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dtcmcw

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Since: Aug 26, 2003
Posts: 1



(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 9:40 pm
Post subject: Self Publishing
Archived from groups: alt>publish>books (more info?)

I need some one to share with me the easiest and cost efficant way to
publish your first book.

Pastor Martin Wilson, I
www.divinitytemple.net

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atakeoutcanton

External


Since: Jun 27, 2003
Posts: 9



(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:19 am
Post subject: Re: Self Publishing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Pastor Maritn Wilson,I wrote:

 > I need some one to share with me the easiest and cost efficant way to
 > publish your first book.
 >
 > Pastor Martin Wilson, I
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.divinitytemple.net</font" target="_blank">www.divinitytemple.net</font</a>>

There are a million answers to this question. My advice is to get Dan
Poynter's famous Self Publishing Manual (see <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.parapub.com" target="_blank">www.parapub.com</a>) and go from
there. When you have digested that, come back here and ask specific
questions. We'll all help you find the best method for your needs.


Al Canton
Adams-Blake Company, Inc.

** Comming soon... PUB456: a web based solution
** to back-office chores... order entry, invoicing, reports, ect.
** Wait for it!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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mgropen

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Since: Jul 09, 2003
Posts: 31



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Self Publishing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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<< I need some one to share with me the easiest and cost efficant way to
publish your first book.

Pastor Martin Wilson, I
www.divinitytemple.net >><BR><BR>

Pastor Wilson,

There are many good books on publishing yourself. In addition, there are a
number of sites with extensive resources to assist you, and there are email
communities for self-publishers.

My site lists many of each, at http://www.GropenAssoc.com/

The most popular how-to books seem to be Fern Reiss' Publishing Game series,
Dan Poynter's book, John Kremer's Marketing book, and the Ross and Ross book.

Please also feel welcome to join the Self-Publishing listserv at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/self-publishing.

(Disclaimer: I volunteer to co-moderate that group, so I may not be utterly
objective when I say that I think it is a very good place to look!)



Marion Gropen
Gropen Associates, Inc.
consultant to small publishers on finance, accounting, and management
www.GropenAssoc.com
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shydavid

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Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 7



(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 10:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Self Publishing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On 26 Aug 2003 18:40:25 -0700, dtcmcw.RemoveThis@charter.net (Pastor Maritn
Wilson,I) wrote:

 > I need some one to share with me the easiest and cost efficant way to
 > publish your first book.

The first step is to write a book worth reading. After that step,
vanity press is redundant.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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user564

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Since: Aug 20, 2003
Posts: 12



(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 3:11 pm
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I would like to tie myself over to the discussion with ShyDavid RemoveThis @notreal.org
(ShyDavid) on Wed, 27 Aug 2003 19:12:18 GMT:
  >> I need some one to share with me the easiest and cost efficant way to
  >> publish your first book.
 >
 >The first step is to write a book worth reading. After that step,
 >vanity press is redundant.

You're right with the first step. However, that step is really just a first
step of a long journey where you will most probably fail to reach the end.
Maybe 5% of good books reach readers. Of those 5%, maybe 5% do more than
cover the costs.

Domchi

--
Ouroboros Publishing - <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ouroboros.hr" target="_blank">http://www.ouroboros.hr</a>
Antispam: to reply, remove extra monkey from reply-to address.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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shydavid

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Since: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 7



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 12:05 am
Post subject: Re: Self Publishing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:11:22 +0200, Domagoj Klepac
<no_spam_sent.2.domchi.RemoveThis@spamgourmet.com> wrote:

 > I would like to tie myself over to the discussion with ShyDavid.RemoveThis@notreal.org
 > (ShyDavid) on Wed, 27 Aug 2003 19:12:18 GMT:

   >>> I need some one to share with me the easiest and cost efficant way to
   >>> publish your first book.

  > >The first step is to write a book worth reading. After that step,
  > >vanity press is redundant.

 > You're right with the first step. However, that step is really just a first
 > step of a long journey where you will most probably fail to reach the end.
 > Maybe 5% of good books reach readers. Of those 5%, maybe 5% do more than
 > cover the costs.

