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earlycomputers

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Since: Mar 18, 2007
Posts: 1



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:10 pm
Post subject: book sales statistics?
Archived from groups: alt>publish>books (more info?)

Hi - does anyone know where I can find out approximate sales figures
for non fiction books? I just want a rough idea on say how many books
are sold per year on the subject of collectibles. I want to publish a
book in this subject area and want an idea on how many other books on
collectibles are sold in a say a year. Many thanks! (ps I dont want
to subscribe to Nielsen data as I only need a rough guide and not any
ongoing data so it wouldn't be worth me subscribing to this).

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abzug

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Since: Jul 11, 2003
Posts: 240



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:56 pm
Post subject: Re: book sales statistics? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <1174252217.833542.261560.TakeThisOut@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
earlycomputers.TakeThisOut@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

> Hi - does anyone know where I can find out approximate sales figures
> for non fiction books? I just want a rough idea on say how many books
> are sold per year on the subject of collectibles. I want to publish a
> book in this subject area and want an idea on how many other books on
> collectibles are sold in a say a year. Many thanks! (ps I dont want
> to subscribe to Nielsen data as I only need a rough guide and not any
> ongoing data so it wouldn't be worth me subscribing to this).

Such statistics are rather hard to come by -- unless you want to pay big
bucks for the info. The usual marketing survey companies have figures,
such as Neilson (the same that does TV ratings) and other market
research firms hired by major publishers.

Some figures are on Dan Poynter's web site (free) at
http://www.parapublishing.com

Mostly, such figures are closely guarded by the large publishers, who
consider them "proprietary."

Best of luck to you.

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Rusty Wilson

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Since: Oct 05, 2006
Posts: 20



(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:16 pm
Post subject: Re: book sales statistics? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Ditto to everything Stella said. One other thought occured to me: IF
you're not afraid of the onset of depression, you might find a few friendly
booksellers and ask what their sense of the size of this niche market might
be (I suspect it'll be very small, something around 'infintesimal'). They
probably won't be able to give you anything like a nationwide sales figure,
but could say something about the relative sales of books like this, and you
may be able to extrapolate from there. Buy them a cup of coffee, and a nice
Barnes and Noble or B. Dalton employee might be willing/able to access some
of their company's inside info for you. And if there are specialty stores
where books like these are sold, you might try them, too.

I can tell you that, based on my research, the average self-published
non-fiction book sells 40 copies. Sorry, that's not a typo. 40. So my
best advice would be, enjoy the hell out of the writing. It may well be the
most rewarding part of the whole process.

Best of luck!
Rusty Wilson


<earlycomputers DeleteThis @yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1174252217.833542.261560@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Hi - does anyone know where I can find out approximate sales figures
> for non fiction books? I just want a rough idea on say how many books
> are sold per year on the subject of collectibles. I want to publish a
> book in this subject area and want an idea on how many other books on
> collectibles are sold in a say a year. Many thanks! (ps I dont want
> to subscribe to Nielsen data as I only need a rough guide and not any
> ongoing data so it wouldn't be worth me subscribing to this).
>
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abzug

External


Since: Jul 11, 2003
Posts: 240



(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:16 pm
Post subject: Re: book sales statistics? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <JuBMh.15304$tD2.15293@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
"Rusty Wilson" <RustyWilson3.TakeThisOut@Earthlink.net> wrote:
<snip>
> I can tell you that, based on my research, the average self-published
> non-fiction book sells 40 copies. Sorry, that's not a typo. 40. So my
> best advice would be, enjoy the hell out of the writing. It may well be the
> most rewarding part of the whole process.
>
> Best of luck!
> Rusty Wilson
>
Rusty,

You're a little on the negative side... The average book published
through one of the online subsidy publishers typically sells 40 to 100
copies (mostly to the author and friends). Actual, true self-published
books -- where the author is the publisher -- sell somewhat better --
500 copies and up (sometimes way up) depending on how much energy the
the author/publisher wants to put into the project.

Indeed, one non-fiction book that I've prepared the artwork for has sold
over 10,000 copies -- and now we're putting out a 4th edition. Lucky?
Hardly, the author/publisher loves his topic and has promoted the book
like crazy.
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Walter Traprock

External


Since: Dec 14, 2005
Posts: 38



(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:24 am
Post subject: Re: book sales statistics? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Stella Abzug <abzug RemoveThis @soda.pop.com> wrote:

> "Rusty Wilson" <RustyWilson3 RemoveThis @Earthlink.net> wrote:
> <snip>
> > I can tell you that, based on my research, the average self-published
> > non-fiction book sells 40 copies. Sorry, that's not a typo. 40. So my
> > best advice would be, enjoy the hell out of the writing. It may well be the
> > most rewarding part of the whole process.
>
> You're a little on the negative side... The average book published
> through one of the online subsidy publishers typically sells 40 to 100
> copies (mostly to the author and friends). Actual, true self-published
> books -- where the author is the publisher -- sell somewhat better --
> 500 copies and up (sometimes way up) depending on how much energy the
> the author/publisher wants to put into the project.
>
> Indeed, one non-fiction book that I've prepared the artwork for has sold
> over 10,000 copies -- and now we're putting out a 4th edition. Lucky?
> Hardly, the author/publisher loves his topic and has promoted the book
> like crazy.

