bookseller?

Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:

> Allan Adler wrote:
>
>> Recently, I was at a library and noticed someone sitting by some books
>> being sold by the library. This person was using a laptop to connect
>> via wifi to Amazon. Apparently he/she was looking up the sale books
>> at Amazon, but I couldn't see in greater detail what was being done.
>>
>> My guess is that he/she is listed at Amazon as a bookseller and was
>> listing the library sale books as being available from him/her, setting
>> the price at a level that would be competitive with the ones already
>> listed.
>
>
> Or maybe he/she was trying to find out if the books were worth buying.
>

Yes, the imputation of evil motives is somewhat akin to a violation of Ockham's
Razor.


Francis A. Miniter
 >> Stay informed about: bookseller? 

Allan Adler wrote:
> Recently, I was at a library and noticed someone sitting by some books
> being sold by the library. This person was using a laptop to connect
> via wifi to Amazon. Apparently he/she was looking up the sale books
> at Amazon, but I couldn't see in greater detail what was being done.
>
> My guess is that he/she is listed at Amazon as a bookseller and was
> listing the library sale books as being available from him/her, setting
> the price at a level that would be competitive with the ones already
> listed. Since the library typically sells the books for no more than
> $2 each, that could be quite profitable if the book is ever sold by
> that bookseller. Furthermore, the bookseller doesn't have to warehouse
> the books: the library does it for him/her. Even the wifi hotspot is
> provided by the library. True, an individual book might be sold by the
> library before it can be ordered online, but these things happen and,
> if the book is subsequently ordered, a bookseller can simply report
> that the book is no longer available. That might reflect badly on the
> bookseller, from Amazon's point of view. But a conscientious bookseller
> engaged in this particular enterprise might regularly visit the library
> book sale books and update the inventory to see which ones are still
> available, making the scenario less likely in which a book is ordered
> and found not to be available.
>
> In fact, that might be what this individual was really doing: updating
> the inventory and cancelling his/her listings of books that were no longer
> available.
>
> I have to admit, that does sound pretty enterprising. And one does often
> find good books on sale at libraries. I can't go to every library to see
> what it has to offer and, in effect, this bookseller is offering the
> service of doing it for me.
>
> The only thing that does bother me, I guess, is that I would much rather
> see this source or revenue going to the library. Maybe the people who
> run library book sales (volunteers, I think) should take a lesson from
> this entrepreneur.

If your theory is correct, that person is not going to be around for
long. Their negatives from cancelling orders will quickly drop them off
the radar, as they won't be able to fulfil orders with any degree of
regularity. It would be much smarter to buy the books and keep them in
your control.

I'd say they were just pricing stuff.
 >> Stay informed about: bookseller? 

"Evelyn C. Leeper" <eleeper.RemoveThis@optonline.net> writes:

> Allan Adler wrote:
> > Recently, I was at a library and noticed someone sitting by some books
> > being sold by the library. This person was using a laptop to connect
> > via wifi to Amazon. Apparently he/she was looking up the sale books
> > at Amazon, but I couldn't see in greater detail what was being done.
> >
> > My guess is that he/she is listed at Amazon as a bookseller and was
> > listing the library sale books as being available from him/her, setting
> > the price at a level that would be competitive with the ones already
> > listed.
>
> Or maybe he/she was trying to find out if the books were worth buying.

Since the shipping costs alone of an Amazon book purchase are typically about
$3.49 and the book itself only costs a maximum of $2 from the library, with
no shipping or handling charges at all, the possibility that he/she was
investing all that effort in finding out whether the library was offering
better deals than Amazon is simply not credible.
--
Ignorantly,
Allan Adler <ara.RemoveThis@zurich.csail.mit.edu>
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT CSAIL. My actions and
* comments do not reflect in any way on MIT. Also, I am nowhere near Boston.
 >> Stay informed about: bookseller? 

