them all even if they could find a
cooperative country to let them stage. Iran is also a bit too far
away for Israel to hit.

--
"Rule Number One for Slayers - Don't die."
-- Buffy, the Vampire Slayer
 >> Stay informed about: What Went Wrong In Iraq -- And How To Make It Right -- Joh.. 

"Eric Hartup" <ehartup.DeleteThis@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:VsuHg.168237$9d4.60259@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> "Mark Test" <MARKT38.DeleteThis@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
> news:44ee2ea0$0$8872$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
> > "Drew Remsen" <remsen59.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:eck9cr$m1g$1@news1.usf.edu...
> >
> > I'm sure diplomacy will fail since Iran has never once done what they
> > said they would do. However, they continue to assert that they want
> > Israel destroyed and nukes would help them in that matter.
> >
> > When did the world decide to talk to facists? We fought a world war
> > with facists, now a facist movement is growing in strength and in power,
> > and everyone refuses to stop them. Now I know what it must've been
> > like in 1936 when the Nazi's were on the march.....
> >
> > History does repeat itself.....
> >
> > Mark
> >
> The whole root of the problem is America's continual support of Israel.

What would you have us do? Cease supporting our allies?
Or just stop supporting Jewish allies?




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 >> Stay informed about: What Went Wrong In Iraq -- And How To Make It Right -- Joh..