What is the topic of the book, on self-publishing?
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user1617

External


Since: Dec 21, 2004
Posts: 19



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:02 pm
Post subject: Re: book sales statistics? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

earlycomputers.TakeThisOut@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> Hi - does anyone know where I can find out approximate sales figures
> for non fiction books? I just want a rough idea on say how many books
> are sold per year on the subject of collectibles. I want to publish a
> book in this subject area and want an idea on how many other books on
> collectibles are sold in a say a year. Many thanks! (ps I dont want
> to subscribe to Nielsen data as I only need a rough guide and not any
> ongoing data so it wouldn't be worth me subscribing to this).

May I suggest that you start with Amazon? I would begin by searching
the database for books that satisfy the same needs that your book
satisfies, or that serve the same readers (but on different topics).
These are the competition for your book.

Then look at the sales ranks for as many of these books as possible.
Figure out where the middle of the range is. Check several times over
the next few weeks, to see what the average rank for these books is.

Then, go to Morris Rosenthal's Foner Books site, or buy Aaron
Shephard's book Aiming at Amazon, and try to understand what those
numbers mean in terms of sales to/through Amazon.

Last, try to forecast what proportion of your sales will be through
Amazon, and what fraction will go through other outlets. Consider the
fact that you can't get much presence in bookstores unless your book
is carried by Ingram, and it's very hard to get into Ingram unless you
have a distributor or you are printing through LSI. Decide what level
of gross margin you can live with, and whether or not you can afford a
distributor.

Good luck,

Marion Gropen
Gropen Associates, Inc.
Financial and Management Consulting to Small Publishers
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abzug

External


Since: Jul 11, 2003
Posts: 240



(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:39 pm
Post subject: Re: book sales statistics? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <wetraprock-C28B11.11244323032007.RemoveThis@comcast.dca.giganews.com>,
Walter Traprock <wetraprock.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Stella Abzug <abzug.RemoveThis@soda.pop.com> wrote:
>
> > "Rusty Wilson" <RustyWilson3.RemoveThis@Earthlink.net> wrote:
> > <snip>
> > > I can tell you that, based on my research, the average self-published
> > > non-fiction book sells 40 copies. Sorry, that's not a typo. 40. So my
> > > best advice would be, enjoy the hell out of the writing. It may well be
> > > the
> > > most rewarding part of the whole process.
> >
> > You're a little on the negative side... The average book published
> > through one of the online subsidy publishers typically sells 40 to 100
> > copies (mostly to the author and friends). Actual, true self-published
> > books -- where the author is the publisher -- sell somewhat better --
> > 500 copies and up (sometimes way up) depending on how much energy the
> > the author/publisher wants to put into the project.
> >
> > Indeed, one non-fiction book that I've prepared the artwork for has sold
> > over 10,000 copies -- and now we're putting out a 4th edition. Lucky?
> > Hardly, the author/publisher loves his topic and has promoted the book
> > like crazy.
>
> What is the topic of the book, on self-publishing?

The book is Feather River Country Adventure Trails: 101 Fun Hikes within
the region of the Feather River upper middle fork, the lakes basin, and
the North Yuba River by Tom DeMund.

I've provided production services to a number of small/self publishers
who have sold thousands of books. Carved in Stone: The Greek Heritage by
Basil S. Douros. Essentially a "family history", this well written book
describes the experience, shared by many, of imigrating to the U.S. at
the turn of the 20th century. It has sold nearly 2000 copies.

What's Wrong with Dorfman? by John Blumenthal -- published as a
self-published novel, it was bought out and republished by a division of
St. Martins Press. The self-published version sold close to 2000 copies.
(It also was given considerable positive reviews, including being named
"One of the 10 best books of the year" by January Magazine.

Of course, I can't claim heavy involvement, but I advised Chris Paolini
about the interior design of the self-published version of Eragon that
sold very well. Picked up by a major publisher is became a NYT best
seller -- even out selling one of the Harry Potter books in one period
-- and a movie based on the book was recently released.

Don't Call Me Mother by Linda Joy Myers -- a memoir and healing book --
has sold hundreds of copies. It was originally published with a subsidy
publisher and republished independently by the author.

No One Can Ever Steal Your Rainbow by Barbara Meislin -- while
essentially a children's picture book, this book is non fiction and
delivers a message of hope (along with a CD of with a tune made from the
main story). The book has nearly sold out its initial printing of about
3500 copies in 18 months.

In the past 15 years, I've been involved in the production of hundreds
of titles -- most by self publishers -- and they have all sold, at
least, several hundred copies -- and a fair number have sold thousands
-- or at the very least, sold out their initial printing.