Allan Adler wrote:
> "Evelyn C. Leeper" <eleeper.DeleteThis@optonline.net> writes:
>
>> Allan Adler wrote:
>>> Recently, I was at a library and noticed someone sitting by some books
>>> being sold by the library. This person was using a laptop to connect
>>> via wifi to Amazon. Apparently he/she was looking up the sale books
>>> at Amazon, but I couldn't see in greater detail what was being done.
>>>
>>> My guess is that he/she is listed at Amazon as a bookseller and was
>>> listing the library sale books as being available from him/her, setting
>>> the price at a level that would be competitive with the ones already
>>> listed.
>> Or maybe he/she was trying to find out if the books were worth buying.
>
> Since the shipping costs alone of an Amazon book purchase are typically about
> $3.49 and the book itself only costs a maximum of $2 from the library, with
> no shipping or handling charges at all, the possibility that he/she was
> investing all that effort in finding out whether the library was offering
> better deals than Amazon is simply not credible.

Who is postulating that? That's pretty silly. I think what Evelyn is
saying, and I certainly am, is that the most likely explanation is that
the person was a bookseller looking up the resale value of the books on
Amazon in order to buy them and take them home. If you find a $50 book
for $2 at a book sale, you'd buy it and take it home before someone else
got it, wouldn't you? Why list it for sale and leave it there when
someone else can buy it out from under you? That's incredibly stupid.
 >> Stay informed about: bookseller? 

"Allan Adler" <ara DeleteThis @nestle.csail.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:y934phze9fj.fsf@nestle.csail.mit.edu...
> "Evelyn C. Leeper" <eleeper DeleteThis @optonline.net> writes:
>
>> Allan Adler wrote:
>> > Recently, I was at a library and noticed someone sitting by some books
>> > being sold by the library. This person was using a laptop to connect
>> > via wifi to Amazon. Apparently he/she was looking up the sale books
>> > at Amazon, but I couldn't see in greater detail what was being done.
>> >
>> > My guess is that he/she is listed at Amazon as a bookseller and was
>> > listing the library sale books as being available from him/her, setting
>> > the price at a level that would be competitive with the ones already
>> > listed.
>>
>> Or maybe he/she was trying to find out if the books were worth buying.
>
> Since the shipping costs alone of an Amazon book purchase are typically
> about
> $3.49 and the book itself only costs a maximum of $2 from the library,
> with
> no shipping or handling charges at all, the possibility that he/she was
> investing all that effort in finding out whether the library was offering
> better deals than Amazon is simply not credible.
> --
> Ignorantly,
> Allan Adler <ara DeleteThis @zurich.csail.mit.edu>

Evelyn wrote:
>>Or maybe he/she was trying to find out if the books were worth buying.

Add two words to the end of that sentence: "for resale".
 >> Stay informed about: bookseller? 

"Kris Baker" <kris.baker DeleteThis @prodigyyy.net> writes:

> Evelyn wrote:
> >>Or maybe he/she was trying to find out if the books were worth buying.
>
> Add two words to the end of that sentence: "for resale".

Thanks for that clarification.
--
Ignorantly,
Allan Adler <ara DeleteThis @zurich.csail.mit.edu>
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT CSAIL. My actions and
* comments do not reflect in any way on MIT. Also, I am nowhere near Boston.
 >> Stay informed about: bookseller? 