Are you saying that 95% of well-written, worth-reading books are never
published?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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mgropen

External


Since: Jul 09, 2003
Posts: 31



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 12:59 am
Post subject: Re: Self Publishing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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<< Maybe 5% of good books reach readers. Of those 5%, maybe 5% do more than
 > cover the costs.

Are you saying that 95% of well-written, worth-reading books are never
published?

   >><BR><BR>
The previous poster didn't mean never published, I think, but not published in
such a way that they find their audience.

After 13 years in publishing houses, some as large as Simon & Schuster and some
as small as $5million a year, I would agree.

I cannot tell you how often we would have a book that was marvelous, and about
which we were very excited, but which fizzled badly.

Learn from the books about publishing and from sites like mine. Plan to
maximize your chances of success. Assess the risks you can take. Prepare for
both success and failure. Consultants can supplement your own expertise.

Then go do it.


Marion Gropen
Gropen Associates, Inc.
consultant to small publishers on finance, accounting, and management
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.GropenAssoc.com" target="_blank">www.GropenAssoc.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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abzug

External


Since: Jul 11, 2003
Posts: 240



(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 4:32 am
Post subject: Re: Self Publishing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <20030829175959.17919.00000151.DeleteThis@mb-m05.aol.com>,
mgropen.DeleteThis@aol.com (Marion Gropen) wrote:

 > << Maybe 5% of good books reach readers. Of those 5%, maybe 5% do more than
  > > cover the costs.
 >
 > Are you saying that 95% of well-written, worth-reading books are never
 > published?
 >
   > >><BR><BR>
 > The previous poster didn't mean never published, I think, but not published
 > in
 > such a way that they find their audience.

 >

I think you have to first ask the question: What is success for a self
publisher?

To be sure, there are probably nearly as many answers as there are
publishers.

One client was a published mid-list author -- and his publisher decided
he didn't want his next book. (Mid-list authors having been replaced by
MBAs who pointed out that the big profits all come from blockbusters. Of
course, they didn't realize that blockbusters can often start out as
solid mid-list authors -- or that all those mid-list books pay a lot of
overhead even if they don't generate much profit.)

We did a press run of 2000 books for my client. He sent hundreds of
copies out for reviews and sold some as well. He got some great reviews
(this author wrote some good mid-list "hits" selling 10 to 30 thousand
copies in the past.) One reviewer included the self-published book as
one of the 10 best of the year (2000). Then, publishers started coming
around... but my client held off (he didn't grab the first deal
offered). Finally, he accepted a deal with St. Martins. They are
re-publishing his book under their imprint (having paid a nice advance
for it), but (most important to my client), they have agreed to take his
next two books. That was this client's goal from the day he decided to
self publish. He wanted a "big" publisher to buy out his book _and_
agree to publishing future books. (It helped that the MBA influence has
declined at some of the publishers.)

Another client wrote a book of spiritual renewal that tells the story of
her 25-year-old son's last few months. Her son had been quite the "party
animal" -- but alcohol abuse can cause severe reactions, including, in
his case, serious heart failure. The son was waiting for a transplant in
"critical care" and was attached to a "Ventricular Assist Device." The
book goes on (in this marketer's opinion) far too long (it's 586 pages)
describing the day by day ups and downs of medical care. During this
ordeal, both the mother (author) and son re-connected their relationship
with God and their spiritual aspects of their lives. Eventually, the
horrible decision to pull the plug had to be made (no heart having
become available and the son becoming weaker by the day). In this case,
simply getting the book published was the goal of this author. She was
"driven" to tell her son's story. She has been selling modest quantities
of the book, usually after giving a talk about her and her son's
experiences. What is success in this case? The process of writing this
book has helped this mother deal with the early death of her adult son.
It was quite possibly less expensive than 5 years of psychotherapy.
Perhaps a success in this case can be measured in the emotional
well-being of the author, rather than any monetary measure.