The factors that come together to get this result is truly independent
publishing -- not done with a subsidy publisher (where books rarely sell
more than 40-100 copies per title) but where the author has become a
publisher with thier own ISBN block, etc. The authors, have also been
highly motivated. WHile most have been better off financially than the
typical "starving" author, they have not had significant budgets
available to produce and sell their books. Finally, they all have
belonged to independent publisher support groups (such as the San
Francisco Bay Area Independent Publishers Association
<http://www.baipa.het>) and gotten assistance with the aspects of
publishing that they were unable to do for themselves.
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B. T. Raven

External


Since: Jul 13, 2006
Posts: 3



(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:33 am
Post subject: Re: book sales statistics? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Stella Abzug wrote:
> In article <wetraprock-C28B11.11244323032007.TakeThisOut@comcast.dca.giganews.com>,
> Walter Traprock <wetraprock.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Stella Abzug <abzug.TakeThisOut@soda.pop.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "Rusty Wilson" <RustyWilson3.TakeThisOut@Earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>>> I can tell you that, based on my research, the average self-published
>>>> non-fiction book sells 40 copies. Sorry, that's not a typo. 40. So my
>>>> best advice would be, enjoy the hell out of the writing. It may well be
>>>> the
>>>> most rewarding part of the whole process.
>>> You're a little on the negative side... The average book published
>>> through one of the online subsidy publishers typically sells 40 to 100
>>> copies (mostly to the author and friends). Actual, true self-published
>>> books -- where the author is the publisher -- sell somewhat better --
>>> 500 copies and up (sometimes way up) depending on how much energy the
>>> the author/publisher wants to put into the project.
>>>
>>> Indeed, one non-fiction book that I've prepared the artwork for has sold
>>> over 10,000 copies -- and now we're putting out a 4th edition. Lucky?
>>> Hardly, the author/publisher loves his topic and has promoted the book
>>> like crazy.
>> What is the topic of the book, on self-publishing?
>
> The book is Feather River Country Adventure Trails: 101 Fun Hikes within
> the region of the Feather River upper middle fork, the lakes basin, and
> the North Yuba River by Tom DeMund.
>
> I've provided production services to a number of small/self publishers
> who have sold thousands of books. Carved in Stone: The Greek Heritage by
> Basil S. Douros. Essentially a "family history", this well written book
> describes the experience, shared by many, of imigrating to the U.S. at
> the turn of the 20th century. It has sold nearly 2000 copies.
>
> What's Wrong with Dorfman? by John Blumenthal -- published as a
> self-published novel, it was bought out and republished by a division of
> St. Martins Press. The self-published version sold close to 2000 copies.
> (It also was given considerable positive reviews, including being named
> "One of the 10 best books of the year" by January Magazine.
>
> Of course, I can't claim heavy involvement, but I advised Chris Paolini
> about the interior design of the self-published version of Eragon that
> sold very well. Picked up by a major publisher is became a NYT best
> seller -- even out selling one of the Harry Potter books in one period
> -- and a movie based on the book was recently released.
>
> Don't Call Me Mother by Linda Joy Myers -- a memoir and healing book --
> has sold hundreds of copies. It was originally published with a subsidy
> publisher and republished independently by the author.
>
> No One Can Ever Steal Your Rainbow by Barbara Meislin -- while
> essentially a children's picture book, this book is non fiction and
> delivers a message of hope (along with a CD of with a tune made from the
> main story). The book has nearly sold out its initial printing of about
> 3500 copies in 18 months.
>
> In the past 15 years, I've been involved in the production of hundreds
> of titles -- most by self publishers -- and they have all sold, at
> least, several hundred copies -- and a fair number have sold thousands
> -- or at the very least, sold out their initial printing.
>
> The factors that come together to get this result is truly independent
> publishing -- not done with a subsidy publisher (where books rarely sell
> more than 40-100 copies per title) but where the author has become a
> publisher with thier own ISBN block, etc. The authors, have also been
> highly motivated. WHile most have been better off financially than the
> typical "starving" author, they have not had significant budgets
> available to produce and sell their books. Finally, they all have
> belonged to independent publisher support groups (such as the San
> Francisco Bay Area Independent Publishers Association
> <http://www.baipa.het>) and gotten assistance with the aspects of
> publishing that they were unable to do for themselves.

Good summation of the challenges and rewards, Stella. _Eragon_ is an example
offered in the wikipedia article on self-publishing. From which, another quote:

"However, many works now considered classic were originally self-published,
including the original writings of William Blake, Virginia Woolf, Walt
Whitman, William Morris, and James Joyce."

Heard of any of these guys?


Another recent example of a self-published book (albeit with financial and
technical resources that vastly outstrip those of most other self-publishers)is:

http://www.wolframscience.com/nksonline/page-1264-text?firstview=1

Except for the cover, this was all rendered in black and white but with
extremely high production values (typography, page composition, graphics,
binding, etc.)

I don't know how many people bought this book but I doubt that 1% of those
who bought it managed to finish it. ($44.95US $69.95CAN) I have the book but
I don't (yet?) "have" the book.

Ed
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