On Sep 12, 7:01 am, Allan Adler <a....TakeThisOut@nestle.csail.mit.edu> wrote:
> Recently, I was at a library and noticed someone sitting by some books
> being sold by the library. This person was using a laptop to connect
> via wifi to Amazon. Apparently he/she was looking up the sale books
> at Amazon, but I couldn't see in greater detail what was being done.
>
> My guess is that he/she is listed at Amazon as a bookseller and was
> listing the library sale books as being available from him/her, setting
> the price at a level that would be competitive with the ones already
> listed. Since the library typically sells the books for no more than
> $2 each, that could be quite profitable if the book is ever sold by
> that bookseller. Furthermore, the bookseller doesn't have to warehouse
> the books: the library does it for him/her. Even the wifi hotspot is
> provided by the library. True, an individual book might be sold by the
> library before it can be ordered online, but these things happen and,
> if the book is subsequently ordered, a bookseller can simply report
> that the book is no longer available. That might reflect badly on the
> bookseller, from Amazon's point of view. But a conscientious bookseller
> engaged in this particular enterprise might regularly visit the library
> book sale books and update the inventory to see which ones are still
> available, making the scenario less likely in which a book is ordered
> and found not to be available.
>
> In fact, that might be what this individual was really doing: updating
> the inventory and cancelling his/her listings of books that were no longer
> available.
>
> I have to admit, that does sound pretty enterprising. And one does often
> find good books on sale at libraries. I can't go to every library to see
> what it has to offer and, in effect, this bookseller is offering the
> service of doing it for me.

Actually, the person sounds rather petty and stupid. In
the first place, the cheap nitwit is listing books that he
does not have in his possession. If those books cost
a couple of dollars and are a genuine bargain, the chances
are someone else will snap them up, resulting in lack
of fulfillment by the listing. I don't know about this
particular library donation store, but with reference to
most of them I have visited, it is very unusual to find
more than a half-dozen books on sale for a dollar or
two which can be listed at an Amazon Low Price of
upwards of $10. The person you describe, then,
is too cheap to invest in a few books for a couple of
dollars each even after the person has learned that
the books can very likely fetch at least four or five
times what he pays for them. Sort of like,with
exteme irony, "Excuse me, you look familiar.
Aren't you Warren Buffet?"

It is a fact that that more people are using hand-helds
at library donation stores, thrifts, etc. Good bargains
with ISBN numbers seem to disappear much faster
than they used to. However, at least in my area,
there are still plenty of bargains to be found on
pre-ISBN books. Most of the people who
have to rely on a hand held to tell them whether a
book priced at one dollar or two is a good buy are
are not savvy enough to price a pre-ISBN booik.

>
> The only thing that does bother me, I guess, is that I would much rather
> see this source or revenue going to the library. Maybe the people who
> run library book sales (volunteers, I think) should take a lesson from
> this entrepreneur.

I think a suggestion I posted a while back is
a good one. Library and donation stores should
price books through Cash4Books or similar
venues. Now, I did not say "sell" to those
places. The point is, if libraries, etc., PRICE
about the same as those venues pay, they will
still be pricing far lower than the used book
stores in their areas -- and they won't have dopey
greedheads buying books from the library or
thrift for $2 and selling them to Cash4Books
(or, for that matter,to neighborhood book
stores) for $4.

[Memo from the upstairs office]
> --
> Ignorantly,
> Allan Adler <a....TakeThisOut@zurich.csail.mit.edu>
> * Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT CSAIL. My actions and
> * comments do not reflect in any way on MIT. Also, I am nowhere near Boston.
 >> Stay informed about: bookseller? 