Yet another client loves to hike in a particular region of the Sierra
Mountains (in Northern California). He wrote a book describing 100 hikes
in the region. He was turned down by two smaller publishers (of similar
books). He was given advice by one of the publishers to expand the area
covered by his book (it was too concentrated) and it was explained that
the book would not be practical to print in color. (He wanted color maps
and color photos to better promote the region.) So, he went ahead and
self-published. The first edition was received from the printer in March
2002, a press run of about 3500 copies. 400 copies were given to one of
the hike publishers, who didn't want to publish the book, but was
willing to distribute it to the trade for my client. My client then
proceeded to sell the remaining copies -- selling out by mid-summer. He
focused on retailers in the region of the hikes. (He netted, perhaps,
$20,000 or so.) He then did a second edition (some hiking trails had
changed during the time it took to write the first edition). He then
printed another 3500 copies -- received them this spring. He resupplied
the publisher for trade distribution (the previous 400 copies had sold
out) and then went on to sell a significant portion of the 2nd edition
in the same area as the first edition. The 2nd ed is presently a bit
past breakeven and he has a stock of 1500 copies (or so) to carry him
into next year's hiking season. Financially, the book has done
reasonably well-- but it certainly isn't "quit your day job" success.
(My client is reasonably well-off retired -- the book revenue was a nice
"bonus" to his income.) His goal was to raise awareness of the region --
and it has achieved some modest success in that regard. (I, for one,
will be travelling to the area next week for my third late summer
visit.) My client is satisfied with the project. In this case, "success"
for a self-published book has been attained.

So, to measure "success", you first have to establish _exactly_ what
goals you're trying to attain, then determine if your project reaches or
exceeds those goals. Then, you may have a success -- even if the book is
not the financial success you may have wished for.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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res186l0

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Since: Sep 09, 2003
Posts: 1



(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2003 9:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Self Publishing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Pastor Wilson,

If you don't want to do all the work described in the replies you have so
far, I can help you.

If you have the text already typed in, I will help you get the books into
your garage, under your OWN publishing company name. My company does not
self publish books, but we do help self publishers get their book in print.

For example, we helped AHW Publishing, from Spokane Washington publish CHILD
OF WAR, ISBN 0-9741434-0-5.
She had the text, and we helped her set up the publishing company under her
own name, and we took her electronic file, and did the rest. She paid us,
and books were delivered to her garage. We took care of typesetting,
printing, cover design, everything. Once books were delivered, the rest of
it (sales) is up to her.

Make sense? If interested, give me an email!

Diana Luce
publisher RemoveThis @thisnewworld.com
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.thisnewworld.com" target="_blank">www.thisnewworld.com</a>


"Pastor Maritn Wilson,I" <dtcmcw RemoveThis @charter.net> wrote in message
news:e564c7e8.0308261740.6ae9c2fd@posting.google.com...
 > I need some one to share with me the easiest and cost efficant way to
 > publish your first book.
 >
 > Pastor Martin Wilson, I
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.divinitytemple.net</font" target="_blank">www.divinitytemple.net</font</a>><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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john22

External


Since: Jul 27, 2003
Posts: 72



(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2003 8:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Self Publishing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"RES186L0" <RES186L0 DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote in message news:<JWo7b.17685$ae6.14601@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>...
 > Pastor Wilson,
 >
 > If you don't want to do all the work described in the replies you have so
 > far, I can help you.
 >
 > If you have the text already typed in, I will help you get the books into
 > your garage, under your OWN publishing company name. My company does not
 > self publish books, but we do help self publishers get their book in print.
 >
You function as a book packager, which is a useful function. However
there are many such. What makes your offering attractive when compared
to the others? Price? Experience?

BTW here is a list of packagers
I assembled.

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://frugalfun.com" target="_blank">http://frugalfun.com</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://writerscollective.com" target="_blank">http://writerscollective.com</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.bookwrights.com" target="_blank">http://www.bookwrights.com</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.cedarhousepublishers.com" target="_blank">http://www.cedarhousepublishers.com</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.eyelevelbooks.co.uk" target="_blank">http://www.eyelevelbooks.co.uk</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.glbpubs.com/ppsumm.html" target="_blank">http://www.glbpubs.com/ppsumm.html</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.karmichaelpress.com" target="_blank">http://www.karmichaelpress.com</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.silvercat.com" target="_blank">http://www.silvercat.com</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.writingandeditingatwork.com" target="_blank">http://www.writingandeditingatwork.com</a>

The orgiinal poster should check these folks out too.