Bill wrote:
> On Sep 12, 7:01 am, Allan Adler <a....TakeThisOut@nestle.csail.mit.edu> wrote:
>
>>Recently, I was at a library and noticed someone sitting by some books
>>being sold by the library. This person was using a laptop to connect
>>via wifi to Amazon. Apparently he/she was looking up the sale books
>>at Amazon, but I couldn't see in greater detail what was being done.
>>
>>My guess is that he/she is listed at Amazon as a bookseller and was
>>listing the library sale books as being available from him/her, setting
>>the price at a level that would be competitive with the ones already
>>listed. Since the library typically sells the books for no more than
>>$2 each, that could be quite profitable if the book is ever sold by
>>that bookseller. Furthermore, the bookseller doesn't have to warehouse
>>the books: the library does it for him/her. Even the wifi hotspot is
>>provided by the library. True, an individual book might be sold by the
>>library before it can be ordered online, but these things happen and,
>>if the book is subsequently ordered, a bookseller can simply report
>>that the book is no longer available. That might reflect badly on the
>>bookseller, from Amazon's point of view. But a conscientious bookseller
>>engaged in this particular enterprise might regularly visit the library
>>book sale books and update the inventory to see which ones are still
>>available, making the scenario less likely in which a book is ordered
>>and found not to be available.
>>
>>In fact, that might be what this individual was really doing: updating
>>the inventory and cancelling his/her listings of books that were no longer
>>available.
>>
>>I have to admit, that does sound pretty enterprising. And one does often
>>find good books on sale at libraries. I can't go to every library to see
>>what it has to offer and, in effect, this bookseller is offering the
>>service of doing it for me.
>
>
> Actually, the person sounds rather petty and stupid. In
> the first place, the cheap nitwit is listing books that he
> does not have in his possession.


If you read the responses, I think you will see that most of us have concluded
that the person was not listing books for sale but checking out what he could
get selling them retail if he were to buy them and list them.


Francis A. Miniter
 >> Stay informed about: bookseller? 

"Francis A. Miniter" <miniter RemoveThis @attglobalZZ.net> writes:

>If you read the responses, I think you will see that most of us have concluded
>that the person was not listing books for sale but checking out what he could
>get selling them retail if he were to buy them and list them.

Most of us, perhaps, but not all of us. There is a definite advantage to not
having to risk any capital or to have to maintain any kind of storage facility.
Also, the mere fact that a book is listed online at a certain price doesn't
mean that anyone is buying it at that price or any price. The online listings
would be useful information if they were prices that people said they were
willing to pay. It is not unusual to see books being listed for thousands
of dollars at Amazon, just because some bookseller is waiting for someone
who is both rich enough and desperate enough to pay it. It doesn't mean that
someone can actually sell that book at any price.

Someone suggested that the books move too quickly for such a scheme to work.
I'm not sure that is true.

What I'm wondering now is how many booksellers might be listing the very
same books, all sitting on the library sale shelf.
--
Ignorantly,
Allan Adler <ara RemoveThis @zurich.csail.mit.edu>
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT CSAIL. My actions and
* comments do not reflect in any way on MIT. Also, I am nowhere near Boston.
 >> Stay informed about: bookseller? 

On Sep 15, 7:48 am, "Francis A. Miniter" <mini... DeleteThis @attglobalZZ.net>
wrote:
> Bill wrote:
> > On Sep 12, 7:01 am, Allan Adler <a... DeleteThis @nestle.csail.mit.edu> wrote:
>
> >>Recently, I was at a library and noticed someone sitting by some books
> >>being sold by the library. This person was using a laptop to connect
> >>via wifi to Amazon. Apparently he/she was looking up the sale books
> >>at Amazon, but I couldn't see in greater detail what was being done.
>
> >>My guess is that he/she is listed at Amazon as a bookseller and was
> >>listing the library sale books as being available from him/her, setting
> >>the price at a level that would be competitive with the ones already
> >>listed. Since the library typically sells the books for no more than
> >>$2 each, that could be quite profitable if the book is ever sold by
> >>that bookseller. Furthermore, the bookseller doesn't have to warehouse
> >>the books: the library does it for him/her. Even the wifi hotspot is
> >>provided by the library. True, an individual book might be sold by the
> >>library before it can be ordered online, but these things happen and,
> >>if the book is subsequently ordered, a bookseller can simply report
> >>that the book is no longer available. That might reflect badly on the
> >>bookseller, from Amazon's point of view. But a conscientious bookseller
> >>engaged in this particular enterprise might regularly visit the library
> >>book sale books and update the inventory to see which ones are still
> >>available, making the scenario less likely in which a book is ordered
> >>and found not to be available.
>
> >>In fact, that might be what this individual was really doing: updating
> >>the inventory and cancelling his/her listings of books that were no longer
> >>available.
>
> >>I have to admit, that does sound pretty enterprising. And one does often
> >>find good books on sale at libraries. I can't go to every library to see
> >>what it has to offer and, in effect, this bookseller is offering the
> >>service of doing it for me.
>
> > Actually, the person sounds rather petty and stupid. In
> > the first place, the cheap nitwit is listing books that he
> > does not have in his possession.
>
> If you read the responses, I think you will see that most of us have concluded
> that the person was not listing books for sale but checking out what he could
> get selling them retail if he were to buy them and list them.
>
> Francis A. Miniter- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You may be right, but I was using the "let's assume
the poster is correct -- then what?" approach.
 >> Stay informed about: bookseller? 

"Allan Adler" <ara.RemoveThis@nestle.csail.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:y93zlzn9z53.fsf@nestle.csail.mit.edu...
> "Francis A. Miniter" <miniter.RemoveThis@attglobalZZ.net> writes:
>
>>If you read the responses, I think you will see that most of us have
>>concluded
>>that the person was not listing books for sale but checking out what he
>>could
>>get selling them retail if he were to buy them and list them.
>
> Most of us, perhaps, but not all of us. There is a definite advantage to
> not
> having to risk any capital or to have to maintain any kind of storage
> facility.
> Also, the mere fact that a book is listed online at a certain price
> doesn't
> mean that anyone is buying it at that price or any price. The online
> listings
> would be useful information if they were prices that people said they were
> willing to pay. It is not unusual to see books being listed for thousands
> of dollars at Amazon, just because some bookseller is waiting for someone
> who is both rich enough and desperate enough to pay it. It doesn't mean
> that
> someone can actually sell that book at any price.
>
> Someone suggested that the books move too quickly for such a scheme to
> work.
> I'm not sure that is true.
>
> What I'm wondering now is how many booksellers might be listing the very
> same books, all sitting on the library sale shelf.
> --
> Ignorantly,
> Allan Adler

Into conspiracy theories, eh?

An intelligent bookseller (or picker) would have base his
picks on whether the market was already flooded, if there
were known needs for the books *at a certain price point*,
etc. But most of the automated systems I'm acquainted
with, are just databases tied to an ISBN. I can't imagine
anyone listing books he hasn't bought yet.

Kris
Skeptic
 >> Stay informed about: bookseller? 

"Kris Baker" <kris.baker.TakeThisOut@prodigyyy.net> writes:

Allan Adler wrote:
> > What I'm wondering now is how many booksellers might be listing the very
> > same books, all sitting on the library sale shelf.

> Into conspiracy theories, eh?

Actually, no. First of all, by wondering how many booksellers might be listing
the very same book, one doesn't rule out the possibility that the number is
zero, which is your position. Second, even if one assumes the number is
greater than one, it is entirely possible that the booksellers in question
are not acting in concert but that, instead, they coincidentally happen, in
some cases, to have listed the same book. Coincidences do happen and the
recognition of that fact is diametrically opposed to the main premises of
most consipiracy theories (leaving aside the outright lies).

> An intelligent bookseller (or picker) would have base his picks on whether
> the market was already flooded, if there were known needs for the books *at
> a certain price point*, etc. But most of the automated systems I'm acquainted
> with, are just databases tied to an ISBN. I can't imagine anyone listing
> books he hasn't bought yet.

You might be right. I'm keeping an open mind about it. But, since you
seem to know how these systems actually work, which is an interesting
topic in its own right, maybe you can say a little more about them.
For starters, what are the automated systems you're acquainted with?
--
Ignorantly,
Allan Adler <ara.TakeThisOut@zurich.csail.mit.edu>
* Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT CSAIL. My actions and
* comments do not reflect in any way on MIT. Also, I am nowhere near Boston.
 >> Stay informed about: bookseller? 