John Culleton<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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drthompson

External


Since: Oct 01, 2003
Posts: 5



(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 6:01 am
Post subject: Re: Self Publishing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Price and one-stop-shopping. We do everything you need. You give us the
text, we deliver books, and we'll even set you up with a basic, free web
page where you can sell your book. I say, get a quote from whomever you
want. Tell them what you want, and what services you need from them, and
ask how much. Compare, shop around. Tell them exactly what you'll GIVE
them to work with, and what you want as the end result. Then see if I can
beat it.

I haven't shopped them all, but when I have run across them when I was
checking out various printing options, I have found them to be overpriced,
and not full-service. Especially in the area of any design work, and in
full color printing. But the ones I've checked out aren't actually on your
list at all. Such as booksjustbooks and xlibris.

Good luck to you, what ever route you take!


"John Culleton" <john DeleteThis @wexfordpress.com> wrote in message
news:e5acd666.0309221603.5a2cb1d3@posting.google.com...
 > "RES186L0" <RES186L0 DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote in message
news:<JWo7b.17685$ae6.14601@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>...
  > > Pastor Wilson,
  > >
  > > If you don't want to do all the work described in the replies you have
so
  > > far, I can help you.
  > >
  > > If you have the text already typed in, I will help you get the books
into
  > > your garage, under your OWN publishing company name. My company does not
  > > self publish books, but we do help self publishers get their book in
print.
  > >
 > You function as a book packager, which is a useful function. However
 > there are many such. What makes your offering attractive when compared
 > to the others? Price? Experience?
 >
 > BTW here is a list of packagers
 > I assembled.
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://frugalfun.com</font" target="_blank">http://frugalfun.com</font</a>>
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://writerscollective.com</font" target="_blank">http://writerscollective.com</font</a>>
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.bookwrights.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.bookwrights.com</font</a>>
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.cedarhousepublishers.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.cedarhousepublishers.com</font</a>>
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.eyelevelbooks.co.uk</font" target="_blank">http://www.eyelevelbooks.co.uk</font</a>>
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.glbpubs.com/ppsumm.html</font" target="_blank">http://www.glbpubs.com/ppsumm.html</font</a>>
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.karmichaelpress.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.karmichaelpress.com</font</a>>
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.silvercat.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.silvercat.com</font</a>>
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.writingandeditingatwork.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.writingandeditingatwork.com</font</a>>
 >
 > The orgiinal poster should check these folks out too.
 >
 > John Culleton<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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mgropen

External


Since: Jul 09, 2003
Posts: 31



(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2003 11:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Self Publishing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Context: D R Thompson offered to produce the book from your ms, allowing you
to self-publish without the production headaches.

John Culleton asked how he differed from other packagers and gave a list.

The reply included: << But the ones I've checked out aren't actually on your
list at all. Such as booksjustbooks and xlibris. >><BR><BR>

These two aren't packagers, they are subsidy publishers. If you go with them,
you **ARE NOT** self-publishing. They are the publisher. They own the ISBN,
which they bought from Bowker.

You can use a packager and still self-publish, if you are the original
purchaser of the ISBN(s) from Bowker.

Subsidy publishers, in general, are notorious for pricing their services in
such a way that you cannot profitably sell through bookstores while using them.
And, those who do go that route are stereotyped as not having had their ms
professionally edited and thus, producing works that aren't commercially viable
in any case.

Neither of those things are particulary true of packagers.

John was trying to find out how your services are different from those of your
competition, and was assuming that you belonged in the packager category rather
than in the subsidy publisher one.

I hope that this clarifies,


Marion Gropen
Gropen Associates, Inc.
consultant to small publishers on finance, accounting, and management
www.GropenAssoc.com
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drthompson

External


Since: Oct 01, 2003
Posts: 5



(Msg. 13) Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2003 2:51 am
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Marion,

Oh, ok. I see your distinction. In my mind, self publisher's are the one's
applying to dollars, regardless. Yes, you are right, the ones I listed are
"subsidy" or "vanity" presses

My company publishes children's books, and also does book packaging for
self-publishers. Clients own their own ISBN (and 9 others to use later, they
come in sets of 10), and they have their own publishing company name, logo,
web site, whatever they want. I will set up a simple web page for them
where they can sell on-line for almost nothing. I will tailor what I give
them to what they want, and I price it based on how much time I and my cover
designer, and book designer am going to spend on it.