On Sep 15, 6:28 pm, Allan Adler <a... DeleteThis @nestle.csail.mit.edu> wrote:
> "Francis A. Miniter" <mini... DeleteThis @attglobalZZ.net> writes:
>
> >If you read the responses, I think you will see that most of us have concluded
> >that the person was not listing books for sale but checking out what he could
> >get selling them retail if he were to buy them and list them.
>
> Most of us, perhaps, but not all of us. There is a definite advantage to not
> having to risk any capital or to have to maintain any kind of storage facility.

Exactly how much "capital" would we be talking about
here? If the library in question is anything like the
library near where I live, the "capital" would rarely be
more than $10, because most of their stuff has an
Amazon Low Price of a couple of dollars, and therefore
would not be worth the bother.

> Also, the mere fact that a book is listed online at a certain price doesn't
> mean that anyone is buying it at that price or any price. The online listings
> would be useful information if they were prices that people said they were
> willing to pay. It is not unusual to see books being listed for thousands
> of dollars at Amazon, just because some bookseller is waiting for someone
> who is both rich enough and desperate enough to pay it. It doesn't mean that
> someone can actually sell that book at any price.

I would maintain that approach I suggested to
valuing books is one worth considering. You
throw out the fantasy prices, those which are
ridiculously high. You also throw out the
suspiciously low prices. Then you average
the prices left. For example, let's say a dealer
is asking $500 for a book that four reputable
dealers are asking $30, $35, $40, and $50
dollars for. I would value that book at $38.75,
or, we might as well say, about $40. If there
was a suspicious listing of the same book
in the same condition for $3, I would throw
that price along with the fantasy price. That
approach is far from infalliable, but is certainly
more accurate than looking up the price in
somebody's printed book.

I certainly agree that listings for many books
on Amazon include fantasy prices. Maybe
there are a lot of rubes on the net with money
to burn these days. Maybe they feel they can
get more "culture" from a book with a wildly
inflated price tag...
>
> Someone suggested that the books move too quickly for such a scheme to work.
> I'm not sure that is true.

It was a valid point. What sort of "entrepreneur"
is going to risk a flock of Amazon lack of fulfillment
ratings just because his "capital" is not sufficient to
allow him to shell out $10 or $20 dollars for a number
of books worth many times that amount, judging
by the Amazon Low Price?
>
> What I'm wondering now is how many booksellers might be listing the very
> same books, all sitting on the library sale shelf.

Again, just for fun assuming your suspicions are
correct, the ones doing that are likely the "booksellers"
who peddle to the donation store on a bicyle with big
wire baskets on the rear wheel, who wear glasses
with lenses looking like the bottoms of Coca Cola
bottles, who wear heavy overcoats on a hot day, and
conduct business from a cockroach-infested attic
they reside in over a garage.

More seriously, I personally think your suspicions
are baseless, because the library donation stores
in my area have -- on a typical day -- such a large
percentage of books with an Amazon Low Price
equal to or below the trifle the library is asking
for them. As for the few that would be worth
listing, any bookseller I know would much rather
shell out a few dollars for them than risk bad
customer ratings due to listing books he does
not actually have. You scenario suggests a dim
bulb of a book dealer saying to himself, "Gee,
someone just ordered this book I listed on
Amazon for $18. I had better rush over to the
library donation store and buy it for $2, then."
Seems like a trivial way to do business, but
then, since there seem to be so many "Shipping
Charge Scrounges" listing books for a penny,
so they can scrape out a dirty nickel, so to
speak, in the difference between what Amazon
reimburses them and what they actually pay
for postage and packing materials, I suppose
anything is possible. Sigh...

[Memo from the upstairs office.]
> --
> Ignorantly,
> Allan Adler <a... DeleteThis @zurich.csail.mit.edu>
> * Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT CSAIL. My actions and
> * comments do not reflect in any way on MIT. Also, I am nowhere near Boston.
 >> Stay informed about: bookseller?