So how am I different from other packagers? I don't know, I haven't
shopped the other guys to find out!
I simply offer the best deal I can, and if someone can beat it, they should
take it.


sample of client's web page we made for her (very basic, but also very
functional): <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.momsbookthing.com/spnsrs/ahwpubl.html" target="_blank">http://www.momsbookthing.com/spnsrs/ahwpubl.html</a>

"Marion Gropen" <mgropen.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030923165249.19414.00000101@mb-m02.aol.com...
 > Context: D R Thompson offered to produce the book from your ms, allowing
you
 > to self-publish without the production headaches.
 >
 > John Culleton asked how he differed from other packagers and gave a list.
 >
 > The reply included: << But the ones I've checked out aren't actually on
your
 > list at all. Such as booksjustbooks and xlibris. >><BR><BR>
 >
 > These two aren't packagers, they are subsidy publishers. If you go with
them,
 > you **ARE NOT** self-publishing. They are the publisher. They own the
ISBN,
 > which they bought from Bowker.
 >
 > You can use a packager and still self-publish, if you are the original
 > purchaser of the ISBN(s) from Bowker.
 >
 > Subsidy publishers, in general, are notorious for pricing their services
in
 > such a way that you cannot profitably sell through bookstores while using
them.
 > And, those who do go that route are stereotyped as not having had their
ms
 > professionally edited and thus, producing works that aren't commercially
viable
 > in any case.
 >
 > Neither of those things are particulary true of packagers.
 >
 > John was trying to find out how your services are different from those of
your
 > competition, and was assuming that you belonged in the packager category
rather
 > than in the subsidy publisher one.
 >
 > I hope that this clarifies,
 >
 >
 > Marion Gropen
 > Gropen Associates, Inc.
 > consultant to small publishers on finance, accounting, and management
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.GropenAssoc.com</font" target="_blank">www.GropenAssoc.com</font</a>>
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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mike19

External


Since: Oct 19, 2003
Posts: 2



(Msg. 14) Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 8:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Self Publishing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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For a UK view try:

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.publish-yourself.com" target="_blank">www.publish-yourself.com</a>

Cheers,
Mike Etherington
Effingpot Productions
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.effingpot.com" target="_blank">www.effingpot.com</a>
The Very Best of British
(The American's Guide to Speaking British)

"Pastor Maritn Wilson,I" <dtcmcw.TakeThisOut@charter.net> wrote in message
news:e564c7e8.0308261740.6ae9c2fd@posting.google.com...
 > I need some one to share with me the easiest and cost efficant way to
 > publish your first book.
 >
 > Pastor Martin Wilson, I
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.divinitytemple.net</font" target="_blank">www.divinitytemple.net</font</a>><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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user575

External


Since: Oct 13, 2003
Posts: 3



(Msg. 15) Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 4:22 pm
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That's some of the best advice I've seen anywhere.


On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:39:11 +0100, "Mike Etherington"
<mike DeleteThis @effingpot.com> wrote:

 >For a UK view try:
 >
 >www.publish-yourself.com
 >
 >Cheers,
 >Mike Etherington
 >Effingpot Productions
 >www.effingpot.com
 >The Very Best of British
 >(The American's Guide to Speaking British)
 >
 >"Pastor Maritn Wilson,I" <dtcmcw DeleteThis @charter.net> wrote in message
 >news:e564c7e8.0308261740.6ae9c2fd@posting.google.com...
  >> I need some one to share with me the easiest and cost efficant way to
  >> publish your first book.
  >>
  >> Pastor Martin Wilson, I
<font color=green>  >> <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.divinitytemple.net</font" target="_blank">www.divinitytemple.net</font</a>>
 >

--
Gordon Woolf
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.worsleypress.com" target="_blank">www.worsleypress.com</a>
New book: Success in Store -- How to Start or Buy
a Retail Business, Enjoy Running It and Make Money<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Self Publishing 
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